Satch vs Carth - Fraud Alert!

[George Spellwin]

Members,

We are thinking about having a Mr. Elite Fitness.com contest in the future with different cash prizes. Best overall, most improved, masters, etc. How can we structure it so that you, our members, get to vote, and still have voting remain fair.

I thought both Satch and Carth looked great, but creating alters to vote is too easy and voting fraud did occur.

 

[needsize]

maybe people voting need to have been here a certain length of time, certain number of posts, etc

 

[Mr.X]

that's just wrong...why cheat..jesus.

 

[Indy]

Members,

We are thinking about having a Mr. Elite Fitness.com contest in the future with different cash prizes. Best overall, most improved, masters, etc. How can we structure it so that you, our members, get to vote, and still have voting remain fair.

I thought both Satch and Carth looked great, but creating alters to vote is too easy and voting fraud did occur.

that's easy George, voting done by platinum members only.....if others want to vote they can at least spring for a 3 month platty membership, then it's a win win, elite gets the biz, voting is fare, and the members get the benefits of being plattys for the term.

 

[gettinkrunkd]

that's just wrong...why cheat..jesus.

i agree....its only a game focker!

 

[Synpax]

that's easy George, voting done by platinum members only.....if others want to vote they can at least spring for a 3 month platty membership, then it's a win win, elite gets the biz, voting is fare, and the members get the benefits of being plattys for the term.

I disagree with that because you can use K to make more platinum members. I also disagree because I'm not platinum myself but am a real person.

A better method would be to limit voting to accounts that are of a certain age, post count, and karma. It would be harder to make alts easily. So you must be on for 4 months, have 500 posts, and have 1000 karma. It might be easy to get one or two of those, but difficult to get all three.

 

[Indy]

I disagree with that because you can use K to make more platinum members. I also disagree because I'm not platinum myself but am a real person.

A better method would be to limit voting to accounts that are of a certain age, post count, and karma. It would be harder to make alts easily. So you must be on for 4 months, have 500 posts, and have 1000 karma. It might be easy to get one or two of those, but difficult to get all three.

I know TONS will disagree, but limiting voting to platty's is FAR easier than by age or otherways, get's complicated from a programming standpoint.....also since platinum requires $$$$'s alt's will be almost non existent..

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

I know TONS will disagree, but limiting voting to platty's is FAR easier than by age or otherways, get's complicated from a programming standpoint.....also since platinum requires $$$$'s alt's will be almost non existent..

platty's only sounds good...non plats pay up

 

[Dial_tone]

that's just wrong...why cheat..jesus.

cuz some of us live our whole lives for the Internet.

 

[George Spellwin]

I disagree with that because you can use K to make more platinum members. I also disagree because I'm not platinum myself but am a real person.

A better method would be to limit voting to accounts that are of a certain age, post count, and karma. It would be harder to make alts easily. So you must be on for 4 months, have 500 posts, and have 1000 karma. It might be easy to get one or two of those, but difficult to get all three.

Some good points. We could actually restrict voting to only Paying Plats, with a minimum 500 number of posts, 1000 Karma, and a membership of at least 60 days for example.

 

[George Spellwin]

that's just wrong...why cheat..jesus.

I agree, but when cash is involved it is sure to happen - especially when it happens when none is involved.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

restrict voting to only Paying Plats, with a minimum 500 number of posts, 1000 Karma

NOOOOOO you'd be leaving out the dudes who lost their wad in the bookie forum!

 

[musclemuscle]

NOOOOOO you'd be leaving out the dudes who lost their wad in the bookie forum!

LOL


sounds like a good idea geroge...would love to be a part of it all

 

[Xtreme_BODY]

I think de mods could be the best judges. If the members are gonna vote there not gonna vote at the best member but at how the like te most..

 

[sparetire]

how bout lower the price of plat and then i'd sign up. i don't have extra cash and what i do have goes to life expenses first, personal and gear/pct. if plat was cheaper like 40$ or less per year, i'd sign up, but not at the current price.

 

[BiG n Natural]

i say make it that you need 100 posts in order to vote plats n non plats alike

 

[Mr.X]

that's easy George, voting done by platinum members only.....if others want to vote they can at least spring for a 3 month platty membership, then it's a win win, elite gets the biz, voting is fare, and the members get the benefits of being plattys for the term.

I agree, plat. only voting would be adequate.

