proving creaction with living dinosaurs

[big_bad_buff]

well i deleted my last thread because i found this link, someone is already doing what i thought of...this is very interesting, and thought i would share it with you hoes. first i believe there is no such thing as a dinosaur, they were just reptiles (lizards etc.) that never stopped growing, think if a lizard lived 500 years. they continue to grow untill they die.....anyways i believe there going to grow some sort of lizard in this tank..so we will see EH!!!

the museum is building a suitably titanic "hyperbaric biosphere," in which it hopes to reproduce "Earth's original pre-Flood environment" — lots of oxygen, lots of atmospheric pressure — and grow dinosaurs.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/TXGLEcreation.html

 

[casavant]

I read the whole link. That is crazy. I'll kiss that man's fundamentalist Christian ass if he grows dinosaurs.

 

[gettinlarger]

There were dinosaurs. They were very large reptiles. You contradicted yourself.

 

[Priscoj]

This has bust written all over it more than ryan leif

 

[big_bad_buff]

There were dinosaurs. They were very large reptiles. You contradicted yourself.

i don't think there were a huge species of there own, i believe these movie monsters and fossils are just now day lizards that lived in these conditions, so they could grow that big.

if your interested
science itself will prove evolutionist wrong. read this and read the CANOPY link also. it explains how it was before the flood some what.

http://www.wwjd.net/iwitness/E_PREFLOOD_WORLD.html

one more thing...look up hyperbaric chambers and sports on the internet, sports players use these because they heal twice as fast while in them, ad the (canopy) you could replicate the canopy by living under 3 feet of concrete, or have some sort of water barrier to block the harmful rays of the sun. and imagine what would happen if you lived in one from the time your born. you dont hear about this because people don't want to prove creation to be right. here is a link to one:

http://www.cincinnatihyperbarics.com/

 

[big_bad_buff]

Bizup one last time

.

 

[Temple]

How does proving that the dinosaurs were actually lizards disprove evolution? If that is the case then why have they not found the bones of humans as we define them among those of the "lizards"?

 

[big_bad_buff]

How does proving that the dinosaurs were actually lizards disprove evolution? If that is the case then why have they not found the bones of humans as we define them among those of the "lizards"?

if someone on this board told you a good cycle to do, would you order it up, and start shootin up? or would you do some research to make sure it's right for you? you guys believe everything that "science" says don't you, and if it's not in a science book than it's not true, what you guys don't realize is that these guys aren't any smarter than me or you, they have a little college and then make stupid as guesses to try to prove that there is no god.......hey temple look it up on the net...here is one site i found in 2 seconds, there is proof of this showing up all the time.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm

 

[Temple]

Easy there BBB...it was just a question - I already know what I believe and it might surprise you. I am an evolutionery creationist however, I would not be considered "Christian" by most churches. That said I do think that overall the bible is historically fairly accurate...

 

[Priscoj]

BBB, I have to join in the question...what would this prove? How does this make it any more or less clear whether humans evolved from apes, or if god just magically created us?

Even if you could prove that man walked with dino's, it still doesn't disprove the possibility that man could have simply evolved from apes earlier than we thought.

And don't go saying, "there were no apes then, there are no fossils"....because we will say the same thing about humans.

 

[big_bad_buff]

-----this is for any evolutionist----


what makes you believe this? because you learned it growing up?, because everyone told you it was true? or is this what you believe on your own?. creationist or evolutionist, either or, you must study both to find out the true answer, if you think evolution is true, i would think that you have studied creation and all the facts, so you know you have proven it wrong. have you studied creation? probably not, and this is very stupid to be brain washed your whole life. you believe everything came from a big bang?. since when did bangs create life? anyways i love science, and i studied evolution for a while, and it was proven wrong very fast for me, i bought this video, i think it's the best video i'v seen, cost a lot, but i promise you'll think twice about thinking your family came from bacteria 100 billion years ago. anyways if you you don't know anything about creation and not willing to look into it, then just shut up because anything you say is not worth a damn.


http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=products&specific=joerqpk8

 

[Priscoj]

"anyways if you you don't know anything about creation and not willing to look into it, then just shut up because anything you say is not worth a damn. "

your debate skills are unparalleled

 

[big_bad_buff]

there is no debate my brotha, just let this post scroll down so no one will reply.

 

[Silent Method]

The "dinosaurs are just big lizards" theory is worthless. Call them purple cupcakes if you like. They were an specific type of organism that is now extinct. Big deal.

