Scary UK rape statistics- what to do?

[Julez]

5% or 1 in 20 women have been the victims of rape.
45% were raped by someone they knew
Only 7% of REPORTED rapes actually led to a conviction.
As a women, you are three times as likely to be raped if your income is less than £10,000

www.bbc.co.uk

I did'nt think it was that bad here. If I had my way all rapists would have their genitals hacked off with a rusty ice pick.

In any case, we gotta do something; this is way out of hand.

 

[dballer]

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[the nature boy]

yeah but what do you do? Stop serving booze?

 

[Doktor Bollix]

You mean this?

No offence. Your concern is commendable but you have the figures assways.

'One in 20' women raped

One in 20 women in England and Wales has been the victim of rape, according to Home Office statistics.
The new figures suggest 167 women are raped every day, but only one in five attacks is reported to the police.



We have all seen the way rape victims are treated in court - it is not part of the healing process

Sandra McNeill
Rape Crisis Federation

The government has launched a 13-point action plan to try to encourage more women to report the crimes and make prosecution easier.

Currently only one in 13 cases ends with a conviction.

"Rape is an abhorrent crime which deeply affects the lives of its victims and the decline in the rate of convictions has been unequivocal and worrying," said Home Office Minister John Denham.

"The government is determined to face up to this issue and act to turn round the low reporting and conviction rates for rape."


The government's new measures include specialist rape case prosecutors, a review of training for police officers who deal with rape victims, and a review of the training for prosecutors on cases involving rape and sexual offences.

They also propose seeking a second opinion from a specialist prosecution service lawyer on all decisions to drop a rape case or to reduce charges.

The measures are long over-due, says the Rape Crisis Federation, which takes 50,000 calls a year from victims.

Spokeswoman Sandra McNeill said the number of women raped was probably "much higher" than the crime survey found and that more like only one in eight victims report the assaults to police.

Violent partners

"We have all seen the way rape victims are treated in court - it is not part of the healing process," she said.


"The police and Crime Prosecution Service have to build up expertise to deal with rape cases and victims need more support."

The federation called on the government to establish a timetable for the implementation of its new measures.

The new figures were taken from a survey of 7,000 women conducted for the British Crime Survey.

It found that of the rapes, 56% were committed by current or former partners, while only 8% were carried out by strangers.

More than half the assaults took place in the victim's home and those committed by partners were more violent than those at the hands of strangers.

 

[Julez]

ooops, thanxs doc...

 

[Jimsbbc]

I don't see how anyone could defile a woman and break her spirit like that.

 

[smokinghawk]

Um, I hate to freak anyone out, but here in the U.S. the stats are one in five adult women. Not one in 20. If we were 1:20, we'd be CELEBRATING.

 

[the nature boy]

you know, we haven't reached full equality the statistics for women on men rapes need to rise dramatically.

ok, so that wasn't called for.

 

[greenday]

If I was a girl in the UK, I would move the hell out, that's the only solution, unless you want to castrate all the UK men.

 

[curling]

The UK needs to bring back guns and then those rapist would respect women a wee bit more. Gun free societies(except in Heaven) do not work.

 

[Warik]

Um, I hate to freak anyone out, but here in the U.S. the stats are one in five adult women. Not one in 20. If we were 1:20, we'd be CELEBRATING.

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

There were 90,186 rapes in the U.S. in 2000. Let's assume that all of those rapes were a) women and b) adult, so we're being very conservative here and this would actually help your argument. Now, you say 1 in 5? Ok... that means that there are roughly 451,000 adult women in the United States... yep... in a country with a population over 250 million. No wonder we have homosexuals popping up everywhere today... 99.8% of the population is male!!!

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

If you go here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm and read a bit you'll see that that "the HIGHEST rate of forcible rape recorded by law enforcement agencies since 1976 was 84 per 100,000 women or about 1 forcible rape for every 1,200 women - and by 1995 the rate had decreased more than 14%"

1 in 1,200 eh? I see you are off by, oh, A ZILLION TIMES.

Also:

* About 1 in 16 (6%) of rape/sexual assault victims say there was a gun present.

* 60% of rape/sexual assault incidents occur at home, friend's home, relative/neighbor's home.

* Nearly 1/3 of rapes analyzed across 3 states took place between Midnight and 4AM.

* 80% of rapes involve physical force only.

What does this all mean, boys and girls? The question posed here is: "what to do?"

1) A big chunk of rapes took place in a small 4 hour period. Suggestion? DON'T GO OUT WHERE THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AT 2-3 IN THE MORNING!!! - COMMON SENSE

2) Over 70% of rapes are perpetrated by a nonstranger, and 60% of rapes occur in a residence of some sort. Suggestion? DON'T ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH SHIT. DON'T INVITE SHIT TO YOUR HOUSE. DON'T GO TO SHIT'S HOUSE!!!!!! - COMMON SENSE

3) 80% of rapes involve physical force only. Only 6% of rape victims say the attacker had a gun. I don't think I need to be witty here. CARRY A FUCKING GUN IF YOU LIVE IN A SHITTY NEIGHBORHOOD OR GO OUT ALONE!!! If a guy is raping a woman unarmed then chances are he's not there to kill anyone in the first place. Who was the fool who thought up: "oh, if the woman has a gun, the man might use it to kill her!" If the guy had any intention of killing the woman he'd bring a fucking weapon... and if he was going to kill the woman anyway, how is her having a gun going to hurt her? She's going to die anyway, at least she can fight for her life!

