Serious: Probems keeping gains - what do do?

[Dr.X]

After a few successful cycles, my training partner (6' 255, 12%bf) is faced with a serious situation we all may experience someday. It's been about 4 weeks post-cycle, and he is doing everything right (diet, training, sleep, post-cycle agents, etc.) but is returning to his baseline (precycle) weight. Has he reached his "genetic limit"? Should he increase dosages on the next cycle? I'm really not sure if this would help. What about GH or other drugs? Become a full-timer?
Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated and could probably help out a lot of guys out there in similar situations.

 

[Golfer18--old]

Get him to change his workour COMPLETELY and the major thing to do would be to use ox for about 4 weeks at 20mgED postcycle.

 

[mr-miagi]

to tell you the truth im not sure, are you sure the post drug agents are real? what is he taking? gh would probably help, but i cant fathom clomid, hcg, anavar, or even clen not working to keep gains. some (not saying he is one of em) stop working out with same intensity after a cycle, no motivation, if this is the case hes just being lazy, if not i better leave it to one of the more experienced folks round here.

 

[ironbarbarian]

20g of creatine a day.
6g of ribose a day.
30g of glutamine a day.
1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight
clomid
dhea

Is he taking all these? could use some proviron.

IB

 

[Dr.X]

He's taken/taking everything that may help:
CLA
HMB
Clomid
HCG
Creatine
Tribex
Glutamine

[This list probably isn't even complete]

I really don't think it's overtraining, as we cut our frequency and volume down significantly already.

He eats 400+g protein a day and gets plenty of calories so I don't think it's that either.

WTF???

 

[M56M]

Did he use clomid after all his past cycle? How many has he done?

M56M

 

[Shaved Ape]

Dr.X's training partner here --
Thanks for the suggestions. I am still struggling with this issue and thought some more info would be useful. I do feel that this is a problem many people will have to deal with as they push farther and farther past their natural genetic potential. I think that more discussion of this subject and how to best deal with it would be beneficial for all.

I have been training consistently for around 10 years, the first 8.5 natural. I have a thin frame but gradually gained size throughout the years, reaching 270 (fat) and 230 (lean) before starting AAS.

My diet has been right on for at least the past 7 years, and is currently as sharp as it has ever been. I eat 8 times a day and drink a protein shake in the middle of the night, get over 450g protein every day, with moderate carbs and fat.

I gained 15-20lb for each of my first few cycles and kept around 75% of the weight afterwards. I also gained around 15 on each of my last two cycles but have only kept around 25% of the gains at the most. This is with the supplementation and clomid therapy Dr.X mentioned.

I know some water will be lost post-cycle but this is not sufficient to explain my problems. I keep watching my weight drop while my bodyfat climbs. I reduced my workout volume significantly after the most recent cycle and increased intensity accordingly, and it is very hard to believe that I am overtrained right now.

I guess the issue is, if you are a hard trainer of average genetics and are pushing way past your genetic potential, you will most likely run into some serious resistance to your progress at some point. I'll quit rambling now, but more input would be appreciated.