Sesamin, so I got to thinkin

[Wulfgar]

And that gets me in trouble.
SOOO...If it is true that he activity and gene expression of enzymes involved in fatty acid synthesis including acetyl-CoA carboxylase, fatty acid synthase, ATP-citrate lyase and glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase decreased as the dietary level of sesamin increased and this is due (in theory) to sesamins related in vivo decrease to SREBP-1 leading to te inhibition of lipogenic enzyme gene expression. we all follow that? well this all makes sense in accordance to definately making this supplement an effective fat loss tool in these pathways. Im not arguing that. it has also benn show that sesamin and fish oil synergistcally have a great effect on hepatic fatty acid oxidation through unregulated gene expression of peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation enzymes. Good stuff for fat loss and liver health.

my question is in regard to sesamin intake during a muscle gaining phase. Sesamin is a specific inhibitor of delta 5 desaturation, the conversion from dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid to arachidonic acid. In essence also inhibiting the COX enzyme. This would lead to an decrease in the Arachidonic acid cascase(right?). well that tells me that sesamin is a excellent anti-oxidant and liver health tool but it also is an anti-inflammatory agent. Like other COX inhibitors and AA inhibitors this in turn would decrease Protaglandin production leading to sub-optimal levels of inflammation in tissues resulting from exercise. Since this reaction and formation of PG production is EXTREMELY anabolic would it not be safe to assume that Sesamin intake during a high anabolic period would inhibit optimal muscular growth???
Again i could be way off....but this just got me thinking
if anyone wants to chime in on thier experiencees feel free..

 

[SgtSlaughter]

I'm interested to see what Macro has to say to that

 

[Wulfgar]

ya he is gonna bomb me I think...

 

[drrman]

And that gets me in trouble.
SOOO...If it is true that he activity and gene expression of enzymes involved in fatty acid synthesis including acetyl-CoA carboxylase, fatty acid synthase, ATP-citrate lyase and glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase decreased as the dietary level of sesamin increased and this is due (in theory) to sesamins related in vivo decrease to SREBP-1 leading to te inhibition of lipogenic enzyme gene expression. we all follow that? well this all makes sense in accordance to definately making this supplement an effective fat loss tool in these pathways. Im not arguing that. it has also benn show that sesamin and fish oil synergistcally have a great effect on hepatic fatty acid oxidation through unregulated gene expression of peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation enzymes. Good stuff for fat loss and liver health.

my question is in regard to sesamin intake during a muscle gaining phase. Sesamin is a specific inhibitor of delta 5 desaturation, the conversion from dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid to arachidonic acid. In essence also inhibiting the COX enzyme. This would lead to an decrease in the Arachidonic acid cascase(right?). well that tells me that sesamin is a excellent anti-oxidant and liver health tool but it also is an anti-inflammatory agent. Like other COX inhibitors and AA inhibitors this in turn would decrease Protaglandin production leading to sub-optimal levels of inflammation in tissues resulting from exercise. Since this reaction and formation of PG production is EXTREMELY anabolic would it not be safe to assume that Sesamin intake during a high anabolic period would inhibit optimal muscular growth???
Again i could be way off....but this just got me thinking
if anyone wants to chime in on thier experiencees feel free..

man you seem to be a very intelligent person when it comes to diet bro!!

 

[Wulfgar]

dude I am SOO working on your diet right now! Fuck im an idiot and it slipped my mind the other day...lol
sorry bro

 

[SgtSlaughter]

na, he won't "bomb" you... I think my brain may explode from what he may say... and the use of a dictionary will be very nessesary

lol!

 

[immortalis]

if thats what youre thinkin about in your free time... wow. lol.

Im interested in the "findings" also as im currently eatting Sesapure like they are fuckin flintstones vitamins!

 

[SgtSlaughter]

Im interested in the "findings" also as im currently eatting Sesapure like they are fuckin flintstones vitamins!

Just an FYI Just in case: if you get headaches and are shitting like it's ur job ur taking too many, lol.

 

[Wulfgar]

what are your results on it?
i mean i can totally see the fat loss
but I wouldnt really want to use it If im shooting for serious growth...hell i try to stay awau from aspirin or ANY anti-inflammatory agent when Im trying to gain maximum muscle tissue. instead Ill use pro-inflammatory agents
Also, its been proven to show that sesamin increases the Omega-6- Omega-3 ratios...so that can have some negative effects on lipid profiles and on heart health along with prostate health it would seem....

 

[macrophage69alpha]

no bombing. Those are relevant points to some extent. However the effects of AA on anabolism are neglible, and mostly negative in relation to smooth muscle, and most people get more than enough AA in their diet to compensate.

there has been a push, by those selling AA (yes people actually sell fatty acids that directly compromises your vascular health), to view AA as an anabolic agent. Most studies indicate that its elevation is a by product of anabolism and training/stress, poorly correlated with anabolism itself

 

[boxerjake]

bump ^^

 

[SgtSlaughter]

It's worked extremely well for me cutting fat down and putting some LBM on

I'm pro-sesamin for sure. (and r-ALA, ala Gluc-R)

I think my joints (especially the one's prone to tendonitis) would kick my ass if i used pro-inflamatories

 

[bilter]

but they "claim" it improves lipid profiles.
BTW, I am still trying to digest what you wrote in your opening stament..........