People these days have the wrong idea about this kind of shit. You can't rely on the government or local law enforcement to protect you.

LAW ENFORCEMENT = CLEAN UP CREW.

GOVERNMENT = ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY.

When was the last time you read in the paper: "Violent rapist thwarted as police arrive just in the nick of time!"

Headlines are typically: "Woman raped. Cops escort her to hospital. 3 speeding tickets written on the way."

Protect yourselves - nobody else will.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

Gun free societies(except in Heaven) do not work.

Not necessarily. I think in Heaven you have a lot more to worry about than a little gun when you think about misbehaving. Try 1.21 gigawatts of electricity cooking you up instead. =)

-Warik

 

[theoak01]

what ya do is start a club to take back the night,type deal where people patrol the streets ,parks etc watching for suspicious people and try to catch these pricks in the act and then kill them

thats my solution,i imagine many people would volunteer to help as its a worthy cause,i know id help if i was there

 

[Julez]

The UK needs to bring back guns and then those rapist would respect women a wee bit more. Gun free societies(except in Heaven) do not work.

I'm not sure if that would work either. I would like a gun for protection but at the back of my mind I'm thinking more guns = more gun crime.

I do like the idea of those stun guns though

 

[curling]

I'm not sure if that would work either. I would like a gun for protection but at the back of my mind I'm thinking more guns = more gun crime.

I do like the idea of those stun guns though

No, becuause criminals are pussies and cowards if they think chick is packing they wouldn't bother her. Guns equalize people no matter what the size or gender.

 

[Warik]

I would like a gun for protection but at the back of my mind I'm thinking more guns = more gun crime.

Oh I don't dispute that at all. More guns of course = more gun crime. However, would you be willing to allow more guns if it meant that the drop in other crime would FAR outweigh the increase in gun crime?

What would you prefer? An additional 10,000 rapes, 5,000 murders, 20,000 burglaries, etc... all because you don't like the idea of 1,000 new gun crimes showing up? Obviously these numbers are just pulled out of the air, but I wouldn't be surprised if you did a little research and found that whenever a state makes it easier for its citizens to get their hands on a handgun, the drop in "other" crime dwarfs the increase in gun crime.

-Warik

 

[Prometheus]

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

excellent post.

you have to be careful with "statistics" -- especially when they are not readily verifiable and involve such an emotional subject.

for ex. I remember one "report" that concluded that somewhere above 90% of American children were the victims of "sexual harassment" before they graduated high school -- a number like that doesn't correlate with common sense and experience.

turns out the "researchers" had included things like "being teased" and "being stared at" in the definition of "sexual harassment" -- this type of cry-wolf sensationalism not only frightens people unnecessarily but it's an insult to those who have suffered REAL harassment.

 

[danielson]

the laws that seem to be present in the uk are fucked up to begin with and will be fucked up when finished

rape sucks ass. period. but, a woman or man screaming rape is not enugh to convict....fairly obviously there has to be some proof this rape took place doesnt there? except when the rape is reported it can be long after the incident took place reducing evidence. convictions can;t be made on no proof. yet it is a recognised problem in law that cases make their way to court when there is no legal chance of them winning.

examples include a woman who was 'too drunk by her own admisson to remember what she had done the previous night, but was sure she didnt consent to sex'.........wtf?!? do inerbriated people get to give evidence? no. so someone who admits going with someone to their hotel room at night, stripping and jumping ion bed OF THEIR own free will and then waking up the next morning not remembering what quite happened gets her case put thru and the guys name is dragged thru the gutter

another case. women + another couple (bf and gf) meet up with famous person. they go to his hotel room. couple leaves for bedroom. she strips, kisses him, lets him have sex, but halfway thru says no i dont wanna cheat on my bf. after a bit of frustration ion his part he stops. next morning she leaves after eating breakfast with him and is seen smiling and joking with himand gives him a goodbye kiss, captured by CCTV. yet this made it to court wtf?!?

the statistics IMHO are artificial because of this, judges and police have spoke up about it too albeit quietly. yet i know due to masses of public opinion laws are going to be passed that allow rape to either be exploited as a sure fire way of landing someone in prison, or building up the hopes of someone who has no case in the first place.

its sad but i think its the truth. it also is SERIOUSLY worryin that our society could make 1/20 of men a potential rapist, and that 1/20 of women have to go through that

 

[circusgirl]

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

There were 90,186 rapes in the U.S. in 2000. Let's assume that all of those rapes were a) women and b) adult, so we're being very conservative here and this would actually help your argument. Now, you say 1 in 5? Ok... that means that there are roughly 451,000 adult women in the United States... yep... in a country with a population over 250 million. No wonder we have homosexuals popping up everywhere today... 99.8% of the population is male!!!

Again Warik jumps in to show his ignorance on yet another matter. Most rapes go unreported. The UK survey asked women if they had been raped, and did not go by official statistics. A similar survey carried out in Ireland some years ago revealed that 12% of children (male and female) were sexually molested in some manner before the age of 18. Most of them never reported the crime.