Why do you deny Gods omnipotence? Do you think it's beyond God to have created and evolving universe complete with evolving life. You understanding of God seems quite limited to me. Stop trying to put the creator in the box of confined human understanding.

 

[big_bad_buff]

The "dinosaurs are just big lizards" theory is worthless. Call them purple cupcakes if you like. They were an specific type of organism that is now extinct. Big deal.

i'm sure there was big guy, job 40:15-24 says so, but like you said BIG DEAL!!

were you talking to me when you said that "deny Gods omnipotence" speech?, because if that was directed towards me, your way off bucko brown!

 

[Lao Tzu]

why don't you wait? supposedly knowledge doubles every 15 years at our current rate. In 2017 we will know 2x what we currently know. Knowledge of physics doubles every 8 years. By 2009 we will know 2x as much about the universes origins. I'm open to creationism if the facts back it up, but i won't believe the judeochristian god had anything to do with it, or that the bible is a credible source of information.

I do not know what you are talking about. How can you grow dinosaurs by creating a tank of oxygen & atmospheric pressure?

your argument also rests on the idea that there was a mammoth flood that enveloped the world centuries ago. There are several theories on this. One is that many years ago there was water 1/2 mile deep under all of the earths crust, and that the crust broke pressurizing the water onto the earths surface. Another is that the black sea flooded around 7500 years ago. All the cultures migrated and carried the legend on with them, which is why african culture doesn't mention a flood, and asian culture does. In the end, we don't know enough to determine which one is true or not.

 

[big_bad_buff]

what you said means nothing, because you have no idea what your talking about, or what creation is, study it, and get back to me. UMMM never mind, you have to be open, and willing to see it, and understand. you guys dont want to believe in god, so you don't chose to see the truth, you would rather believe you came from bacteria than god, how stupid is that? and that is your decision, i'm done talking about all this, i think i just lost brain cells talking about evolution...OUT!

 

[Priscoj]

You gotta relax bro, and realize you are the one fighting science/fact. Most of your theories are based on faith, writings in an unreliable book, and what you feel is right.

This is the problem with fanatics, they have the uncanny ability to blatantly disregard the opinions of others under their haughty guise of religious belief...it sucks.

Gee, who knows more? Scientist today, breaking things down to the atomic and genetic level...or some monk thousands of years ago who drank dirty water, roamed a desert, thought the world was flat, foreigners were savages, gods made the crops grow, pigs were filthy animals, etc...

come on now, at least live in today. Like said above, it doesn't mean that God didn't make everything happen....it just means that humans (read: fallible) are quite capable of getting the story wrong. Didn't you ever play telephone when you were a kid? Well, your at the end of the longest telephone line EVER

 

[big_bad_buff]

You gotta relax bro,

i'm all perched over my keyboard sweating right now, and my face is bright red as i'm screeming the 10 commandments out as loud as i can, LOL sorry bro i'm not a new crazed fanatic reaching beast, this post got out of hand, i would rather this post scroll down so no one replies anymore, i would delete it but i can't now...YOU MODS CAN DELETE THIS AT WILL.

 

[Lao Tzu]

i'm not even going to waste my time with this. at least Dgreenhill could back up his arguments. You just assume anyone who isn't of your religion is full of shit. You are no better than hardline evolutionists.

What i say means something, you just don't care. YOu won't back up your arguments.

i prefer to believe i came from bacteria than from god because the evidence is more 'real' and 'tangible' and 'easy to prove'. Prove that god exists first, then we can talk about whether he created us.

 

[HappyScrappy]

big_bad_buff, while I'm all open for debate and intertesting new ideas... I'm gonna go out on a limb and just guess that you either never went to your bio classes, or if you did, you were totally lost.

It is far easier to say "I'm not a moron that can't understand basic scientific fact, it must be the basic scientific fact that is wrong"

the whole concept of "if there were not dinosaurs, therefore there must have been a creation" is... well, embarrassingly silly and shortsighted (for starters, you might say there are oh... other planets and quantum physics, etc that need to be explained as well in order to go with the whole creationism route - but... well, fuck that, way too hard - let's just run with the no dinosaurs = creationism).
I feel dumber for having wandered in here.

(although I must say it was a nice touch to not even spell it right in the title - the confidence inspired right of the bat was amazing)

 

[Y_lifter]

This Literal translation and Understanding of Genesis is probably the One area of my faith I struggle with.