 

[will b huge]

Some good points. We could actually restrict voting to only Paying Plats, with a minimum 500 number of posts, 1000 Karma, and a membership of at least 60 days for example.

I agree 100%....also, maybe only 1 vote per IP too.....if 2 plats share the same household----thats too bad---only 1 per household/IP......

Then, to alter voting, someone has to go to a local library, pay for a membership, be a Plat for 60 days, make 500 posts and have 1000 karma.....

Another step.....maybe......


GREAT IDEA though GEORGE!!!

 

[paridhm]

I agree 100%....also, maybe only 1 vote per IP too.....if 2 plats share the same household----thats too bad---only 1 per household/IP......

Then, to alter voting, someone has to go to a local library, pay for a membership, be a Plat for 60 days, make 500 posts and have 1000 karma.....

Another step.....maybe......


GREAT IDEA though GEORGE!!!

I was thinking something similar. Would it be of too much expense/trouble to allow only 1 voter per IP address?

 

[Mr.X]

I agree 100%....also, maybe only 1 vote per IP too.....if 2 plats share the same household----thats too bad---only 1 per household/IP......

can't IP limit voting, not in the VB set-up....but limiting to plats. would allow a huge amount of security for voting (not full proof, but helpful)

 

[bw1]

Some good points. We could actually restrict voting to only Paying Plats, with a minimum 500 number of posts, 1000 Karma, and a membership of at least 60 days for example.

This sounds like a good plan. Can't believe we actually had people cheating, give me a break

 

[Smokescreen]

cuz some of us live our whole lives for the Internet.

 

[Singleton]

votes for users older than 1 year. non-plats can vote too.

 

[x_muscle]

I have better idea why dont stach and carth enter a real bb competition. and person who rank better will be the winner?!

 

[riverrock]

Plats only. 1 vote per plat, that simple.

 

[blut wump]

IP address restriction can help but isn't any guarantee of identity. I'm on a variable IP, for example, and it takes me about 20 seconds to have a new IP address by logging off from my ISP and logging back on. You could even have people being unable to vote just because someone else had voted on their current IP.

Post-count and age of account are really all you can go by when cash prizes are up for grabs. Karma doesn't mean much for an alter since the K-store allows people to move it around. Restricting to plats might be worthwhile but it depends on the disparity between the cost of a plat account and the prizes.

Another idea is to drift away from the old one-person-one-vote idea and have weighted votes.

1 point for plat
1 point for having more than X months
1 point for having more than Y posts
1 point for having more than Z Karma
1 point for exceeding X and Y and Z

A veteran plat could then expect a power-5 vote. A newbie non-plat gets no vote. The weighting should much reduce the effect of alter votes. If someone has 'blown their wad' at the bookies then they can opt to vote later when they've re-accrued K.

Edit:
You could even change the value of the various sections. For example:
3 points for plat
2 points for Y posts
1 point for X months
1 point for Z Karma
3 points for exceeding X and Y and Z

This could give 10 for a vet-plat etc. The programming would be near to trivial.

 

[muscleup]

Personally I feel that only long time vets/mods should be able to vote............Hell anyone can buy a plat membership.


I think it would be a good idea for George to handpick a voting panel of vets. Someone who has been here awhile, and not based on a measly post count.... That voting panel changes form contest to contest to ensure that nothing fishy is going on.

 

[21gun]

Plat memberships sound good

 

[chefbone]

I think it's ridiculous that this has caused so much uprising. No one had to cheat. The winner was obvious to all. Stop the madness, PLEASE. I may not know much about actual judging of a BB Competition but even to me the winner was clear.
If it were a sanctioned contest, put on by EF and Jorge Spellmeister, then the mods and Administrators should be involved. If not, let alters vote, let non-plats vote and let the newbies vote.

 

[230lbs]

maybe people voting need to have been here a certain length of time, certain number of posts, etc

Dude...if thats you...and It probably is...your a fuckin monster !!

 

[wayneboard1]

i agree....its only a game focker!

LOL.....Gaylord.

 

[needsize]

Dude...if thats you...and It probably is...your a fuckin monster !!

it is, just posted those pics sunday

 

[kbrkbr]

Sorry to play the spoiled sport, but I just hate these contests. No matter how good everyone's intentions are at the beginning, it inevitably devolves into a bunch of assholes flaming each other and polarizing the membership.

Then again, that's just my humble opinion.

