Sheehan Arrested During White House Protest

[DJ_UFO]

Sheehan Arrested During White House Protest
Monday, September 26, 2005

WASHINGTON — Cindy Sheehan (search), the California woman who became a leader of the anti-war movement following her son's death in Iraq, was arrested Monday along with dozens of others protesting outside the White House.

Sheehan, carrying a photo of her son in his Army uniform, was among hundreds of protesters who marched around the White House and then down the two-block pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. When they reached the front of the White House, dozens sat down -- knowing they would be arrested -- and began singing and chanting "Stop the war now!"

Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests. One man climbed over the White House fence and was quickly subdued by Secret Service agents.

Sheehan, 48, was the first taken into custody. She smiled as she was carried to the curb, then stood up and walked to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

About 50 people were arrested in the first hour, with dozens of others waiting to be taken away. All cooperated with police.

Sheehan was among several hundred demonstrators who marched around the White House on Monday and then stopped in front and began singing and chanting "Stop the war now!"

The demonstration is part of a broader anti-war effort on Capitol Hill organized by United for Peace and Justice, an umbrella group. Representatives from anti-war groups were meeting Monday with members of Congress to urge them to work to end the war and bring home the troops.

The protest following a massive demonstration Saturday on the National Mall that drew a crowd of 100,000 or more, the largest such gathering in the capital since the war began in March 2003.

On Sunday, a rally supporting the war drew roughly 500 participants. Speakers included veterans of World War II and the war in Iraq, as well as family members of soldiers killed in Iraq.

"I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters don't be a group of unthinking lemmings. It's not pretty," said Mitzy Kenny (search) of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations "can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170427,00.html

 

[Lestat]

sad

 

[chefbone]

Put her in Abu Garib

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Good for her, and Fuck Bush while im at it.

 

[silverfish]

She's a common criminal. Off with her head!

 

[Gambino]

sad

fuck this attention whore lestat...if you feel sad for her feel sympathy for her dead son, not the fact that she got arrested for plubicity

 

[_Yossarian_]

look at the smile on that stupid bitch's face.

Guess she's done greiving for her son, just there for fun and games now. F*cking attention whore.

 

[Spartacus]

"To be against war and militarism, in the tradition of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, is one thing. But to have a record of consistent support for war and militarism, from the Red Army in Eastern Europe to the Serbian ethnic cleansers and the Taliban, is quite another. It is really a disgrace that the liberal press refers to such enemies of liberalism as "antiwar" when in reality they are straight-out pro-war, but on the other side. Was there a single placard saying, "No to Jihad"? Of course not. Or a single placard saying, "Yes to Kurdish self-determination" or "We support Afghan women's struggle"? Don't make me laugh. And this in a week when Afghans went back to the polls, and when Iraqis were preparing to do so, under a hail of fire from those who blow up mosques and U.N. buildings, behead aid workers and journalists, proclaim fatwahs against the wrong kind of Muslim, and utter hysterical diatribes against Jews and Hindus. "

http://slate.msn.com/id/2126913/

 

[DJ_UFO]

She only wants money. I bet if the governement gives her 10 million bucks, we'll never hear of this bitch again. But that will not happen. She doesn't deserve a penny. Not even deserve to be mother of one of our brave fallen soldiers.

 

[Raptorex]

poor woman, I believe she has lost her mind.

 

[Cutiebaby]

shouldnt she be grieving her son?????
when you join the service you know the risks did this woman not know the risks??? give me a friggin break.........

 

[DJ_UFO]

poor woman, I believe she has lost her mind.

Probably yeah. Only garbage comes out of her mouth but beyond that, maybe she has some issues inside and is not guilty of the atrocities she's saying.

 

[Raptorex]

Probably yeah. Only garbage comes out of her mouth but beyond that, maybe she has some issues inside and is not guilty of the atrocities she's saying.

It's easy to manipulate a crazy person.

 

[AAP]

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war, you might be upset too.

Last time I heard, joining the military was about serving OUR country and protecting OUR country. Being in Iraq served us how? What did we gain? Being in Iraq protected us how? From cheap gasoline prices? Wow.

Since chicken shit bush wouldn't come down the road from his ranch to meet her, maybe he will do it in DC. Which I highly doubt as the man is the biggest coward that has ever been elected to any kind of office.

 

[ziggyziggy]

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war, you might be upset too.

Last time I heard, joining the military was about serving OUR country and protecting OUR country. Being in Iraq served us how? What did we gain? Being in Iraq protected us how? From cheap gasoline prices? Wow.

Since chicken shit bush wouldn't come down the road from his ranch to meet her, maybe he will do it in DC. Which I highly doubt as the man is the biggest coward that has ever been elected to any kind of office.

And Clinton was what?

