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Pro-War Americans = Sheep **Volume 1**

2Thick

2Thick

Elite Mentor
Platinum
EF Logger
I hate to say:

I TOLD YOU SO!!

An oil services firm formerly run by US Vice President Dick Cheney may have overcharged US forces in Iraq by some $61m, a Pentagon audit has found.
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Darn "stupid mistakes" that cost you and me 63 MILLION DOLLARS!

One defence official was quoted as saying there was no reason to believe the problems were anything other than "stupid mistakes" by the firm.

However, the BBC's Nick Childs at the Pentagon says it is being treated as an issue of serious concern.

The Pentagon also said the firm had been planning to charge $67m too much for another contract to supply cafeteria services.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3312015.stm
 
Somehow I don't think 2Thick really "hated to say it".

:)
 
$60M? Out of a $2Trillion annual budget?

This is equivalent to buying $50,000 worth of electronic equipment and not getting your 25 cent mail in rebate.
 
I have $20 in rebates on my desk right now that I'm too lazy to mail in. Damn stamps are expensive these days.

:)
 
2Thick said:



hahahahahahahaha

Weak, very weak
Click to expand...

Next time you spend $50K and get overcharged by a 25 cents, I'll refund it to you. :)

This is an irrelevancy, a typo, perhaps, by a bookeeper.
 
All Americans should be enraged at the waste that occurs in government, but since 2Thick presented this factoid one must inspect it further.

Since 2Thick despises the War on Terror, his post insinuates that this incident proves an agenda of enriching Bush comrades. It becomes less supportive when one realizes that this is common everyday practice in government down to the very local level. In 2000, the GAO could not account for some 14 billion dollars of federal money.

If you do not support the war, then use some better arguments than "government is wasting money". This is near axiomatic, making all government spending suspect.
 
2 thick, i believe you have mentioned your dual citizenship at one time or another. are you obligated to comply with the federal tax laws in the united states?
 
To clarify, is this only the Iraq war, or perhaps the war in Afghanistan? Or does the term "sheep" apply to those who support any war the US is involved in?

By the way, kudos to member atlantabiolab for his excellent response.
 
Re: Re: Re: Pro-War Americans = Sheep **Volume 1**

2Thick said:
Hahahahaha... wait you're being facetious, right?
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Yes. As a resident Canadian, I fail to see why you would care.
 
atlantabiolab said:

If you do not support the war, then use some better arguments than "government is wasting money". This is near axiomatic, making all government spending suspect.
Click to expand...

Right - this situation, while disapoointing, is not out of the norm.

Lack of outrage about this and related events are the result of a tax code which abuses the wealthy so that the middle class may comfortably exist.
 
sinjinsmythe33 said:
2 thick, i believe you have mentioned your dual citizenship at one time or another. are you obligated to comply with the federal tax laws in the united states?
Click to expand...

Only if I work for an AMerican company. But, I own properties in the US and have investments there so I pay taxes...quite a lot of them.
 
What find funny about this, (and most other "major" news coming out of the US) is that in 3 weeks, no one will care about it anymore. On to the next big scandilus story. Give me a break.
 
Well I waited to pass judgment. I mean I'm against preemptively judging the government's actions with awarding these contracts. Nobody had any solid proof that they would take advantage of the contract and overcharge the American people.

:D
 
the news piece i saw said it was they were charging excessive per gallon prices compared to the local iraqi prices... halliburton does not deny overcharging, they say that it's relevance lies in the danger associated with transporting it within iraq.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
$60M? Out of a $2Trillion annual budget?

This is equivalent to buying $50,000 worth of electronic equipment and not getting your 25 cent mail in rebate.
Click to expand...

Tsk tsk, you can do better than that, you actully sounded a bit like Rush saying that his 'little' problem was no big deal, so don't send little old me to jail, please sir?

Lets seeeeeee now, how much were the clintons investigated for 'stealing' over in little ole Whitewater?

Oh, and there aint nothin' 'Anti American' about price gauging our armed forces in a time of war, no worries, Matt.
 
From your other post in which I replied with this...


For the record, Russia had a leader that has many similarities to Saddam Hussein by the name of Joseph Stalin.

The total number of people he was responsible for murdering?
Over 50 million!

Officially classified as "unnatural deaths attributed to Stalin." This is according to the Russians themselves.

An ounce of prevention...



No, I am not pro-war.

In the history of the world, everyone (country) has had two choices. Kill or be killed. Thats it.

Now America has added another choice, conquering financially.

I guess we could always go back to the old ways. But America walks the higher road.

