Question for patrick arnold or pardeus on PH assay...

[Pityocamptes]

I was wondering if either of you could provide standard assay information (MP, purity, etc) on 4AD and 19-Nordiol when it "rolls off the assembly line." I've heard stories of kilosports selling "cut" PH's. Is this something that comes from the manufacturer or is the seller "cutting" the product or is the manufacturer doing it at the request of the seller? I would like to know what the assay information would be "uncut." I've seen some sites/sellers that show the assay on 4ad as being 99.08% pure. I assume that the .92% is glue/binders, correct? If not what then. Also, I've seen some sellers that show the assay on 19-nordiol as being 98.3% pure with an MP of 163 degrees. Does 19-nordiol have a different manufacturing process than 4ad and it thus has more binders/glues? Or is someone "stomping" on this. I assume its glues or binders if not what would make up the other 1.7% ? Thanks for your help!

 

[Par Deus]

PA is the chemist and manufacturer of PH's, so I will let him answer, but just so he has some background info, the "cutting" thing comes from Animal who claims that KiloSport's bulk 4-AD powder is being cut with cyclodextrin. I have heard it reported that he determined this solely by its melting point.

 

[pa1ad]

I was wondering if either of you could provide standard assay information (MP, purity, etc) on 4AD and 19-Nordiol when it "rolls off the assembly line." I've heard stories of kilosports selling "cut" PH's. Is this something that comes from the manufacturer or is the seller "cutting" the product or is the manufacturer doing it at the request of the seller? I would like to know what the assay information would be "uncut." I've seen some sites/sellers that show the assay on 4ad as being 99.08% pure. I assume that the .92% is glue/binders, correct? If not what then. Also, I've seen some sellers that show the assay on 19-nordiol as being 98.3% pure with an MP of 163 degrees. Does 19-nordiol have a different manufacturing process than 4ad and it thus has more binders/glues? Or is someone "stomping" on this. I assume its glues or binders if not what would make up the other 1.7% ? Thanks for your help!

Diol prohormones made in the US and made in china are both manufactured the same way - by hydride reduction of the corresponding diones.

The finished product from china and the US are quite similar and the 4-AD usually assays out around 95% purity while the nordiol assays out around 85-90% purity. As far as the C of A that the chinese give you with purchase of their diols, you can wipe your ass and flush it because it is a lie.

Both diol products are mixture of isomers (3alpha and 3beta) and as a result the melting points are completely fucked up (they melt over a very wide range). You cannot determine anything from doing a melting point on these products.

The other constituents that make up the 5-15% of the products are mostly 5alpha and 5beta reduced side products. Some inorganic material may also be present in the material along with traces of other unidentified organic compounds.

You cannot do a purity test on the diols without expensive equipment such as a GC or HPLC.

BTW, the thought that kilosports cuts their 4-AD with cyclodextrin sounds preposterous. Why would anyone suggest that they do? How are they testing for the presence of cyclodextrin?

 

[MIKERAZ]

Re: Re: Question for patrick arnold or pardeus on PH assay...

Diol prohormones made in the US and made in china are both manufactured the same way - by hydride reduction of the corresponding diones.

The finished product from china and the US are quite similar and the 4-AD usually assays out around 95% purity while the nordiol assays out around 85-90% purity. As far as the C of A that the chinese give you with purchase of their diols, you can wipe your ass and flush it because it is a lie.

Both diol products are mixture of isomers (3alpha and 3beta) and as a result the melting points are completely fucked up (they melt over a very wide range). You cannot determine anything from doing a melting point on these products.

The other constituents that make up the 5-15% of the products are mostly 5alpha and 5beta reduced side products. Some inorganic material may also be present in the material along with traces of other unidentified organic compounds.

You cannot do a purity test on the diols without expensive equipment such as a GC or HPLC.

BTW, the thought that kilosports cuts their 4-AD with cyclodextrin sounds preposterous. Why would anyone suggest that they do? How are they testing for the presence of cyclodextrin?

Is this like the time you said test cant be put into oil solution? and synovex cant be seperated without access to a lab?

 

[Pityocamptes]

Animals response:

Just wanted to post Animals comment on this subject since it seems to be affecting a lot of people who are trying to get "clean" PH's. Here it is:


Hehe, mikeraz fucked them good!

You can put this over there too as when I had some bad androstenedion, THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY PUT CYCLODEXTRIN IN THERE Which they admitted in the last email they sent me as well!

Now, if they have 5-15% of this that or the other thing, then they can't claim pure nor can they claim the melting point on the data sheet which is precisely what I busted them on.

And what kinda fucking idiot says the melting point means nothing. Sounds like they have a stake in this or are ripping people off in another way because if you don't meet the melting point in the Merck or on a stat sheet then you have shit!

And people are asking these fuck-ups for advice. GEEZUS!

Get a fucking education!

 

[cockdezl]

"Is this like the time you said test cant be put into oil solution? and synovex cant be seperated without access to a lab?"

No, its more like the time you stated that the Segaloff steroid was a myth.

