Short cycle lovers Vs. Long(10-12W)

[MrRTTB]

Was considering a short cycle starting in march. Goals would be to gain 10lb lbm and do only short acting esters for 2 weeks and keep bulking until the end of week 3. then do one moderate calorie week and then step on again. Now I would like to know what you think about either 1-3 short cycles, 2 weeks each to reach these goals or if a longer one would be better.

I hate(already lean so I rather not gain to much of it, but know it's also related to diet and carbs so I will keep carbs to moderate to low GI carbs) water and I think I will need 50mg proviron to this cycle, already will run 20mg nolvadex ED.

Goals would be a 10-15lbm gain and stay at the same bf(6%) or a slight increase(would matter If I went up 1.5-2%bf)

The alternatives would be:

Alt 1(1-3 of this cycle): 2 weeks
Day 1: 300mg Test Prop
Day 2-11: 100mg Test prop
Day 1: 150mg Tren
Day 2-11: 75mg Tren ED
Day 1-12: Winny 50mg ED
Day 1-14: Nolvadex 20mg ED
Days 15 or 16: Nolvadex 60mg then 40mg 3 days and then 20mg for 2 weeks(instead of clomid)


Alt 2:
Weeks 1-10: 200mg EQ once per week(cant get more..no MONEY.. )
Weeks 1-9: 100mg EOD of Test Prop, or if I choose not to use dbol, then 150mg EOD
Weeks: 4-9: Tren 100mg EOD
Weeks 1-12: Proviron 25mg ED with Nolvadex 20mg ED
Weeks 7-10: Winny 50mg ED
Bromo 2.5mg ED with the tren and 1 week or 2 post

Most of you would probably pick cycle alt 2, but with the goals I have would it be possible to reach it with alt 1? Protein 2.5g/lb bodyweight. I might consider alt 1 for 2 weeks then 2 weeks off and if I didn't like it I might do alt 2 starting april 1..
I like the idea of not being on for such a long time, but then again muscle takes a long time to gain(even with steroids) so maybe alt 2 would be better..

 

[lawnsaver]

I think long, moderately dosed cycles work the best! Its just my opinion, but the longer you keep your size the less likely your body will reject it!

 

[ripper2]

i'd go with #2 handsdown

 

[LIBeef]

I would go with 2 but take out the eq, at that dose I don't think it would do much for ya. Get some more test instead.

 

[MikeyG]

I'm with lawnsaver on this one-- but in this case, I'd go with Alternate #2, because It has been said to be a great cycle, Tren/Winny/Prop .....very good for gaining some mass with little or no bodyfat. However MOST people run it for 6 weeks MIN!

I really think you won't get much out of 2 weekers---- but I may be wrong, I'd like to know as well. go for it and let us know.

 

[MrRTTB]

I also would like to know how a 2 weeker would be. I've looked around and can't find eq to a good price, rather do low dose of it then and spend the money on some proviron. If I choose alt Nr 2 I will also run 25mg proviron/20mg nolvadex to hold estrogen fat and water away as much as possible. I know it would be better with arimidex, but I already have enough nolvadex and I can get my hands on proviron to a nice, very nice price.

 

[Mr.superior toughguy]

Re: WHO ALL HAS NAMES FOR VARIOUS PEOPLE AT THEIR GYM?

at my gym we have a few names we like to throw around.

billy the big bad stinky bear-always wears a bear suit to the gym,never takes it off, smells rancid, he must realy work up a sweat wearing that big furry suit, and fills the gym with the overwhelmingly bad a kind of swampy sewage odor.but he's a pretty nice guy.

weedy-this guy looks like a twig he must be bout 300 lbs hahah , 5'11'.. the little weakling,bet he'd break in half if he tried to bench anything over 200 lbs. what a joke.

nigger joe- the gyms black dude.dnt know his real name so i just call him nigger joe, or just joe if he's within audible distance.

cupcake- once i spotted him eating a cupcake while he was doing some leg curls,thats where the name cup cake comes from.

spreader - gay dude wears tight spandex shorts exentuating his rather well-shaped sexy buttocks, likes to spread his ass cheeks apart whenever i happen to be looking in his direction. i think he's taken a liking to me.

we've got a few more but those are the cream of the crop.

jj

 

[Jae]

I have a problem with 10-12 weeks being defined as LONG. That sounds like a short cycle to me.

 

[RoNiN]

12 weeks is a long cycle to you???? hahahhahaa....try a 20 week cycle....that is when it STARTS to get long.


Definately #2..... as i have always said short cycles may be safer but there is no way you can get big keepable gains off this short cycle shit.

I have tried short cycles....the are not very effective...

 

[The_Eviscerator]

12 weeks is a long cycle to you???? hahahhahaa....try a 20 week cycle....that is when it STARTS to get long.


Definately #2..... as i have always said short cycles may be safer but there is no way you can get big keepable gains off this short cycle shit.

I have tried short cycles....the are not very effective...

