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Question about 5x5 workouts.
- Thread starter LoneTree
- Start date
Tom Treutlein
New member
If you mean Madcow's variation (though, I know, it's not really his, but it's just easier to identify it that way), then you need to go read the huge thread discussing it. You will see how to set up the weights for your routine there.
As for rest - as long as you need, really. I wouldn't let that extend past 4-5 minutes, but I believe some others have.
As for rest - as long as you need, really. I wouldn't let that extend past 4-5 minutes, but I believe some others have.
I have read that, and am not impressed with Madcow or Bill Starr's method.Tom Treutlein said:
I just realised that I was already doing it, except for I was doing 8 reps, with last 3 sets at full strength till frailure.
He was foot-ball strength training coach. It may not apply to all situations.
There are two other variations that I have seen:
Arnold Swartznigger's: 4-5 sets, with 12-10-8-6-4 reps at full strength. One day I did one of his 'super-sets', and was out of commission for the whole weekend.
American Sports Medicine Association: Very similar, with less than 2 minutes rest between sets. I think I would go with that.
lonetree what is your level of training? a beginner/somewhat intermediate can succeed on single factor training, but someone becoming more intermediate advance usually won't benefit much from single factor training. you really need to use something that involves progressive overload, deconditioning, and repeating.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Supersetting doesn't add any muscle building benefit. Mayhems, stop spewing garbage.
I would always do progressive overloading. I am already doing it. I just discovered by chance that my workout is much better with it. But I always thought that it is just 'warm up'.view said:
Irrespective of my status, I do a lot of research and read as much as I can.
Progressive load is fine as I said. But you have to do at least 3-4 sets with max weight till failure at the end.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Says who? I don't know where you're getting your information from, but I'd suggest you do a lot more research.
LoneTree said:
Say what you want about me but Jesus man, you do realize that he coached mutliple pro teams, multiple collegiate programs (not just football), and held records in OL and PL. If you talk to any even remotely serious student of exercise science - that guy is the man. He is as good as anyone has ever been at that job. Incidentally one of a strength coach's tasks is adding LBM to athletes in a time constrained environment and since most BBers are more worried about adding muscle than tweaking cosmetic varriances - that's a pretty good match. He actually was regularly reprinted in one of those BBing rags for a years (Ironman I think - maybe his articles are still in there that's the only reason I used to pick it up). He's in Milo 3x yearly.
Anyway, the beauty of freedom is you can do what you want and think what you want (I just can't let you run around with misconceptions about Starr being strictly a football only coach) but I will provide you with a short list of excellent training books in the linked post. They are the "goto" books on training for anyone who is seriously interested in learning about weight training and exercise science. You will notice that Arnold's name is not on there. It isn't even close - he is respected as a great BBer but the state of BBing doesn't require one to know much about training as long as you are willing to increase your dosage to compensate. This list it ultra-common and is required reading for serious students of weight training. With few exceptions this is the best America and the world have to offer on the subject of training.
www.elitefts.com (no particular order)
A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting
Fundmentals of Special Strength Training in Sport
Supertraining
Managing the Training of Weightlifters
Science and Practice of Strength Training
blut wump
New member
That was the problem with what you were doing. The dual factor method requires that you leave a rep or two in the tank on most of your workouts. Once you start messing about going to failure on a regular basis you've detroyed the underlying progressive overloading and fatigue acquisition of the methodology.LoneTree said:
With regard to your rest period betweens sets on a 5x5, while you should be acquiring fatigue from set to set you shouldn't have been exhausted by a previous set. During most of the loading phase, a rest of 1-2 minutes should be adequate. The intensity phase might require slightly longer rests.
With regard to the duaf-factor system itself, I became increasingly receptive to the plan once I started looking at articles by strength coaches and strength athletes. I also got a major jolt when I was discussing equine training with someone. Her horse was being trained with exactly the same principles of progressive overload followed by a deload phase and an increased intensity phase.
Another system which is of interest to me is Westside with its conjugate periodization system. I've only just started reading up on Westside but, if you ignore the bands and chains lifting-specific stuff, it basically seems to be running intensity, loading and endurance training concurrently 52 weeks a year.
I didn't clarify and appropriately described Arnold's method:
1st set: 15 reps to failire
2nd set: increase weight: 10 reps to failure
3rd set: increase weight: 8 reps to failure
4th set: increase weight: 6 reps to failure
5th set: same weight, 4-6 reps.
The less time you give between the sets, the higher would be the intensity of workout.
I am doing every muscle group twice a week.
And I increase weight in every work out.
1st set: 15 reps to failire
2nd set: increase weight: 10 reps to failure
3rd set: increase weight: 8 reps to failure
4th set: increase weight: 6 reps to failure
5th set: same weight, 4-6 reps.
The less time you give between the sets, the higher would be the intensity of workout.
I am doing every muscle group twice a week.
And I increase weight in every work out.
blut wump
New member
While you are able to increase weight from workout to workout, I'd say stick with it but keep an eye out for knackering fatigue which might creep up on you.
There should come a point when this type of workout just doesn't cut it for you with regards to continuing to get stronger. At that time you might want to take a look at something like the 5x5. Meanwhile there's the routine madcow gives in post #15 on the thread which you might find a worthwhile change if you get stale with the Arnold workout.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215
There should come a point when this type of workout just doesn't cut it for you with regards to continuing to get stronger. At that time you might want to take a look at something like the 5x5. Meanwhile there's the routine madcow gives in post #15 on the thread which you might find a worthwhile change if you get stale with the Arnold workout.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215
I am only doing it while I am on AAS. I was not getting results and I want to push it.
I am not the only one who thinks that people are not pushing enough while on AAS.
Once I am off, I would be on maintenance program.
And I would give a try to 5x5. That's definitely better than just working out one part once a week.
I am not the only one who thinks that people are not pushing enough while on AAS.
Once I am off, I would be on maintenance program.
And I would give a try to 5x5. That's definitely better than just working out one part once a week.
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