I find it confusing with my knowledge of Biology to follow the Literal translation of God creating the Universe and the Earth in only 7 of our days.

I ask myself, How long is a "Day" to GOD ? 24 hours ?
I do buy that He created the Universe, All the creatures of the Earth First, and then he created Man in that order.

As far as the timetable and the exact workings of how it went,
that is a Mystery no one may ever know.

You can't argue with someones faith. It is not something that can be scientifically proven. Hence it being called FAITH !

 

[bigguns7]

This Literal translation and Understanding of Genesis is probably the One area of my faith I struggle with.

I find it confusing with my knowledge of Biology to follow the Literal translation of God creating the Universe and the Earth in only 7 of our days.

I ask myself, How long is a "Day" to GOD ? 24 hours ?
I do buy that He created the Universe, All the creatures of the Earth First, and then he created Man in that order.

What is so hard for you to swallow here?

 

[Y_lifter]

Originally posted by bigguns7
What is so hard for you to swallow here?

It not so much a Swallow issue, its just an area(timeframes) I don't fully understand or think was translated correctly.
I have done research on how the Bible was translated down through the centuries.

I know all the conflicting Scientific data about Carbon dating, fossil data etc saying the earth is Billions of years old.
And Genesis and the timeframes of years stating it was only a few hundred thousand I think.

Many question the Timeframes understood in Genesis and the other first 5 books of the OT.

 

[Silent Method]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Silent Method
The "dinosaurs are just big lizards" theory is worthless. Call them purple cupcakes if you like. They were an specific type of organism that is now extinct. Big deal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'm sure there was big guy, job 40:15-24 says so, but like you said BIG DEAL!!

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? That passage describes the "Behemoth," a creature unlike any that man knows today. What ever it was, presumable it is now extinct. So what?

were you talking to me when you said that "deny Gods omnipotence" speech?, because if that was directed towards me, your way off bucko brown!

Yes I was refering to you. Look, in a nutshell, what is your logical argument against evolution?

 

[Intenceman]

The evidence is oeverwhelming in favor of evolution. This doesn't mean you can't believe in whatever you want. Any attempt to pass it of as science just comes off as a bad joke to an educated person though, and hurts one's credibility.

 

[big_bad_buff]

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? That passage describes the "Behemoth," a creature unlike any that man knows today. What ever it was, presumable it is now extinct. So what?

[Reference: Job 40:15-24. “Behold now behemoth [dinosaur], which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: He that made him can make His sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.”
NOTE: Reason called ‘behemoth’ is that is the name given it by Adam during the naming process.]
Job lived immediately after the Flood. There is a 500 year period between the Flood and the birth of Abraham according to the genealogy in Genesis 11. Dinosaurs were made on the sixth day of Creation, along with the rest of the animals and with man. They were on the ark, exited the ark, and lived an estimated 300-400 years until life overall took a downward plunge. Man and dinosaur lived at the same time, both created by God.

Behemoth once was theorized to mean elephant or hippo. Note in verse 17 that its tail was like a cedar. This is incompatible with either in terms of length or thickness. Colors applied to dinosaurs are nothing more than educated guesswork, as no skin with pigments has ever been found.

 

[big_bad_buff]

Yes I was refering to you. Look, in a nutshell, what is your logical argument against evolution?

there is no argument bro, but what is your logical argument against Creation? will you please prove to me that evolution is true? there has never been any proof at all that it is, NONE!, when you get down to it, there is a religion called christianity, and a religion called evolution, christians believe god created everything, and evolutionists believe nothing created everything, RIGHT??? PM me if you want, but this post is old news...OUT

 

[Temple]

there is no argument bro, but what is your logical argument against Creation? will you please prove to me that evolution is true? there has never been any proof at all that it is, NONE!, when you get down to it, there is a religion called christianity, and a religion called evolution, christians believe god created everything, and evolutionists believe nothing created everything, RIGHT??? PM me if you want, but this post is old news...OUT

 

[Silent Method]

there is no argument bro, but what is your logical argument against Creation?

I have none. Creation is real. So is the scientific reality of the physical universe, which God created. Are not the bounds of science established by God?

Now I will agree that science as practiced by man will have a degree of error. So it is with anything touched by man. I will ask you, is not the bible God's truth as filtered through the hands of man? I know that the Bible is sacred and living. Is God's own creation, here for us to observe, any less sacred, any less living?