Cindy Sheehan is a media whore, who's 15 minutes died out long ago. At first I had some sympathy for her, but as she continued to play out in thr media, I realised that it isn't about her son, its about her. She was able to, for her 15 minutes, rub elbows with the hard core, leftie elite ... the celebrities.

Now that her 15 minuted are up, she is resorting to more and more desperate measures to stay in the limelight, and get the attention that she so gleefully wants. She is a media whore. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Her son is probably rolling in his grave now, thinking, "Mom, please STFU!" He knew of his mother's political leanings prior to joining the military. He did so anyway. That should tell you that he did not subscribe to her leftist point of view. Why do you think that Cindy Sheehan's extended family is disowning her as we speak? I'll give you a hint, it isn't because of Bush.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who was wounded in Afghanistan as an active duty military person. Then again as a civialian contractor in Iraq. I would gladly lay my life down to promote democracy anywhere in the world. I imagine that Casey Sheehan, knowing his mother's political leanings, and who joined the military anyway, felt a similar way.

Zig

 

[bluepeter]

lol, same old shit.

 

[Spartacus]

she was Cat 2 at best

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war, you might be upset too.

Sure, but he was no conscript, he volunteered and knew the risks. So did I, so did everyone who has served in Iraq. There is no draft. No one is snatched away from their family.

Last time I heard, joining the military was about serving OUR country and protecting OUR country. Being in Iraq served us how? What did we gain? Being in Iraq protected us how? From cheap gasoline prices? Wow.

The decision is not a soldier's to make. The oath of enlistment includes "Obey the officers appointed over me". If you want to debate foreign policy and consider nonintervention, that's another issue, but it seems to be beyonf the purview of this thread.

We have not had a "declared war" since World War 2.

Since chicken shit bush wouldn't come down the road from his ranch to meet her, maybe he will do it in DC. Which I highly doubt as the man is the biggest coward that has ever been elected to any kind of office.

Bush already met with her over a year ago, at which time she expressed appreciation for his time and said that she could tell he feels pain for those who have lost loved ones.

 

[AAP]

Sure, but he was no conscript, he volunteered and knew the risks. So did I, so did everyone who has served in Iraq. There is no draft. No one is snatched away from their family.

You do not enter into the military to serve in Iraq. You enter into it to serve our country. Is Iraq our country? Is it our newest state? And just HOW is OUR country being served by a war with Iraq? Serving our country in Iraq brings us gains HOW?



The decision is not a soldier's to make.

To start a useless war, no that was not a soldiers to make. That was our Presidents and he lied to us all with his own personal agenda. And continued to lie about it the entire time it was underway.

The oath of enlistment includes "Obey the officers appointed over me".

And one hopes that the officer appointed over you would have some fucking common sense. Yet when idiocy trickles down from the highest office in the country, our Commander in Chief, that sort of removes any say so logical people would have about it. So again, placing the blame of the soldiers death on them for enlisting isn't going to cut it.

If you want to debate foreign policy and consider nonintervention, that's another issue, but it seems to be beyonf the purview of this thread.

We have not had a "declared war" since World War 2.

Are you saying that bombing a country, sending in troops to fight and die, destroying another countries military equipment, taking their leader into custody and creating a completely new government isn't a part of war? What is it called? Practice?


Bush already met with her over a year ago, at which time she expressed appreciation for his time and said that she could tell he feels pain for those who have lost loved ones.

A year ago. Back when she was probably still believing the Administration's spin on the reasons we went over there. And if he met with her back then, what is 5 more mins of his time now? Why is he avoiding her now? Because she doesn't have the blinders on? Or because it interfers with his vacation time?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

You do not enter into the military to serve in Iraq. You enter into it to serve our country. Is Iraq our country? Is it our newest state? And just HOW is OUR country being served by a war with Iraq? Serving our country in Iraq brings us gains HOW?

I knew I might get shot at. Whether it was by iraqi's, turks, mexicans, etc. does not really matter.

You are acting as if this is a soldier's decision. Soldiers are owned by the state, which does what it wants with them. You're intertwining the role of the statesman with that of the soldier to suit your anti-war agenda.

It doesn't work like that. You can't make up your own context and then justify your argument inside of it.

To start a useless war, no that was not a soldiers to make. That was our Presidents and he lied to us all with his own personal agenda. And continued to lie about it the entire time it was underway.

Be that as it may, that has nothing to do with what a soldier decides.

And one hopes that the officer appointed over you would have some fucking common sense. Yet when idiocy trickles down from the highest office in the country, our Commander in Chief, that sort of removes any say so logical people would have about it. So again, placing the blame of the soldiers death on them for enlisting isn't going to cut it.

I'm not blaming the kid for his own death. But you and I decide to work in an office, where the likelihood of getting shot is low. He picked the Armed Forces, where the risk is a little higher.

