Running vs Walking for fat burning

[Distortion]

I usually run about 2 miles on the weekdays for cardio. It takes me like 14-15 min, my buddy said that it is pretty much worthless because you need to get your heartrate at a certain point and maintain it for like 45 min to burn fat. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Extra_Strong]

what you need to do is get your body temp up.
you can walk for 50miles.. compared to running your 2.
but you could do even better by adding in a sprint.
you should try to reach a peak point where you go all out.
walking is a waste of time. inless you have injury or something.
.
If i were you i would turn that 2miles into 1 really fast one.
and keep trying to get faster..

but ya it has do with getting your body temp up. but he is not getting it as high as you are by running.. you can also cheat a bit.. by say starting out running warm up and get a little faster and a little faster. you will feel your body really warm up. then you can cheat my slowing down and maybe even walking. once you have raised your body temp. when you feel like you are about to cool down start running again ... it is kinda like coasting..
20min is plenty.. if you put out some effert.. like say every 4 minutes run a really really hard minute. then slow it down for min or 2 for rest then work your way back up.. like a cycle... 1 min slow 2 min faster 3 min faster 4 min faster 5 fast as you can.. then 1min slow then 2nd min faster.. go up and down for 20 min...

 

[Synpax]

Your body average temp is around 98.6. Changing this does not affect fat loss.

Fat use is governed by your endocrine system. The body has two sources of energy that the endocrine system can opt for - glycogen and fat. Glycogen is what you use when you do HARD exercises - lifting weights, sprinting, etc. Your body just uses it and it's gone, and when it is totally gone, your body is too tired to use the other souce - fat. Try running 5 miles after sprinting 1 mile.

In races, the goal is to not burn the glycogen until the end, resulting in a 'negative split' (second half faster than the first half). Positive splits (and I have run several) are bad because you went to fast at the start, blew your glycogen, and hurt your overall time.

Your goal is fat loss. Not burning glycogen. Sprinting distances burns less fat than running the same distance at an easy pace. Why? Because you are spending less time actually running. Time is key.

Here's how your body works at various intensities.

Zone 1 (really easy) - Using only fat (and slow twitch muscles)
Zone 2 (moderately easy, conversational pace) - Using more fat (and only slow twitch muscles). Zone 2 maxes out when you are using 100% of the fat your body is capable of metabolizing.
Zone 3 - You are using slow twitch and a hybrid of fast twitch muscles and are using 100% of your fat burning capability and some of your gylcogen.
Zone 4 and 5+ - More and more glycogen.

What zone do you think you can run longest at? Zone 2-5 all burn the same amount of fat, but you can't go Z5c (the highest zone) for more than a cuple minutes at most. And why would you want to go faster than Z2? It will just wear you outt for the gym.

Here's an additional wrinkle - your body, when it starts, is not too quick to metabilize fat and is actually using glycogen for the first 30 minutes or so until it turns on the fat burners. The more often you run, the quicker and faster it will start burning fat.

Know what the most important training event is for most track and distance athletes (other than super short sprinters?) The long run. It is done entierly in Z2 and it conditions the body to metabolize .... wait for it.... FAT more efficiently. As your body learns to metabolize fat faster, the more fat it can use and the faster you can go while still being in Z2.

The driving factor of zones is heart rate. The real way to determine what your Z2, etc., are is to do a VO2 MAx test. This is out of reach for most people. As a serious athlete (I try to be) I've taken one and will be taking another in a few weeks. Basically, they run you on a treadmill with a mask over your face and based on the contents of the breath you exhale, they can determine what fuel source your body is using. Pretty cool, eh?

For you, maybe use this calculator:
http://www.fitzones.com/heartratecalc.htm

Z2 max is where you want to be.

 

[pintoca]

shit synpah that is a really cool post.

I personally go by a simple premise: Go as hard as you can for 45 mins. Do not cut into your duration by going over your limit, so know your limits. They will get better with time.

 

[guest username]

Excellent post Synpax!

 

[squatpuke]

Sticky?

