SERM and AI for Gyno?

[zips92]

I have gyno from Test (no progest - nadrolone/trenbolone), and have come across several opinions on the best way to resolve.

I have been using Letro (2.5 mg/day) for two weeks now, and stopped using test (last shot 2.5 weeks ago at 300 mg), and currently not using any other aromatizable AAS (unless you consider 500 mg/week of EQ aromatizable).

I am considering adding Nolva into the mix because I am not really sure the Letro is helping.......I felt like I had a flare-up today, sudden burning and sensitivity in the nips, that wasn't there a week ago. Lumps seem to be the same size as 2.5 weeks ago.

Any experiences out there on whether adding a SERM concurrently with Letro will help or hinder the Letro use? I am really becoming worried about this gyno with this flare-up today, I am wondering if that is typical also, after two weeks into the Letro use. Thanks bros!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

eq does aromatize.

how long have you been taking nolva?

it is odd to have a flare up, though it could be totally unrelated. ie. high insulin responses can cause flares (igf and other growth factors)

 

[Silent Method]

He's not taken nolva yet according to the post. I'd jump on the nolva ASAP.

 

[zips92]

eq does aromatize.

how long have you been taking nolva?

it is odd to have a flare up, though it could be totally unrelated. ie. high insulin responses can cause flares (igf and other growth factors)

I thought it was odd also, and I am scared to death. Just took my shirt off and I never imagined I could look so bad. The sensitivity and burning seemed to reduce after about a week, although lumps were still there and pretty hard.

Then today...POW! Burning, senesitivity and the worst the gyno has looked eer, even noticeable through my shirt. Only injections I have taken since stopping the test is EQ (250 mg 2x/week), and I am also running oral winny.

I was wondering if a SERM can really help gyno much AFTER it has already developed, and if I am no longer taking aromatizable AAS? I actually wasn't taking Nolva at cycle onset, which included 550 mg/week of Test (mixed esters). I was taking 15 mg aromasin EOD and 4 pumps of AIFM every day (no letro), but gyno still developed after 2 weeks. I got letro after gyno showed and have been taking a little over 2 weeks.

Very scared and confused.

 

[Silent Method]

>>

I'd jump on the nolva ASAP.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

stop taking the winstrol. it is most likely the agonist in this case. Its not a common aggravating factor, in fact it often has the opposite effect when the issue is from progestins.

if winstrol is causing the issue (which seems likely considering you have been on letro for 2 weeks at full dosage) nolva may aggravate the situation

 

[Silent Method]

stop taking the winstrol. it is most likely the agonist in this case. Its not a common aggravating factor, in fact it often has the opposite effect when the issue is from progestins.

if winstrol is causing the issue (which seems likely considering you have been on letro for 2 weeks at full dosage) nolva may aggravate the situation

I thought winny was no worry. Any way to predict such problems with winstrol or just have to try it out?

Do you think the nolva may aggravate specifically because, if winstrol is the culprit, he's potentially hypersensitive to gyno symptoms from anything that binds in the breast? Is this just a matter of too much junk hitting the breast, or are you pointing out a specific interaction between nolva and winstrol?

 

[zips92]

Never heard of winny being an agonist, this is interesting but scary also.

I have been taking winny for 4 weeks, so I don't mind stopping now at all. If winny is the agonist, does this suggest the whole time I have been taking letro while taking winny, that I have lost those two weeks? In other words, am I essentially starting all over again making progress on my gyno if I stop the winny today, as if this was day one with the letro?

Man this is so confusing, and I am NEVER using test again ever, or at least a short or mixed ester. Silent Method poses some interesting questions also?

Hypersenistive to gyno, I hate the sound of that. What does the gyno surgery cost and is there a way for insurance to cover?

 

[Silent Method]

Man this is so confusing, and I am NEVER using test again ever, or at least a short or mixed ester. Silent Method poses some interesting questions also?

