Results back from endocrinologist..please read!

[HEALTHFREAK]

I started my 2nd cycle after an 8 week layoff despite having a very low test reading. I did make an appointment with the endo just to make sure. Needless to say he told me not to do aas ( as I expected ), but he told me that if I do it probably wouldnt do any permenant damage. After giving me a battery of tests most came back ok. The trouble is that my test levels are still low and my LH and FSH levels are undetectable, also my estrone level is 200+ extremely high. This is why I have been storing fat in "female" areas such as chest and lower waist and butt. He told me it was caused by any Nandrolone product I was using and to stop it now. I used deca because it was suppose to be "clean" and administer low sides. BULLSHIT!

My debate is this. Although he wont prescribe me any , I am going to start LIQUIDEX immediatly and I am unsure wheter or not to take some test (omnadren) and WINSTROL for the next 5 weeks as I planned, or to stop everthing and just use the anti e, s and clomid. This blows for summer is here I my body isnt close to as good as it looked when I was a natural bodybuilder, I am bigger now but also smoother. I don't have gyno but I am definetly storing fat in the lower chest area and it is much less defined than previously.

sorry for writing a book , but I am depressed as shit, because I am working out harder than ever but not recieving the gains I should be due to my high estrogen level and cortisol production interfering with protein synthesis.

I need some help from mods , HUCK or someone, please a.s.a.p.

 

[muscleup]

Bro, I would just continue my cycle as planned...The endo said himself that it will probably not cause anymore damage than already is done....More than likely he will put you on HRT anyways

 

[Zyglamail]

So, are you on cycle now and where you when you got these tests run? Im a bit confused on the timeline. Also what did you last cycle consist of and what does your current cycle consist of (if on one) additionally what did you use for post cycle recovery?

 

[Ulter]

I'm with Ziggy I don't understand the time-line either.

 

[strong island]

If you just started a cycle wouldn't you expect your test, LH and FSH to be low.

That means the shit is working.

I am also confused

 

[strong island]

Get some nolvadex and arimidex...and continue with your cycle. The nolvadex will help with the estrogen already in your body. Contrary to what some believe nandralone does convert to estrogen and you seem to be very sensitive.

Hit the test and winstrol. If you can get some test prop instead of Omnadren it would be better. The Test Prop will get into your system quicker. Plus you can run it up to your clomid therapy. Run the Winny and Prop three weeks past the Deca. Clean up your diet and do some cardio in the morning. You should be able to get rid of that smooth look in no time.

Give us some more info on what your cycle has looked like and what you are planning.

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

sorry gus, here is the time line. In January I started a cycle of deca at 400mgs per week for 10 weeks and winstrol at 50 mgs a day for 6 weeks. I took a 6 -7 week layoff and decided to star a 2nd summer cycle of deca, winstrol, omnadren, eca , and yohimburn. I wanted to get checked out to see if everything was ok before starting so about 3 weeks after cycle 1 I went to see my doc. My tests came ok except for my test level which was extremely low (37, normal is between 250 and 800). So I decided to see an endocrinologist. By the time I saw him I was 2 weeks into my 2nd cycle, only taking 400 mgs per week of deca and 1-ad daily. I know I need to stop the extremely high estrogen level in my body by taking liquidex or letrozole, but can I finish my cycle???

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

bump for some serious help, please

 

[HansNZ]

I wanted to get checked out to see if everything was ok before starting so about 3 weeks after cycle 1 I went to see my doc. My tests came ok except for my test level which was extremely low (37, normal is between 250 and 800). So I decided to see an endocrinologist. By the time I saw him I was 2 weeks into my 2nd cycle, only taking 400 mgs per week of deca and 1-ad daily

Well this explains it. No wonder your FSH and LH levels are undetectable. Once you have finished your cycles properly and undertaken clomid therapy then reassess. You probably won't need HRT (as someone suggested) at all. In any case, some guys will finish 4 weeks of clomid therapy and go into a panic about "permanent suppression". Some guys need 6 months to get things back to normal.

Just keep cycling. Doctors are (and have to be) overly cautious. This is so you can't say they "didn't tell you" and so you can't sue sue them should you be the one-in-a-thousand person to get a side-effect. If you've done any permanent damage (unlikely) then I doubt continuing cycling is going to make much difference.

