Police beating in Irvine CA

[chesty]

I can't believe that the news media and these idiots are playing the race card again. The dumbass had a suspended license and expired plates. His son lunged at the cops and from the video I see nothing excessive about it. The worst part is; without the entire incident on tape all you have is suposition as to what occured earlier. A very bad thing.

Cnn reports that one officer "appears" to be black and the others white. How does one appear to be black, yet all others are definitely white?

This was not racially motivated. It is a case of suspects acting foolish and a tourist looking for a quick buck and fame.

These are the same people that would scream for the cops if they were being robbed or attacked. Remember the old saying don't bite the hand that feeds you. In this case, protects you.

And after 4 years on the streets as a Sheriff's Deputy, I can tell you this, I never once was accused of racism and I put many a black in jail. But, when one of our black Deputies would arrest a black suspect he always got accused of being racist. "You did this cause I'm black" is what we almost always heard.

I hope this gets dismissed quickly.

1. He was dragged by an 18 inch chain around his neck until it broke? Was it his little gold chain or a big chain? If a big one he would be dead, if a small one there should be marks on his neck. They mention nothing of that injury, but sure recall all the others.

2. This officers lt. should be fired. She is not supporting her officer. Her statement that this video is disturbing is just ludicrous. At best, she should have said nothing, and at worst still have said nothing.

3. This poor guy is about to be fillet just for sensationalism and to make a couple of worthless low lifes really rich. Just like Rodney King (another fine example of society)

Why don't we just disarm the police in CA, give them twizzle sticks and let them walk around and just video tape crimes and let the lawyers sort it out.

 

[supertech69]

People tend to forget that this kid is a fucking criminal. They're playing the race card & the fact that he's mildly retarded. My girlfriend works with kids of his exact nature, ths simply means that they are ignorant & lacking education. Kids of this nature can be very very strong, like someone jacked up on drugs. I'd say he probably got what he deserved! We see this shit in Cinci all the time, it's been going on for years now. The bottom line is, when a cop tells you to stop, fucking stop. If he tells you to put your hands above your head or some other place, do exactly that! Don;t go reaching for your wallet or smokes or anything else. These guys don't make enough money to chance their lives on them possibly reaching for a weapon. They don't have the liberty of waiting to see what he pulls out, it could be too late by then. Quit whinning about the way cops treat criminals & stop being a criminal & we wont have these problems!

 

[Filet]

American cops should adopt Latin American Police tactics.....
Cops here just dont f@#$ around......
You f@#$ around and you get a bullet or a extreme beating

 

[Torch]

I agree with most of what is said above but if 5 cops cant secure a kid with cuffs on without punching him in the face, we have some problems here.

Granted we only got to see the last part of what happened but come on people, no need to sucker punch the kid. Hold him down with force, take him to the ground, mash his face into the trunk of the car but to cock back and hit em was uncalled for. Makes them look like they were not in control of the situation by acting like that. He only weighs like a buck O five.

You just dont do that shit in L.A. after all the racial bullshit that is going on.

JMO

 

[casavant]

I saw that clip. I've never been a cop, but as someone who's bounced quite a bit I know how it goes trying to subdue someone. I also know that you can get fired up and get a little rough. That happens when you're used to dealing with assholes who are trying to hurt you on a regular basis. Cops are't automatoms, and we shouldn't expect them to be. I'm not saying we need to give them free reign, but if you make them worry too much about what's going to happen to them if they have to get a little physical, they're going to get hurt.

 

[Longhorn85]

I am as pro-cop as they come, and I don't know the whole story. From what I have seen, slamming a kid's head against the hood of a car appeared to be excessive, at least enough to warrant an investigation by the dept itself, not outside agencies.

I don't however, see how race was a factor at all.

 

[Y_lifter]

Apparently the kid was resisting/fighting "UnCuffed", and there is a chance of an officer being injured.
He did apparently attempt to assault an officer and was secured by multiple officers and in the process one was injured.
This is the time for officers to use necessary force to control the situation.
Be that force a Pile on of officers, a wrist lock, a PR24 to the Solar Plexus, Lower body joints or whatever he can hit below the neck, a knee in the back or even deadly force.

Are you telling me it is right for Police to use excessive force AFTER the suspect is handcuffed and surrounded by 5 officers?

