Putting Together Strength Routines

[highoctane]

So I've been thinking a lot about what Treilin said in my Progress Thread, regarding breaking my workouts into Back, Legs, Chest/Arms/Abs, Shoulders/Abs, Back/Shoulders, etc. And it's been a pretty quiet morning here at work, so I've had some time to do some research...but I must admit, I didn't major in anatomy, so I'm not quite sure how to go about building the best program in terms of effectiveness.

The program I'm currently working with is a circuit routine, that basically trained my whole body in one session. I like the idea of splitting it up (because it means I can increase my time on the weights at the gym each week), but am looking for some friendly advice.

Do any of you have any suggestions on good start programs for all of the above splits?

 

[gymmum]

Have you tried looking through the thread The Shadow Project. I along with many other girls on here are following this program with good results.

 

[Sassy69]

Browse around exrx.net -- this is a great reference for different exercises by muscle group as well as building a program. The Shadow Project is a great program all laid out. There are also several strength-oriented programs / approaches in the Training Vault sticky on the Training Board.

 

[highoctane]

I knew that. (dumbass moment)

 

[Daisy_Girl]

I like the idea of splitting it up (because it means I can increase my time on the weights at the gym each week), but am looking for some friendly advice.

Do any of you have any suggestions on good start programs for all of the above splits?

I am not sure what exactly you mean by "increase your time" with weights. Remember, more time does not equal better results. You need to concentrate on maximizing time at the gym with smart exercise choices and heavy lifting. A good weight training only routine is rarely over an hour. Usually is around 45 minutes or quite possibly less.

I really like this basic split/routine:
Monday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Wednesday - Back/Biceps
Friday - Legs

Or you can do:
Monday - Chest/Back
Wednesday - Shoulders (and Legs, or have Legs their own day on Saturday or Sunday)
Friday - Biceps/Triceps
Saturday or Sunday - can be Leg only day if you do not combine it w. Shoudlers


There are so many combos ..... it is easy to make your head hurt coming up with combinations. Basically, you need to get a program together and execute it for a few weeks and see how it works for YOU.

 

[highoctane]

I am not sure what exactly you mean by "increase your time" with weights. Remember, more time does not equal better results. You need to concentrate on maximizing time at the gym with smart exercise choices and heavy lifting. A good weight training only routine is rarely over an hour. Usually is around 45 minutes or quite possibly less.

I really like this basic split/routine:
Monday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Wednesday - Back/Biceps
Friday - Legs

Or you can do:
Monday - Chest/Back
Wednesday - Shoulders (and Legs, or have Legs their own day on Saturday or Sunday)
Friday - Biceps/Triceps
Saturday or Sunday - can be Leg only day if you do not combine it w. Shoudlers


There are so many combos ..... it is easy to make your head hurt coming up with combinations. Basically, you need to get a program together and execute it for a few weeks and see how it works for YOU.

I understand that. What I meant was currently my weeks only consist of 2 days of weight training. So by increased time, I don't mean useless time, I simply meant that my time in the gym on weights would be increased. IE. 4 days instead of 2, etc.

The split I'm putting together is pretty much exactly what you listed. After doing some reading I decided on Back/Bi, Chest/Shoulder/Tri, and Legs. I want to post the routines when I'm done to gather some constructive feedback. Also, when I start this new rotation, I have committed to myself that I would stay on it for 4 weeks straight without changing anything (unless something is painful obviously) to see what the results are.

Thanks for the post Daisy.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

I understand that. What I meant was currently my weeks only consist of 2 days of weight training. So by increased time, I don't mean useless time, I simply meant that my time in the gym on weights would be increased. IE. 4 days instead of 2, etc.

The split I'm putting together is pretty much exactly what you listed. After doing some reading I decided on Back/Bi, Chest/Shoulder/Tri, and Legs. I want to post the routines when I'm done to gather some constructive feedback. Also, when I start this new rotation, I have committed to myself that I would stay on it for 4 weeks straight without changing anything (unless something is painful obviously) to see what the results are.

Thanks for the post Daisy.

Ah, got it.

I really like the Push/Pull split. Focusing on compound movements is the key - don't waste a lot of time with tons and tons of isolation movements.

There should be some sample routines in the sticky at the top .... "LINKS TO TOP THREADS" and the Shadow Project might be another good place to look.

 

[highoctane]

Ok here it is. Feedback would be appreciated.

