post cycle estrogen rebound PLEASE HELP

[pudzian2]

I came off an 8 week cycle of 600mgs Testosterone propionate and 600mgs Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. I used .5mg Adex ED to minimize bloat. I have always been a bit estrogen sensitive and have noticeably disproportionate fat depostion on my lower chest, lower back/love handle and lower abdomen. Also the inner thigh and lower glute. THESE ARE ALL FEMALE PATTERN FAT DEPOSIT AREAS.

i stoped the adex post cycle and ran a torem/ralox taper with 6-bromo (AI-ish) and retain-2 for cortisol. after a week or so my joints were dry as hell, my diet got cleaner and yet the fat deposits in the previously mentioned areas became WORSE and are continuing to get worse or so i feel.

a few other things to consider: I am (as of two days ago) self administering HRT dose testosterone which I will be on between cycles. ( I will eventually see a doctor for it and get the necessary scripts etc to do it right). I will be going back ON in 2 weeks for 4 months straight.


what i think happened:

arimidex is a non-suicidal AI so there was probably estrogen buildup and upon cessation there was more aromatase activity than there would be anyway in PCT.

cortisol? I stopped retain 2 and switched to about 1000mg phosphatidylserine per day with about 2-3g vitamin C per day.

Since I am now on HRT (propionate hasnt really kicked back in yet) I think I will discontinue SERM use or at least use very low dose while starting adex again at 1mg per day until h20 retention, and fat deposition balances out.

TRUST ME when i say diet is not the problem here guys....

im fairly lean at 5'9" 235lbs. I clipped at 11% on cycle.... and now i feel like 13%. NOT GOOD. Calories have decreased slightly to compensate for decreased ability to synthesize protein etc and yet still these SITE specific fatty deposits..


realistically i should get a regime here, stick to it for a week and then get bloodwork done to see wtf is going on.

I will continue Phosphatidylserine at 1g per day, 3g vitamin C per day, and 1mg Adex per day with my HRT dose of Test until this seems to improve, then I will get bloodwork and take it from there before going back "ON"


any suggestions?

 

[Mavafanculo]

.....I will continue Phosphatidylserine at 1g per day, 3g vitamin C per day, and 1mg Adex per day with my HRT dose of Test until this seems to improve, then I will get bloodwork and take it from there before going back "ON".....

some of what now looks to be fat, may just be water retention. I notice when i do clomid (another serm) that I look sort of "mushy" and that look goes away within a day of stopping.

just a guess, but perhaps some SERMs act as an agonist in abdominal/love handle fat stores.


in any event, what I quoted above looks good, with 2 possible exceptions

- dont know what effect if any the PS has on immediate appearence and water retention -- long term the fat loss effect should be positive

- I assume an HRT dose for you is about 250mg? the adex is about 2-3x normal dose for when on a cycle-- are you THAT sensitive to estrogen sides? that much adex for HRT is WAY high


get your self a topical yohimbe based fat loss formula. look into "targetx" i believe the name is - donnie darko one of our sponsors can help you with that.

the yohimbe formulas target the estrogenic fat deposits you describe.

 

[pudzian2]

some of what now looks to be fat, may just be water retention. I notice when i do clomid (another serm) that I look sort of "mushy" and that look goes away within a day of stopping.

just a guess, but perhaps some SERMs act as an agonist in abdominal/love handle fat stores.


in any event, what I quoted above looks good, with 2 possible exceptions

- dont know what effect if any the PS has on immediate appearence and water retention -- long term the fat loss effect should be positive

- I assume an HRT dose for you is about 250mg? the adex is about 2-3x normal dose for when on a cycle-- are you THAT sensitive to estrogen sides? that much adex for HRT is WAY high


get your self a topical yohimbe based fat loss formula. look into "targetx" i believe the name is - donnie darko one of our sponsors can help you with that.

the yohimbe formulas target the estrogenic fat deposits you describe.

yea I ordered taraxatone which is an herbal diuretic to help flush out some water. i agree that since starting the serms I have felt mushy in female pattern areas--- so maybe they are acting as a partial agonist.

What i meant by 1mg Adex was to frontload it today at 1mg and then run .5mg tomorrow and .125 to .25mg until things stabilize and yes my HRT dose of test is 250mg however I am using 350mg just to get things moving since I will be back on a 16 weeker in 2 weeks unless this problem im facing isnt resolved


i was looking into a topical yohimbe fat loss product. I will look at targetx-- i think it may be targ-x or something like that. Hopefully that should help...

as far as cortisol-- i really dont think thats the problem. And i think part of the reason my joints were so crummy was because i was using retain 2. suppressing cortisol too much is bad news... I was speaking with a doctor educated in this area and he said that one should wait 2-3 weeks into PCT before doing anything to change cortisol levels... so maybe thats why my joints were crummy. (plus the 6-bromo=bad news for my joints)

No I am not THAT estrogen sensitive HOWEVER i think that i am to some degree (or at least have been ) too conservative with estrogen control. (not using enough AI on cycle)....

With the clarification of my adex dose do you agree this is a good course of action?


and thank you for your input man

 

[Burpees]

Mavafanculo, you think topical Yohimbe is better than ingesting Yohimbe HCL? I plan to run DNP/Yohimbe HCL my last 4 weeks of this cycle (test/tren). I may just also run the topical yohimbe..

pudzian2, let me know how the taraxatone works.. I ordered a couple of bottles but they have taken forever to arrive. I have the same problem bro, I'm only fatty on my love handles, lower back, and inner/back things..

 

[Mavafanculo]

yea I ordered taraxatone which is an herbal diuretic to help flush out some water. i agree that since starting the serms I have felt mushy in female pattern areas--- so maybe they are acting as a partial agonist.

