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Proof of A/S far reaching genetic potential...

HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex

Elite Mentor
Platinum
Alright,I constantly hear the question,"Do all your gains eventually diminish once you've discontinued anabolics for good?"Or"You won't be able to keep those gains long term,at least not anywhere past your natural genetic potential"...The following study lends credence to alterations in GENETICS from anabolic administration,and these,for the most part,are PERMANENT physiological adaptations that will set one BEYOND their natural potential.Evidence is pointing towards increases in myonucleic populations and satellite cell activation into the mainframe.Satellite cells are basically 'dormant' muscle cells,that usually lie outside of the main skeletal network,and for the most part will never be used or activated.The use of A/S triggers these cells into activation and incorporates them into the striated main-frame.Increases in myonuclei(skeletal muscle nuclei)equates to a permanently enhanced ability to process proteins to further anabolism...Enjoy my brotha's...


Effects of anabolic steroids on the muscle cells of strength-trained athletes.
Kadi F, Eriksson A, Holmner S, Thornell LE
Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Nov 31:1528-34

Med Sci Sports Exerc . Volume 31 . Issue 11
VIEW

Abstract
PURPOSE: Athletes who use anabolic steroids get larger and stronger muscles. How this is reflected at the level of the muscle fibers has not yet been established and was the topic of this investigation. METHODS: Muscle biopsies were obtained from the trapezius muscles of high-level power lifters who have reported the use of anabolic steroids in high doses for several years and from high-level power lifters who have never used these drugs. Enzyme-immunohistochemical investigation was performed to assess muscle fiber types, fiber area, myonuclear number, frequency of satellite cells, and fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms. RESULTS: The overall muscle fiber composition was the same in both groups. The mean area for each fiber type in the reported steroid users was larger than that in the nonsteroid users (P < 0.05). The number of myonuclei and the proportion of central nuclei were also significantly higher in the reported steroid users (P < 0.05). Likewise, the frequency of fibers expressing developmental protein isoforms was significantly higher in the reported steroid users group (P < 0.05). CONCLUSION: Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. We propose that activation of satellite cells is a key process and is enhanced by the steroid use. The incorporation of the satellite cells into preexisting fibers to maintain a constant nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio seems to be a fundamental mechanism for muscle fiber growth. Although all the subjects in this study have the same level of performance, the possibility of genetic differences between the two groups cannot be completely excluded.
 
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Very nice Huck.

It should be noted that certain steroids(and other growth agents) increase sattelite cells activation in the body.

Let's play steroid Jeopardy

This anabolic androgenic steroid increase the activation of sattelite cells in the body more than any other.

For 400 dollars, can you name which one? :D

Actually isn't GH(possibly IGF1) the best drug for this?
 
Great post huck, I was just thinking about this the other day! I dont want to be an AS user for life, just to reach my goal, then try to maintain it naturally!:D
 
To me, this represents the heart of the study:

<<CONCLUSION: Intake of anabolic steroids and strength-training induce an increase in muscle size by both hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibers. >>

I have read this paper before HUCK posted it, and have referenced it at least once on the boards without remembering the name.

Essentially this is saying that increased muscle growth is a result of two things:

HYPERTROPHY which had previously been established in humans
HYPERPLASIA: which had not previously been established in human, but hypothesized

The latter of these two will take someone beyond their natural attainable goal, with steroid usage and give them, a higher than normally attainable natural limit to remain at once AAS have been discontinued.

NFG
 
HugeWannabe said:
Great post huck, I was just thinking about this the other day! I dont want to be an AS user for life, just to reach my goal, then try to maintain it naturally!:D

Me too. I don't want to juice forever but, I also don't want to get huge then lose it all and be thin again. Excellent post as always Huck or should I just call you "Yoda"
 
Another great read brotha. Keep 'em coming. Definately should be a sticky.....or we can just bump the fuck out of it for the next few weeks.:)
 
Good for us! At first though, I thought oh shit, now my five yr old daughter has a greater propensity to have 19 inch arms. The genetic part got my attention.
 
Alright, I didn't read the paper - but I can think of a few points of criticism:

1. How long and how much did these guys take AS. Also how long have they been off? All of these variables could profoundly influence the development, activation, and/or maturation of satellite cells into myonuclei.

2. What endocrinological factors influence myonuclei development and maintainance? You may undergo hyperplasia but once you go off steroids, do you have the hormonal strength to activate the growth of that new fiber? These may be "inactive" in that natual levels of test, etc. may only be able to support a limited number of myonuclei.