Legs & Shoulders:

• Barbell Lunges
• Single Leg Split Squats
• Leg Press
• Leg Extension
• Hyperextension
• Deadlifts
• Leg Curls (Lying)
• Calf Raises
• Reverse Calf Press
• Shoulder Press
• Front Raises
• Upright Rows
• Lateral Raises
• Lying Rear Delt Rows

Back & Bis:

• Seated Rows (Lever)
• Chin Ups
• Close Grip Pull Downs
• Shrugs
• Barbell Curls
• Preacher Curls
• Prone Incline Curls
• Hammer Curls
• Wrist Curls
• Reverse Wrist Curls

Chest & Tris:

• Flys
• Push Ups
• Incline Press
• Decline Press
• Dips
• Close Grip Bench Press
• Skull Crushers
• Tricep Extensions
• Kickbacks

These are listed all together, as in they aren't split, however when I work through each of these I would alternate. IE. Chest exercise, tri exercise, chest exercise, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Too much isolation and volume if your looking to build strength.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

This is what I would do...
Legs and Shoulders
Squats
DB stiff leg deads
standing calf raise
Standing miltary press or hammer strength shoulder press
Drop set side laterals

Back and biceps
Chins or assisted chins or rack chins
One arms row or t-bar row
Hammer curls
Ez curls or prechers

Chest and tries
Incline or decline bench or hammer
DB flys flat or incline
Smith close grip bench
Press downs

For everything but side laterals and pressdowns I would do this:
1 warm ups set hit 10-12 reps easy light weight
then works set of 8 hard reps
then add more weight 6 hard reps
add more weight 3 hard reps

Side lateral drops sets I do like so
DB's 17.5 15 12 first set I might hit 8 reps for each weight I rest long enough just to catch my breath 2nd set maybe get 6-7 for each 3 set again rest enough to catch breat and lucky to get 4-5 on each weight.

Press downs I do one giant drop set starting at
150 x failure
120 x failure
90 x failure
75 x failure
60 x failure

 

[highoctane]

This is what I would do...
Legs and Shoulders
Squats
DB stiff leg deads
standing calf raise
Standing miltary press or hammer strength shoulder press
Drop set side laterals

Back and biceps
Chins or assisted chins or rack chins
One arms row or t-bar row
Hammer curls
Ez curls or prechers

Chest and tries
Incline or decline bench or hammer
DB flys flat or incline
Smith close grip bench
Press downs

For everything but side laterals and pressdowns I would do this:
1 warm ups set hit 10-12 reps easy light weight
then works set of 8 hard reps
then add more weight 6 hard reps
add more weight 3 hard reps

Side lateral drops sets I do like so
DB's 17.5 15 12 first set I might hit 8 reps for each weight I rest long enough just to catch my breath 2nd set maybe get 6-7 for each 3 set again rest enough to catch breat and lucky to get 4-5 on each weight.

Press downs I do one giant drop set starting at
150 x failure
120 x failure
90 x failure
75 x failure
60 x failure

It seems like so little. Mind you that's coming from someone who is asking for advice right. Is that enough to start making major changes towards my goals? (Miss Naive, right here )

My second question would be, would you do one day of each (so 3 days of strength training)? Or would you double up on any one of them? Thoughts?

 

[superqt4u2nv]

It seems like so little. Mind you that's coming from someone who is asking for advice right. Is that enough to start making major changes towards my goals? (Miss Naive, right here )

My second question would be, would you do one day of each (so 3 days of strength training)? Or would you double up on any one of them? Thoughts?

KISS (Keep It Simple ..... )

Your trying to build strength right? How do you think all of those isolation exercise would bring you strength? Answer they wont. Only thing that is going to bring strenth is low volume compound movements hence leading with squats more is not better.

Also forgot to add that on all the pyramid movements you would be adding 5lbs to each lift every week.

 

[highoctane]

KISS (Keep It Simple ..... )

Your trying to build strength right? How do you think all of those isolation exercise would bring you strength? Answer they wont. Only thing that is going to bring strenth is low volume compound movements hence leading with squats more is not better.

Also forgot to add that on all the pyramid movements you would be adding 5lbs to each lift every week.

Well, the main goals are strength and definition. The point is to cut the extra layers of fat I have right now (I start looking tighter around 130lbs/135lbs), and reveal what I would be working so hard for. Does that make any sense at all? Some that I have spoken to say that I should be working on mass now, and cutting when I'm 20 weeks out from November 10th, but I'm still not sure what that looks like 100% yet.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

More does NOT equal better. The more time you spend lifting does not mean you get better results.

A good lifting routine RARELY takes over an hour and includes little isolation work. Focus on compound movements. Compound movements are ones that involve more than one joint action - i.e., squats: they move the hip, knee and ankle joints. They involve the MOST muscle groups, thereby maximizing the exercise time. Isolation movements involve one joint action - i.e., leg curl: moves the knee joint only, focuses on ONE muscle group (hams).

Isolation work certainly has it's place. It is certainly useful. But the MOST TIME should be spent on compound movements. That is where you gain a lot of strength and growth. Not to mention, it is more "real world" useful and can help build core strength and total body awareness.