[
1) A big chunk of rapes took place in a small 4 hour period. Suggestion? DON'T GO OUT WHERE THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AT 2-3 IN THE MORNING!!! - COMMON SENSE

2) Over 70% of rapes are perpetrated by a nonstranger, and 60% of rapes occur in a residence of some sort. Suggestion? DON'T ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH SHIT. DON'T INVITE SHIT TO YOUR HOUSE. DON'T GO TO SHIT'S HOUSE!!!!!! - COMMON SENSE

3) 80% of rapes involve physical force only. Only 6% of rape victims say the attacker had a gun. I don't think I need to be witty here. CARRY A FUCKING GUN IF YOU LIVE IN A SHITTY NEIGHBORHOOD OR GO OUT ALONE!!! If a guy is raping a woman unarmed then chances are he's not there to kill anyone in the first place. Who was the fool who thought up: "oh, if the woman has a gun, the man might use it to kill her!" If the guy had any intention of killing the woman he'd bring a fucking weapon... and if he was going to kill the woman anyway, how is her having a gun going to hurt her? She's going to die anyway, at least she can fight for her life!

People these days have the wrong idea about this kind of shit. You can't rely on the government or local law enforcement to protect you.

Of course Warik, if a woman is raped, then obviously, she must have done something to invite it eh? I mean, there's no such thing as random violent crime?

I'm real sick of the "blame the victim" mentality. So you folks can all go round and think there's some kind of unwritten "rules" which if you follow you will be just fine. Well, that's complete fucking bullshit.

I know several women who were raped. One of them was raped on the way home from her first date when she was 16. She was thinking, "is he going to kiss me goodnight before he laves me at my parets' house?", instead, he raped and mulitated her, now she can never have sex or have children.

Another was attacked as she got off her bus home from her job as a restaurant waitress. Sure, it's maybe not super-safe to walk around at night, but not everyone has that choice.

Another was raped by a man who had been a good friend of her family for 5 YEARS. He had never given the slightest hint to anyone that there was anything weird about him. No, you can't tell at 50 yards who is potential rapist and who is not. The scariest are those who act normal but turn out to be deranged psychos underneath it. They are, alas, every adapt at hiding their true nature in order to get what they want.

Another girl was raped as she staggered drunk out of a club, age 18 (legal drinking age here). No doubt you will reply and say well, if she got drunk, she asked for it. Oh really? Why is it that if the sale of alcohol is legal a woman can't go out and drink just like a guy? Especially in a club, which is built for the purpose of late drinking. She never even got to identify him, it happened so fast.

A guy tried to rape me at a bus stop early in the morning as I was waiting to get the bus to class at my university. I ran away before he caught me.

etc etc etc etc

The only two reported rapes I know of was the girl who was coming home from the restaurant, and that resulted in an arrest. Another friend reported her psycho boyfriend to the police after he broke 4 of her ribs and raped her at knifepoint (she was 16) BUT he put on a nice convincing performance for the cops and implied that it was her family who had broken her ribs and the police believed him, told her to fuck off and stop bothering them. He is still stalking her and has attacked her at least once more after that but she didn't report it, having learned her lesson the first time.

There are no "rules" folks. Shit can and will happen to you whe you least expect it. You can take steps to make yourself less of a vulnerable target, but that doesn't mean you will be able to fend off attack. How about when you are working late at the office? Are the security at your building trained to deal with a violent assailant or intruder? What about the nice friendly neighbour who offers your daughter a lift to basketball practice with his own kids, only to molest her behind the practice ground along with his own daughter without your knowledge? How about your daughter's or sister's prom date? You can't stay away from men 100% of the time.

Sure, I could live a lifestyle where I never dated anyone ever, never went out, never went to work or school, but I don't plan on changing my name to Howard Hughes any time soon. And if I do get attacked, which I could, any day, there will be some jackass pointing the finger and saying I deserved it because I dared to walk around after closing time/go to work/wear a short skirt/live my life.

It is just as naive to think that you can prevent all violence. Also, read up on defending against a surprise violent attack. It might surprise you. www.24fightingchickens.com is a good place to start.

Now, I train to defend myself, but I am not naive enough to think that I can 100% defend myself at all times. Implying that anyone who does suffer violent crime is somehow to blame is just stupid.

 

[fallenangel]

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

There were 90,186 rapes in the U.S. in 2000. Let's assume that all of those rapes were a) women and b) adult, so we're being very conservative here and this would actually help your argument. Now, you say 1 in 5? Ok... that means that there are roughly 451,000 adult women in the United States... yep... in a country with a population over 250 million. No wonder we have homosexuals popping up everywhere today... 99.8% of the population is male!!!

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

If you go here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm and read a bit you'll see that that "the HIGHEST rate of forcible rape recorded by law enforcement agencies since 1976 was 84 per 100,000 women or about 1 forcible rape for every 1,200 women - and by 1995 the rate had decreased more than 14%"

1 in 1,200 eh? I see you are off by, oh, A ZILLION TIMES.

Also:

* About 1 in 16 (6%) of rape/sexual assault victims say there was a gun present.

* 60% of rape/sexual assault incidents occur at home, friend's home, relative/neighbor's home.

* Nearly 1/3 of rapes analyzed across 3 states took place between Midnight and 4AM.

* 80% of rapes involve physical force only.

What does this all mean, boys and girls? The question posed here is: "what to do?"