 

[kbrkbr]

I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer that we avoid topics which lead to dissention on the board. For example, I don't discuss my opposition to the war in Iraq, even in the chat room, because we're supposed to be here to support each other through encouragement and shared information. On the other hand, I happily start a thread congratulating Bicepts101 for his selfless service to our country in Iraq because it's the kind of post that brings us all together. Maybe it's my advanced age, but I just want peace on the board. I want us all working together, and when members who are using androgens start competing against each other, things just always seem to turn ugly.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[satchboogie]

yeah i been seeing way too many 'SATCH HATERS' lately under new handles registered in june and july..

no doubt in my mind the haters double posted against me.
but its all good..
carth still looked better and got the best of me!

just a shame as i told all my close buddies to vote for the better man NOT the favorite.

 

[havenlock]

What type of contests are we talking about here?

 

[wutangnomo]

Why plat only?

You should also allow non-plat members the privilege of voting. A good way to weed out non-plat fakes is to have them be at least one year old with over 1000 posts.

 

[Smokescreen]

yeah i been seeing way too many 'SATCH HATERS' lately under new handles registered in june and july..

no doubt in my mind the haters double posted against me.
but its all good..
carth still looked better and got the best of me!

just a shame as i told all my close buddies to vote for the better man NOT the favorite.

Are you implying that " I " was or is ( whichever way you want to look at it ) the favorite???

If you answer is yes. Trust me bro! I really highly doubt it! HIGHLY!!!

 

[Slydog]

it is, just posted those pics sunday

Bro,
U look like you put on 10-15lbs of solid musle from your last pic. Looking good bro, now I have something to shoot for after my show on the 6th. Thanx bro...

Oh yeah as far as this next contest is concerned, some of the most knowledgible/stand up guys on this board are non-plat members. But whatever!!!! Its your world Georgy I'm just trying to get a nut.
Oh yeah, before you guys call me a cheap skate I'll have you know I utilize everybook George sells on this board and I use all of our sources and advertisers.

 

[reigninghard]

Are you implying that " I " was or is ( whichever way you want to look at it ) the favorite???

If you answer is yes. Trust me bro! I really highly doubt it! HIGHLY!!!

You are dense

 

[gjohnson5]

carth still looked better and got the best of me!

Why are we talking about doing a recount when Satch has publicly said the above?

That sounds like a concession to me.

 

[Smokescreen]

You are dense

Care to elaborate?

 

[reigninghard]

Care to elaborate?

Hey bor, I'm not trying to be an asshole..I am probably just frustrated, as well as many others here, with some of the posts you and satch have exchanged. Here it seems to me he was considering himself the favorite and even though you won hands down you still seem to want the confrontation. If I am wrong, so be it. I still have respect for both of ya because of the hard work you guys obviously have put in. whether it matters to you or not, and it really shouldn't, you are losing some of the respect from others. Word of advice..let it go. Good Luck and this is just my .02

 

[wetback]

cuz some of us live our whole lives for the Internet.

Well said !

 

[Smokescreen]

Hey bor, I'm not trying to be an asshole..I am probably just frustrated, as well as many others here, with some of the posts you and satch have exchanged. Here it seems to me he was considering himself the favorite and even though you won hands down you still seem to want the confrontation. If I am wrong, so be it. I still have respect for both of ya because of the hard work you guys obviously have put in. whether it matters to you or not, and it really shouldn't, you are losing some of the respect from others. Word of advice..let it go. Good Luck and this is just my .02

OK!

First off you are a newbie. Nothing wrong with that. No disrespect on my part. But really! Lay off bro. You have NO idea what you are saying. This is between me and Satch. He knows what I mean by what I said. We have discussed that many issue many times in private. Relax bro! All is mad cool between Satch and I. We have come to an agreement.

There is no beef between us. Let it go! Shit died out a few days ago!

 

[Illuminati]

Some good points. We could actually restrict voting to only Paying Plats, with a minimum 500 number of posts, 1000 Karma, and a membership of at least 60 days for example.

why restrict it to a certain number of posts? it isn't too hard to get on here, post whore, and get the post count way up.

 

[reigninghard]

OK!

First off you are a newbie. Nothing wrong with that. No disrespect on my part. But really! Lay off bro. You have NO idea what you are saying. This is between me and Satch. He knows what I mean by what I said. We have discussed that many issue many times in private. Relax bro! All is mad cool between Satch and I. We have come to an agreement.