I mean - SERIOUSLY - you do SIX DIFFERENT exercises JUST for Biceps? Holy Cow. Do you realize HOW SMALL the bicep muscle group is? I really would not do more than 2 different moves for Biceps. Even for Legs you are doing a helluva lot of things.

I really think you need to pare down and focus on some BASICS, rather than putzing around with all the simple movements. I think you will see a lot more growth and results if you drop the endless isolation work and focus on the BIG MOVEMENTS.

For example .....

Chest
Pushups - for warm up (I love doing this, helps build core strength)
DB Incline Press
Flies (I like the machine for flies, but that is because I have a cranky R shoulder)
*Could also do BB or DB Chest Press

Back
Lat Pulldown (I like the Hammer Strength plate loaded machine)
Pullups
Row - Like QT said, T-Bar is great if your gym has one
(Deadlifts can go here too)

Shoulders
DB OH Press
Upright Row
Lateral Raise

Biceps
BB Curl (EZ bar if you have one)
Concentration Curl
*I hate Preacher Curls, kills my elbows for some reason, always has.

Triceps
Dips
Skullcrusher

Legs
Deadlifts (also can be for Back)
Lunges, lunges lunges - so many choices .... walking, stationary, weighted, unweighted, backwards, they are just awesome
Squats

To hit calves - run some stairs or do a little jumproping. Even adding a day of Plyometrics can kill your calves.

My favorite split is still
Mon - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps (not alternating between muscles, doing each group at a time)
Weds - Back/Biceps
Fri - Legs

But you could also do....

Mon - Chest/Should
Weds - Back/Legs
Fri - Biceps/Triceps

OR

Mon - Chest/Back
Weds - Shoulders
Fri - Biceps/Triceps
Sat - Legs


Your split should be based on maximizing your time and best suited for your goals. For example, my legs never need a lot of work. Even as fat as I am (lol) I have a nice quad sweep, a curve in my hams and my gastroc is still heart shaped. So I NEVER spend a lot of tiem on legs, so I can always lump them in with something else. But since they are so built, I have always needed to work harder on my upper body, to balance out. You need to look at what areas you are weaker and make those days a focused workout.

SOOOO.... If your shoulders need to be brought up more, then you might be better suited to have shoulders be worked alone, so you can really kill them. If your lower body is weaker, then legs should be worked (killed) alone. Does that make sense?

 

[highoctane]

LOL it was first kick at the cat damnit! Let me go back to the drawing board and put something together from your (Daisy's) and QTs posts and we'll see if I do a better job this time, hahaha.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Well, the main goals are strength and definition. The point is to cut the extra layers of fat I have right now (I start looking tighter around 130lbs/135lbs), and reveal what I would be working so hard for. Does that make any sense at all? Some that I have spoken to say that I should be working on mass now, and cutting when I'm 20 weeks out from November 10th, but I'm still not sure what that looks like 100% yet.

Are you looking at competing in the Ottawa and Eastern Champs? If so figure, fitness or BB?

 

[highoctane]

Are you looking at competing in the Ottawa and Eastern Champs? If so figure, fitness or BB?

Yes, and figure. Long way out I know...but when there's a date on something it always makes it a bit more real right.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Yes, and figure. Long way out I know...but when there's a date on something it always makes it a bit more real right.

Yup I would tend to agree with the advice you were given keep building now and start cutting 20 weeks out. What is your current bf% at?

 

[highoctane]

Yup I would tend to agree with the advice you were given keep building now and start cutting 20 weeks out. What is your current bf% at?

I only have Tanita figures for Body Fat right now...and I've heard they aren't so accurate (I freakin hope not). I'll probably have my first caliper set done at some point this week if not next weekend (have a weekend off finally). I also need to take my measurements and just haven't made time for that yet (the days kinda just flow together sometimes and before I know it it's the 18th and I've been posting on the log since the 5th...who knew?!).

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I only have Tanita figures for Body Fat right now...and I've heard they aren't so accurate (I freakin hope not). I'll probably have my first caliper set done at some point this week if not next weekend (have a weekend off finally). I also need to take my measurements and just haven't made time for that yet (the days kinda just flow together sometimes and before I know it it's the 18th and I've been posting on the log since the 5th...who knew?!).

For sure go buy a caliper measurement on bf%. I took a look at your log don't focus on the number on the scales too much as they don't mean squat on stage. Focus on how you look in the mrror. If you get a chance check out some of the shows this spring summer to get an idea what the judges are looking for last year it was tight and tiny. I have feeling this year will be the same.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

LOL it was first kick at the cat damnit! Let me go back to the drawing board and put something together from your (Daisy's) and QTs posts and we'll see if I do a better job this time, hahaha.

LOL @ "kick at the cat" That is funny.

No worries - not trying to bring you down or be a biatch. I think you are doing the right thing - seeking input and trying to come up with a good routine.