1) A big chunk of rapes took place in a small 4 hour period. Suggestion? DON'T GO OUT WHERE THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AT 2-3 IN THE MORNING!!! - COMMON SENSE

2) Over 70% of rapes are perpetrated by a nonstranger, and 60% of rapes occur in a residence of some sort. Suggestion? DON'T ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH SHIT. DON'T INVITE SHIT TO YOUR HOUSE. DON'T GO TO SHIT'S HOUSE!!!!!! - COMMON SENSE

3) 80% of rapes involve physical force only. Only 6% of rape victims say the attacker had a gun. I don't think I need to be witty here. CARRY A FUCKING GUN IF YOU LIVE IN A SHITTY NEIGHBORHOOD OR GO OUT ALONE!!! If a guy is raping a woman unarmed then chances are he's not there to kill anyone in the first place. Who was the fool who thought up: "oh, if the woman has a gun, the man might use it to kill her!" If the guy had any intention of killing the woman he'd bring a fucking weapon... and if he was going to kill the woman anyway, how is her having a gun going to hurt her? She's going to die anyway, at least she can fight for her life!

People these days have the wrong idea about this kind of shit. You can't rely on the government or local law enforcement to protect you.

LAW ENFORCEMENT = CLEAN UP CREW.

GOVERNMENT = ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY.

When was the last time you read in the paper: "Violent rapist thwarted as police arrive just in the nick of time!"

Headlines are typically: "Woman raped. Cops escort her to hospital. 3 speeding tickets written on the way."

Protect yourselves - nobody else will.

-Warik


__________________
"You shall be transformed into a great warrior."

BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL!

http://www.he-man.org/news_images/motu_trailer.rm


"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."


Not really as the UK report comes off statisitcs taken from a crime survey not actually reported rapes therefore that makes the argument about the number of reported rapes redundant

 

[Warik]

Again Warik jumps in to show his ignorance on yet another matter. Most rapes go unreported.

I'm ignorant because I'm going by statistics? Wow - that's a new one. "Most" rapes, eh? What does "most" mean? Does that mean we should double that 90,000 figure? Triple? You're being quite vague there, yet still calling me ignorant. You can't just say: "no, you're wrong, most rapes go unreported" and be done there. Try again.

The UK survey asked women if they had been raped, and did not go by official statistics.

And we're supposed to accept a survey as truth and ignore official statistics, right? Very scientific there. I'll respond to your other comments since there's not much to debate up here. Your claims are just so damn bullet-proof.

Of course Warik, if a woman is raped, then obviously, she must have done something to invite it eh? I mean, there's no such thing as random violent crime?

I'm real sick of the "blame the victim" mentality. So you folks can all go round and think there's some kind of unwritten "rules" which if you follow you will be just fine. Well, that's complete fucking bullshit.

Ahhh the typical rape-related female response. Sorry circusgirl, but I'm not the typical "if a woman was raped, then she asked for it" male. By definition, rape is sex in which one party did not consent, so I don't see how anyone could be "asking for it" and not consenting at the same time. I'm not laying the blame on the victim, but I'm saying that if the victims behaved a little more intelligently, rape rates could easily be reduced. Of course women will still be raped even if they do everything right, but reducing rapes is better than doing nothing at all.

This reminds me of the Enron scandel. Oh no everyone lost their life savings! Evil Enron! Die Enron! Anyone who did their research wouldn't have put all of their eggs in the Enron basket. Notice how they weren't complaining when the money was coming in. Same shit here. Yeah, let's get drunk, party hard, stay out late, date shitty guys, and not have any problem with it until the day we get raped.

Yep - very responsible there.

I know several women who were raped. One of them was raped on the way home from her first date when she was 16. She was thinking, "is he going to kiss me goodnight before he laves me at my parets' house?", instead, he raped and mulitated her, now she can never have sex or have children.

Another was attacked as she got off her bus home from her job as a restaurant waitress. Sure, it's maybe not super-safe to walk around at night, but not everyone has that choice.

Yes, I understand that, but you are not seeing my point. I am not trying to say that every rape victim is the only party at fault. Some people CANNOT help walking around alone at night or being in a situation in which there is no escape, but seriously, are you trying to tell me that EVERY woman who has ever been raped did EVERYTHING in her power to be as safe as possible before the fact?

Every woman walking around alone at 2 AM has no alternative?

Every woman drunk off her ass has no alternative?

Every woman dating a guy you'd be ashamed to call a friend has no alternative?

Please.

Implying that anyone who does suffer violent crime is somehow to blame is just stupid.

I agree; however, implying that everyone who does suffer a violent crime did not exhibit ANY behavior whatsoever that may have contributed to the event and that the perpetrator is the sole party responsible is just as stupid.

-Warik

 

[circusgirl]

I'm ignorant because I'm going by statistics? Wow - that's a new one. "Most" rapes, eh? What does "most" mean? Does that mean we should double that 90,000 figure? Triple? You're being quite vague there, yet still calling me ignorant. You can't just say: "no, you're wrong, most rapes go unreported" and be done there. Try again.



And we're supposed to accept a survey as truth and ignore official statistics, right? Very scientific there. I'll respond to your other comments since there's not much to debate up here. Your claims are just so damn bullet-proof.

Ignorant because you appear to think that women should not go out at night or go drinking. It is their right to go out at night and go drinking. The stats you quote are those rapes reported to the police. The Rape Crisis Centre here say that the official stats vastly underestimate the prevalence of rape as a crime, and that most rapes go unreported. Go argue with them if you want.

Ahhh the typical rape-related female response. Sorry circusgirl, but I'm not the typical "if a woman was raped, then she asked for it" male. By definition, rape is sex in which one party did not consent, so I don't see how anyone could be "asking for it" and not consenting at the same time. I'm not laying the blame on the victim, but I'm saying that if the victims behaved a little more intelligently, rape rates could easily be reduced. Of course women will still be raped even if they do everything right, but reducing rapes is better than doing nothing at all.