In some ways I agree with you... but the whole point of short cycles is not to just do 2-4 weeks and stay off for 3 months. It is a 2 week on, 4 week off type protocol. I have always noticed that the majority of my gains in a cycle come in the first 3-4 weeks. By week 5 they are about done. After that, it seems I would have to double the gear to get the response. I think if you are willing to make 2-4 week cycles a year round commitment, you may see better more keepabale gains in the long run.

 

[MrRTTB]

Hmm...maybe it has to the fact that people forget that they should increase calories as they gain. I think a long cycle would work a lot better if people just upped on the calories, mostly from protein as gains are slowing down...
I will follow a 12 ay bulk/ 12 day cut while on. Not the "classic" abcde diet but a diet where I bulk +1500cals for 12 days with no cardio and maybe -300 or -400cals per day from my maintenance calorie take(the gear will probably help me with the fat so that is why I wont decrease cals so much) during the 12 day cut. I've tried it before both on and off and like it a lot. It allows one to gain muscle while droppimng fat and then gain even more with very little fat during the bulk days. If I pick the long cycle(probably will) I will go with proviron at 25-50mg ED with 20mg Nolvadex instead of arimidex. I will also add extra zink, and get some dandelion root and uva ursi if I start to gain to much water with the bulk days.

 

[Triple J]

I think the effectiveness of short cycles may depend on your start point. If you have been clean for a while and/or perhaps under you potential I think the short cycles can get the job done.

I would start off with the short cycle approach to bring you up to par and see how far it takes you, then possibly be prepared to get on a longer cycle to complete your goals in your timeframe of 3-4 months.

As far as you short cycle approach goes I would want to mix it up a little and not run the same thing for each go.

 

[gapster2000]

In My opinion, I would go on a cycle for 24 weeks using a good ammount of test and then coming off with 8 weeks of clenbuterol, nolvadex and clomid

 

[Nelson Montana]

Two weeks is too short to get much growth. I believe three week cycles provide the most benefit with very little supression.

Don't use Nolva to combat water. It works against your goals.

You most probably will not keep 10 pounds on 3 week cycle, but you can keep 5. Not enough? I think it's better than gaining 25 and losing 20.

If you're going to stay on for more than 20 weeks, you might as well not come off. That's not a cycle. That's dependancy.

 

[MrRTTB]

I wont do a 20 weeker, either a 10-10 weeker or a 2 weeker, or both

I have to deside first what to go with, might be a better idea to gain more slowly and make the cycle a little longer than 2 weeks.

Look at the Alt 2 cycle and please tell me if I should run some low dose dbol first 3-4 weeks?

 

[SofaGeorge]

I stay on until I hear the voices of angels.

 

[Machiavellian Muscle]

Depends on the substance used. In general I would say a longer cycle works best. If you are using eq for instance it takes a good for weeks to kick in so you should running it longer. If you were to add winny to this cycle I would not run it the full duration of 10-12 weeks, but only 4 weeks. So it depends on the substance and how harsh it is on your body and how quickly it kicks in...

 

[RoNiN]

Mackavelli . Nelson Montana . gapster2000 i think are on the right track with SofaGeorge being the most extreme ( haha ).

Even when usiong fast acting AS like prop , winny and tren i highly doubt you will FULLY recover from all of that in 2 weeks. Read some of the posts on this board of post-cycle recovery experinces on tren....some of these guys are off for 2 months and are still recovering.

Two weeks is just not enough time with test and tren to be in that "fresh" state that you are seeking in this 2 week on / 2 week off method. Maybe winstrol is the exception but if you are taking things that will take a long time to recover then why in the world don't you keep constant blood levels of androgens to maximize your gains?

I'm telling you know what will happen.... the first two weeks you make great gains....the 2 weeks off everything seems ok....then you will notice when you go back on that you aren't as recovered as you were when you started and you will pound yourself again...you will come off again and you will be even more shut down.....this is going to turn into a downward spiral of diminishing gains and increasing side effects.

Just letting you know dude , I already learned my lesson , just trying to let other's avoid the mistakes i made.

 

[Stillgoing]

Re: Re: WHO ALL HAS NAMES FOR VARIOUS PEOPLE AT THEIR GYM?

at my gym we have a few names we like to throw around.

billy the big bad stinky bear-always wears a bear suit to the gym,never takes it off, smells rancid, he must realy work up a sweat wearing that big furry suit, and fills the gym with the overwhelmingly bad a kind of swampy sewage odor.but he's a pretty nice guy.

weedy-this guy looks like a twig he must be bout 300 lbs hahah , 5'11'.. the little weakling,bet he'd break in half if he tried to bench anything over 200 lbs. what a joke.

nigger joe- the gyms black dude.dnt know his real name so i just call him nigger joe, or just joe if he's within audible distance.

cupcake- once i spotted him eating a cupcake while he was doing some leg curls,thats where the name cup cake comes from.

spreader - gay dude wears tight spandex shorts exentuating his rather well-shaped sexy buttocks, likes to spread his ass cheeks apart whenever i happen to be looking in his direction. i think he's taken a liking to me.

we've got a few more but those are the cream of the crop.

jj

Not a good first post chief. 1- completely off-topic, and 2- racial slurs are not welcome. We have some good bros of color here.
Try again, or, how about don't.