What i meant by 1mg Adex was to frontload it today at 1mg and then run .5mg tomorrow and .125 to .25mg until things stabilize and yes my HRT dose of test is 250mg however I am using 350mg just to get things moving since I will be back on a 16 weeker in 2 weeks unless this problem im facing isnt resolved


i was looking into a topical yohimbe fat loss product. I will look at targetx-- i think it may be targ-x or something like that. Hopefully that should help...

as far as cortisol-- i really dont think thats the problem. And i think part of the reason my joints were so crummy was because i was using retain 2. suppressing cortisol too much is bad news... I was speaking with a doctor educated in this area and he said that one should wait 2-3 weeks into PCT before doing anything to change cortisol levels... so maybe thats why my joints were crummy. (plus the 6-bromo=bad news for my joints)

No I am not THAT estrogen sensitive HOWEVER i think that i am to some degree (or at least have been ) too conservative with estrogen control. (not using enough AI on cycle)....

With the clarification of my adex dose do you agree this is a good course of action?


and thank you for your input man

^ yup looks good - after the initial problem is over, at your dose you prolly wont be needing any or minimal until you start a regular cycle again -- read your body at that time to see if you will up the ai

 

[pudzian2]

^ yup looks good - after the initial problem is over, at your dose you prolly wont be needing any or minimal until you start a regular cycle again -- read your body at that time to see if you will up the ai

thanks for the help man. Much appreciated.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Mavafanculo, you think topical Yohimbe is better than ingesting Yohimbe HCL? I plan to run DNP/Yohimbe HCL my last 4 weeks of this cycle (test/tren). I may just also run the topical yohimbe..

..

not sure -- I know ingested yohimbe has additional systemic synergistic benefits when combined with thermogenics like ephedrine -- If i recall it blocks off your bodies heat regulation system so it makes the ephedrine that much more effective lol

the targeted topical, which will also give some systemic absortion, might be better in his case because of his problem. - no reson you cant do both if you dont have any health issues and start at low doses and work up

 

[pudzian2]

not sure -- I know ingested yohimbe has additional systemic synergistic benefits when combined with thermogenics like ephedrine -- If i recall it blocks off your bodies heat regulation system so it makes the ephedrine that much more effective lol

the targeted topical, which will also give some systemic absortion, might be better in his case because of his problem. - no reson you cant do both if you dont have any health issues and start at low doses and work up

yea I will consider the topical yohimbe... I just want to get my hormones stabilized before trying a million things at once.. That way i can judge cause and effect later when on and off cycle as far as doses/compounds/combinations go.

for now I will continue the test HRT and adex (until it smooths out then probably wont need any until on cycle), 100-200mg p-5-p, 1000-1500mg vitex and I will be running modest 2 on 2 off with clen to help kick some of this stubborn fat in the butt. Then I will be on:

1-16: 500mgs Test Enth
1-16: 500mg EQ
1-12 350mg Tren Ace

( I will continue the p-5-p and the vitex for prolactin control and use adex while ON for estro control).

when i took that 1mg adex, my abdominal area tightened up noticeably but the nipple area is still mushy. -maybe the prolactin control will help here ( i do have tiny little lumps that arent painful anymore from tren use in the past).

so between the taraxatone, estrogen control, prolactin control, cortisol control, and clen I think i can end up better than i started before even going back on cycle..


thanks for the help guys

 

[needtogetaas]

some of what now looks to be fat, may just be water retention. I notice when i do clomid (another serm) that I look sort of "mushy" and that look goes away within a day of stopping.

just a guess, but perhaps some SERMs act as an agonist in abdominal/love handle fat stores.


in any event, what I quoted above looks good, with 2 possible exceptions

- dont know what effect if any the PS has on immediate appearence and water retention -- long term the fat loss effect should be positive

- I assume an HRT dose for you is about 250mg? the adex is about 2-3x normal dose for when on a cycle-- are you THAT sensitive to estrogen sides? that much adex for HRT is WAY high


get your self a topical yohimbe based fat loss formula. look into "targetx" i believe the name is - donnie darko one of our sponsors can help you with that.

the yohimbe formulas target the estrogenic fat deposits you describe.

I also think a cortisol blocker can help.

 

[pudzian2]

I also think a cortisol blocker can help.

im using phoshpatidylserine at 1g per day.... retain 2 and things like it really screw up my joints....

 

[Varga]

You def right about adex.....and prob that's exactely what happened. WIth little test in your system and estrogen rebound from relox it can get bad in a hurry.
I would have kept a dose of 200mg test /week which does not require any estrogen help (usually) and keep on doing some cardio and clean diet. Maybe use an AI sparingly if need it.
.

 

[pudzian2]

You def right about adex.....and prob that's exactely what happened. WIth little test in your system and estrogen rebound from relox it can get bad in a hurry.
I would have kept a dose of 200mg test /week which does not require any estrogen help (usually) and keep on doing some cardio and clean diet. Maybe use an AI sparingly if need it.
.

yea im going to sit stagnant at 350mgs test prop to get things moving faster to make up for some of the damage. I will use .125 mgs adex and adjust as necessary until i get back on my full cycle of shyat in about a week.

right now i just feel like a soft, deflated, estrogenic pile of adipose

 

[Varga]

yea im going to sit stagnant at 350mgs test prop to get things moving faster to make up for some of the damage. I will use .125 mgs adex and adjust as necessary until i get back on my full cycle of shyat in about a week.

right now i just feel like a soft, deflated, estrogenic pile of adipose

LOL,
Don't worry bro as soon as your test goes up the fat goes down. Honestly, if you have some hcg laying around I would do that for the next 2 weeks.