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Refeeding and Leptin
- Thread starter barnidge
- Start date
Some people do refeeds of as long as 48 hours -- if you do that, you should only be about 10-20% above maintence. I prefer going about 50% above for a shorter period of time (like 12 hours).
As for foods, dextrose is the very best, but really any starch will do pretty well also (assuming it does not have much fiber), because you will be consuming large quantities, so you will get a decent insulin spike.
My personal favorites on refeed days are cereal and spaghetti.
As for foods, dextrose is the very best, but really any starch will do pretty well also (assuming it does not have much fiber), because you will be consuming large quantities, so you will get a decent insulin spike.
My personal favorites on refeed days are cereal and spaghetti.
barnidge said:
If you have not read my articles, you should do so.
That aside, timing depends on your bf levels -- the leaner you are compared to your setpoint, the more often they should be done.
They should be pretty low-fat, but not so much that you can't at least sort of enjoy your food -- i.e. there is nothing wrong with getting 10 grams of fat in a meal. Eating a bowl of gravy is a different story.
Would Chinese Buffet improve Leptin levels as it does not consist mostly of Glucose but rather fatty foods and protein along with some starches?
Is Cinnamon Toast Crunch w/ Skim Milk acceptable?
BTW, Par Deus I tried to read all your articles but some of the information went over my head. I am sure they were chock full of good stuff. I'll take another look at them again. But the best way of raising leptin is with the Highest GI Food possible?
Is Cinnamon Toast Crunch w/ Skim Milk acceptable?
BTW, Par Deus I tried to read all your articles but some of the information went over my head. I am sure they were chock full of good stuff. I'll take another look at them again. But the best way of raising leptin is with the Highest GI Food possible?
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par deus, tell me if i got this right, high leptin levels keep the fat burning process going good, and decreased leptin levels cause you to hit "the wall" and progress stops, or is it the opposite?
also, you said spaghetti and cereal are your favorite choices, are these just your favorite to eat or best for a refeed? and if so why
one more question, why are high gi carbs the best for this?
also, you said spaghetti and cereal are your favorite choices, are these just your favorite to eat or best for a refeed? and if so why
one more question, why are high gi carbs the best for this?
110% said:
There is a threshold for insulin helping with leptin, and it is fairly high. In addition, ideally, you should be eating often enough, that glucose and insulin are pretty much constantly elevated, even with simple carbs.
The last meal of the night would be an exception, for the reason you stated.
My refeed day is tomorrow and I was planning to eat only complex carbs like sweet potato, black beans and brown rice but I think cereal and spagethi would be better in terms of replinish the leptins level, right?
Im going to do for the first 8hrs of the day...How often should I eat and how mant mg´s of carbs for the 8 hrs?
BOTTOM LINE: Can my refeed day include only carbs like brown rice, sweet potato and black beans? or do I have to include cereal, spagethi, fat free cookies!?!?!?
THANKS
Im going to do for the first 8hrs of the day...How often should I eat and how mant mg´s of carbs for the 8 hrs?
BOTTOM LINE: Can my refeed day include only carbs like brown rice, sweet potato and black beans? or do I have to include cereal, spagethi, fat free cookies!?!?!?
THANKS
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chillin408
New member
Is pizza ok to eat during the cheat period? It has more fat per serving than spaghetti, but I really enjoy it far more than any low-fat cheat foods.
The articles are very long and I'm gonna read them, but I just haven't had time yet.
The articles are very long and I'm gonna read them, but I just haven't had time yet.
chillin408
New member
That sucks because pizza doesn't taste as good if the carbs are not mixed with the fat, but the bread and sauce do taste alright alone. Not my ideal cheat food selection, but better than non-cheat food.
p60 - Were talking about refeeds, not regular dieting. Insulin needs to be spiked becuase pleptin levels increase from glucose metabolism. You know when you need to refeed when your results stop and you start craving food. Of course, once you get used to refeeds you will be able to refeed before this happens and therefore counteract this before it even happens
chillin408- eat low fat unless you just wanna get fat and at the sme time not get as good of a leptin increase.
