Question about bulking and carbs

[Tom Treutlein]

Is it necessary to intake carbs to put on mass? What if one is eating 20.3xBW in calories, 290 grams of carbs, but most are sugar? I'm intaking 305 grams of protein daily, and about 110 fats maybe. I forgot the exact numbers and I'm not looking at my spreadsheet. Anyway, will I grow? I'm hearing now that if I don't have enough quality carbs I won't put on size. I don't see how this can be true. First it's "you need an excess of calories" and a certain amount of protein. Now I'm hearing that a lot of those calories must be carbs, or you won't grow. What gives? I'm not deprived of carbs entirely, as you can see, but I don't have a bunch of complex ones in there.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Anyone?

 

[supersizeme]

no, you won't grow muscle off simple carbs like sugar. if that was true, we'd all be pounding sodas and hershey bars instead of oatmeal, rice, or pasta. you need quality complex carbs like the ones i just listed in order to build muscle. and yes, you do need carbs to put on mass. protein is the tool to build muscle, while carbs provide the fuel to facilitate the growth as well as your workouts. it's not simply about exceeding your caloric maintenance level. you have to do it with a combination of quality food(protein, complex carbs, healthy fats) in order for the weight gain to be muscle, otherwise it's going to be mostly fat.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Well, that's good to know for sure now. Very good post, K for you man. Thanks!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

By the way man, since you knew that maybe you know this: Do you need solid food to grow? Or can liquid calories cause growth?

 

[casualbb]

Calories are calories.

Liquid is just fine b0r, as long as it's a good complete source of protein and/or low GI carbs.

Hell, liquid calories is one of the best-kept secrets of bulking. When you feel like you'd die before you could take another bite of chicken, you can always swallow a shake without issues.

 

[supersizeme]

like casualbb said, you can effectively grow off liquid food. however it's not nearly as good as putting down real food. my six meals a day are 4 real food meals and two that are basically shakes. it's difficult to eat 6-7 meals of actual food per day, which is why liquid calories are a savior. however you don't want to get to the point where you're eating more liquid meals a day than real food.

the basic rule of thumb in training - if it's harder, it's probably more effective(e.g. compound exercises) - applies to diet as well. it's harder to eat the real food, but it's more effective.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I have more liquid meals than solid meals. I hear ya', that they're prolly better (solid ones) but could you explain why?

 

[bigp3]

Alright here are the basics I have found over the years and I hope this helps.

Avoid sugar like the plague unless you want to be a fatty or a diabetic when you hit 50. The only time to take in sugar would be postworkout. Thats it never any other time.

As for your meals try not to mix fats and carbs. The key is to eat high fat low carb meals or low fat high carb meals. When you mix fats and carbs together you body will produce an insulin spike and if fats are in the blood it tends to push them into the fat stores.

Always keep your protein high. I would strive for 2 grams per lb of bodyweight. 1.5 works fine for some people but I personally perfer 2 grams. Your protien should come in quality forms such as chicken, lean steak, tuna, eggs.

I recomend 6 meals a day like most guys on here. I think this is reasonable and doable by most people. I would do 3 high carb meals, 2 high fat meals, and one low car low fat high protein meal before bed. Your high carb meals shoul your post workout shake, the meal you eat after your post workout shake and breakfast.

Hope this helps

 

[Tom Treutlein]

So I should avoid the sugar in milk too, yes?

I heard it's okay to mix fats and carbs due to the fact that the fats digest more slowly, and by the time it is in the bloodstream, the insulin spike will have faded.

 

[bigp3]

not good at all to mix fats and carbs especially simple carbs. I can attest to this personally. If you want to keep your fat gain to a minimum while bulking dont do it. You can't really count on when your insulin spike will hit its peak so the idea that fats with carbs is okay is not that solid. Try eating this way and you will see the changes in your body. You will get harder and bigger at the same time.

