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Short Cycles?

Part of what got me going in the industry was the fact that i was the first person to have a published work on short cycles. (1997) Part of what I wrote was reiterated in that article.

Although I've lossened my stance somwhat and think that cycles can be pushed to 6 weeks with minimal supression I still maintain that cycles should never go over 8 weeks if you plan on having your HP TA return to normal. I don't push the assertion too hard on the board though because too many people are determined to go longer and many actually believe it takes several weeks for the drugs to "kick in." (Which is unequivically incorrect). Still, unless you plan on going on HR T within a few years, short cycles are the best.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Part of what got me going in the industry was the fact that i was the first person to have a published work on short cycles. (1997) Part of what I wrote was reiterated in that article.

Although I've lossened my stance somwhat and think that cycles can be pushed to 6 weeks with minimal supression I still maintain that cycles should never go over 8 weeks if you plan on having your HP TA return to normal. I don't push the assertion too hard on the board though because too many people are determined to go longer and many actually believe it takes several weeks for the drugs to "kick in." (Which is unequivically incorrect). Still, unless you plan on going on HR T within a few years, short cycles are the best.
Click to expand...


Can you tell me where to find your work on short cycles? I'm definitely interested in reading over it.

Thanks

[email protected]
 
I just did a 9 weeker with very good results. So yes, short cycles are fine.

I'm not so sure about a 6 weeker though. Just when you start loving it, you'll be done. Not cool.
 
needtogetaas said:
nice avi bro.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I thought it was an accurate representation of me right now :)

perry- really just looking for a way to keep the sides as low as possible and still get decent results. I'm willing to be patient and run multiple short cycles with smaller gains if it help my use remain anonymous. I'm from a fairly small area with a lot of nosey people.
 
No one else with an opinion? Maybe run test prop a 500mg for 6 weeks and dbol at 30mg for the first 4? They are both fast acting. Looking at the properties of both it seems like it would work.
 
I posted about short vs long esters... I was trying to get people going down the road of short cycles. I'm all for them... I think my next cycle will be test-prop and winn
 
i have ran winni and eq for 6 weeks and got great gains as well as prop and winni for 6 weeks. i really like short cycles, atleast they work for me.
 
Nelson, i read this
NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is Primobolan - methenolone - but he does like Sustanon, Dianabol - methandrostenolone - , Winstrol - stanozolol and anavar. He will not use or recommend vet steroids like Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - or trenbolone. He does not recommend nandrolone.

Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
His favorite combo's are Sustanon/Dianabol - methandrostenolone - or Primobolan - methenolone - /anavar.

Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.

WEEK ONE
DAY ONE Sustanon 250mg, day 3 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg, day 5 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg, day 7 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg. 25 of Dianabol - methandrostenolone - in divided doses per day.

WEEK TWO
Test testosterone cypionate or enanthate 100mg, day 10 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg and day 12 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg, day 14 Primobolan - methenolone - 100mg. 25 of Winstrol - stanozolol per day

WEEK THREE
day 16 Primobolan - methenolone - 100, day 18 Primobolan - methenolone - 100, day 20 Primobolan - methenolone - 100 and day 22 Primobolan - methenolone - 100 and also anavar 25 per day

Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker Primobolan - methenolone - . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization

WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.

Nelson does not believe that Clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.

The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.
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here
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Fo...4&perpage=SHORT CYCLES Explained&pagenumber=1


Are good this post about "your theory" ??
 
Nelson Montana said:
Part of what got me going in the industry was the fact that i was the first person to have a published work on short cycles. (1997) Part of what I wrote was reiterated in that article.

Although I've lossened my stance somwhat and think that cycles can be pushed to 6 weeks with minimal supression I still maintain that cycles should never go over 8 weeks if you plan on having your HP TA return to normal. I don't push the assertion too hard on the board though because too many people are determined to go longer and many actually believe it takes several weeks for the drugs to "kick in." (Which is unequivically incorrect). Still, unless you plan on going on HR T within a few years, short cycles are the best.
Click to expand...


I remember reading some stuff on short cycles about 10 years ago. Your stuff may have well been what I read. I remember in the article the author was in his 40's so it may have been you.

There is a whole school of thought on the short cycles. I have read about it, never done it, and I completely understand the principals. I think Nelson has many good points, and most people should probably consider following his advice.

I would say it depends on your personal goals. If you want to be huge, I just don't know if the short cycles would be the best route. If general fitness and health are your goals, I think you have to look at them seriously.