 

[dsh89]

Interesting point, and reply. I was considering using this product. Any others with experience with it?

 

[drrman]

Just an FYI Just in case: if you get headaches and are shitting like it's ur job ur taking too many, lol.

i've BEEN THERE FOR SURE!!! i thought that's what was causing it, glad you said that

 

[Wulfgar]

no bombing. Those are relevant points to some extent. However the effects of AA on anabolism are neglible, and mostly negative in relation to smooth muscle, and most people get more than enough AA in their diet to compensate.

there has been a push, by those selling AA (yes people actually sell fatty acids that directly compromises your vascular health), to view AA as an anabolic agent. Most studies indicate that its elevation is a by product of anabolism and training/stress, poorly correlated with anabolism itself

well macro. explain to me why the effectiveness of AA supplementation is useless. High lactic acid buildup as a result of intense burning during training as well as myofacial stretching release prostaglandins by acting on the 2 enzymes that are responsible for thier formation: Phospholipase A2 is increased which results in the freeing of bound AA within muscle cells. Then the muscular contractions increase COX-2, which transforms newly freed AA into PG's. This continues for days after workouts and is considered highly anabolic. PGF-2 is the most elevated of PG production. FGF-2 synthesis is also elevated though in smaller amounts. . As the training induced muscle injury heals , the amount of PGF-2 production increases progessively(requiring AA to do so). (which is responsible for much of the anabolic effects of training).
so would it just be wiser to do direct site injections with PGF-2 rather than injest supercompensatory doses of AA as far as vascular health is concerned? And at the same time...Sesamin would also negate some of the effects of the inflammatory actions of the PG's in the tissue by acting as a cox inhibitor.
Is the effect of sesamin on this action negligable?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

though as a note- AA is rather plentiful in the diet and DHGLA reduction is the least source.

 

[Wulfgar]

It's worked extremely well for me cutting fat down and putting some LBM on

I'm pro-sesamin for sure. (and r-ALA, ala Gluc-R)

I think my joints (especially the one's prone to tendonitis) would kick my ass if i used pro-inflamatories

ya, old injuries definately flare up with pro-inflammatory drugs...i dont recommend thier use to anyone with joint pains.
I actually have some of my clients on Sesamin and RLA supplements right now
I love the RLA and its effects on regulating Fat accumulation during high growth phases as well as an EXCEPTIONAL insulin mimicker/replacement

the clients on sesamin I find are having good results with fat loss....but thier muscular gains are not particularly keeping in par with what ive hoped..i was curious if this was a culprit

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Nov 1;64(9):1345-54. Related Articles, Links


Inhibition of prostaglandin E(2) production by taiwanin C isolated from the root of Acanthopanax chiisanensis and the mechanism of action.

Ban HS, Lee S, Kim YP, Yamaki K, Shin KH, Ohuchi K.

Laboratory of Pathophysiological Biochemistry, Graduate School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Tohoku University, Aoba Aramaki, Aoba-ku, Sendai, 980-8578, Miyagi, Japan.

Five lignans, l-sesamin, savinin, helioxanthin, taiwanin C, and cis-dibenzylbutyrolactone, were isolated from the root of Acanthopanax chiisanensis (Araliaceae), a Korean medicinal plant, and their inhibitory effects on the production of prostaglandin (PG) E(2) stimulated by 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol 13-acetate (TPA) in rat peritoneal macrophages were examined. Among the five lignans, taiwanin C was the most potent (IC(50)=0.12 microM), followed by helioxanthin, cis-dibenzylbutyrolactone, and savinin. l-Sesamin had no effect. Taiwanin C showed no inhibitory effect on the TPA-induced release of radioactivity from [3H]arachidonic acid-labeled macrophages, nor did it inhibit the expression of cyclooxygenase (COX)-2 protein induced by TPA. However, the activities of isolated COX-1 and COX-2 were inhibited by taiwanin C (IC(50)=1.06 and 9.31 microM, respectively), reflecting the inhibition of both COX-1- and COX-2-dependent PGE(2) production in the cell culture system. These findings suggest that the mechanism of action of taiwanin C in the inhibition of PGE(2) production is the direct inhibition of COX enzymatic activity.

 

[Wulfgar]

those freakin pub med studies kill me...lol
for everyone i find saying one thing..i find 10 more saying just the opposite
I just dont want this to turn into a cut and paste war ...hehe

i suppose clincal studies are always the best...but if you do some more pub med searches i guarantee you will see what Im talking about..