Are you saying that bombing a country, sending in troops to fight and die, destroying another countries military equipment, taking their leader into custody and creating a completely new government isn't a part of war? What is it called? Practice?

Nah it's war, I never debated this with you, I just pointed out that there was no declaration...which actually strengthens your argument. I'm just looking for facts and understanding here.

A year ago. Back when she was probably still believing the Administration's spin on the reasons we went over there. And if he met with her back then, what is 5 more mins of his time now? Why is he avoiding her now? Because she doesn't have the blinders on? Or because it interfers with his vacation time?

What changed in a year?

Same president?

same war?

son still dead?

Do you expect the President to meet with her again because "she changed her mind"?

 

[75th]

A year ago. Back when she was probably still believing the Administration's spin on the reasons we went over there. And if he met with her back then, what is 5 more mins of his time now? Why is he avoiding her now? Because she doesn't have the blinders on? Or because it interfers with his vacation time?

Bush cant be expected to set aside time to meet with each and every parent who has lost a child in the war individually more than once.

Geez, you guys give him enough flak whenever he travels outside of D.C.

And if you only want him to meet with her, why not a parent who is pro-war? Or is their heartbreak not as important?

And her son didnt only volunteer in the army...he did it twice, the second time after he had returned from Iraq. Apparently he believed in what he was doing. His mom is only looking out for herself and it's really sad that the far-left has turned her into such a media whore. I wasnt surprised when she signed an apparently large figure deal to give far-left speeches all around the country over the next 2 years.

 

[jackangel]

protestors doing their thing. guards and agents doing theirs. not much to see.

if she thinks, however, that security personnel actually look bad for doing their jobs, then she's wrong.

 

[AAP]

I knew I might get shot at. Whether it was by iraqi's, turks, mexicans, etc. does not really matter.

Everyone might get shot at. That is no denying that. But let's be real about why our soldiers are dying. Proclaiming they are protecting OUR rights and freedom is a complete lie. That statement justifies nothing. Nor does it even offer a comprehensible explanation for why our country has troops there. We have gained not a single thing from this conflict. Name one thing that has benefit the U.S. from having our troops over there.

You are acting as if this is a soldier's decision. Soldiers are owned by the state, which does what it wants with them. You're intertwining the role of the statesman with that of the soldier to suit your anti-war agenda.

Irrelevant statement as you didn't read my response to your previous reply/statement. A soldier's job is not to be owned by the state, but as you say to obey their superiors. I don't see troops obeying Jeb Bush and he is the govnr' of our state. I don't see states having the right to commit or not commit their troops if they truly do own them. Hey, Kentucky told it's boys to come home, you think they would let them? So actually, the states really have no power on where, when or why our troops are displaced. If that were the case Florida would just send "it's" troop to Cuba to confiscate all their damn plywood so they couldn't build shitty escape boats.

It doesn't work like that. You can't make up your own context and then justify your argument inside of it.

You did. Going from a person's decision to enlist to being state property. Military is nothing more than a modern day indentured servitude program. Just like indentured servants, you volunteer for the position all the while hoping you get a master that actually has brains above his shoulders.

Be that as it may, that has nothing to do with what a soldier decides.

Again, you are failing to see the simple truth here. This is NOT a soldiers war. No soldier decided to fight this war. Our stupid President did. He decided and lied about going there for his own agenda. Again, what has anyone - citizens or soldiers - gained from this conflict? If you would like to use the issue of what a soldier decides then give them the choice of coming home right now or not and see exactly what the decisions are. But since they don't have that choice, you hold the man who does responsible for the shit fest he stuck them in, in the first place.

I'm not blaming the kid for his own death. But you and I decide to work in an office, where the likelihood of getting shot is low. He picked the Armed Forces, where the risk is a little higher.

Did he serve his country? You bet he did. Did his country serve him? Debateable under the current administration. How you can believe the administration is supporting our troops is beyond me, especially in the face that none of the administration's own children have enlisted. Every single solider in our armed forces has served this country without question. Dying on Iraqi sand for what? Certainly not our rights, freedom or gains. Calling anti-war protesters unAmericans like so many have done is nothing more than a complete show of unintelligence. Serve our country. Protect our country. I don't see hordes of Iraqi's invading us. So how are we threatened? What were they going to do? Make our gas expensive? Win more gold medals in the Olympics to sell and fund their own Star Wars program? Impose trade sanctions on us? Truth is, that country was never a threat or nuisance to us. Not a single U.S. soldier died by Iraqi conflict BEFORE we entered that country under hostile intentions.

Nah it's war, I never debated this with you, I just pointed out that there was no declaration...which actually strengthens your argument. I'm just looking for facts and understanding here.




What changed in a year?

Same president?

same war?

son still dead?

Do you expect the President to meet with her again because "she changed her mind"?