 

[highoctane]

Ok, so revised. Pretty much the exact same thing the two of you said to me. I want to start this today, so tonight will consist of Chest/Shoulders/Triceps and a Body Combat class.

Monday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Wednesday - Back/Biceps
Friday - Legs

Chest
Pushups
DB Incline Press
Flys
BB Chest Press

Shoulders
DB OH Press
Upright Row
Lateral Raise

Triceps
Dips
Skullcrushers

Back
Lat Pulldown
Pullups
Rows
Deadlifts

Biceps
BB Curl
Concentration Curl

Legs
Deadlifts
Lunges
Squats
Calf Raises


Now to add to this, I'm toying with the idea of trying to fit in a 30 minute run every morning at the gym, and filling in the other days with either plain cardio, or a class (IE. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday).

So my next question is, since I seem to have learned how to "dumb down" my concept of strength training...what is the best cardio cycle to put into the mix here? At this point I'm pretty much up for trying anything. I think I'll keep Saturday as my day of rest/cheat meal day...which like I have said in previous posts is a whole new concept to me...but none the less.

Whatever I commit to in this thread I'll keep for exactly 1 month to guage my response to it. Which means March 19th, 2007 would be the end date of the 1 month run. Setting a time line like this will help me with perspective. I keep thinking "November" and it gets completely overwhelming. I'd like to get my BF% done tonight, and measure...as well as take progress pics so that 4 weeks later when I do my next set I can see where I land. I almost feel like not weighing myself until that time too. I find that lately the scale does a pretty good job of screwing with me mentally.

Anyways...once again, thoughts/comments/input appreciated.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

My thoughts on tonight:
Warm up with push ups
BB Bench Press
Flys
Dips
Skullcrushers
DB OH Press
Lateral Raise

Just a note I haven't done any Shoulder Press at ALLl in the past month only side laterals and my shoulders have grown. I tried like crazy last year to get my shoulders to grow did tons and tons of diffrent splits for them the grew a little but not near much as they have in the past month.

 

[treilin]

Ok, so revised. Pretty much the exact same thing the two of you said to me. I want to start this today, so tonight will consist of Chest/Shoulders/Triceps and a Body Combat class.

Monday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Wednesday - Back/Biceps
Friday - Legs

Chest
Pushups
DB Incline Press
Flys
BB Chest Press

Shoulders
DB OH Press
Upright Row
Lateral Raise

Triceps
Dips
Skullcrushers

Back
Lat Pulldown
Pullups
Rows
Deadlifts

Biceps
BB Curl
Concentration Curl

Legs
Deadlifts
Lunges
Squats
Calf Raises


Now to add to this, I'm toying with the idea of trying to fit in a 30 minute run every morning at the gym, and filling in the other days with either plain cardio, or a class (IE. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday).

So my next question is, since I seem to have learned how to "dumb down" my concept of strength training...what is the best cardio cycle to put into the mix here? At this point I'm pretty much up for trying anything. I think I'll keep Saturday as my day of rest/cheat meal day...which like I have said in previous posts is a whole new concept to me...but none the less.

Whatever I commit to in this thread I'll keep for exactly 1 month to guage my response to it. Which means March 19th, 2007 would be the end date of the 1 month run. Setting a time line like this will help me with perspective. I keep thinking "November" and it gets completely overwhelming. I'd like to get my BF% done tonight, and measure...as well as take progress pics so that 4 weeks later when I do my next set I can see where I land. I almost feel like not weighing myself until that time too. I find that lately the scale does a pretty good job of screwing with me mentally.

Anyways...once again, thoughts/comments/input appreciated.

My added thoughts...

I don't see any post shoulder work. You may want to add in reverse pec dec, or bent over DB flys.

If you are going to do deadlifts for both back and legs.... I think it's kind of redundant. If you do decide to do it I would make sure there is plenty of days between the 2 work-outs. From wed to friday your hams will still be fatigued more then likely.
Have you decided what kind of deadlift you want to do?
You could always do wide grip and close grip pull downs to hit the back differently. Rows you can do to waist or to chest level to also hit different aspects.

What kind of calf raises are you going to do? Standing and seated?!? If you do seated you will not be hitting your gastroc since the knee will not be straight. If you do standing then you will be hitting the soleus to a less degree. I would probably do both and I have seen substantial increase and definition in my calves from doing both.

On squats... I'm not sure of your background strength but I would probably place those up higher even before deadlifts just because you then can tackle them with all your energy, won't be fatigued, can concentrate on form more, and won't have to worry about falling over.

O.k. I know lots of questions but just like we talked about get it down, just do it, and then re-adjust.

Oh and more cardio is not necessarily better. Try 3 days of HIIT like laid out in the shadow plan... and adjust intensity each week.

 

[florencia]

WOW!!! I want to hit the gym after reading this!!! Good Luck!