shinobi- your refeed needs to be longer than 8 hrs or it will have minimal effect on leptin levels. You can eat brown rice, etc. but it will not have as good of an effect. If you really wanna do it right, I would just eat dextrose or similar products all day. And eat as often as possible. Calulate carb amounts by eating calories +50%, 1g/lbm of protein, veyr low fat, and the rest as carbs. Carbs will probably come out to about 3X BW or more.
chillin408- eat low fat unless you just wanna get fat and at the sme time not get as good of a leptin increase.
shinobi- your refeed needs to be longer than 8 hrs or it will have minimal effect on leptin levels. You can eat brown rice, etc. but it will not have as good of an effect. If you really wanna do it right, I would just eat dextrose or similar products all day. And eat as often as possible. Calulate carb amounts by eating calories +50%, 1g/lbm of protein, veyr low fat, and the rest as carbs. Carbs will probably come out to about 3X BW or more.
w - your correct, but I didn't think anybody but Par would be doing refeeds like Par since he knows how to do it so well.
p60 - you refeed so that you don't have to cut cals and therefore screw your thyroid/metabolism more plus lose more muscle. Cravings mean results are going to slow down because that means leptin is low which means a bunch of your normones/ other bodily functions are in conservation mode and will make it harder for you to burn actual fat,etc. In regards to disciplined bodybuilders, this is a planned refeed, not a random pig out of any food.
shinobi - eat the maltodextrin, but just eat carbs, don't stress so damn much, just eat crabs that you want to eat and make sure they are low fat.
Here is an article that is a compilation of quotes by Elzi Volk, Lyle McDonald and others from MFW. IT is easier to understand than Par's Articles if you could not figure out Par's Articles.
http://www.theministryoffitness.com/mof/library/articles/article18.htm
p60 - you refeed so that you don't have to cut cals and therefore screw your thyroid/metabolism more plus lose more muscle. Cravings mean results are going to slow down because that means leptin is low which means a bunch of your normones/ other bodily functions are in conservation mode and will make it harder for you to burn actual fat,etc. In regards to disciplined bodybuilders, this is a planned refeed, not a random pig out of any food.
shinobi - eat the maltodextrin, but just eat carbs, don't stress so damn much, just eat crabs that you want to eat and make sure they are low fat.
Here is an article that is a compilation of quotes by Elzi Volk, Lyle McDonald and others from MFW. IT is easier to understand than Par's Articles if you could not figure out Par's Articles.
http://www.theministryoffitness.com/mof/library/articles/article18.htm
And while you guys are at it, go to Par's site:
www.avantlabs.com
And read the articles, then ask questions.
www.avantlabs.com
And read the articles, then ask questions.
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riskybizz007
New member
I think he mentioned the best thign to eat was simple carbs. Dextrose would be the ideal. But I like to actually enjoy my refeeds, so I eat cakes, candies, etc. It keeps me sane.
Goto Chinese Buffet ,stack up on white rice,potatoes,fruit bar,hmmmmmm what else they have ,noodles
CHINESE FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE WHOA!!!!!!!!!! i think all that teriyaki chicken on saturday made me go super hard today at the gym ,DB Bench 100lbs like whoa:/ i wanted to go for 130 but stupid mofo was using it:/
CHINESE FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE WHOA!!!!!!!!!! i think all that teriyaki chicken on saturday made me go super hard today at the gym ,DB Bench 100lbs like whoa:/ i wanted to go for 130 but stupid mofo was using it:/LOVE them refeeds!
I've done this for quite a while, it's nice to see Par has validated it. The only difference is for 5 days (Sunday - Friday) I go low carb / high protein AND low fat other than omega3 supplements. Once it hits Friday I eat between 10-15,000 cals per day (48 hours total) which includes lots of nasty carbs & fat. Hell, I'll usually go through two rolls of cookie dough (as in not even baking them) as a Friday night "snack". This is my maintenance mode - I usually maintain about 6% body fat this way.
Also I crank Iron on re-feed days as well which usually gives me a great workout - better than during the low carb week.