I don't think there's a wrong answer here, but one thing is for sure, the short cycles have less risk.

Good luck.
 
6 weeks of propio and winny is not what "short cycles" are about, thats a regular cycle, because you are using fast acting esteres, gains should be the same that a 8-10 sust cycle, but without the bloating... to be a "short cycle", it's has to be at much 4 weeks long....
 
Nelson Montana said:
Although I've loosened my stance somewhat and think that cycles can be pushed to 6 weeks with minimal suppression I still maintain that cycles should never go over 8 weeks if you plan on having your HP TA return to normal.
Click to expand...

What would a PCT protocol look like for one of these short cycles? I'm assuming it's less intense than one recommended for someone coming off 12 weeks of over a gram a week. Let's say instead you do 500mg test per week for 4 weeks. What then?

The goal here is to allow full recovery of your body's natural hormone function, right? I like that, and will gladly sacrifice gains in exchange for my health.
 
catulo said:
Nelson, i read this


here
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Fo...4&perpage=SHORT CYCLES Explained&pagenumber=1


Are good this post about "your theory" ??
Click to expand...

That was a very fined tuned cycle plan for someone looking to make the most KEEPABLE gains while running the SAFEST cycle. As mentioned, I think you can go longer as long as you take more time in-between cycles. Time off should be DOUBLE time on.

It's also a topic I tend to avoid but I think PC T is extremely over-rated. You can not abuse your HPTA for months and think just because you use a couple of compounds it'll be back to normal. There are things (natural and pharmaceutical) that can certainly cushion the crash but only time can restore the HP TA and the longer you're the harder it is to recover and the longer it'll take. Go on too soon and it becomes harder still. Do that enough and you'll never be the same. That's the cold hard truth.

My approach was always to use steroids as an adjunct to natural training. That's why short cycles work better. (And the quickness of the ester is not as much of a factor as you might think). But competition cycles are a different thing altogether. What I would advise to needsize or Quadsweep is not the same for some guy who looks like a tennis player and wants to put on more muscle. But some people don't differentiate that reality.
 
I prefer to use a lab and check to make sure my test levels are back to basline before I cycle again. I'd be afraid of only "4 weeks off".
 
so lets say i want to gain 15-17 pounds per year in qualitymass, whit good genetics.
would a longer cycle like 22-24 weeks be better than two 12 weeks cycles a year?
 
I do believe that you can achieve good gains with shorter cycles. I also believe that there is a certain age where long(er) cycles will not affect you the way that it would effect a 35-40+ year old. Obviously the younger you are the easier it will be to recover. I was on for 16 weeks with a 750mg ew test base and got two sets of blood work done and everthing was normal. I am 24 years old though. Longer cycles (if done correctly including p.ct of course) you will recover fine. Give your body enough time and it will recover naturally as well.
 
All good points, yes, age is a factor, but you still never know. What you can get away with once or twice may not happen the third time around.

Getting a blood test to assure levels are back to normal is an excellant idea. Even then, they should "stabilize" for a while.

marcu-s. Your question makes no sense. Have you been paying attention? And get that "17 pounds of lean mass a year" notion out of your head. It ain't gonna happen.
 
I do think short cycles work and definitely have advantages...but that being said, once you hit a certain peak in your potential, then you need to be on much longer to see changes...my own cycles have to be very long at this point, and I still have trouble making gains now...but for people closer to their natural genetic limit, I agree that they can definitely be effective
 
Nelson Montana said:
All good points, yes, age is a factor, but you still never know. What you can get away with once or twice may not happen the third time around.

Getting a blood test to assure levels are back to normal is an excellant idea. Even then, they should "stabilize" for a while.

marcu-s. Your question makes no sense. Have you been paying attention? And get that "17 pounds of lean mass a year" notion out of your head. It ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...

so what would be possible to achive on 2 12 weekers a year in musclemass? of course whit a good diet and training..........
havent done any aas in my life....still learning so im just wondering
 
Am I right in assuming that the main reason cycles become less effective the more we do them, is because our existing muscle cells can only grow so large? Thus the need to create MORE muscle cells, which steroids don't do, but things like human growth hormone - somatropin - and IGF can.

Or is there significant decline in androgen recepors over time because of gear?
 
Just wondering what your opinions on short cycles are. I like the prospect of decent gains with less sides.
Click to expand...

I am on all the time so I really can’t see doing short cycles,

Will do a basic cycle or something like a cycle for 12 weeks, then just do test, then a different cycle.


Over the years the only thing that has slowed me down is injury.
 
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