 

[MIKERAZ]

"Is this like the time you said test cant be put into oil solution? and synovex cant be seperated without access to a lab?"

No, its more like the time you stated that the Segaloff steroid was a myth.

No i think its more like the time you said you injected 1test-ec ED
and there was no pain

 

[cockdezl]

"No i think its more like the time you said you injected 1test-ec ED
and there was no pain"

????? I stated this? Are you on crack? Please show us this mysterious quote of mine.

 

[MIKERAZ]

Ok maybe i had you mixed up with someoen else

I'm assuming by defending par and pa your stating animal is wrong?

 

[cockdezl]

"Ok maybe i had you mixed up with someoen else"

Yes, I understand how you might think that I am someone else, since Animal tried to make this same correlation, while I was participating (briefly) on his board.

"I'm assuming by defending par and pa your stating animal is wrong?"

I am not claiming Animal is wrong in his conversation with Kilosports, since I can't find any reason why he would lie about this.

As for any technical aspects of Animal's post, I wouldn't trust him to get the time of day correct.

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Re: Re: Question for patrick arnold or pardeus on PH assay...

Is this like the time you said test cant be put into oil solution? and synovex cant be seperated without access to a lab?

Since these are essentially true statements then yeah.

Testosterones solubility in oil is so low that it is pretty impractical. It also is very ineffective when injected in oil compared to esterified testosterone.

And if you can tell me how to get the estrogen out of synovex without some serious chemistry than I will by you a beer or three anytime you want bud.

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Animals response:

Just wanted to post Animals comment on this subject since it seems to be affecting a lot of people who are trying to get "clean" PH's. Here it is:


Hehe, mikeraz fucked them good!

You can put this over there too as when I had some bad androstenedion, THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY PUT CYCLODEXTRIN IN THERE Which they admitted in the last email they sent me as well!

Now, if they have 5-15% of this that or the other thing, then they can't claim pure nor can they claim the melting point on the data sheet which is precisely what I busted them on.

And what kinda fucking idiot says the melting point means nothing. Sounds like they have a stake in this or are ripping people off in another way because if you don't meet the melting point in the Merck or on a stat sheet then you have shit!

And people are asking these fuck-ups for advice. GEEZUS!

Get a fucking education!

So where did this genius get his chemistry degree? What chemical corporations did he work for, what projects did he work on? What instrumentation and chemical processing techniques has he developed expertise in?

Melting point is pretty useless if the product you have is a mixture of components, in this case two isomers that each individually have quite different melting points. You end up with a very broad range at which the product melts.

Do people actually take this guy seriously?

 

[cockdezl]

"So where did this genius get his chemistry degree? What chemical corporations did he work for, what projects did he work on? What instrumentation and chemical processing techniques has he developed expertise in?"

I think he received his degree from that Sally Struthers infomercial.

"Do people actually take this guy seriously?"

'In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.'

www.animalkits.be

 

[Deepsquat]

"Ok maybe i had you mixed up with someoen else"

Yes, I understand how you might think that I am someone else, since Animal tried to make this same correlation, while I was participating (briefly) on his board.

"I'm assuming by defending par and pa your stating animal is wrong?"

I am not claiming Animal is wrong in his conversation with Kilosports, since I can't find any reason why he would lie about this.

As for any technical aspects of Animal's post, I wouldn't trust him to get the time of day correct.

Your just mad because Animal , KICKED YOUR ASS OFF HIS BOARD!

HAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHHAHHAHAAHAHa

 

[Deepsquat]

Re: Re: Animals response:

So where did this genius get his chemistry degree? What chemical corporations did he work for, what projects did he work on? What instrumentation and chemical processing techniques has he developed expertise in?

Melting point is pretty useless if the product you have is a mixture of components, in this case two isomers that each individually have quite different melting points. You end up with a very broad range at which the product melts.

Do people actually take this guy seriously?

So your saying that the only way to have knowledge is to have a degree??? What kind of elitist crap is that?
Yeah I have read your posts both here and on anabolex and you are very, very, knowledgable. But that doesn't mean that Animal isn't!
Hell, I am not a certified trainer, but I guarantee you that I have more knowledge then ((% of the certified trainers out there( I have met exactly one in my area who had half of a clue).
I could buy a degree online but i still wouldn't know shit about chemistry...for that i depend on Animal!

 

[1fast400]

Ignorance is bliss. Hopefully for the sake of the gene pool some people on this board won't reproduce.

 

[cockdezl]

"Your just mad because Animal , KICKED YOUR ASS OFF HIS BOARD!"

Well, DEEPTWAT, or whatever, it seems that anyone who disagrees with ANIMAL is thrown off. See if you can find any posts that disagree with that moron and tell me if they were not deleted or edited to hell and back. It is not hard to make everything support your view, when you do not allow for an open discussion. OHHH wait...I forgot, ANIMAL only wants others to show proof that he is wrong, but he is not bound by the same rule. That would be because he has little proof to back his ideas. IIf he really is so smart, ask him to come to any of the moderated boards and have an open discussion....OHHH, wait....I think he has been pretty much kicked out of most of them.