This is what I like to tell people about bulk diets. Eat like you would if you were cutting only more of it. It is not an excuse to hit McDonalds every day. Believe me I have made that mistake and will never do it again. A cheat meal a few times a week is not going to kill you. Like I said just avoid the sugar. A pint of Ben & Jerry's or Dunkin Donuts are never productive muscle builders.

You can get away with milk if you so choose. You have to realize that milk is going to smooth you out, but it tends to go away within a few weeks of dropping the milk from your diet. I usually have a glass of milk with my morning meal of oatmeal, procomplex and egg beaters.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Okay, then I'll try not to mix them. I have about 8 glasses of milk a day, I'm guessing that's too much. I'll cut it down.

Then comes PB&J - I'm guessing the jelly isn't the best idea, and is best replaced with pasta or rice. THat being the case, can I use soy sauce or hot sauce or tomato sauce, or something good to put on my rice and pasta to make it better?

Finally, I was wondering what I should do on non-training days. You guys seem to have some pretty solid info. Should I lower my caloric intake? Should I take in more protein and less carbs? Only one carb meal, instead of 3? Maybe in the A.M. to stop myself from adding too much fat, since I won't be using the carbs that day...

 

[bigp3]

usually what I do on the off day is just sub in another high carb low fat meal instead of my post workout shake. I keep the calories pretty much the same. They may be a tad less. Don't drop all your carb meals on off days you will flatten out in a hurry. It is bad enough when you have to do it cutting don't do it while bulking. I say always get 3 in and maybe just make them your first 3 meals on off days

Whew, 8 glasses of farts I mean milk bro. Good god I would hate to be locked in a room with you. The PB&J is not a good idea IMO. I think it might be okay if you are a real hardgainer, but I would not do it all that often. Here is my take on that Peanut butter as long as it is natural pb without sugar is okay to add in with your high fat meal. You have to remember PB is high in fat and you probably don't want to mix it with carbs not to mention it is not that great of a source of protein.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

It is natural PB. Milk gives gas? Good god, maybe that explains it! My stomach is always rumbling somewhat. I'm not lactose intolerant though, but maybe it still does that to me.

Anyway, good call with the carbs. What would you recommend for cardio to keep the fat gains nil? Is there a way, in your opinion, to do this while bulking? Not gain any fat...or such a minor amount? I don't feel it's healthy to flucuate in weight so much, and I'm looking to be able to eat pretty consistently all year round while slowly, steadily getting larger and stronger, but being lean.

 

[bigp3]

There is no way to bulk without gaining fat in my opinion. Being leaner at the begining of your bulking phase will limit your fat gain. As for cardio, I would not get too carried away with it when bulking. It kind of defeats the purpose. I would maybe do some light cardio 20 minutes or so 1 or 2 times a week. Something like walking or light cycling.

One more thing and yes milk causes farts,,, lol. It is the lactose!!!

 

[casualbb]

All humans are lactose intolerant to some degree. I personally drink tons of milk, but with tons of farts as well.

 

[b fold the truth]

I don't think that all kcals are equal.

At every meal..I try to get the following:
40-70 grams Prot
70-140 grams carbs (mostly all complex)
whatever fat comes with it (adding veg and olive oil now)

I eat 5-8 meals like this a day and when I contest nears I will take in upwards of 1,000 kcals per day of carbs.

Also...people will tell you that you should eat between 1 and 2 grams per pound of bodyweight per day in prot. I don't think that this is entirely accurrate. I think that one should look at LEAN BODY MASS instead of just weight in this case.

Just my opinion though. I'm for sure not a diet expert.

B True

 

[JKurz1]

I don't think that all kcals are equal.

At every meal..I try to get the following:
40-70 grams Prot
70-140 grams carbs (mostly all complex)
whatever fat comes with it (adding veg and olive oil now)

I eat 5-8 meals like this a day and when I contest nears I will take in upwards of 1,000 kcals per day of carbs.

Also...people will tell you that you should eat between 1 and 2 grams per pound of bodyweight per day in prot. I don't think that this is entirely accurrate. I think that one should look at LEAN BODY MASS instead of just weight in this case.