Not because she changed her mind, but because the previous reasons he gave her for her son being over there have come to be nothing more than lies and deception for his own personal vendetta. He invalidated his own crediblity and she, like many Americans feel like they were lied to, which they were. She simply wants to hear the truth she already knows from his own lips. She wants to know WHY her son was sent there. WHY other peoples sons and daughters are sent there. And it is not because they enlisted. She wants to know WHY the U.S. is involved in this conflict and have not gained a single thing from it. Rights? No. Freedom? No. WMD? Hell no. We set out for the Middle East to capture Bin Laden who was still at large and still responsible for U.S. deaths. And that was ignored for what? To enter Iraq why? She isn't the only one expecting answers from such a cowardly president.

 

[AAP]

#1 Bush cant be expected to set aside time to meet with each and every parent who has lost a child in the war individually more than once.

#2 And if you only want him to meet with her, why not a parent who is pro-war? Or is their heartbreak not as important?

#1 Not everyone, but a lady who is across the road from his property? Oh bushie can't spare 5 mins to walk across the road?

#2 I am sure he does. And asks for more money. Or their next born child.

 

[DJ_UFO]

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war, you might be upset too.

Last time I heard, joining the military was about serving OUR country and protecting OUR country. Being in Iraq served us how? What did we gain? Being in Iraq protected us how? From cheap gasoline prices? Wow.

Since chicken shit bush wouldn't come down the road from his ranch to meet her, maybe he will do it in DC. Which I highly doubt as the man is the biggest coward that has ever been elected to any kind of office.

And what about those thousands of Iraqui terrorists we've killed during this war? They are guerrilla, terrorists from Al-Qaeda. Without this war, they would be there anyway. Regardless if they are from Iraq, Iran, Syria or whatever. I prefer to invest some billions and clean my way to the future, instead of planning blind of the atrocities some thousands of crazy ass dudes are trying to do on America. So far with President Bush, terrorism in America was stopped radically. We are safer than ever. All the holy war and the shit planned by terrorists was fucked thanks to President Bush. All the terrorists planned inside our nation while Clinton was gettin a blowjob, was fucked by President Bush. Have you forgotten when those towers fell? What about fellow Americans falling from the towers windows? What about people burned by terrorists inside America? Don't you think our first heroes on flight 93 deserve to be honored? This is justice. Our justice. They shot first, now is our turn. And we decide when to stop. They messed with the wrong country. Definitely. I hope their kids are raised in the future knowing that. For their own prosperity.

 

[75th]

#1 Not everyone, but a lady who is across the road from his property? Oh bushie can't spare 5 mins to walk across the road?

#2 I am sure he does. And asks for more money. Or their next born child.

#1: Then you have every grieving mother showing up at the white house who has nothing better to do and who is being fully funded by the democratic party.

#2: Indeed.

 

[AAP]

And what about those thousands of Iraqui terrorists we've killed during this war? They are guerrilla, terrorists from Al-Qaeda. Without this war, they would be there anyway. Regardless if they are from Iraq, Iran, Syria or whatever. I prefer to invest some billions and clean my way to the future, instead of planning blind of the atrocities some thousands of crazy ass dudes are trying to do on America. So far with President Bush, terrorism in America was stopped radically. We are safer than ever. All the holy war and the shit planned by terrorists was fucked thanks to President Bush. All the terrorists planned inside our nation while Clinton was gettin a blowjob, was fucked by President Bush. Have you forgotten when those towers fell? What about fellow Americans falling from the towers windows? What about people burned by terrorists inside America? Don't you think our first heroes on flight 93 deserve to be honored? This is justice. Our justice. They shot first, now is our turn. And we decide when to stop. They messed with the wrong country. Definitely. I hope their kids are raised in the future knowing that. For their own prosperity.

*yawn*

Clinton? Remember when the towers fell? Bush's term. When he had intel prior that something along those lines was being planned. Can't ignore the fact he had info and didn't act upon it. People being burned, same scenario, same president, same term.

I am all for going after the terrorists. Let's go get 'em. Let's kill 'em all. How many Iraqi terrorists hijacked those planes? Hmmmm? How many of those terrorists were Iraqis? Gee, come to think about it, the man who personally claimed responsibility for all this is still at large. Or has Osama secretly been captured?

Those Iraqis we have killed? How many of them was killed during the Invasion of America? One? Two? None? Last time I checked, they were killed on their own soil. Which they were defending for whatever reason you may or may not can comprehend. What you think they were going to let invaders run in shooting and not return fire?

Bush ruining terrorist plans inside America. Maybe you can refresh my memory. I haven't heard of any terrorist - Iraqi or otherwise - being caught in America. Link? Hell even the sill shoe bomber was caught by another country.

Nice Hoo-ray bravado. But completely irrelevent. Post again when you have a better arguement to contribute.