There is no beef between us. Let it go! Shit died out a few days ago!

Fair enough..I've made some quick bros and have gotten involved in this riff for a while and have enjoyed seeing you guys compete. I may be a newbie to the board but not the scene. I'm not saying I know it all by any means, but I am no fool. But excuse me if I put my nose in where it isn't wanted.

 

[glennds]

boy this thing just keeps getting better. better than a soap opera.

would be curious how many alters voted for satch.

 

[reigninghard]

Now that I have become so opinionated...anyone else want my advice?!......Damn meatheads..LOL! Cya, on my way to the gym...LOL!!!!
Damn bol is exciting! Gained 4 pounds in last 5 days

 

[Lestat]

who created alters? can we get some IP addy confirmation?

 

[thelion2005]

I'm only going to speak for myself on this "Plat" issue.

I spent my money on the site's e-books - a nice bit of change.
Mr. Spellwin afforded me the opportunity to post on the BB's and I try to contribute with value added info. I'm not perfect for dam sure, but I try.

So I'm not a free loader. A lot of very honest contributors to these BB's are not Plat. They should not be excluded from any general voting.

As for the Carth & Satch contest ... I voted once. I wrote to both with my compliments. The end ... no alters or such. I don't want to be lumped into that bucket, please.

My suggestion?
Just like a real contest with 5-7 judges ... with a simple score sheet tabulated across for a winner. Judges should be those most trusted and experienced in real life contests who post here. Begin with one Head Judge and let him or her run the process.

Thank you.

 

[Slyder190]

maybe people voting need to have been here a certain length of time, certain number of posts, etc

Good idea.

 

[wetback]

My suggestion?
Just like a real contest with 5-7 judges ... with a simple score sheet tabulated across for a winner. Judges should be those most trusted and experienced in real life contests who post here. Begin with one Head Judge and let him or her run the process.

Thank you.

One of the wiser ideas..................even if you are a non-plat

 

[trinidad]

My suggestion?
Just like a real contest with 5-7 judges ... with a simple score sheet tabulated across for a winner. Judges should be those most trusted and experienced in real life contests who post here. Begin with one Head Judge and let him or her run the process.

Thank you.

Now there's an idea....a judging panel....I like that idea.

 

[sweed]

5-7 plat judges would be a good idea.... now back to the mr. elitefitness contest... when is it? we could do this every year, that would be sweet. either cash prize and / or plat member ship for a year.
Also where would this contest be located? ( lol)

 

[superqt4u2nv]

boy this thing just keeps getting better. better than a soap opera.

More drama on here then C&C as of late.

 

[gjohnson5]

boy this thing just keeps getting better. better than a soap opera.

would be curious how many alters voted for satch.

I have yet to see anything that defines how many "fraudalent" votes were for Satch and how many were for Carth. Even if there is enough "fraudalent" votes to cover a 3-1 lead , it really doesn't matter

carth still looked better and got the best of me!

just a shame as i told all my close buddies to vote for the better man NOT the favorite.

He admitted that he was beaten and wasn't the better man. So instead of continuing this soap opera , it should end here

 

[krishna]

Why don't the mods just elect elite judges. That way only the official judges' votes will count and there will be no possible way to cheat. The mods themselves could be the judges. Judging should be left to qualified individuals anyway. We need to elect people who are unbiased, fair, and know about bodybuilding competition. I would definitely nominate Needsize, Quadsweep, Radar, Makavelli, etc. There are lots of qualified bro's who have even competed themselves.

 

[borg4902]

Good lord, this is starting to feel like a damn presidential election.

 

[mrp3652]

It should be just a selected group of vets and mods. By saying the amount of posts doesn't mean shit because I barely have any posts yet I've been reading these boards for a while now learning before I just start giving out advise that is half right. And the length of an account means nothing because some people may have created these alters long ago.

 

[Synpax]

Perfect Solution.

Ok - lets start with the premise that George doesn't want to use contest voting as a selling point for Platinum Membership. My goal is to design a system that allows for an accurate choice of winner without requiring plat membership and will, infact, work better than a plat-membership based system.

The solution is to establish a qualified pool of the membership - people who have been around for 4 months+, certain amount of K and certain number of posts an an average of .2 posts a day over the last three months.

And then, at Random, enable voting for x% of that pool. Not only will this limit the effect of alts, but even of there are alts voting, it will evenly distribute them.