Of course it might not be the test...

Do you know that your letro is legit?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Do you know that your letro is legit?

this is also an issue. have encountered several liquid letros that were not.

IMO unless the manufacturer does and provides regular testing its an issue.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Never heard of winny being an agonist, this is interesting but scary also.

I have been taking winny for 4 weeks, so I don't mind stopping now at all. If winny is the agonist, does this suggest the whole time I have been taking letro while taking winny, that I have lost those two weeks? In other words, am I essentially starting all over again making progress on my gyno if I stop the winny today, as if this was day one with the letro?

Man this is so confusing, and I am NEVER using test again ever, or at least a short or mixed ester. Silent Method poses some interesting questions also?

Hypersenistive to gyno, I hate the sound of that. What does the gyno surgery cost and is there a way for insurance to cover?

winny is an agonist, though its mainly an antagonist. the issue may be progesterone suppression as well as IGF- increases, modulation of blood glucose(insulin and associated growth factors) and suppression of SHBG. also since you are no longer taking test, no DHT to modulate the ER.

basically there are a lot of potential reasons for your current situation, winstrol is among them.

 

[zips92]

How does anyone really know if letro is legit? I have taken liquid reserach chems from both AG-Guys and Researchology/Lion Nutrition. The letro bottle I have now is L-Fem from AG-Guys.

Macro, are you suggesting that perhaps a maintenance dose of test may help....... modulate the estrogen receptor (ER - is that right), and what does that mean for layman bros?

About the only things I have found conclusive is that this can be considered my ninth cycle. I have only taken test during my last two cycles, and these are the only two ctyles I have ever developed any gyno (including tren and deca cycles with winny). My previous cycle started out with essentially a maintenance dose of test at 125 mg/week, with no problems. I increased that to 250 mg/week towards the end of my cycle and developed some minor gyno rather quickly, but stopped my cyle after two more weeks. I then took 3.5 months off from AAS, and minor gyno went away.

I started this cycle with 550 mg/week of test with upgraded AI. They didn't work, and now I am where I am? I really cannot see ever having surgery. Any suggestions on where to get truly legit Femara with confidence? Will a doctor help prescribe for me really? You bros are great, thanks for the help!

 

[zips92]

^^

 

[macrophage69alpha]

drop the winny, if thats the issue you should notice improvement or at least less aggravation within a couple days (some even sooner)

 

[Silent Method]

Macro, is there any clear conclusion to be drawn about him using nolva?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Macro, is there any clear conclusion to be drawn about him using nolva?

no their is not a clear conclusion, as the PgR issue that comes with nolva may (stress on may) not be a problem, however if he is not responding to letro the issue is very likely not excess estrogen (at least at this point having run 2.5mg for 2 weeks)

unless of course the letro is not good.

however dropping the winny is the easiest thing to do and the one that will yield an answer quickly

 

[SwolK]

come off the winny as macro said, and if it were me i would come off of the eq also. then see where you are at. then you know for sure the winny and eq wont play a factor

 

[Silent Method]

So if winny is dropped and the gyno symptoms star to fade, nolva would likely be ineffective in this case anyway?

I'd still think that binding up some receptors with the nolva might be a good idea, am I wrong?


Gyno scares the shit out of me btw!

 

[zips92]

So if winny is dropped and the gyno symptoms star to fade, nolva would likely be ineffective in this case anyway?

I'd still think that binding up some receptors with the nolva might be a good idea, am I wrong?


Gyno scares the shit out of me btw!

I am thinking/hoping the same thing also about binding some receptors with Nolva, but Letro has had so much feedback to be the gyno cure all (all types) with no other support needed other than possibly Nolva to help with lipids/cholesterol. Albeit Letro is supposedly risky for long term use......

What about Clomid in lieu of Nolva for the exact same purpose? I have had better results with Clomid than Nolva during PCT. I am assuming the same (at appropriate relative dosages) effects for either.