 

[AAP]

#1: Then you have every grieving mother showing up at the white house who has nothing better to do and who is being fully funded by the democratic party.

But she wasn't at the White House. But his ranch. You know where he spends MOST of his time. After all, the Presidency is just a part time job for him if you go by how many vacations he takes.

 

[75th]

But she wasn't at the White House. But his ranch. You know where he spends MOST of his time. After all, the Presidency is just a part time job for him if you go by how many vacations he takes.

Your smart enough to know that the man works 24/7...its not like he can only run the country from one specific location on Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[75th]

Bush ruining terrorist plans inside America. Maybe you can refresh my memory. I haven't heard of any terrorist - Iraqi or otherwise - being caught in America. Link? Hell even the sill shoe bomber was caught by another country.

There have been lots. Lots and lots. Its just that the US media doesnt seem fir to place these numerous stories on the front page.

Besides, chances are most people wont believe we caught so-and-so who was planning such-and-such while Bush is in office. Their political hatred blinds them of any common sense.

 

[AAP]

If they were caught, it would be published. If not, then how exactly do YOU know they were caught in the first place? Someone whispering in your ear while you sleep at night?

If they were caught you can rest assured that Karl Rove would have it plastered all over the media right away. Bill OReilly would certainly harp about it every chance he got.

The fact of the matter is, it never happened. That is why no one has heard about it.

 

[AAP]

Your smart enough to know that the man works 24/7...its not like he can only run the country from one specific location on Pennsylvania Ave.

24/7? The man who has taken more vacation leave than any other President in history. Indisputeable fact there.

 

[Spartacus]

And Clinton was what?

Cindy Sheehan is a media whore, who's 15 minutes died out long ago. At first I had some sympathy for her, but as she continued to play out in thr media, I realised that it isn't about her son, its about her. She was able to, for her 15 minutes, rub elbows with the hard core, leftie elite ... the celebrities.

Now that her 15 minuted are up, she is resorting to more and more desperate measures to stay in the limelight, and get the attention that she so gleefully wants. She is a media whore. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Her son is probably rolling in his grave now, thinking, "Mom, please STFU!" He knew of his mother's political leanings prior to joining the military. He did so anyway. That should tell you that he did not subscribe to her leftist point of view. Why do you think that Cindy Sheehan's extended family is disowning her as we speak? I'll give you a hint, it isn't because of Bush.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who was wounded in Afghanistan as an active duty military person. Then again as a civialian contractor in Iraq. I would gladly lay my life down to promote democracy anywhere in the world. I imagine that Casey Sheehan, knowing his mother's political leanings, and who joined the military anyway, felt a similar way.

Zig

this bears repeating in black and white

 

[75th]

If they were caught, it would be published. If not, then how exactly do YOU know they were caught in the first place? Someone whispering in your ear while you sleep at night?

If they were caught you can rest assured that Karl Rove would have it plastered all over the media right away. Bill OReilly would certainly harp about it every chance he got.

The fact of the matter is, it never happened. That is why no one has heard about it.

It...or they...have been published over and over in many different publications and news outlets: AP, BBC, Fox, Cnn, etc.

Do a google or (better yet) LexisNexis search and see for yourself.

 

[AAP]

It being completely irrelevent bears repeating as well.

 

[75th]

24/7? The man who has taken more vacation leave than any other President in history. Indisputeable fact there.

"Vacation" meaning flying outside of DC.

Doesnt mean the country comes to a halt.

Besides, the presidency is bigger than one man.

 

[75th]

It...or they...have been published over and over in many different publications and news outlets: AP, BBC, Fox, Cnn, etc.

Do a google or (better yet) LexisNexis search and see for yourself.

Oh, and there have been segments on O'Reilly dedicated to this as well.

 

[Spartacus]

I knew I might get shot at. Whether it was by iraqi's, turks, mexicans, etc. does not really matter.

Everyone might get shot at. That is no denying that. But let's be real about why our soldiers are dying. Proclaiming they are protecting OUR rights and freedom is a complete lie. That statement justifies nothing. Nor does it even offer a comprehensible explanation for why our country has troops there. We have gained not a single thing from this conflict. Name one thing that has benefit the U.S. from having our troops over there.






[/B]

On the twenty-sixth of June SS Pionier Pelzmann of the 12. SS Panzerpionierbataillon's fourth company is positioned under a small tree, he is a forward observer. He has dug a hole and then placed a big piece of armour from a Pzkpfw. IV and grass on top of it. The only opening is a small observation slit facing the enemy. It's impossible to discover him. From the observation slit he has shot a large number of British soldiers when he finally runs out of ammunition. He steps out of his dugout, grabs his sniper rifle and smashes it to the tree. He throws the rifle away and shout "So, I don't have any ammo left, finished enough of you- you can shot me now!". A big red haired Englishman then steps forward, grab Pelzmann's arm, places his revolver against his head and fires. Pelzmann falls dead to the ground. Oberscharführer Ernst Behrens, who together with a handful of other prisoners have witnessed the incident, is told to gather all the dead soldiers and concentrate them at a certain spot. When he comes to Pelzmann he counts about thirty dead Englishmen in front of Pelzmann's dugout.



this isn't even a fuckin "war" your're bitching about

 

[AAP]

It...or they...have been published over and over in many different publications and news outlets: AP, BBC, Fox, Cnn, etc.

