Serious HGH Problem

[allenb]

Has anyone had this happen or knows why would cause the following problem... A person has a higher HGH (IGF-1 test reading) before he starts taking HGH. Then after being on HGH for a few months gets tested again but to his surprise HGH (IGF-1 test) comes back MUCH LOWER than before supplementing with HGH inj. No good effects nor side effects were noticed from the HGH inj except a little numbing sensation.

Does this mean that the HGH was bad or fake? Or perhaps a scam. For example by replacing what should have been HGH with something that could actually lower a persons own HGH? Or could it be that some people taking HGH inj can have an opposite effect and actually end up with less HGH in the body?

Any suggestions on what might be happening?

 

[einstein1905]

An immune response to exo GH (most likely with excess bacterial residual protein) could elicit an immune response, which would induce the synthesis of anti-GH antibodies. Once an anti-GH immune response is formed, any subsequent exposure to GH (exo or endo) will be bound by neutralizing antibodies and lead to antibody-mediated degradation, which means GH won't be mediating its effects, so it won't be elevating IGF-1 levels.


What brand? How soon after stopping exo GH were you tested? When during the day werer you injecting?

 

[juve]

it is simply a negative feedback loop - a bodily attempt to maintain homeostasis by regulating receptor density or somatemidins concentration or suppressing precursor mechanisms (mainly endocrine) due to an overabundance of hGH (induced by r-hGH).
I would conjecture that this is all just a temporary condition while body is re-adjusting; I doubt there will be a chronic change, but to assert that would require monitoring.


BTW, numbing sensation would seem like a good indicator that his r-hGH was real!

HOw long and how much r-hGH was administered?

 

[einstein1905]

it is simply a negative feedback loop - a bodily attempt to maintain homeostasis by regulating receptor density or somatemidins concentration or suppressing precursor mechanisms (mainly endocrine) due to an overabundance of hGH (induced by r-hGH).
I would conjecture that this is all just a temporary condition while body is re-adjusting; I doubt there will be a chronic change, but to assert that would require monitoring.


BTW, numbing sensation would seem like a good indicator that his r-hGH was real!

HOw long and how much r-hGH was administered?

But due to GH's pulsatile endogenous regulation (about every 4-5hrs), you should be back to fully normal GH patterns of release (and quantity) within at least 48hrs of ceasing exo GH....even less.

 

[lawnsaver]

Did he have his blood work done 6 hours post injection?? The Exo Gh would have left the system and could result in low levels.

 

[juve]

Einstein: very true, but as i said body has a negative feedback mechanism either by downregulating adrenal receptor density, GhRH or substrates used as a precursor to hGH secretion and production.

J Appl Physiol. 1988 Aug;65(2):579-84. Related Articles, Links


Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults.

Crist DM, Peake GT, Egan PA, Waters DL.

Department of Medicine, University of New Mexico School of Medicine, Albuquerque 87131.

The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age. By the use of double-blind procedures, met-hGH (2.67 mg/0.5 ml diluent, 3 days/wk) and bacteriostatic water (placebo, 0.5 ml, 3 days/wk) were administered in a repeated-measures design that counterbalanced treatment order. Duration of each treatment was 6 wk. Subjects trained with progressive resistance exercise throughout and were maintained on a high-protein diet monitored by extensive compositional analyses of daily dietary intake records. Hydrodensitometry revealed that met-hGH significantly decreased percent body fat (%fat) and increased fat-free weight (FFW) and FFW/fat weight (FW), whereas the placebo treatment did not change any of these measures. Changes in FFW/FW correlated with the relative dose of met-hGH but did not correlate with either the peak GH response to L-dopa/arginine stimulation or IGF-I levels obtained after treatment with placebo. There were no differences between treatments in the dietary intakes of total kilocalories, protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Mean IGF-I levels were elevated after treatment with met-hGH compared with postplacebo levels. After treatment with met-hGH, five of seven subjects had a suppressed GH response to stimulation from either L-dopa/arginine or submaximal exercise. We conclude that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will alter body composition in exercising adults in a relative dose-dependent manner and that such treatment may suppress endogenous release of GH in some individuals.