I've done this for quite a while, it's nice to see Par has validated it. The only difference is for 5 days (Sunday - Friday) I go low carb / high protein AND low fat other than omega3 supplements. Once it hits Friday I eat between 10-15,000 cals per day (48 hours total) which includes lots of nasty carbs & fat. Hell, I'll usually go through two rolls of cookie dough (as in not even baking them) as a Friday night "snack". This is my maintenance mode - I usually maintain about 6% body fat this way.
Also I crank Iron on re-feed days as well which usually gives me a great workout - better than during the low carb week.
Par is doing that so that he can experiment with gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time.
He refeeds so often becuase his bodyfat is so low and because of what I said before. It is not a matter of whether one can go more than a day without refeeding, but whether it is possible for a certain person. Anybody can diet for months on end. Par is experimented with different styles of refeeds to see what gets the best results. I think he menitoned before that he does about 8 hours of dieting and then 16 hours of refeeding.
Take in your BMR+50%
He refeeds so often becuase his bodyfat is so low and because of what I said before. It is not a matter of whether one can go more than a day without refeeding, but whether it is possible for a certain person. Anybody can diet for months on end. Par is experimented with different styles of refeeds to see what gets the best results. I think he menitoned before that he does about 8 hours of dieting and then 16 hours of refeeding.
Take in your BMR+50%
Calculations
I did my calculations and:
My maintenance calorie level is 2800 and I have to multiply it for 1.2 = 3360cal
62% carbs = 540grams
18% prot. = 153grams
20% fat = 75grams
"As you can see from the above amounts, that's a lot of Carbs. Protein stays the same and Fat is (relative to overall Caloric level) low.
Carbs should come from simple sources, e.g. Sucrose, Glucose, Fructose, Maltodextrin, etc.
Refilling liver glycogen is important during the refeed, so try to take some Fructose at each meal, e.g. Bananas, Grapes, Pineapple, Dried Apricots.
Take simple carbs at each meal, and switch to starchy carbs for the last few meals of the day if desired (If a 1-day refeed), or simple carbs one day, and starchy carbs the next (If 2-day). "
Im going on my first REFEED DAY this friday... I will let u guys know how it goes
I did my calculations and:
My maintenance calorie level is 2800 and I have to multiply it for 1.2 = 3360cal
62% carbs = 540grams
18% prot. = 153grams
20% fat = 75grams
"As you can see from the above amounts, that's a lot of Carbs. Protein stays the same and Fat is (relative to overall Caloric level) low.
Carbs should come from simple sources, e.g. Sucrose, Glucose, Fructose, Maltodextrin, etc.
Refilling liver glycogen is important during the refeed, so try to take some Fructose at each meal, e.g. Bananas, Grapes, Pineapple, Dried Apricots.
Take simple carbs at each meal, and switch to starchy carbs for the last few meals of the day if desired (If a 1-day refeed), or simple carbs one day, and starchy carbs the next (If 2-day). "
Im going on my first REFEED DAY this friday... I will let u guys know how it goes
shinobi did you read Par's articles. All the overall benefits are there so I'm not gonna go find them and list them. Basically it raises leptin. When leptin is lowered your body uses less fat for energy, thryroid and metablosim slow down, etc. 20g is fine, you would probably be able to take in even a little more. Stay away from products that claim to be low fat- they are filled with crap instead of the fat. Just stick to items that are naturlaly low fat like pasta,etc.
p60- why are you dieting with such a deficit. You don't wanna lose any muscle, but if it is working for you then keep going. Start out with refeeds every 7 days and then try every 5 days. Just play with it to see what works for you. Plus, once your bf drops you will need to do it more often. The reason you are so hungry by Thursday is because of your large calorie deficit.
p60- why are you dieting with such a deficit. You don't wanna lose any muscle, but if it is working for you then keep going. Start out with refeeds every 7 days and then try every 5 days. Just play with it to see what works for you. Plus, once your bf drops you will need to do it more often. The reason you are so hungry by Thursday is because of your large calorie deficit.
p60 said:
There is no data to give exact numbers -- puls, hormonal changes take place, so you might only burn 200 less calories, but where it comes from shifts from adipose tissue toward muscle tissue.