Do a google or (better yet) LexisNexis search and see for yourself.

Post a link to these terrorist activities INSIDE the U.S. that Bush and Co. stopped. It is your arguement, provide the results.

 

[AAP]

On the twenty-sixth of June SS Pionier Pelzmann of the 12. SS Panzerpionierbataillon's fourth company is positioned under a small tree, he is a forward observer. He has dug a hole and then placed a big piece of armour from a Pzkpfw. IV and grass on top of it. The only opening is a small observation slit facing the enemy. It's impossible to discover him. From the observation slit he has shot a large number of British soldiers when he finally runs out of ammunition. He steps out of his dugout, grabs his sniper rifle and smashes it to the tree. He throws the rifle away and shout "So, I don't have any ammo left, finished enough of you- you can shot me now!". A big red haired Englishman then steps forward, grab Pelzmann's arm, places his revolver against his head and fires. Pelzmann falls dead to the ground. Oberscharführer Ernst Behrens, who together with a handful of other prisoners have witnessed the incident, is told to gather all the dead soldiers and concentrate them at a certain spot. When he comes to Pelzmann he counts about thirty dead Englishmen in front of Pelzmann's dugout.



this isn't even a fuckin "war" your're bitching about

There is now SS in Iraq? News to me. Or are you just posting irrelevent statements again. And this incident from another war in another time does WHAT to support your laughable contributions to this thread?

 

[AAP]

Besides, the presidency is bigger than one man.

Don't worry, there is enough blame to go around.

 

[75th]

Post a link to these terrorist activities INSIDE the U.S. that Bush and Co. stopped. It is your arguement, provide the results.

Well, here's the most recent:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/23/terrorism.probe.ap/

 

[Spartacus]

If they were caught, it would be published. If not, then how exactly do YOU know they were caught in the first place? Someone whispering in your ear while you sleep at night?

If they were caught you can rest assured that Karl Rove would have it plastered all over the media right away. Bill OReilly would certainly harp about it every chance he got.

The fact of the matter is, it never happened. That is why no one has heard about it.

this from the guy who didn't even know who Terry McAuliffe was deep into last year's election
probably still doesn't

 

[AAP]

this isn't even a fuckin "war" your're bitching about

WWII wasn't a war? Perhaps you should consult the 10th grade history book.

Next year when you reach that grade.

 

[AAP]

this from the guy who didn't even know who Terry McAuliffe was deep into last year's election
probably still doesn't

Prior statements from a guy who didn't know WWII was a war? Probably still doesn't since he is applying 1944 German Snipers to the Iraqi conflict.

 

[javaguru]

I was going to try and explain the military and why soldiers do what they do but it's pointless. Unless you've been there, war in particular, you'll never understand.

 

[AAP]

I was going to try and explain the military and why soldiers do what they do but it's pointless. Unless you've been there, war in particular, you'll never understand.

Didn't you hear Matt earlier. Soldiers do what they do because they are property of the state and the state tells them too.

 

[75th]

Well, here's the most recent:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/23/terrorism.probe.ap/

Along with:

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=2407443&nav=1ugBRo4V

And lets not forget:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3321

Or:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050922/pl_afp/usattacksqaeda_050922234912

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/09/terror.probe/



So, can you at least take off your political anti-everything-Bush blinders and admit that, just maybe, our government is actually doing some good?

 

[Spartacus]

Prior statements from a guy who didn't know WWII was a war? Probably still doesn't since he is applying 1944 German Snipers to the Iraqi conflict.

whatever chief
it's a better analogy than you know
btw
don't use didn't and doesn't

 

[javaguru]

Didn't you hear Matt earlier. Soldiers do what they do because they are property of the state and the state tells them too.

Soldiers have a sense of duty and honor that most won't understand. Von Manstein hated Hitler and everything he stood for; He actively found legitimtae reasons for disobeying non-military orders from Hitler(using his men to institute the "final solution"). When approached during the bomb plot to assassinate Hitler his response was simply, "Prussian Marshals do not mutiny." He had sworn an oath and in Prussian tradition would be loyal to the end regardless of his personal feelings.