This is just one of the studies that come up within one search, I'm sure more could be easily acquired after more rigorous screening of med databases.

 

[einstein1905]

Einstein: very true, but as i said body has a negative feedback mechanism either by downregulating adrenal receptor density, GhRH or substrates used as a precursor to hGH secretion and production.

J Appl Physiol. 1988 Aug;65(2):579-84. Related Articles, Links


Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults.

Crist DM, Peake GT, Egan PA, Waters DL.

Department of Medicine, University of New Mexico School of Medicine, Albuquerque 87131.

The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age. By the use of double-blind procedures, met-hGH (2.67 mg/0.5 ml diluent, 3 days/wk) and bacteriostatic water (placebo, 0.5 ml, 3 days/wk) were administered in a repeated-measures design that counterbalanced treatment order. Duration of each treatment was 6 wk. Subjects trained with progressive resistance exercise throughout and were maintained on a high-protein diet monitored by extensive compositional analyses of daily dietary intake records. Hydrodensitometry revealed that met-hGH significantly decreased percent body fat (%fat) and increased fat-free weight (FFW) and FFW/fat weight (FW), whereas the placebo treatment did not change any of these measures. Changes in FFW/FW correlated with the relative dose of met-hGH but did not correlate with either the peak GH response to L-dopa/arginine stimulation or IGF-I levels obtained after treatment with placebo. There were no differences between treatments in the dietary intakes of total kilocalories, protein, carbohydrates, and fat. Mean IGF-I levels were elevated after treatment with met-hGH compared with postplacebo levels. After treatment with met-hGH, five of seven subjects had a suppressed GH response to stimulation from either L-dopa/arginine or submaximal exercise. We conclude that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will alter body composition in exercising adults in a relative dose-dependent manner and that such treatment may suppress endogenous release of GH in some individuals.


This is just one of the studies that come up within one search, I'm sure more could be easily acquired after more rigorous screening of med databases.

I don't know how I've never seen this study before. The only two other studies I've seen that looked at exo GH's effects on endo GH (and IGF-1) were only looking at endo GH and IGF-1 levels DURING exo GH administration.
Since this one is from '88, the fulltext online isn't available, so I'll have to dig up the hard copt on Monday, but I'd like to know WHEN during the day that dosing occurred. I've talked to someone that has yet to publish, but their rat studies looking at a the same thing have suggested that exo GH administered before bed for an extended period did have an effect on endo GH well after ceasing exo GH, whereas administering exo GH in the morning for the same duration had no such effects

 

[allenb]

Bros, Your input is really appreciated.

[Quote:] What brand? How soon after stopping exo GH were you tested? When during the day werer you injecting? [EQ]

No specific brand name, it was compounded. There had not yet been a stopping period. Testing was administered while on GH. There had not yet been a stopping period. Injection time usually early morning around 1-2 hours after breakfast. Every once and a while it would be around 1-2 hours before bed.

[Quote:] HOw long and how much r-hGH was administered? [EQ]

Time period 3 1/2 months at 2IU per day.

 

[allenb]

Could the quality of the GH itself possibly be part of the reason for suppression? This is all very interesting but really confusing. I had really never even heard of anyone taking GH and then being worse off then before they started. Seems that even if a persons own GH was suppressed that the values would still go up because it was being administered externally. If GH has been suppressed possibly due to exo rHGH then where does that leave a guy? What should a person do now that they are in a GH deficent state?

 

[einstein1905]

Bros, Your input is really appreciated.

[Quote:] What brand? How soon after stopping exo GH were you tested? When during the day werer you injecting? [EQ]

No specific brand name, it was compounded. There had not yet been a stopping period. Testing was administered while on GH. There had not yet been a stopping period. Injection time usually early morning around 1-2 hours after breakfast. Every once and a while it would be around 1-2 hours before bed.

[Quote:] HOw long and how much r-hGH was administered? [EQ]

Time period 3 1/2 months at 2IU per day.

When was the blood draw in relation to the exo GH dosing that day?