 

[Raw1]

Very good post! - Synapax, just to makes sure im clear on this, For someone like my self who is just getting into serious cardio i need to be sure to do atleast 45 min at a moderate level? I have been doing 35 but it sounds like i need to up that...maybe after i have done it for a while and my body adjust i can go back down to 35min...

Also i want to maintain as much muscle as possable, am i pushing my luck by doing cardio after lifting?-l lift for around 45 min.

 

[BOOEY]

Doesn't it also make a difference if fat is burned vs. glycogen depending on what you eat before doing cardio?

 

[pintoca]

Very good post! - Synapax, just to makes sure im clear on this, For someone like my self who is just getting into serious cardio i need to be sure to do atleast 45 min at a moderate level? I have been doing 35 but it sounds like i need to up that...maybe after i have done it for a while and my body adjust i can go back down to 35min...

Also i want to maintain as much muscle as possable, am i pushing my luck by doing cardio after lifting?-l lift for around 45 min.

that is what I do bro, 45 mins at 75-85% MHR 6 times a week, straight after cardio. The amount of muscle I have lost is negligible when compared to the amount of fat... I've lost about 68lbs in 9 months and close to 4 were muscle

 

[Synpax]

Raw1 - yeah, go for 45. And you are doing it the right way - you already built up to 35 so it's not as though you are doing it out of the blue.

 

[Raw1]

Pintoca That pretty good man! Sounds good Synpax- ill do that... One more thing Does it really make that big of a diffrence if i work out before breakfast? Let me know what you guys think.

 

[texasbrainsandbeef]

damn this is a good thread.

 

[Synpax]

Pintoca That pretty good man! Sounds good Synpax- ill do that... One more thing Does it really make that big of a diffrence if i work out before breakfast? Let me know what you guys think.

Empty stomach is what I've read in a book on the subject but I do not have any science behind that. I can speculate though and see how it makes sense.

Just get a nice protein shake after.

 

[redguru]

Here's a question, may be a stupid one. When you say 75-85% MHR, do you mean 75-85% of the difference between RHR and MHR or 75-85% of absolute MHR?

 

[sublime35]

Here's a question, may be a stupid one. When you say 75-85% MHR, do you mean 75-85% of the difference between RHR and MHR or 75-85% of absolute MHR?

It means 75-80% of MHR.

I have something to add about how high intensity burns more cals from fat and cals. in general. I couldn't find the original article but this site pretty much sums it up.
http://www.health-care-information....low-intensity-training-isn-t-the-best-fo.html

Here's part of it that shows what I'm talking about.

"Low-intensity training burns about 50% fat for energy while high-intensity training burns about 40% fat for energy. This is not a huge difference.

Say, for example, walking for 20 minutes burns 100 calories. Then 50% of 100 calories is 50 fat-calories burned.

Now say 10 minutes of interval training at a high intensity burns 160 calories. Well, 40% of 160 calories is 64 fat-calories burned.

By doing the high-intensity work, you’ve just burned 14 more fat calories in half the time. Starting to sound good? There’s more... "

 

[Synpax]

It means 75-80% of MHR.

I have something to add about how high intensity burns more cals from fat and cals. in general. I couldn't find the original article but this site pretty much sums it up.
http://www.health-care-information....low-intensity-training-isn-t-the-best-fo.html

Here's part of it that shows what I'm talking about.

"Low-intensity training burns about 50% fat for energy while high-intensity training burns about 40% fat for energy. This is not a huge difference.

Say, for example, walking for 20 minutes burns 100 calories. Then 50% of 100 calories is 50 fat-calories burned.

Now say 10 minutes of interval training at a high intensity burns 160 calories. Well, 40% of 160 calories is 64 fat-calories burned.

By doing the high-intensity work, you’ve just burned 14 more fat calories in half the time. Starting to sound good? There’s more... "

I looked at that article and there is no science behind it.

It's simple - your body can only burn, at best, X calories from fat. So why not get your body in that 'zone' and go no faster - so that you can hold that speed for the longest period of time and preserve glycogen for the gym.

I can literally show you the chart from my own V02 Max test showing the types of fuel my body is burning and this is as clear as day. Depending on how an injury resolves, I'll do another one this week and will post it up.

 

[sublime35]

thats awesome. Where can you get that done? Any old doctor or health facility?