This reminds me of the Enron scandel. Oh no everyone lost their life savings! Evil Enron! Die Enron! Anyone who did their research wouldn't have put all of their eggs in the Enron basket. Notice how they weren't complaining when the money was coming in. Same shit here. Yeah, let's get drunk, party hard, stay out late, date shitty guys, and not have any problem with it until the day we get raped.

You ARE blaming women for being raped here. Why shouldn't a woman get drunk? Party hard? It seems that you are implying that they shouldn't be doing these things. May I remind you that drinking and partying are legal. After all, men can do these things, why is it so wrong for women to do this? I s'pose you're one of these people who'd say "oh, she brought it on herself, she went out drinking/dancing/dating guys therefore she must have deserved it". Wake up, women have the same rights as men. I bet you're one of those brave guys who likes declaring to people who have been attacked or raped that you have "no sympathy" for them like it makes you a better person or something.

Yep - very responsible there.
Yes, I understand that, but you are not seeing my point. I am not trying to say that every rape victim is the only party at fault.

So you are in fact saying that you think that the woman is partly at fault if she, god forbid, goes out DRINKING, after all women should stay home and wash dishes shouldn't they? Then you ARE blaming the woman. Rape is a CRIME. A violent crime at that - why is it that people still insist in trying to find a sneaky way to blame the woman? A woman is NEVER at fault for rape. Ever. She may be guilty of behaving unwisely, or irresponsibly, but this does not in any way make her responsible for the crime. It makes her a tad on the naive and possibly stupid side, maybe, but there are plenty of stupid, naive or unthinking people out there, and this is not a crime.

Some people CANNOT help walking around alone at night or being in a situation in which there is no escape, but seriously, are you trying to tell me that EVERY woman who has ever been raped did EVERYTHING in her power to be as safe as possible before the fact?

Every woman walking around alone at 2 AM has no alternative?

Every woman drunk off her ass has no alternative?

Every woman dating a guy you'd be ashamed to call a friend has no alternative?
[\quote]

Even if they do, what's the difference? Rape is rape is rape. It is a crime. Maybe she exercised bad judgement. That does not make her responsible for the crime. period.

I agree; however, implying that everyone who does suffer a violent crime did not exhibit ANY behavior whatsoever that may have contributed to the event and that the perpetrator is the sole party responsible is just as stupid.

The perpetrator is the sole party responsible. It is the PERPETRATOR who makes the decision to carry out the violent crime. No-one is responsible for the actions of others - we all decide how our environment effects us and how we behave. Rape victims are not in ANY WAY responsible for the BEHAVIOUR of the perpetrators, because the perpetrators were those making the decision to rape or not.

 

[Warik]

Ignorant because you appear to think that women should not go out at night or go drinking. It is their right to go out at night and go drinking. The stats you quote are those rapes reported to the police. The Rape Crisis Centre here say that the official stats vastly underestimate the prevalence of rape as a crime, and that most rapes go unreported. Go argue with them if you want.

Hmm... there seem to be words in my mouth that I did not put there on my own. Very interesting.

You ARE blaming women for being raped here. Why shouldn't a woman get drunk? Party hard? It seems that you are implying that they shouldn't be doing these things. May I remind you that drinking and partying are legal.

Yeah. Taking asprin is legal too, but you don't see me downing 3 bottles whenever I have a headache. Wearing a tuxedo is legal, but you don't see me doing that on a hot Sunday afternoon on the beach. Please don't attack me with the "it's a free country!" argument. Yes, it's a free country, and with that freedom comes responsibility. If someone is out on the street alone at 3 AM, drunk off her ass, and dressed provocatively enough to be confused for an Amazon, then there is a good chance that she is a prime candidate for rape. Does she deserve it? No. Should she be raped? No. Is she asking for it? No. Is she being irresponsible and stupid? I'll let you answer that one.

After all, men can do these things, why is it so wrong for women to do this? I s'pose you're one of these people who'd say "oh, she brought it on herself, she went out drinking/dancing/dating guys therefore she must have deserved it". Wake up, women have the same rights as men. I bet you're one of those brave guys who likes declaring to people who have been attacked or raped that you have "no sympathy" for them like it makes you a better person or something.

yawn... I bet you're wrong. I have the ideal society pictured in my head where a woman can be out at 4 AM, drunk off her ass, high on 30 million drugs, and wearing nothing but a thong bikini and not get raped because everybody else knows that it's wrong to rape people. Unfortunately, we don't live in that society. If men were at as great a risk as women to be raped, then believe me, you wouldn't see as many men participating in that kind of behavior. It's a whole risk-reward thing. It's legal to be walking around at 4 AM. I'm a white guy who can walk around his neighborhood at 4 AM with a big sign that says "mug me!" and nothing will happen. Do you think I would be stupid enough to do that in Downtown or something just because it's legal? Lol... ignorant? Me? Ooook.

So you are in fact saying that you think that the woman is partly at fault if she, god forbid, goes out DRINKING, after all women should stay home and wash dishes shouldn't they? Then you ARE blaming the woman. Rape is a CRIME. A violent crime at that - why is it that people still insist in trying to find a sneaky way to blame the woman? A woman is NEVER at fault for rape. Ever.

Let me guess... you're suggesting that I said that it's always the woman's fault and you can't blame the rapist, right? Have fun trying to validate that statement. Yes, rape is a crime. That's not news to me.