 

[2wide]

Sounds like someone needs a new doctor.

I hate it when Dr.s talk like they know anything about anabloics next time ask what his exp. is with AAS and what reseach he has studied on the subject and their side effects.

These are the same assclowns that just a few years ago said AAS did nothing to improve athletic performance (well how did they explain my 435 bench for reps at 38 yrs old mind over matter).

 

[Zyglamail]

I see posts like this everyday and I am amazed at how/why people think there bloodwork should be normal when on or not sufficiently off a cycle.

Now, no offense intended here HEALTHFREAK, but take a second an analyze what you are doing. Deca takes a hell of a long time to clear the system. So 3 weeks after your deca cycle (ie this is about the time clomid should start for post cycle recovery since blood levels of deca are now nearly low enough for recovery to begin) You see a doc for bloodwork. Well you just came of a cycle and havent even done any post cycle recovery, what did you honestly expect your test/FSH/LH levels to be? Even 2 weeks later at an endo you had allready started another cycle, of course you blood levels are going to be low, your taking AAS which shuts down natural function.

This is all AAS 101 and honestly if you dont understand this then you should not be using AAS.

As for what to do now, it sounds like you didnt take the appropriate time off between cycle or use proper post cycle treatment to restore test levels which means that after the current cycle you are going to take a while to get back to normal, specially deca cycles back to back. Since your allready back on, may as well just stay on and run it out. Anastrozole/letrozole would be a good idea and use it post cycle upto and during clomid therapy, chances are your gonna need all the help you can get comming off this one. HCG might not be a bad idea either.

In the future, if you want to make sure blood work is back to normal you CAN NOT have blood work taken on cycle and expect it to be normal. You also have to allow you body time to recover HPTA (sometimes 2-3 months) if you expect post cycle numbers to look right either.

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

Thank You for all replies, I have to say that I use hours a day to research AAS because I am just fascinated by the shit. But when DOCTORS put all thoughts in your head as scare tactics to make you stop, you begin to doubt all personal knowledge and it fucks you up. I want nothing more than to have children in the future and I get freaked sometimes.

 

[Zyglamail]

What it boils down to is that external administration of hormones will have a significant impact on your internal hormonal systems, as you have just seen. Getting blood work done while on, or shortly after without proper time for things to return to normal there is no way you can, or should, expect normal results. With that being said, go ahead and finish your cycle, your bloodwork is normal considering what your using. Then a couple months after your done with this cycle and have followed post cycle treatment, then go in and have blood work done, it should be much more normal.

 

[LONE_AZ]

In spite of what other have said you should stop. A good rule to follow is never start a new cycle until you have near normal test levels. The pituitary is like a thermostat you can turn it up and down, but if you leave it at one setting to long it may get stuck. You may or may not have to go on HRT, but in my opinion you should at least try to recover your systemic balance before another cycle. This is just another example of why Deca is not as healthy of a drug as it is purported to be. Deca has put an end to many genetic lines. Even at low doses is has a profound effect on the endocrine feedback systems. If you follow my advice use the regimen below. Looking good for the summer is not worth spending the rest of your life on HRT.


Increase testicular mass
Novaldex weeks 1-2 40mg ED
HCG 2500 IU a week for weeks 1-2

Stimulate mass
Clomid weeks 3-4 & (5) if you want
Novaldex weeks 3-4 20 mg ED

Taper off to avoid rebound
Novaldex weeks 5-6 10 mg ED
Novaldex weeks 7-8 5 mg ED

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

Lone, sounds like you know what your saying. My doctor told me that the pituatary doesnt stay shut down and will bounce back. I will stop any deca use but I wanted to use winstrol/liquidex/nolvadex or test/winstrol/liquidex/nolvadex to finish off short 5-6 week cycle. Any thoughts??

 

[40butpumpin]

I had a similar test results a while back. I did, and I'm recommeding for you to, start arimidex (or liquidex) immediately at 0.5mg per day and also do a solid month of HCG at 500IU per day before you start any more AS. These will help you quite a bit and what's nice is you'll see results almost immediately. For what it's worth I'm also taking I3C and Calcium D-Glucarate which I think helps. hth

 

[pa1ad]

I started my 2nd cycle after an 8 week layoff despite having a very low test reading. I did make an appointment with the endo just to make sure. Needless to say he told me not to do aas ( as I expected ), but he told me that if I do it probably wouldnt do any permenant damage. After giving me a battery of tests most came back ok. The trouble is that my test levels are still low and my LH and FSH levels are undetectable, also my estrone level is 200+ extremely high. This is why I have been storing fat in "female" areas such as chest and lower waist and butt. He told me it was caused by any Nandrolone product I was using and to stop it now. I used deca because it was suppose to be "clean" and administer low sides. BULLSHIT!