When it comes to business decisions, mistakes are made everyday at almost every company. Some intentional and some not. Thats why you have checks and balances, such as the Pentagon audit that caught this mistake. You haven't told anyone anything that hasn't been going on since the beginning of business.

Cheers!
 
ChefWide said:


Tsk tsk, you can do better than that, you actully sounded a bit like Rush saying that his 'little' problem was no big deal, so don't send little old me to jail, please sir?

Lets seeeeeee now, how much were the clintons investigated for 'stealing' over in little ole Whitewater?

Oh, and there aint nothin' 'Anti American' about price gauging our armed forces in a time of war, no worries, Matt.
Click to expand...

There is little vlaue to discussing the point when you want to bring in unrelated events.

Rush who? That's old news bro. He should be chraged, but what does this have to do with anything? nada.

The investigation of the Clintons? Unrelated nonsense. Why bring it up?
 
You said:
$60M? Out of a $2Trillion annual budget?

This is equivalent to buying $50,000 worth of electronic equipment and not getting your 25 cent mail in rebate.
Click to expand...

Seems to me that is far more money than what was involved in Whitewater. Yet neo-coniacs thought Whitewater was the crime of the century. Yet when its Halliburton doing the gauging, its a pittance?

Thats how it fits.
 
ChefWide said:
You said:


Seems to me that is far more money than what was involved in Whitewater. Yet neo-coniacs thought Whitewater was the crime of the century. Yet when its Halliburton doing the gauging, its a pittance?

Thats how it fits.
Click to expand...

Whitewater was also nonsense.

So was the $50M on the Starr investigation.

But like said above, government wastefulness is axiomatic, and does not by itself support or constitute a reasonable objection to the war.

Hence the irrelevance.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Whitewater was also nonsense.

So was the $50M on the Starr investigation.

But like said above, government wastefulness is axiomatic, and does not by itself support or constitute a reasonable objection to the war.

Hence the irrelevance.
Click to expand...


The overall costs incurred are in fact quite relevant, as the $156+ billion already flushed down the toilet on a war we shouldn't even be involved in is growing daily by actions such as these. Is the $60million stolen under the cover of our boys dieing a watershed moment? Of course not, you know that's not my point. The point is that this is just the proverbial tip of the financial imbroglio that this illegal action has gotten us into.

Your attempt to cast off the larger picture of complete financial irresponsibility associated with our mere involvement in this crime is uncharacteristically jejune of you.
 
ChefWide said:



The overall costs incurred are in fact quite relevant, as the $156+ billion already flushed down the toilet on a war we shouldn't even be involved in is growing daily by actions such as these. Is the $60million stolen under the cover of our boys dieing a watershed moment? Of course not, you know that's not my point. The point is that this is just the proverbial tip of the financial imbroglio that this illegal action has gotten us into.

Your attempt to cast off the larger picture of complete financial irresponsibility associated with our mere involvement in this crime is uncharacteristically jejune of you.
Click to expand...

It's another spin on government wastefulness. There is no greater story.

I wish I had something more interesting to say.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


It's another spin on government wastefulness. There is no greater story.

I wish I had something more interesting to say.
Click to expand...

This particular boring, tedious, mundan case of government wastefulness has the added bonus of being centered around our bravest boys getting killed.

It makes me a bit angry, as opposed to your state of being nonplused.
 
ChefWide said:


This particular boring, tedious, mundan case of government wastefulness has the added bonus of being centered around our bravest boys getting killed.

It makes me a bit angry, as opposed to your state of being nonplused.
Click to expand...

Look, I've been in the Army, I know those poeple. I personally know one person that was killed, I recognize many of the Army officers that are interviewed, and I know a handful of the senior officers you see on TV - they were high level commanders that I worked for. You certainly don't have to tell me about the added "bonus".

It comes down to a question of: what price should we pay to bring a dictatorial region into the world of representative government? You believe that this is not worth it. I believe that it is.
 
Normally I agree with you, Matt. However, your logic process on this thread is severly flawed.

It's almost as bad as your spelling.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Look, I've been in the Army, I know those poeple. I personally know one person that was killed, I recognize many of the Army officers that are interviewed, and I know a handful of the senior officers you see on TV - they were high level commanders that I worked for. You certainly don't have to tell me about the added "bonus".

It comes down to a question of: what price should we pay to bring a dictatorial region into the world of representative government? You believe that this is not worth it. I believe that it is.
Click to expand...

Thats schoolboy talk, you are so much smarter than that!

The Iraqis will NEVER receive a representative government unless they overthrow the puppet regime(s) we install! Do you think for an instant that the U.S. will sit back and let a Muslim government take over that country? Not in a million years!