 

[macrophage69alpha]

agree that is does inhibit reduction of DHGLA (really a very good thing).. it will have some minor impact on AA, but no significant impact on PGE2.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

for us "lay people:"

Seasapure is still fine to use on a bulk/gaining muscle "cycle"?


lol...just clarifing for all

 

[immortalis]

what are your results on it?
i mean i can totally see the fat loss
but I wouldnt really want to use it If im shooting for serious growth...hell i try to stay awau from aspirin or ANY anti-inflammatory agent when Im trying to gain maximum muscle tissue. instead Ill use pro-inflammatory agents
Also, its been proven to show that sesamin increases the Omega-6- Omega-3 ratios...so that can have some negative effects on lipid profiles and on heart health along with prostate health it would seem....

My results are hard to really attribute to one thing because I have so many compounds in my body right now.

I just came off (3 weeks off now) of 520Test/500Deca for 18 weeks. I finished at 220lbs and up to around 17% bf.

Immediately after that was over I shifted right into a cutting run and ran a 2-week Clen cycle, in conjunction with Sesapure/Glucorell and some CardioBreeze until I ran out.

After my 2-week run on Clen was over I had lost 7 pounds and was at 13% bodyfat.

I sub'd T-rex for Clen and have been on T-rex/Sesapure/Glucorell/YES ever since however my WEIGHT loss seems to have become stagnant. Im floating right around 215 and staying just above 10% bf. However my lower abs are starting to show back up very well now.

I still think im maintaining and possibly adding a little lean muscle still, just because im not losing any weight but I can tell a difference in my mid-section.


My diet and routine has been as follows:

4:30am
small portion of Tuna w/egg whites and 1 slice of wheat bread
1 T-rex with 2 Sesa/Gluc.

7:00am
1/3 cup of oats
2 16oz 2% milks each with probably a lil less than 1/3 cup of whey isolate

12:00
6-inch roasted chicken on wheat from subway with water
1 T-Rex with 2 Sesa/Gluc.

3:00
Apply YES
WORKOUT

4:30
20 mins of cardio on stationary bike

5:00
PWO shake in 2% milk with Dextrose, glutamine, creatine and whey isolate

6ish
Somewhat healthy dinner... whatever wifey makes
3 Sesa/Gluc

I hope this information is useful to ya Wolf.

 

[Wulfgar]

it would interesting to see what a study done by a chemical like Thapsigargin would result being a non 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol 13-acetate would show. also thapsigargin's release is mediated, in part, by a Ca 2+-dependent PLA2...not necessarily just PLA2...so it stands to reason that possibly that study could be different if a different mode of AA production were used? such as just PLA2

but then again this is hypothetical..im just ranting...lol
its probably true that both types of tumor promoting drugs would both release active AA in the system just through differing mechanisms.

 

[Wulfgar]

agree that is does inhibit reduction of DHGLA (really a very good thing).. it will have some minor impact on AA, but no significant impact on PGE2.

and this is still within the recommended doses Macro? like 10 Grams a day and under?
and your saying it would be alright then to inject PGF2 locally for site enhancement while on Sesamin without having to be concerned with the anit-inflammatory effects negating the pro-inflammatory aspects of the exogenous PG?

 

[Wulfgar]

My results are hard to really attribute to one thing because I have so many compounds in my body right now.

I just came off (3 weeks off now) of 520Test/500Deca for 18 weeks. I finished at 220lbs and up to around 17% bf.

Immediately after that was over I shifted right into a cutting run and ran a 2-week Clen cycle, in conjunction with Sesapure/Glucorell and some CardioBreeze until I ran out.

After my 2-week run on Clen was over I had lost 7 pounds and was at 13% bodyfat.

I sub'd T-rex for Clen and have been on T-rex/Sesapure/Glucorell/YES ever since however my WEIGHT loss seems to have become stagnant. Im floating right around 215 and staying just above 10% bf. However my lower abs are starting to show back up very well now.

I still think im maintaining and possibly adding a little lean muscle still, just because im not losing any weight but I can tell a difference in my mid-section.


My diet and routine has been as follows:

4:30am
small portion of Tuna w/egg whites and 1 slice of wheat bread
1 T-rex with 2 Sesa/Gluc.

7:00am
1/3 cup of oats
2 16oz 2% milks each with probably a lil less than 1/3 cup of whey isolate

12:00
6-inch roasted chicken on wheat from subway with water
1 T-Rex with 2 Sesa/Gluc.

3:00
Apply YES
WORKOUT

4:30
20 mins of cardio on stationary bike

5:00
PWO shake in 2% milk with Dextrose, glutamine, creatine and whey isolate

6ish
Somewhat healthy dinner... whatever wifey makes
3 Sesa/Gluc

I hope this information is useful to ya Wolf.

thx bro...K to you..

 

[macrophage69alpha]

and this is still within the recommended doses Macro? like 10 Grams a day and under?
and your saying it would be alright then to inject PGF2 locally for site enhancement while on Sesamin without having to be concerned with the anit-inflammatory effects negating the pro-inflammatory aspects of the exogenous PG?

not sure what you mean by the first 2 questions.

as for the third
it would have no impact