When you start to feel hungry and fatigued, leptin is already low -- you should do your refeed the day BEFORE this -- you certainly should not extend the diet.
You will have to do them more and more frequently as you get leaner. For most never-obese males, the 10% range is the magic number where the body starts really fighting back
Acer:
Im eating:
8:00AM 1 serving of oatmeal + 25gr whey protein
10:30AM 150grams of sweet potato + 200gr of tuna
01:00PM 1 serving of brown rice + 200gr tuna + 1tbls flax oil
3:00PM Post workout shake with 40gr protein 60gr malto
4:00PM 300grams of lean ground meat with veggies
6:30PM 2 scoop of whey(50gr protein)
9:00PM Salmon with veggies
Before bed Night formula from protein factory + 1tbsl flax oil
Im 5,70ft and 190lbs
In centimeters 1,74cm and 90kg
7% fat
Im mesomorphic
Im eating:
8:00AM 1 serving of oatmeal + 25gr whey protein
10:30AM 150grams of sweet potato + 200gr of tuna
01:00PM 1 serving of brown rice + 200gr tuna + 1tbls flax oil
3:00PM Post workout shake with 40gr protein 60gr malto
4:00PM 300grams of lean ground meat with veggies
6:30PM 2 scoop of whey(50gr protein)
9:00PM Salmon with veggies
Before bed Night formula from protein factory + 1tbsl flax oil
Im 5,70ft and 190lbs
In centimeters 1,74cm and 90kg
7% fat
Im mesomorphic
But my carb cravings kills me sometimes although I can fight against it and I win but when I knew about this Refeed day I was so happy but you think I should stick with my diet? I was thinking about a carb load day with only sweet potato, brown rice, black beans...what u think Acer?
Sorry to bug you bro...Im not a newbie to the scene but this refeed day is totally new stuff for me
but when I knew about this Refeed day I was so happy but you think I should stick with my diet? I was thinking about a carb load day with only sweet potato, brown rice, black beans...what u think Acer?Sorry to bug you bro...Im not a newbie to the scene but this refeed day is totally new stuff for me
Take your carb amount for the day and spread it out evenly over the whole day. Then just figure out how many to eat till 5 by figuring what percentage of your waking hours will be till 5 oclock and eat that many of your carbs as high GI.
I'm waiting for Par Deus to throw some opinions in here too about all of this.
I'm waiting for Par Deus to throw some opinions in here too about all of this.
If you are doing a short refeed -- like less than 24 hours, basically, just minimize fat and fructose intake, and eat as many carbs as you want. It doesn't matter where they come from -- that is 80-90% of what you need to know.
The other 10-20% is really too long and complicated to fully explain here -- some of it can be figured out from my previous articles, the rest will be addressed in the upcoming installments.
The other 10-20% is really too long and complicated to fully explain here -- some of it can be figured out from my previous articles, the rest will be addressed in the upcoming installments.
shinobi- PAr is saying you can eat whatever kind of carbs you want to. In regards to leptin, all high GI carbs would be the best. And then some low GI right before bed. Since you are so worried about gaining fat though, I would stick to less amount of high GI carbs even though this is not necesary.
CHINESE BUFFET refeed will not get you fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
any refeed wont get you fat ,it wont even make you gain 1lb of fat.............
the refeed is just to get your leptin levels.......shit if u look at it,its like a CKD diet......carb up on weekeneds......and many report that they got some muscle gains from it..........you wont be fat cause you get back at the gym/diet and back on routine.........its just jumpstarts your metabolism................
REFEED GOOD!!!!!!
any refeed wont get you fat ,it wont even make you gain 1lb of fat.............
the refeed is just to get your leptin levels.......shit if u look at it,its like a CKD diet......carb up on weekeneds......and many report that they got some muscle gains from it..........you wont be fat cause you get back at the gym/diet and back on routine.........its just jumpstarts your metabolism................
REFEED GOOD!!!!!!