"Yeah I have read your posts both here and on anabolex and you are very, very, knowledgable. But that doesn't mean that Animal isn't!"

Because Pat has a degree does not mean that ANIMAL is stupid. ANIMAL is stupid because of the things that come from his mouth (brain..since we are online); even if Pat had an English degree, this would not change ANIMAL's stupidity.

"Hell, I am not a certified trainer, but I guarantee you that I have more knowledge then ((% of the certified trainers out there( I have met exactly one in my area who had half of a clue)."

Having more knowledge than certified trainers is not impressive, they are some of the most poorly trained professionals there are.

"I could buy a degree online but i still wouldn't know shit about chemistry...for that i depend on Animal!"

So you are saying that ANIMAL bought his chemistry degree online? Now that makes alot more sense.

 

[natass]

I have to defend this

I have to defend Animal because of the results that I myself and many local guys who have used his kit to seperate Synovex so that there is no estrogen. I'm not talking about guys who have done syno along with other AS. I'm talking about guys who tried it by itself. I myself have probably done a good 80cc or more of it which is what a kit makes and not one of us, out of I'd say 12 or so guys have had any signs of gyno or other problems that might be caused by amounts of estrogen that is in synovex. The bottom line is the kit separates the estrogen. you can't change my mind about that.

Ok, Animal talks the talk and I bet he can also walk the walk. It's his friggin board. Don't go to it if you don't like his ways. Everyone is entitled to their way of life. Dont' try and take that away. Just stay away. You are entitled to your own opinion of him or anyone else.

I know a couple of ya will flame and you are entitled to that. I won't get caught up in that stuff.

 

[cockdezl]

"I have to defend Animal because of the results that I myself and many local guys who have used his kit to seperate Synovex so that there is no estrogen. I'm not talking about guys who have done syno along with other AS. I'm talking about guys who tried it by itself. I myself have probably done a good 80cc or more of it which is what a kit makes and not one of us, out of I'd say 12 or so guys have had any signs of gyno or other problems that might be caused by amounts of estrogen that is in synovex. The bottom line is the kit separates the estrogen. you can't change my mind about that."

I have never stated that A's kits are not effective...in fact, I have stated in other posts that I thought that Animal was a fine businessman. But simply because he produces a kit that solublizes steroidal compounds, does not make him the be-all end-all of pharmacology and biochemistry. Unfortunately, this is his thinking.

"Ok, Animal talks the talk and I bet he can also walk the walk. It's his friggin board. Don't go to it if you don't like his ways. Everyone is entitled to their way of life. Dont' try and take that away. Just stay away. You are entitled to your own opinion of him or anyone else."

Animal only "talks the talk". He is not open for disagreement or discussion. Look at any of the posts that show articles written by other writers,--essentially if Animal did not write it, it is wrong. And if you do disagree and back it up with studies, then he simply deletes them. Also, Animal is always the initiator of any flames that occur in a post. When disagreed with, he resorts to name-calling and threats...he is simply a child.

I agree with you, it is his board and he may do with it what he wishes, but I have every right to voice my opinion concerning the validity of the information presented there.

 

[Deepsquat]

Well, DEEPTWAT, or whatever, it seems that anyone who disagrees with ANIMAL is thrown off. See if you can find any posts that disagree with that moron and tell me if they were not deleted or edited to hell and back. It is not hard to make everything support your view, when you do not allow for an open discussion. OHHH wait...I forgot, ANIMAL only wants others to show proof that he is wrong, but he is not bound by the same rule. That would be because he has little proof to back his ideas. IIf he really is so smart, ask him to come to any of the moderated boards and have an open discussion....OHHH, wait....I think he has been pretty much kicked out of most of them.

Well doesn't that take a lot of balls on your part? i mean calling me Deeptwat...when you name yourself after your little Johnson!
What does Cockdezel mean anyway? "MAN WITH SMALL PENIS" ???

And if you do disagree and back it up with studies, then he simply deletes them. Also, Animal is always the initiator of any flames that occur in a post. When disagreed with, he resorts to name-calling and threats...he is simply a child
He acts like a child???? Have read any of your responses ? Every reply that you have given, you come off like an asshole! If anyone is acting like a little baby its you,COCK.
You know....I would put down a string of insults here and make you feel small( actually with your inflated ego i doubt that is possible) but i think you are doing a fine job yourself of coming off like an ass!

 

[pa1ad]

Re: Re: Re: Animals response:

So your saying that the only way to have knowledge is to have a degree??? What kind of elitist crap is that?
Yeah I have read your posts both here and on anabolex and you are very, very, knowledgable. But that doesn't mean that Animal isn't!
Hell, I am not a certified trainer, but I guarantee you that I have more knowledge then ((% of the certified trainers out there( I have met exactly one in my area who had half of a clue).
I could buy a degree online but i still wouldn't know shit about chemistry...for that i depend on Animal!

It is possible to learn alot outside of a formal education, I agree. When it comes to organic chemistry however I consider it just about impossible to gain decent knowledge without spending many years in school. This is not "elitist crap", it is just reality

 

[lanky]

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