 

[AAP]

whatever chief
it's a better analogy than you know
btw
don't use didn't and doesn't

Better? This thread is about Sheehan, anti war protesting, the Iraqi war and you are babbling on about 1944 German snipers. And the analogy is? Hmmm..? German snipers in Iraq who horded WMD in airplanes they crashed in our towers? Is that it? Cause otherwise, that posting you pulled off the website http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2031 has absolutely nothing to do with what our conversation is all about in this thread.

I am going to bed now, do better research so your posts actually have a relevancy and connection to year 2005 and the thread topic.

 

[WODIN]

Along with:

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=2407443&nav=1ugBRo4V

And lets not forget:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=3321

Or:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050922/pl_afp/usattacksqaeda_050922234912

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/09/terror.probe/



So, can you at least take off your political anti-everything-Bush blinders and admit that, just maybe, our government is actually doing some good?

Yeah it was the FBI, not the military that uncovered an AQ plot on American soil. Not in Bahgdad.

This war will go down as the greatest mistake in American history.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war, you might be upset too.

Last time I heard, joining the military was about serving OUR country and protecting OUR country. Being in Iraq served us how? What did we gain? Being in Iraq protected us how? From cheap gasoline prices? Wow.

Since chicken shit bush wouldn't come down the road from his ranch to meet her, maybe he will do it in DC. Which I highly doubt as the man is the biggest coward that has ever been elected to any kind of office.

exactly.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

This war will go down as the greatest mistake in American history.[/QUOTE]

Actually I think this war is going exactly as planned. The gov't isn't going to come out and tell you this at the beginning.............and im just waiting for Iran to experience Bush's wrath also. LOL @ the people believing everything their texas queer steer tells them: "We are not going to war with Iran". IF we don't it will only be because you and some of your partners in crime get your asses thrown out of office--one way or another.

 

[manny78]

She broke the law (apparently), she got arrested and that's it, that's all. I dont see why people make a huge deal. There's no such thing as a law for her and one for the others.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If you would like to use the issue of what a soldier decides then give them the choice of coming home right now or not and see exactly what the decisions are. But since they don't have that choice, you hold the man who does responsible for the shit fest he stuck them in, in the first place.

LOL!!

Sheehan's son had the choice. He had the choice after he had already served. He chose to go back!

The rest of your post falls apart when you realize this truth.

Thanks for playing.

Everything else youhave written is:

(1) your non understanding of the nature of military service (it's not indentured servitude, it's slavery to the government - the government owns you - and most people do it for the economics)

(2) You don't like President Bush.

Easy enough. But Sheehan's son knew exactly what it was, he had a chance to come home, and HE WENT BACK.

Done. All of your other issues are background noise, and Cindy is a piece of trash.

 

[75th]

Yeah it was the FBI, not the military that uncovered an AQ plot on American soil. Not in Bahgdad.

This war will go down as the greatest mistake in American history.

So?

There are also a bunch of instances of our military uncovering/preventing plots and attacks overseas as well. If you take off your anti-everything-Bush blinders you would be able to see that.

 

[WODIN]

So?

There are also a bunch of instances of our military uncovering/preventing plots and attacks overseas as well. If you take off your anti-everything-Bush blinders you would be able to see that.

Punches a really big hole in that "We have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here." Bullshit.

 

[75th]

Punches a really big hole in that "We have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here." Bullshit.

I never said that, as I have been against the starting of the war as well.

But, in my mind, our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan has accomplished a lot in the way of hindering future attacks (either directed towards us or our allies). It is ok to admit that while still being against the war.

 

[Y_lifter]

I've not met too many GI's over NCO rank that had much of what
I thought of at the time as Common Sense.

As to Sheehan, I think she got exactly what she expected and wanted,
so everyone should be happy.

 

[AAP]

LOL!!

Sheehan's son had the choice. He had the choice after he had already served. He chose to go back!

The rest of your post falls apart when you realize this truth.

Thanks for playing.

Everything else youhave written is:

(1) your non understanding of the nature of military service (it's not indentured servitude, it's slavery to the government - the government owns you - and most people do it for the economics)

(2) You don't like President Bush.

Easy enough. But Sheehan's son knew exactly what it was, he had a chance to come home, and HE WENT BACK.

Done. All of your other issues are background noise, and Cindy is a piece of trash.

Umm... Indentured servitude, you were owned by someone else you know that. Same thing. You agree to a time frame, bide your time, do what you are told.

Your example there is null as it certainly does not pertain to or contradict anything I said by using that example.

Not too many people like Bush either. Not just me. Then again, get enough idiots together and they will elect anyone to lead their little crusades.

If Cindy is a piece of trash, I guess that makes Bush a bigger piece.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Umm... Indentured servitude, you were owned by someone else you know that. Same thing. You agree to a time frame, bide your time, do what you are told.

LOL. And throughout this post you've been criticizing the war from a soldier's perspective. It took you 60 posts to conclude it doesn't matter....great.