My debate is this. Although he wont prescribe me any , I am going to start LIQUIDEX immediatly and I am unsure wheter or not to take some test (omnadren) and WINSTROL for the next 5 weeks as I planned, or to stop everthing and just use the anti e, s and clomid. This blows for summer is here I my body isnt close to as good as it looked when I was a natural bodybuilder, I am bigger now but also smoother. I don't have gyno but I am definetly storing fat in the lower chest area and it is much less defined than previously.

sorry for writing a book , but I am depressed as shit, because I am working out harder than ever but not recieving the gains I should be due to my high estrogen level and cortisol production interfering with protein synthesis.

I need some help from mods , HUCK or someone, please a.s.a.p.

My suggestion? Go to the video store and rent either Beaches or Steel Magnolias, pick up some ice cream, go home and lay on the couch and cry. C'mon, you know you want to do it!!

 

[LONE_AZ]

Winstrol is also very effective at pituitary inhibition but its short half-life lends to quick recovery. I would stay away from the test. It is my opinion that you try for recovery first but if you is dead set on a cycle to cut up for summer than try the Winny EOD. That will help with the inhibition. You certainly won’t get the kind of results with a ED dosing regime but you should get fairly hard with minimal effect on your feedback system. Whether you go with the Winny ED or EOD go no longer than eight weeks and follow the recovery regimen I mentioned in my previous post. Just start the HCG the last two weeks of your cycle. Clomid by itself will not cut it. Also remember the Arimidex will not effect the estrogen currently in your system. You may not lose the bloat or your fat pattern distribution will not start to change for at least two weeks.

 

[Zyglamail]

While I do think LONE's method is the safest, there are guys who run AAS for very long periods of time with no long term problems either. Switching deca for some other AAS isnt doing you any good and all thats been said here seems to be going over your head.

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

ZYG,

I dont understand why you think this is going over my head. What is it thart you are trying to tell me that I m not understanding?

 

[Ulter]

Geez I click on the thread all ready to anwer and there's Ziggy. He's got it covered like a blanket. Nice work Zyg.

 

[HEALTHFREAK]

zyg,

I appreciate all your input, just got a little nervous. Must be all the estrogen ( ha ha ). I got incredible results from my first cycle so i guess I got a little anxious. I could shoot myself for not using proper post cycle therapy, I knew what to do I just didnt prepare in advance and by the time I needed them there was none around. I was a competing natural bodybuilder for 3 years so using aas was a huge step for me and sometimes I still feel a bit guilty.

 

[Zyglamail]

Lone, sounds like you know what your saying. My doctor told me that the pituatary doesnt stay shut down and will bounce back. I will stop any deca use but I wanted to use winstrol/liquidex/nolvadex or test/winstrol/liquidex/nolvadex to finish off short 5-6 week cycle. Any thoughts??

You have been given both paths. While lones idea is not to be overlooked because I too only beleive in short cycle (ie 8-12 weeks) for those that are not stage bound your probability of long term damage from simply running two cycles too close together is very unlikely.

When I stated these things are going over your head the reason is your comment above. You jumped on a cycle too soon after your last. Additionally you you went to a doc to make sure your blood work was fine, which of course it wouldnt be because you apparently did not follow post cycle procedures and even if you did you got the blood work too soon for your body to normalize. Then you immediatly jump on deca again, knowing your blood work was off and while in a panic and now ask if you should just stop deca and take test or winny. Your ALLREADY SHUT DOWN how do you think using test/winny or any AAS for that matter will allow you to recover????

Now the reason I just said to stay on is because you seem bound and determined to regardless of what anyone says and my guess is if you couldnt find post cycle items last time you probably dont have them now either. Your impatience is shinning through since the first rule in my book is not to start a cycle unless you have everything on hand to begin with.

 

[OMEGA]

marked for later reading