I'm not trying to blame women - I'm just trying to point out that in MANY MANY MANY cases (and the statistics agree with me), rape could have been avoided if the woman had acted more intelligently. If you want to call that blame, fault, or irresponsibility, then choose whichever term is more convenient for you. The fact remains that whichever term you choose, the woman had full control up until the point she was raped and she decided to behave irresponsibly.

She may be guilty of behaving unwisely, or irresponsibly, but this does not in any way make her responsible for the crime.

Holy shit! You mean you actually read some of my post? VERY GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The perpetrator is the sole party responsible. It is the PERPETRATOR who makes the decision to carry out the violent crime. No-one is responsible for the actions of others - we all decide how our environment effects us and how we behave.

Scenario:

There's a ferrocious dog barking at you, but he's chained to the wall. If you get close to the dog, you will be bitten, but if you keep walking, then chances are you won't get bitten. You may get bitten if the dog breaks the chain or gets loose some how, but chances are that you will not be harmed if you take the 2nd course of action.

What do you do?

Oh... let me guess. You walk closer to pet him, then say it's his fault when he bites you. Good job.

Rape victims are not in ANY WAY responsible for the BEHAVIOUR of the perpetrators, because the perpetrators were those making the decision to rape or not.

Keep telling yourself that and maybe the rapes will stop... but just CONSIDER the possibility that MAYBE taking additional common-sense precautions like "don't go out late at night alone" or "don't get drunk off your ass" or "don't associate yourself with bad news" might, JUST MIGHT have a better effect on reducing rape than "rape sucks!"

-Warik

(Note: I do strongly believe in the death penalty for rapists, so don't think I'm taking their sides - I hate them just as much as you do.)

 

[circusgirl]

Hmm... there seem to be words in my mouth that I did not put there on my own. Very interesting.



Yeah. Taking asprin is legal too, but you don't see me downing 3 bottles whenever I have a headache. Wearing a tuxedo is legal, but you don't see me doing that on a hot Sunday afternoon on the beach. Please don't attack me with the "it's a free country!" argument. Yes, it's a free country, and with that freedom comes responsibility. If someone is out on the street alone at 3 AM, drunk off her ass, and dressed provocatively enough to be confused for an Amazon, then there is a good chance that she is a prime candidate for rape. Does she deserve it? No. Should she be raped? No. Is she asking for it? No. Is she being irresponsible and stupid? I'll let you answer that one.

And I suppose you have statistical evidence that in the majority of rape cases, the woman was drunk, high, or provocatively dressed? I want you to tell me where those stats are. Otherwise you appear to be making assumptions that only "that sort of woman" gets attacked. I find that grossly insulting.

I'm not trying to blame women - I'm just trying to point out that in MANY MANY MANY cases (and the statistics agree with me), rape could have been avoided if the woman had acted more intelligently. If you want to call that blame, fault, or irresponsibility, then choose whichever term is more convenient for you. The fact remains that whichever term you choose, the woman had full control up until the point she was raped and she decided to behave irresponsibly.

really? Where do your stats back that up?

Scenario:

There's a ferrocious dog barking at you, but he's chained to the wall. If you get close to the dog, you will be bitten, but if you keep walking, then chances are you won't get bitten. You may get bitten if the dog breaks the chain or gets loose some how, but chances are that you will not be harmed if you take the 2nd course of action.

What do you do?

Oh... let me guess. You walk closer to pet him, then say it's his fault when he bites you. Good job.

A more comparable scenario is, you are doing your daily business, and a large dog runs around the corner and silently launches himself at you. Before you realise it, you are under attack. You do not see an attack comnig at 500 yards. It's not like when 2 guys square up for a fight and there s an exchange of words, pushing etc before the kick the hell outta one another.

Keep telling yourself that and maybe the rapes will stop... but just CONSIDER the possibility that MAYBE taking additional common-sense precautions like "don't go out late at night alone" or "don't get drunk off your ass" or "don't associate yourself with bad news" might, JUST MIGHT have a better effect on reducing rape than "rape sucks!"

Hmm, evidence again regarding alcohol?

(Note: I do strongly believe in the death penalty for rapists, so don't think I'm taking their sides - I hate them just as much as you do.) [/B]

I'm glad we agree on something.

I also agree that the reason so many women are attacked is because due to their (usually) lesser strength, and lack of combat and defense skills, they make easy targets. Yes, it would prevent rapes if women were trained to be aggressive in defending themselves, to have higher self-esteem and learn to listen to gut instincts. Or to learn to use an attacker's strength against them. What I find insulting is your implication that it's women who drink, do drugs, and dress immodestly who get attacked.

 

[Warik]

I'm not going to argue another point-to-point since it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere. We seem to both agree on how rapists should be dealt with, but we seem to disagree on my belief that a greater effort by women to behave more responsibly would reduce rape rates.

Don't misunderstand me here - I'm not saying that ONLY women who get drunk, do drugs, and walk around alone late at night get raped. Every woman is a potential rape victim. No woman is immune to rape, just like no human is immune to contracting the AIDS virus. But think of it this way, who is least likely to contract the AIDS virus?

1) A promiscuous person who consistently has sex without protection.
2) A "selectively sexual" individual who always uses protection.
3) An individual practicing absinence.

Obviously ALL of those 3 individuals are not immune to AIDS (since sex isn't the only way to contract it), but individuals #2 and 3 are at lesser risk than #1.