This will give us a statistically accurate result. For example, with a 95% confidence index, in a pool of 5000 voters and a random sample enabled for voting of 500, the margin of error will be around 4% (though in practice it will be closer to zero).

I have a lot of polling experience and a stastistical background. This will work well - in fact, I suggest keeping the results "hidden" and running a non-binding, concurrent poll where all in the pool can vote so you can see how close the two will be.

 

[glennds]

More drama on here then C&C as of late.

even more than the young and the restless!

 

[will b huge]

Perfect Solution.

Ok - lets start with the premise that George doesn't want to use contest voting as a selling point for Platinum Membership. My goal is to design a system that allows for an accurate choice of winner without requiring plat membership and will, infact, work better than a plat-membership based system.

The solution is to establish a qualified pool of the membership - people who have been around for 4 months+, certain amount of K and certain number of posts an an average of .2 posts a day over the last three months.

And then, at Random, enable voting for x% of that pool. Not only will this limit the effect of alts, but even of there are alts voting, it will evenly distribute them.





This will give us a statistically accurate result. For example, with a 95% confidence index, in a pool of 5000 voters and a random sample enabled for voting of 500, the margin of error will be around 4% (though in practice it will be closer to zero).

I have a lot of polling experience and a stastistical background. This will work well - in fact, I suggest keeping the results "hidden" and running a non-binding, concurrent poll where all in the pool can vote so you can see how close the two will be.

If FRAUDULANT VOTING WAS NEAR 50%, then your statistical idea WILL NOT WORK whatsoever......

 

[George Spellwin]

Perfect Solution.

Ok - lets start with the premise that George doesn't want to use contest voting as a selling point for Platinum Membership.

I never said that, lol. Where do you think the cash prizes will come from?

 

[will b huge]

I never said that, lol. Where do you think the cash prizes will come from?

From new sponsors (advertising rights)......or cash donations for the good of the EF community......

I'll donate.....

 

[Indy]

I never said that, lol. Where do you think the cash prizes will come from?

and like I pointed out in the first post, platinum members only voting would help pay the cash prizes...

 

[Synpax]

I never said that, lol. Where do you think the cash prizes will come from?

Oh, well. Then please forget my solution.

I would figure entry fees or the sponsorships - sounds like the sponsors would put it up in the way you framed it at the beginning.

 

[Synpax]

If FRAUDULANT VOTING WAS NEAR 50%, then your statistical idea WILL NOT WORK whatsoever......

None of those fraudulant votes would have even made it into the pool - I encourage you to read more carefully.

 

[dr0832]

hahaha are these guys that pathetic that they must cheat on an online contest that means nothing?

 

[bigmann245]

but wait, i just spent the last 3 weeks making alias's so i can win. you guys are screwing it up for me. its all about me you know. i need to win. this is my lifes dream. im even going to post pics of people that arent me to win. im a wiz at photoshop, i can win this. please dont mess this up.

oh, was that out loud? im sorry sometimes my inner voice talks aloud. forget what i said, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

this is funny. i like the drama. this is for fun guys. yea you might win a gift certificate to the AF store (not saying anything bad about that george) but its not like were going for 1 million bucks either.

like Jeff spicoli from fast times at ridgemont high said, "So what Jefferson was saying was "Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." Yeah?"

 

[Smokescreen]

hahaha are these guys that pathetic that they must cheat on an online contest that means nothing?

K!!!!

 

[Smokescreen]

but wait, i just spent the last 3 weeks making alias's so i can win. you guys are screwing it up for me. its all about me you know. i need to win. this is my lifes dream. im even going to post pics of people that arent me to win. im a wiz at photoshop, i can win this. please dont mess this up.

oh, was that out loud? im sorry sometimes my inner voice talks aloud. forget what i said, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

this is funny. i like the drama. this is for fun guys. yea you might win a gift certificate to the AF store (not saying anything bad about that george) but its not like were going for 1 million bucks either.

like Jeff spicoli from fast times at ridgemont high said, "So what Jefferson was saying was "Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." Yeah?"

K!!!!

 

[slat1]

Unless you have Dexter Jackson and Chris Cormier from this years Arnold competing its obvious who the winner is.
When people vote their vote should be seen by everyone. That way you can tell who is playing favorites and who is not. In 90% of the shows it is clear who wins. So if people are voting for the loser they are exposing themselves and their adgenda!