Pre-cycle blood test

[yuppyguitar]

Hey guys. Getting a pre-cycle blood test for my upcoming anavar cycle. Noting testosterone levels, liver enzymes, and lipid levels. Anything else I'm leaving out?

Separate question: I've seen people say that it takes 6-8 weeks for red blood cells to return to normal levels after a standard blood test. Given that red blood cells carry oxygen to the muscle cells, would it have a significant impact on the performance of the cycle if I position the blood test 1 week before the cycle? Has anyone else positioned their blood test close to the cycle start? How did the cycle compare to the ones where you did not?

 

[stevesmi]

no i don't see that being a factor at all.

i wouldn't waste money testing very much things before cycle. but after PCT I would get a full panel

 

[yuppyguitar]

Hi steve. To be honest I've never done a hormonal blood test so I don't know my natural level, and this is my first cycle. I want to establish a baseline to compare to after PCT.

 

[stevesmi]

yes that is smart... do your total test and free test.

if it comes in high you might want to just stay natty for a while and take advantage of those high levels. how old are you?

 

[yuppyguitar]

28, lifting for 13 years. I don't really buy the age argument, but thats just me. For example: Average 21 y/o has around 700ng/dl total test, vs. an average 35 y/o that has 600ng/dl total test. On a test cycle, the user can expect to achieve at least 2500ng/dl total test. So we're talking about 14 years age difference, 100ng/dl endogenous test difference, but a 1800-1900ng/dl difference while on cycle.

I'm not allowed to post links, but if you search for "Sex Hormones, Aging, Ethnicity and Insulin Sensivity in Men: An Overview of the TELECOM Study" you'll find the source.

 

[stevesmi]

yeah i realize that but you can make a lot of gains with 700 test levels...

 

[yuppyguitar]

Heh, true, except when you've been lifting for over a decade, tried every diet, supplement, and training protocol, and still stagnate.

I just think the argument should be shifted towards gaining experience and understanding how your body responds to various stimuli before cycling, rather than making the blanket statement that people under x age simply should not cycle. Plenty of 21 y/o's with adequate lifting experience. At that age I would've had 7 years under my belt.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ has more to do with their future.

do you want to screw up your HPTA at 20? or do you want to wait till you are 30 and lift naturally, gain experience.. and then take it to the next level. everyone can make their own decision but i think waiting is smarter.. i will straight up and say going on HRT at 20 is complete buffoonery unless you really have some kind of disorder where you need test.. but if your levels are 700 and you jump on HRT than you are only hurting yourself long term

 

[yuppyguitar]

That sounds like a fair comment. I've heard of pro bodybuilders who cycle year round having issues getting the test back naturally after retiring, but is there any evidence that hormone production can get stunted by a cycle followed by PCT and proper time off?

 

[stevesmi]

^^^read the threads on here.. plenty of guys have not been able to recover after cycles. either they went too long or they used too high a dosages.

good question if there is evidence that when you run a cycle your HPTA takes a hit each time. but from the senior members on here the answer is yes based on their own experiences. Nelson has talked about that many times, maybe do a search on his posts.

I do not believe my HPTA today after running 4 cycles is as fully functional as it was before i started juicing at 29 years old. my test levels seem to take a slight hit after each cycle after i take bloods. since I am in my 30's that is fine, as I can continue to cycle than go on HRT at 45 or 50. but for guys who are young its a shame for them to wreck their HTPA at such a young age and have to go on HRT at 30 or 35. a complete waste IMO

 

[yuppyguitar]

Interesting info. Looks like we'll have to rely on anecdotal evidence. I'll be the guinea pig in my own experiment.

 

[yuppyguitar]

^^^ has more to do with their future.

do you want to screw up your HPTA at 20? or do you want to wait till you are 30 and lift naturally, gain experience.. and then take it to the next level. everyone can make their own decision but i think waiting is smarter.. i will straight up and say going on HRT at 20 is complete buffoonery unless you really have some kind of disorder where you need test.. but if your levels are 700 and you jump on HRT than you are only hurting yourself long term

Hey Steve, starting the cycle July 18th. 50mg/8weeks
Found your anavar thread, you said:

The third reason which speaks well for an intake of Oxandrolone is that even in a very high dosage this compound does not influence the body's own testosterone production. To make this clear: Oxandrolone does not suppress the body's own hormone production. The reason is that it does not have a negative feedback mechanism on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, meaning that during the intake of Oxandrolone, unlike during the intake of most anabolic steroids, the testes signal the hypo-thalamus not to reduce or to stop the release of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) and LHRH Luteinizing hormone releasing hormone). This special feature of Oxandrolone can be explained by the fact that the substance is not converted into estrogen Oxandrolone (anavar), when given to normal men in high doses does not reduce the seminal volume or count, nor can it be converted (aromatized) into estrogen.

I take it your earlier comment about HPTA was directed at steroid use in general, and not anavar specifically?
Also, I've come across numerous anavar only threads stating that they were shut down by the end of the cycle. Do you have a source for this article or did you write it? The consensus I've found among anavar-only cyclers is that PCT for hormones is definitely needed. Can you explain the contradiction?

One last thing, is there any substance to the claim the silymarin has a negative impact on a cycle? I found a study saying that silymarin reduces the effectiveness of androgen receptors, but given anavar only targets anabolic receptors is this is an issue? I don't have any plans to use anything but silymarin for liver protection during my anavar-only cycle.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^^seems like you have been doing your research with is great....

i would say it is your decision, anavar HPTA suppression is low. it is a DHT deriv so no aromatization. and your sides are low all around.

i have not run var myself so i would definately see what others think.

your PCT doesn't need to be aggressive but it cant hurt to run some light PCT

 

[yuppyguitar]

Main concerns and solutions I've found for anavar cycles:
1) poor lipid levels -> fish oil, flax seed
2) liver enzyme increase -> silymarin or liv 52, decided to go the silymarin route
3) HPTA shutdown -> HCgenerate + nolva

Does that about cover it?