Just my opinion though. I'm for sure not a diet expert.

B True

ON POINT! Good post..........who makes up these rules "no fats and carbs", etc.......balance is the key to everything......keep at it bro

 

[bigp3]

I agree that your macronutrient values should be calculated from your lean body mass.

 

[jj23]

Anyone tried throwing Glucorell R into the mix? Results?

 

[bigp3]

yes I use glucorell R and love it. I don't know if it has majorly helped me with my carb absorbtion or not that is a hard thing to tell. I am leaner since using it but I have bumped up my cardio too so who knows what cause what. I can say this for sure though, that it has dropped my liver values dramatically. That in itself should be enough to sell most of us on it.

 

[jj23]

Funny I have done the same thing and questioned whether it was working or not. Thing is, I started doing more cardio the day I started on t-rex, 10 days later and I was actually up .5lbs! So then I started Glucorell R and dropped 6lbs the following week (probably water). Now I can't tell shit now starting this cycle, nor do I really care I guess...

 

[Tom Treutlein]

If one was to use Glucorell R, when would a pill be taken? I see a $40 bottle has 120 pills, so if that's only one pill a day I might look into it.

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

i have seen many people rubbish what bigp3 is saying about keeping fats and carbs seperate.However,as an endo meso i can attest that it certainly is true in my case..he is right on the money. I actually eat 90% of my carbs pre and post workout an hour each side...i KNOW i can eat more cals this way and not get fat where i would if i didn't do so

 

[jj23]

If one was to use Glucorell R, when would a pill be taken? I see a $40 bottle has 120 pills, so if that's only one pill a day I might look into it.

Supposed to take 1 cap per 30g of carbs. I take 3 before a 100g carb breakfast then the stated dose whenever I know I'll eat some carbs.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Pshh, fuck that. Way too expensive.

 

[jj23]

$22 for 120 caps if you use the afdiscount code over at anabolicfitness.

 

[bigp3]

i have seen many people rubbish what bigp3 is saying about keeping fats and carbs seperate.However,as an endo meso i can attest that it certainly is true in my case..he is right on the money. I actually eat 90% of my carbs pre and post workout an hour each side...i KNOW i can eat more cals this way and not get fat where i would if i didn't do so

The thing with not mixing carbs and fats may not apply to people that have an ecto somatotype. But for you and I it is needed to be done this way. I am an endo meso also and I know I get fat as fuck when I mix carbs and fat especially simple carbs. Everyone responds differently, but I say if you fear getting fat then this is a good policy to follow. I know I can jam in a lot more cals this way without becoming a lard ass.

 

[bigp3]

If one was to use Glucorell R, when would a pill be taken? I see a $40 bottle has 120 pills, so if that's only one pill a day I might look into it.

I typically take one or two caps 10 to 15 minutes before any carb heavy meal. Now I am still unclear as to whether it is okay to take with your PW shake. I don't know if this would interfere with the insulin spike in anyway or not. Maybe someone could clear that one up. Right now though, I take it with my shake, but if I find out otherwise I will stop.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

If I get them, I'll use them simply for the 75 grams of dextrose I plan to take in post-workout. This sound good?

 

[bran987]

The way I understand it, after workout is the only time you want a spike. Get things to absorb real real quick. Dextrose makes you spike. So stopping it wouldn't be good.

Glucorell is for the other times you eat carbs, and want to avoid a spike.. when you want things just slow and steady.

Then again I am just learning as I go, this could be totally wrong.

If you use the afdiscount code, you can get 240 Glucorell-R caps for $39.

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

The thing with not mixing carbs and fats may not apply to people that have an ecto somatotype. But for you and I it is needed to be done this way. I am an endo meso also and I know I get fat as fuck when I mix carbs and fat especially simple carbs. Everyone responds differently, but I say if you fear getting fat then this is a good policy to follow. I know I can jam in a lot more cals this way without becoming a lard ass.

Amen to that. People don't realise that it isn't just about cals...that really can eat a bit more and actually get/stay leaner using this system.