 

[Synpax]

At the facilities of an elite training company or maybe at a university with a big phys ed department. In MS, I'd go for the latter. I'm sure the school of one of those big football teams they like down there has a facility.

Costs range from $100+ for tests, but might be cheaper at a uni.

 

[Improvise]

I am the "buddy" that distortion is talking about. I was basically trying to tell him the exact thing that synpax is saying. Your body only burns glyco for the first 15-20 mins of cardio, it is not till after that till you really start to burn fat. For cardio, all I do is 60 minutes of walking intervals at an incline on a treadmill. I do intervals of 3 minutes at the highest incline and no incline. I usually burn about 650 cals doing this and it's simple.

You don't need to wear yourself out by running 2 miles. If you can run for an hour, then good - DO IT, but whats the point when you can burn the same amount of fat by simply getting your heart rate up for a longer period of time?

I work at a club in northern California and we do offer the V02 Test or Metabolic Test. I haven't done it yet but it is the BEST way to do cardio. It costs $150 for the test and we design a 3 month cardio program for you to do. It is easily the best way to do cardio and burn fat.

 

[necr0potenc3]

Know what the most important training event is for most track and distance athletes (other than super short sprinters?) The long run.

funny, what about fartlek and all of it's variations that include high intensity periods with low intensity ones? its also proven that HI/LI periodization brings more anaerobic and aerobic gains than simply one or another (strict) type of training. in addition, atheletes don't train in a single method, they use several programs in a year or so. sticking solely to one thing is stupid

the heart zone for fat loss is 60-70% (not bigger than 75%) of the MHR. and... argh... the usage of fast twitch or slow twitch fibers has nothing to do with the heart rate. its about the intensity applied to the muscle


sorry but you guys have an annoying simplistic view of things. "your body has only two sources of energy" and "the important is how many calories you burn during the exercise" hurt my eyes. the thing about heart rate and fast/slow twitch fibers... =/

I already talk about this whole "burn glycogen or fat" view in the "What should I do to burn fat withouth burning muscles" topic:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=388678

 

[satchboogie]

Your body average temp is around 98.6. Changing this does not affect fat loss.

Fat use is governed by your endocrine system. The body has two sources of energy that the endocrine system can opt for - glycogen and fat. .

wrong!
it also has protein!

 

[necr0potenc3]

true, reminder: the aminoacid pool isnt very useful

 

[thelion2005]

In my opinion, walk...run...bike ... It doesn't really matter if you are trying to burn fat.
Sure, these activities have a purpose, but they don't stand alone. Diet is more important as is (are) muscle building exercise.

I do 15-20 minutes on a reclining bike, set at the highest difficulty level at about a 120 beat pace. It is just a warm up for the real work to follow.

2 hours on the bike wouldn't help if I wasn't eating right.


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427122

 

[mademale]

i lift weights for like at least an hour every day... how is a person that does this also fit in 60 friggin minutes of cardio in everyday. i only do like 15 and i know its not enough cause i have a good amount of bf to lose should i cut down on weight training and start to dedicate myself to cardio or am i burning enough calories during my intense weight training along w/ 15min of cardio?

 

[Improvise]

In my opinion, walk...run...bike ... It doesn't really matter if you are trying to burn fat.
Sure, these activities have a purpose, but they don't stand alone. Diet is more important as is (are) muscle building exercise.

I do 15-20 minutes on a reclining bike, set at the highest difficulty level at about a 120 beat pace. It is just a warm up for the real work to follow.

2 hours on the bike wouldn't help if I wasn't eating right.


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427122

You are right and wrong. Walking, running, biking, swimming, whatever. Doesn't matter what you do as long as you get your heart rate up to your anarobic threshold so you are burning the most of fat while using the least amount of energy so you can workout for a longer period of time.

Obviously, dieting is VERY IMPORTANT. But most of the people on this board are trying to gain muscle mass while reducing body fat. The only way to do this is to INCREASE CALORIES and DO MORE CARDIO.