Now try to apply that analogy to rape. Who is an easier target? A sober woman who is relatively alert to her surroundings, or a drunk-off-her-ass woman bumbling about? A woman walking around with friends or a man, or a woman walking around alone at 3 AM? A woman in the home of her long-time, trustworthy friend, or a woman in the home of her abusive ex/current-boyfriend?

It's common sense here.

No woman is at 0 risk of being raped, but the risk can be reduced by using a little common sense. Even those women who are careful about where they go and what they do late at night can and will be raped, but again, the topic of this thread was how to reduce rape - not stop it

Do you disagree that the ideal female behavior vs. the ill-advised female behavior I described will TYPICALLY put a woman in less danger?

-Warik

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

No woman is at 0 risk of being raped

Dude, have you ever seen Janet Reno???

 

[Warik]

Dude, have you ever seen Janet Reno???

Yes.

I said woman.

Next question?

-Warik

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

LOL

 

[Lao Tzu]

The UK needs to bring back guns and then those rapist would respect women a wee bit more. Gun free societies(except in Heaven) do not work.

america has more guns than any other country on earth. Our rape statistics are also 25% for women. I 'think' they have gone up, 33% women, 25% men have been sexually abused (although i don't consider fondling or something as serious as rape).

If we had a 4% stat we'd throw parties.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

There were 90,186 rapes in the U.S. in 2000. Let's assume that all of those rapes were a) women and b) adult, so we're being very conservative here and this would actually help your argument. Now, you say 1 in 5? Ok... that means that there are roughly 451,000 adult women in the United States... yep... in a country with a population over 250 million. No wonder we have homosexuals popping up everywhere today... 99.8% of the population is male!!!

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

If you go here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm and read a bit you'll see that that "the HIGHEST rate of forcible rape recorded by law enforcement agencies since 1976 was 84 per 100,000 women or about 1 forcible rape for every 1,200 women - and by 1995 the rate had decreased more than 14%"

1 in 1,200 eh? I see you are off by, oh, A ZILLION TIMES.

Also:

* About 1 in 16 (6%) of rape/sexual assault victims say there was a gun present.

* 60% of rape/sexual assault incidents occur at home, friend's home, relative/neighbor's home.

* Nearly 1/3 of rapes analyzed across 3 states took place between Midnight and 4AM.

* 80% of rapes involve physical force only.

What does this all mean, boys and girls? The question posed here is: "what to do?"

1) A big chunk of rapes took place in a small 4 hour period. Suggestion? DON'T GO OUT WHERE THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AT 2-3 IN THE MORNING!!! - COMMON SENSE

2) Over 70% of rapes are perpetrated by a nonstranger, and 60% of rapes occur in a residence of some sort. Suggestion? DON'T ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH SHIT. DON'T INVITE SHIT TO YOUR HOUSE. DON'T GO TO SHIT'S HOUSE!!!!!! - COMMON SENSE

3) 80% of rapes involve physical force only. Only 6% of rape victims say the attacker had a gun. I don't think I need to be witty here. CARRY A FUCKING GUN IF YOU LIVE IN A SHITTY NEIGHBORHOOD OR GO OUT ALONE!!! If a guy is raping a woman unarmed then chances are he's not there to kill anyone in the first place. Who was the fool who thought up: "oh, if the woman has a gun, the man might use it to kill her!" If the guy had any intention of killing the woman he'd bring a fucking weapon... and if he was going to kill the woman anyway, how is her having a gun going to hurt her? She's going to die anyway, at least she can fight for her life!

People these days have the wrong idea about this kind of shit. You can't rely on the government or local law enforcement to protect you.

LAW ENFORCEMENT = CLEAN UP CREW.

GOVERNMENT = ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY.

When was the last time you read in the paper: "Violent rapist thwarted as police arrive just in the nick of time!"

Headlines are typically: "Woman raped. Cops escort her to hospital. 3 speeding tickets written on the way."

Protect yourselves - nobody else will.

-Warik

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics

http://ub-counseling.buffalo.edu/violenceoverview.shtml

Date and acquaintance rape is quite prevalent on campuses. One in four college women has been raped; that is, has been forced, physically or verbally, actively or implicitly, to engage in sexual activity. A 1985 study revealed that ninety percent of college rape survivors knew their attacker before the incident. Another survey found that one in fifteen college men admitted to having forced a woman into sex.

http://www.newbeginningsnh.org/html/dv_sa.html

An estimated 683,000 adult American women are forcibly raped each year. Every minute in the United States there are 1.3 forcible rapes of adult women; 78 women are forcibly raped each hour. Every day, 1,871 women are forcibly raped, equal to 56,916 forcible rapes each month. (National Victim Center and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, Rape in America.- A Report to the Nation. 1992).

 

[Lao Tzu]

my posts were made before i saw wariks. I don't know what the real statistics are. Justice dept. says 8%

 

[circusgirl]

[Now try to apply that analogy to rape. Who is an easier target? A sober woman who is relatively alert to her surroundings, or a drunk-off-her-ass woman bumbling about? A woman walking around with friends or a man, or a woman walking around alone at 3 AM? A woman in the home of her long-time, trustworthy friend, or a woman in the home of her abusive ex/current-boyfriend?

It's common sense here.

Once again, do you have PROOF that alcohol or drugs were involved (as in the woman being high or drunk) in the majority of rape cases?

Your point is irrelevant because I think if you do a little more research you will find that most rape victims were not drunk, high or wearing "thong bikinis" as you put it. Making your "advice" a complete waste of time.