All that is happening there is a regime swap, one very bad one for one that we like that will listen to orders.

Representative government, bah! WE dont even have a leader elected by the majority of our citizens, and you think we are going to present that gift to the Iraqis? Please.
 
DcupSheepNipples said:
Ba Ba Ba Ba Ba!

GNWO has owned the sheeple!
Click to expand...

Bordelester Banger, you sure you got the right thread?
 
Well, they are being investigated, which they welcome. If they got greedy then they will suffer the consequences, or individuals will.

Good to see America is trying to be self-policing and responsible with taxpayer money here.
 
ChefWide said:



All that is happening there is a regime swap, one very bad one for one that we like that will listen to orders.

Click to expand...

I'm OK with that, for a lot of reasons.

The middle east monarchies have to be broken.

Anything - anything - is better.
 
Read the posts. I am not going to rehash a good argument with matt because you are too lazy to go over the thread.
 
ChefWide said:
Read the posts. I am not going to rehash a good argument with matt because you are too lazy to go over the thread.
Click to expand...

LOL

Agree with regime swap. And I am OK with it.

The idea that we can do a perfect nation-creation is wacky and unrealistic - it is political fodder for the opposition party - any opposition party.
 
ChefWide said:
Read the posts. I am not going to rehash a good argument with matt because you are too lazy to go over the thread.
Click to expand...

VERDICT

for making a weak attempt at humor saying I favor the regime change: guilty

being lazy: not guilty
 
You mean to tell me a large american corp tried to over-charge for something? I find that hard to believe. Next thing you know we will find they have been falsifying there books in order to inflate their stock value. I can think of atleast three major military contractors this year that were charged with the same thing, except for larger amounts of money. I guess you could look on the bright side, atleast the pentagon is admitting it happened.
 
ChefWide said:


This particular boring, tedious, mundan case of government wastefulness has the added bonus of being centered around our bravest boys getting killed.

It makes me a bit angry, as opposed to your state of being nonplused.
Click to expand...

It only makes you a "bit angry" for the reasons of the Party involved and the costs of war, not for any consistency of logic that you have ever displayed on government waste. From other threads you are perfectly satisfied with tremendous government waste as long as it goes to social engineering projects.

So, the argument stands, those who oppose THIS case of waste, yet support other instances of waste are only using this specious argument to pitifully support their disapproval of the war. Stick to relevant points against the war, not "government wastes money"...DUH!
 
atlantabiolab said:


It only makes you a "bit angry" for the reasons of the Party involved and the costs of war, not for any consistency of logic that you have ever displayed on government waste. From other threads you are perfectly satisfied with tremendous government waste as long as it goes to social engineering projects.

So, the argument stands, those who oppose THIS case of waste, yet support other instances of waste are only using this specious argument to pitifully support their disapproval of the war. Stick to relevant points against the war, not "government wastes money"...DUH!
Click to expand...

You are just making my point for me. Thanks, Attila.

Precisely: money should be spent on SAVING LIVES and BETTERING THE FUTURE FOR OUR CHILDREN, not on forwarding some asshole's political agenda while getting our boys killed.

Sorry about the fact that threads evolve and mature into broader topics, I am aware that 'evolving' and 'maturing' are totally foreign ideas for you.
 
atlantabiolab said:


Try and post the thoughts of only one of the voices in your head.
Click to expand...

If your voice didnt sound so much like it was coming out from behind a white sheet, maybe. But you have more contradictions than O'reily has spin, so your opinion is so diluted no one really cares WHAT you say anymore.

And I like it.
 
ChefWide said:


If your voice didnt sound so much like it was coming out from behind a white sheet, maybe. But you have more contradictions than O'reily has spin, so your opinion is so diluted no one really cares WHAT you say anymore.

And I like it.
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The rantings of a common everyday leftist...essentially nothing.

"White sheet"? Please can't you impress your socialist buddies any more than that? Maybe throw in a "Seig Heil!" or something?

I showed yours, now, please try and show my contradictions, if you can.
 
ChefWide said:


If your voice didnt sound so much like it was coming out from behind a white sheet, maybe. But you have more contradictions than O'reily has spin, so your opinion is so diluted no one really cares WHAT you say anymore.

And I like it.
Click to expand...

Actually he has shown consistency on this thread. Summarizing:

Waste of tax dollars is the norm, and your (oppositon's) only gripe is the manner in which it was wasted.

Your only valid objection beyond that was the deaths of US soldiers, somethign we all agree is tragic.

he's basically asked you to criticize the war on grounds other than "wasted cash", because that is already going on all over.
 
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