3. Technical flaws. Biopsy sampling variation has plagued in vivo hyperplasia studies for decades. It's really not that easy (or accurate) to determine muscle fiber count without excising the entire muscle.
 
Technical flaws. Biopsy sampling variation has plagued in vivo hyperplasia studies for decades. It's really not that easy (or accurate) to determine muscle fiber count without excising the entire muscle.

Although anabolic steroids were not involved, the classic study demonstrating that exercise induces muscle hyperlasia looked at muscle cross sections rather than biopsy samples

Anat Rec 1992 Jun;233(2):178-95
Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Morphological observations supporting muscle fiber hyperplasia following weight-lifting exercise in cats.

Giddings CJ, Gonyea WJ.

Department of Cell Biology and Neuroscience, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas 75235-9039.

Although exercise-induced muscle fiber hyperplasia has been demonstrated through direct fiber counts following nitric-acid digestion of muscle, morphological studies to determine the mechanism of hyperplasia have not been performed previously. In this study, light and electron microscopy were used to evaluate evidence of muscle fiber splitting or de novo formation of new muscle fibers. Since both fiber hypertrophy and hyperplasia may result in alterations in the muscle nuclear populations, myonuclear number and satellite cell frequency were assessed quantitatively to determine their role in regulating muscle fiber size. Ten adult cats performed weight-lifting exercise, and the right (exercised) and left (control) forelimbs were fixed by vascular perfusion. Spaced serial sections were used to evaluate muscle fiber morphology along the length of fibers, and muscle fiber areas were measured. Myonuclei and satellite cells were
counted using electron microscopy. Morphological evidence supporting muscle fiber hyperplasia was observed in exercised muscles. These observations included the presence of small fibers which may signify de novo fiber formation. Myonuclear counts indicate that myonuclear density is not a primary regulator of fiber size. Satellite cell frequency was unchanged following exercise. Autoradiographic studies revealed satellite cell activation by uptake of tritiated thymidine in exercised muscles. Satellite cell activation appears to result from increased activity in exercised muscles. These findings confirm previous studies demonstrating muscle fiber hyperplasia following weight-lifting exercise, and suggest that de novo fiber formation is the major mechanism contributing to muscle fiber hyperplasia in this model.
 
Totally agree!

Hello, Im new here but old to the game. Four years ago I was 195 lbs and started juicing, heavily. I wont like, I was using a shitload. I did this for two years, two years later I weighed over 300 lbs. Remember, my natural weight was only around 185 lbs if I didn't train. Now after two years of no juice, im 240 at about seven percent bodyfat. The only way to justify this is a modification in my genetics. I know for a fact they changed my genetics.

Cage
 
Yea, but Nandi - you can only take large cross-sections of muscle in animal models, not living humans, unless they don't mind you removing their biceps, etc. Also, cats (the traditional model for hyperplasia) are a weak argument for hyperplasia in humans during normal muscle loading conditions. Most of the hyperplasia models are based on stretch compensation where they remove an agonist muscle like the gastroc to investigate hyperplasia in the soleus.

I'm not saying it doesn't occur in humans. In fact, I think it does but only over a long period of time under repeated musculoskeletal stress. We're talking years here.
 
I agree with you Dr.X, that it can often be a leap of faith to extrapolate from animals to humans. I think that's one reason the relative importance of hyperplasia v. hypertrophy is still so hotly debated in the sports physiology world. As far as I know there is not a human study that would be considered the "smoking gun".
 
I'm sure the folks at PETA would be much happier if we performed vascular perfusion and sectioning on you, Huck, instead of those poor cats...
 
I tend to agree with the articles, as i know of several body builders that no longer compete and or work out regularly and when they do work out they don't train hard anymore. But if you look at them they are still very big and muscular and some of them are still lean. It is as if they have achieved a new body, sure they are not as big as when they were competing but they are bigger than any natural lifter will ever get.
 
Stanozolol (Winstrol)?

BigAndy69 said:
This anabolic androgenic steroid increase the activation of sattelite cells in the body more than any other.

For 400 dollars, can you name which one? :D
 
the answer has got to be cell-tech
hahaha

no really, whats the answer?

id say test too,
but mybe its one of those trick questions or something.
 
This is a question I have been wondering about since I started pondering using gear. I didn't want to get trapped into using gear for 40 years to maintain my goals. That is great stuff! I have an addictive personality, and this gives me peace mind that I won't be a little school girl when I come off.
 
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