Im endomorphic
Endomorphs rarely have a problem bulking up or gaining size. Again, although I’ve yet to find a study that confirms my theory, it is my belief the endomorphs would primarily have fast twitch muscle fibers and have a low tolerance to insulin. This would contribute to their ability to readily gain mass. Endomorphs must stay active, due to their low tolerance to insulin they will readily store body fat and can quickly become obese...Thats why Im affraid to get FAT while refeeding with so many high GI carbs! Im 7% bf now and only Jesus know what I´ve been doing to get down to 7%bf!
Endomorphs rarely have a problem bulking up or gaining size. Again, although I’ve yet to find a study that confirms my theory, it is my belief the endomorphs would primarily have fast twitch muscle fibers and have a low tolerance to insulin. This would contribute to their ability to readily gain mass. Endomorphs must stay active, due to their low tolerance to insulin they will readily store body fat and can quickly become obese...Thats why Im affraid to get FAT while refeeding with so many high GI carbs! Im 7% bf now and only Jesus know what I´ve been doing to get down to 7%bf!
and i have the roundness on lower stomach ,the buldge :/ whats that?
plornive
New member
Some signs of low leptin from my experience:
get cold easily,
hit fatigue earlier in workout (less fat mobilization = less stamina),
never sweat at night (nightsweats = active thyroid, I think),
less morning wood (in my experience),
desire for food > desire for sex (this is definitely not right),
eating less with no weight-loss (T3 correllated with leptin)
To check your metabolism, take your temperature in the morning before getting out of bed. Also, get some blood tests that test for T3 and T4.
get cold easily,
hit fatigue earlier in workout (less fat mobilization = less stamina),
never sweat at night (nightsweats = active thyroid, I think),
less morning wood (in my experience),
desire for food > desire for sex (this is definitely not right),
eating less with no weight-loss (T3 correllated with leptin)
To check your metabolism, take your temperature in the morning before getting out of bed. Also, get some blood tests that test for T3 and T4.
plornive
New member
It depends on how long your leptin and metabolism has been low, I think. You may need to gain a little bit of weight to really progress w/o losing too much muscle. I think an acceptable length for a diet is 12 weeks maximum. After that, the metabolism usually slows down for the long term. Maybe a refeed will extend this, though.
hey plornive
those tips about knowing if leptin levels seem to be low a good way to know if refeed is needed.........but i dunno what if half the time you dont even crave carbs??? is that a sign of low leptin im getting about 60-100 a day ,depends on the training day........ALSO i do notice no morning wood
i dont sweat at nite cause im in NYC for now,its mad cold !! but in florida i sweat like a donkey :/
hit fatigue in workout hmmm? i do until failure
but i was wondering since i found out my bf% today 11.8 from the electrical thing im guessing really 10-12% ,gonna def refeed this weekened ...........what you think of foods such as PANCAKES,WAFFLES,CEREAL,MILK, McDonalds Chicken Fajita??? any suggestions?
plornive ,what were you eating on your carb load days when CKD?
those tips about knowing if leptin levels seem to be low a good way to know if refeed is needed.........but i dunno what if half the time you dont even crave carbs??? is that a sign of low leptin im getting about 60-100 a day ,depends on the training day........ALSO i do notice no morning wood
i dont sweat at nite cause im in NYC for now,its mad cold !! but in florida i sweat like a donkey :/
hit fatigue in workout hmmm? i do until failure
but i was wondering since i found out my bf% today 11.8 from the electrical thing im guessing really 10-12% ,gonna def refeed this weekened ...........what you think of foods such as PANCAKES,WAFFLES,CEREAL,MILK, McDonalds Chicken Fajita??? any suggestions?
plornive ,what were you eating on your carb load days when CKD?
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par..I never refeed, i never thought i needed to because my bf% (last time tested) was realatively high. I weight 107pounds with 22% bf, im 5"6 tall.
I carb rotate and thought that refeeds were for those on keto diets only.
In your opinion is it still necessary for me to have refeeds? I guess if I do they should be every 3-4weeks?
I carb rotate and thought that refeeds were for those on keto diets only.
In your opinion is it still necessary for me to have refeeds? I guess if I do they should be every 3-4weeks?
riskybizz007
New member
107 pounds? You mean 207 and at 22% BF. If i'm not mistaken the lower your BF the more you may have to refeed. at 22% you're pretty high.