 

[jasonwilks]

There an interesting cardio article I just read a few days ago, basically it says the more intense the better and low intensity is a waste of time, here it is...

http://www.rippednaturally.com/bodybuilding_cardiovascular_exercise_lose_fat_from_metabolism.html

 

[detroitfire]

wrong!
it also has protein!

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Body only burns protein after it is broken down into blood sugar (gluconeogenesis) same thing that happens to glycogen (glycogeni-something) my 2 cents

 

[detroitfire]

The type of cardio DOES NOT MATTER!!!... Find something that you not so much enjoy but something that you can handle doing and stay CONSISTANT with that level of cardio. Stick to YOUR goals and do not let up. Staying on schedule is the way to do it people. If it is going to be 5 days a week make sure you do it 5 days a week and watch that muscle appear from beneath...Depending on your goals YOU have to figure out what amount of time and how often you must do it to get the results YOU want... Only lost 1/2 lbs week one? Check that diet and maybe bump up that cardio an extra 10 min each day... Week 2 if you ate the same and burned more cals, the lbs shouldve went down... Get your bodyfat tested to make sure the weight you lose is mostly fat... USE the mirror to guide you...Get that IPOD jammin some tunes and get your heart pounding... Did the bodybuilders from the early days sit down with their calculators and figure out their MHR and 220lbs their age yada yada yada... NOPE they worked their asses off ... If you feel warm and your sweating, you know your body is releasing all of those good ol' hormones epi norepi that strip the fat off that ass... Get to work bro's hope my ramble made some sense to someone... Detroit FIRE

 

[biosculpt]

I looked at that article and there is no science behind it.

It's simple - your body can only burn, at best, X calories from fat. So why not get your body in that 'zone' and go no faster - so that you can hold that speed for the longest period of time and preserve glycogen for the gym.

I can literally show you the chart from my own V02 Max test showing the types of fuel my body is burning and this is as clear as day. Depending on how an injury resolves, I'll do another one this week and will post it up.

You seem very knowledgeable in your postings. I just received the green light to start working out again -I got messed up pretty bad in the Marines. My weight has not really fluctuated, I am 6'1" 230, I used to be around 227 lbs but definitley in the single digit body fat range. Do you think I should lift first, then run? I prefer the elliptical machiine because I was laid up for a bit.
I have good muscle memory and respond well to training, but it is depressing going back into the gym and knowing I have such a ong road ahead of me.
Any input would be appreciated.
Jim

 

[Synpax]

Sorry for not responding. Don't know if you are still here or not.

You are 230, 6'1", and single digits for body fat? Damn.

What is your goal?

 

[osiris2k6]

I prefer wind sprints. They are shorter (20 - 30 mins) and I am loosing weight even though I haven't change my diet much.

 

[gjohnson5]

Both...

Try HIIT

I usually run about 2 miles on the weekdays for cardio. It takes me like 14-15 min, my buddy said that it is pretty much worthless because you need to get your heartrate at a certain point and maintain it for like 45 min to burn fat. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Synpax]

This thread will be deleted (hopefully soon) and will be replacd by some things that are more accurate and consolidated.

 

[lightemup82]

Running by far the best....

 

[wv_runner77]

running is best for weight loss. If you are a bodybuilder and want to keep muscle I would walk. The muscle you have will burn more then a small person walking and you will not burn up muscle. I have ran college CC and done BB, running is the best thing for weight loss and fitness. I do keep and get more muscle with walking. The bigger you get the less you should run for fat loss.

 

[GUARDIAN]

You guyz need 2 do some more research on anaerobic and aerobic exercise and how the body fuels these.

Low to moderate intensity exercise is what burns fat. You can't burn fat without the presence of oxygen. Your heart rate should be no more than 60-70% of max.

 

[Wave]

Based on my experience, I feel better with positive splits. However depend on previous long time training experience the body will adapt to the conditions, so an ex runner or swimmer in my opinion will be resistance to low intensity training. They should intensify their cardio to get result. Every body is difference. I read from a magazine that the more intens the cardio, the more far be burned. HIIT (high intensity interval training) is recommended, too long time running like marathon may reduce muscle mass and probably damaging muscle

 

[samcim123]

Just do both

 

[PICK3]

Slow Walking Burns More Calories, Easier on Joints