Your example there is null as it certainly does not pertain to or contradict anything I said by using that example.

Wrong. Here are your words:

If you would like to use the issue of what a soldier decides then give them the choice of coming home right now or not and see exactly what the decisions are. But since they don't have that choice...

Sheehan's son had the choice to come home or go back. He went back.


Here are some more of your words:

Perhaps if your childs life was wasted on a frivilous war

As sad as it is, he decided that it was a war worth fighting. No one forced him to go back. He decided it was worthwhile. You are sitting on the sidelines and saying "this war sucks" or "it doesn't do shit for Americans", and meanwhile this kid believed in it. It makes his Mom look like a moron to say that "Bush killed her son", when her son had a chance to come home. That's why Cindy Sheehan is a joke.

If you don't like the war, don't join. Don't vote for legislators who support it. Easy enough. If the draft comes back, I'll take your side.

Not too many people like Bush either. Not just me. Then again, get enough idiots together and they will elect anyone to lead their little crusades.

If Cindy is a piece of trash, I guess that makes Bush a bigger piece.

Wow, that's deep, thanks.

 

[AAP]

One person's decision to return doesn't account for everyone else's decision to want to come home. Duh!

To use your own words, it is not even about a soldiers perspective, but a STATE'S perspective of whether to keep them there or not. I haven't figured that one out yet.

Instead of causing your head to hurt arguing with me here, why not go and post those nasty pics on the other thread. I subscribed to it and so far - nothing.

 

[DJ_UFO]

*yawn*

Clinton? Remember when the towers fell? Bush's term. When he had intel prior that something along those lines was being planned. Can't ignore the fact he had info and didn't act upon it. People being burned, same scenario, same president, same term.

I am all for going after the terrorists. Let's go get 'em. Let's kill 'em all. How many Iraqi terrorists hijacked those planes? Hmmmm? How many of those terrorists were Iraqis? Gee, come to think about it, the man who personally claimed responsibility for all this is still at large. Or has Osama secretly been captured?

Those Iraqis we have killed? How many of them was killed during the Invasion of America? One? Two? None? Last time I checked, they were killed on their own soil. Which they were defending for whatever reason you may or may not can comprehend. What you think they were going to let invaders run in shooting and not return fire?

Bush ruining terrorist plans inside America. Maybe you can refresh my memory. I haven't heard of any terrorist - Iraqi or otherwise - being caught in America. Link? Hell even the sill shoe bomber was caught by another country.

Nice Hoo-ray bravado. But completely irrelevent. Post again when you have a better arguement to contribute.

Bro. Now I know why you can't understand the whole issue. FORGET CONVENTIONAL WAR. This a new type of war. Something completely different. Something even our armed forces were not prepared for. This is war on terrorism. War against Al-Qaeda. Forget that we are killing Iraquis, and the terrorists were not Iraquis, forget that we are invading Iraq, and Osama is from Afuckingstan, forget all that shit. Alqaeda has no border. Alqaeda has no country. Terrorists are not Iraqui, Irani, Afgani, whatever. THEY ARE TERRORISTS FROM AL-QAEDA. That's all it matters. And we are going to hunt them down here, in Mexico, in Iraq, wherever it's neccessary. WHy? Well, guess what. WE ARE THEIR MAIN TARGET. You can sleep in lalaland and act like they don't exist (clinton) and pay the consequences, or you can make a big sacrifice now to ensure our future and our future generations prosperity. SO you blame President because he didn't act against a terrorist threat? Dude. C'mon. When he became President, terrorists wre already permanent residents here from a long time ago. They were studying here, had a perfect english, etc. We could have deployed the whole military contingent across the nation but it was already too late. In this case, we needed prevention. Clinton had intelligence reports about Al-Qaeda infiltrating the country and he did NOTHING (0) to prevent it. Then the people blame President Bush when it was too late. Well, now he is preventing the same shit for the future. Even sacrificing it's own Presidency and popularity. It's hard. It's not easy. It's expensive. But worthy. Probably in the future we'll have another clinton, promising money for the poor, money for teachers, money for the unions, everybody happy and enjoying with a president fucking in it's office, thanks President George W. Bush for what he did in the past.

 

[DJ_UFO]

24/7? The man who has taken more vacation leave than any other President in history. Indisputeable fact there.

Yeah bro but at the same time it's the only president who has had:

- An economic recession courtesy of clinton ===> He succeeded
- The worst terrorist attacks in history ===> He succeeded.
- This leaded to 2 wars ===> He succeeded. The Red, White and Blue won one more time.
- The Columbia disaster that almost broke NASA ===> He succeeded.
- The most expensive natural disaster in History ===> He succeded.

Jesus Christ I would give this man a one year vacation with all expenses covered from our taxes. And that is still nothing.