Creationism and evolutionism are not mutually exclusive.

If you have faith in the belief that every living organism was created simultaneously, that's fine. However, my faith in God, my very belief that he created an orderly world, leads me to accept his physical reality. I believe that that physical reality includes overwhelming evidence for evolution. In my heart, to deny this observable physical reality is to deny God.

The clues to the reality of evolution fit together like a magnificent puzzle created by God. Actively denying them is, to me, quite a sad denial of Gods omnipotence.

 

[Norman Bates]

If god created the universe than he is the oldest part of the universe. Furthermore, if he/she/it really existed and he revealed himself to humanity, he should not have a dramatic change ,like turning from 2 different gods into one.

A little copy from a bible history:

We now know this Mesopotamian god as "El-ohim," and our author "E," one of the earliest scriptorialists writing about this time, first has El introducing himself to Abraham as "El Shaddai" (El of the Mountain). He also appears as El Elyon, or El of Bethel in other, non-canonized scripture, and his name is also preserved in such Hebrew names as Isra-El and Ishma-El. The word Elohim was originally a plural of El.2

To the south, from Bethel to the Valley of Beersheba, a similar transformation is taking place. In this climatically and geologically harsher place, a place with a much smaller and less settled population with greater geographical isolation, the Canaanite god Yahweh is being transformed by a culturally similar people of the land of Judah. The unknown author known to scholars simply as "J" has his god being familiar with and comfortable with Abraham, and he casually appears to Abraham in Genesis 18, introducing himself as Yahweh. But "J's" contemporary, author "E" in the north can't have God being so casual, and first appears as a voice, commanding Abraham to leave his people in Mesopotamia and settle in Canaan.3

Yahweh, in his transformation from a pagan Canaanite god to the god of the Jews, becomes a cruel and vindictive god in the hands of author "J." He commands Abraham to sacrifice his first born son, an act which is not at all surprising given the nature of the pagan religions of the time. Many of these pagan religions (and remember that Yahweh got his start as a Canannite pagan god) considered the first-born to be the seed of a god. Because of this, they were often sacrificed to the god who presumably sired them.

Yet Elohim in the north continues to be a much more subtle god, who directs the affairs of men by revelation of the voice, hidden from the view of mere mortals. There is a tension among these peoples, both of whom identify themselves as culturally decendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. One people, perhaps, but two gods.


So even if the universe was created by some god, it surely wasn´t the christian, because this one was clearly man made.

 

[Silent Method]

So even if the universe was created by some god, it surely wasn´t the christian, because this one was clearly man made.

Your post is valid regarding our very limited, human understanding of God and cites some possible contradictions between the percieved history of "revelation." However, it hardly eliminates the possibility of truth in christianity.

BTW, I believe God is more than the oldest "part" of the universe. God is the universe.

 

[Norman Bates]

Your eternal god is a merged product of different tribes, that is not a possible contradiction, it is a big contradiction that shows that the christian god is an imaginery thing.

Also, it contradicts that an eternal god revealed himself as the christian one, because if it really was more than fantasy, he would not have come up as 2 gods, but as one.
And if one of those believes was correct, they would not have merged ,but the real one would have proven the other one to be false.

 

[Silent Method]

Your eternal god is a merged product of different tribes, that is not a possible contradiction, it is a big contradiction that shows that the christian god is an imaginery thing.

Who say's any human's definition of God is correct? No human perception is without contradiction. Does this mean their is no reality?

Can a human even comprehend the fullness of God? I do not believe so. However, we try to define God with human perception and logic. Our perception and logic cannot fully comprehend the single smallest unit of "substance." How then can we expect to comprehend and explain the universe in it's entirety, manifest in God?

Also, it contradicts that an eternal god revealed himself as the christian one, because if it really was more than fantasy, he would not have come up as 2 gods, but as one.
And if one of those believes was correct, they would not have merged ,but the real one would have proven the other one to be false.

Again, we're attempting to fit God into the box of human understanding. I will fully agree that much of traditional Christian theology is just that - an attempt to limit God to our logic. However, to suggest that God could not chose to present himself in any degree of entirety as a man because it does not fit our logic is absurd. Are you clinging to the simplistic idea that God on the ground means a seprate God in the sky? I believe God is present in everything at all times. God does not fit our logic, God supercedes our logic.