Do you disagree that the ideal female behavior vs. the ill-advised female behavior I described will TYPICALLY put a woman in less danger?

I don't think it makes much of a difference, given that most women are raped by someone they know, usually in their own home or in their car. I've never heard a correlation between rape victims and alcohol/drug intoxication. Can you demonstrate such a connection?

Now, regarding self defense and weapons training for EVERY woman, I think we are in agreement....

 

[smokinghawk]

Where the fuck did you get your stats? They are not even REMOTELY in the ballpark.

There were 90,186 rapes in the U.S. in 2000. Let's assume that all of those rapes were a) women and b) adult, so we're being very conservative here and this would actually help your argument. Now, you say 1 in 5? Ok... that means that there are roughly 451,000 adult women in the United States... yep... in a country with a population over 250 million. No wonder we have homosexuals popping up everywhere today... 99.8% of the population is male!!!

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

If you go here: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm and read a bit you'll see that that "the HIGHEST rate of forcible rape recorded by law enforcement agencies since 1976 was 84 per 100,000 women or about 1 forcible rape for every 1,200 women - and by 1995 the rate had decreased more than 14%"

1 in 1,200 eh? I see you are off by, oh, A ZILLION TIMES.

Also:

* About 1 in 16 (6%) of rape/sexual assault victims say there was a gun present.

* 60% of rape/sexual assault incidents occur at home, friend's home, relative/neighbor's home.

* Nearly 1/3 of rapes analyzed across 3 states took place between Midnight and 4AM.

* 80% of rapes involve physical force only.

What does this all mean, boys and girls? The question posed here is: "what to do?"

1) A big chunk of rapes took place in a small 4 hour period. Suggestion? DON'T GO OUT WHERE THERE AREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND AT 2-3 IN THE MORNING!!! - COMMON SENSE

2) Over 70% of rapes are perpetrated by a nonstranger, and 60% of rapes occur in a residence of some sort. Suggestion? DON'T ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH SHIT. DON'T INVITE SHIT TO YOUR HOUSE. DON'T GO TO SHIT'S HOUSE!!!!!! - COMMON SENSE

3) 80% of rapes involve physical force only. Only 6% of rape victims say the attacker had a gun. I don't think I need to be witty here. CARRY A FUCKING GUN IF YOU LIVE IN A SHITTY NEIGHBORHOOD OR GO OUT ALONE!!! If a guy is raping a woman unarmed then chances are he's not there to kill anyone in the first place. Who was the fool who thought up: "oh, if the woman has a gun, the man might use it to kill her!" If the guy had any intention of killing the woman he'd bring a fucking weapon... and if he was going to kill the woman anyway, how is her having a gun going to hurt her? She's going to die anyway, at least she can fight for her life!


-Warik

Okay, I'm not sure why you posted all these stats about when guns are present, or when rapes happened...I can't see how they pertain to the discussion about how *many* rapes actually happen. Your first mistake is assuming that the nmuber of rapes REPORTED is the same as the number of rapes that HAPPENED ("There were X rapes in 2000"). You jhave to further than that and incorporae figures from the Crime Victimization Survey to determine the under-reporting rate of rape, which the FBI has determined to be about 10-16% (in other words, about 7-10 times as many rapes actually happen as ar e reported).


The original statement that 1 in 5 women college-age and older have been raped or sexually assaulted came form a 1985 study by Mary Koss for MS Magazine. This is a controversial study for two reasons:
First, critics argued that the questions were ambiguous, and might permit any woman who’d regretted consensual sex afterwards to identify the intercourse as “rape.”
Second, the 1-in-5 statistic did not match the number of actual reported rapes during that time. This isn’t unusual, since we know that most rapes aren’t reported.

However, subsequent studies have reinforced findings of 1-in-5, or even 1-in-4. Here are some additional studies that have verified the 1-in-4 conclusion:

 “Nearly one-fifth of women (18 percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives; one in 33 men (3 percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives.” (National Institute of Justice and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, November 1998.)

 The U.S. National Crime Victimization Survey of 1995 found that 432,000 women reported having been victims of “rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.” (Maguire, K. and A.L. Pastore. Soucrebook of Criminal Justice Statistics. Washington, D.C.: US dept. of Justice, 1995.) The CVS of 1998 found that the number of women reporting they have been raped had increased to 680,000.
 In the 1990’s it was found that 20% of college women in a controlled randomized study reported that at some point in their lives they had “been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against their will.” (Douglas, K.A., et. al. “Results from the 1995 National College Health Risk Behavior Survey.” Journal of American College Health, 46 (1`997): 55-66.)
 Seventy percent of rape survivors physically resisted when the assault became violent. (Warshaw, R. I Never Called it Rape. New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1994.)
 The Crime Victimization Surveys used by the Bureau of Justice Statistics has found repeatedly that only 10-16% of assaults which conform to the legal definitions of rape were reported. See for example: Federal Bureau of Investigation. Uniform Crime Reports. Washington, D.C.” United States Dept. of Justice, 1995. And: Maguire, K. and A.L. Pastore. Soucrebook of Criminal Justice Statistics. Washington, D.C.: US dept. of Justice, 1995.
 Over ninety-two percent of rape reports are not false; 2-8% are found to be false accusations. (Federal Bureau of Investigation. Uniform Crime Reports. Washington, D.C.” United States Dept. of Justice, 1995)



So there. I did my research and did it well.