If I stop taking winny, EQ and Test, (which I have done), there is nothing left. Either the liquid letro dosage is incorrect, got a bad batch, was taking way too much gear and it is taking a long time to clear, or something is terribly, terribly wrong because my nipples are on fire and excruciating to touch after subsiding just a few days ago with no new injections (just the oral winny).

 

[gettinripped]

this thread is making my nips itch. also, macro, he says he was taking 4 pumps of aifm a day. there can be now way that he is contracting the gyno from estro surplus???? this is definitley worth following up with.

 

[Silent Method]

this thread is making my nips itch. also, macro, he says he was taking 4 pumps of aifm a day. there can be now way that he is contracting the gyno from estro surplus???? this is definitley worth following up with.

lol, I'm squirming with scenarios in my head. I want to believe I have a weapon to assuredly inhibit any gyno for whatever compounds I may choose to run - but I know this is not always possible. Winny is something I've scratched off my list for now.

 

[gettinripped]

lol, I'm squirming with scenarios in my head. I want to believe I have a weapon to assuredly inhibit any gyno for whatever compounds I may choose to run - but I know this is not always possible. Winny is something I've scratched off my list for now.

not sure if i've scratched it off my list but will certainly keep a really close eye on it if and when i run it.

 

[zips92]

I know it's early, but I stopped the winny yesterday morning, and no detectable improvements at all, pain/burning still the same, tiny bit more swelling.

gettinripped, you are suggesting my gyno is not from estrogen surplus, and believe me I thought the same thing also because I was using AIFM and Aromasin concurrently at cycle onset. Any other suggestion/idea on what else could produce such bad rapid gyno if not estrogen? I have used Deca on four cycles previously, varied from 250 mg/week to 400 mg/week, and varied from 8 -14 weeks. Sometimes I used Deca alone, sometimes with oral winny. I never had any gyno/prolactin issues at all, and took no dostinex while on cycle.

Last cycle I used Tren for the first time (mixed ester), cycled for 5 weeks on, then 4 weeks off, then 5 weeks on. I didn't experience any gyno until I upped my test dosage to 250 mg/week from 125 mg/week. All I wanted was a small maintenance dose of test, and I decided to up it the latter part of the cycle since I had no problems the first 5 weeks.

I am confused as anyone, and sincerely scared. This is incredibly embarrassing and is changing my life. What if I up the letro dose if 2.5 mg/day isn't helping enough? Any thoughts?

 

[zips92]

bump for update/feedback

 

[gettinripped]

I know it's early, but I stopped the winny yesterday morning, and no detectable improvements at all, pain/burning still the same, tiny bit more swelling.

gettinripped, you are suggesting my gyno is not from estrogen surplus, and believe me I thought the same thing also because I was using AIFM and Aromasin concurrently at cycle onset. Any other suggestion/idea on what else could produce such bad rapid gyno if not estrogen? I have used Deca on four cycles previously, varied from 250 mg/week to 400 mg/week, and varied from 8 -14 weeks. Sometimes I used Deca alone, sometimes with oral winny. I never had any gyno/prolactin issues at all, and took no dostinex while on cycle.

Last cycle I used Tren for the first time (mixed ester), cycled for 5 weeks on, then 4 weeks off, then 5 weeks on. I didn't experience any gyno until I upped my test dosage to 250 mg/week from 125 mg/week. All I wanted was a small maintenance dose of test, and I decided to up it the latter part of the cycle since I had no problems the first 5 weeks.

I am confused as anyone, and sincerely scared. This is incredibly embarrassing and is changing my life. What if I up the letro dose if 2.5 mg/day isn't helping enough? Any thoughts?

bro, i am no expert and certainly not in position to answer any questions intelligently. i was merely asking mac or ulter that it's not possible to be estro related due to the fact you were applying AIFM. i certainly feel for you and hope things get worked out. keep us posted as to the results as i think the board needs to know.