Training teaches to use excessive Verbal or Physical actions to set the tone of the engagement only when we are in a dangerous, sole officer responding or out of control situation.

I would say from the post custody video I saw and the reports from unbiased witnesses, this situation was not any of the above.

This individual be he Black, White, Yellow or Brown / 15 or 50 years old:
Failed to RESPECT a law enforcement officers authority
Was controlled after a brief struggle with several trained officers
Was handcuffed and being led to be frisked before being placed in the car.
Was then excessively bent over the trunk of the vehicle
Was punched in the side of the face by an officer while bent over.

Police are held at a higher standard and expected to keep their temper and re-percussive actions in check because they are trained to do so.
They are still human and make mistakes, and as many of us realize, mistakes often bring about penalties.

This young dude was being taken away to hopefully be punished for his actions that night.
IMO a couple of the officer also made a mistake.
Should they not also be punished ?

I was happy to see one of the other officers blocking further abuse and leading the dude away from the scene

As for lawsuits and such, it sucks, but that is what our society says is proper.

 

[the nature boy]

this kind of shit happens all the time. it's not surprising. cops have very stressful and very boring jobs, but occasionally they have instances where the adrenaline kicks in.

anyway, if the guy was in handcuffs there was no reason to do what they did.

He was in handcuffs right?

 

[p0ink]

have you guys ever seen russian police videos? holy god. they just walk up to the guy they are going to 'apprehend' and just knock them square in the face, and then continue to beat the living shit out of them. i wish we could do that here...

 

[smokinghawk]

I am as pro-cop as they come, and I don't know the whole story. From what I have seen, slamming a kid's head against the hood of a car appeared to be excessive, at least enough to warrant an investigation by the dept itself, not outside agencies.

I don't however, see how race was a factor at all.

Agreed.

Yes, the kid was a criminal. And you know what? SO what? so are a lot of us on this forum. Nobody loses their human rights in America just because they are deemed criminals--especially not before the Constitutional right of a trial. We're not Iraq. We're not Pakistan. We don't just let police have unlimited authority to beat down an elleged perp during arrest AFTER he's clearly been subdued.

Either the Constition, American rights, and human rights matter to us--to ALL of us, of every race and both sides of the law--or we need to give up this charade of ours and become the world's best-funded Third World nation.


Yeah, I know, I'll have yet another "Shit for brains faggot" bad karma again (my karma never budges because of my politics), but protecting American legal rights MATTERS to me.

 

[Citruscide]

Sometimes I wonder if people don't set up those cameras and just send some black guy down to slap a police officer and spit at them... and then the cops slap the guy around a little and BOOM... camera. Plus, I heard this guy actually beat up some officer and that is what they were arresting him for...

Common sense tells me... if you are white or black, and you slap a cop or beat one up for that matter... you are guaranteed a 100% bonafide asskicking... courtesy of the state.

C

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

To subdue someone, cops sometimes need to use force. The tape shown on TV didn't show any of that, but force to subdue someone is justified.

Once the guy was handcuffed, and surrounded by what appeared to be 5 cops, he was subdued, and that's it. If you need to smack him around, do it back at the station where there are no cameras.

This is a stupid dumbass cop that will cost the taxpayers $10million in a settlement.

 

[RyanH]

have you guys ever seen russian police videos? holy god. they just walk up to the guy they are going to 'apprehend' and just knock them square in the face, and then continue to beat the living shit out of them. i wish we could do that here...

I know, you'll do anything that tramples on our constitutional due process rights. Glad you think Russia does things so well? Maybe a little bit of communism thrown in might work as well, eh?

Excessive force was used here, and that is simply impermissible. This "cop" deserves all of the public criticism he's getting and more. Remember, the Diallo incident, that was just police officers doing their jobs as well, right?

Yes, the suspect was in handcuffs. Thus, the officer exceed the force necessary to detain the suspect and should be charged with battery---- and fired.

 

[RyanH]

Sometimes I wonder if people don't set up those cameras and just send some black guy down to slap a police officer and spit at them... and then the cops slap the guy around a little and BOOM... camera. Plus, I heard this guy actually beat up some officer and that is what they were arresting him for...

Common sense tells me... if you are white or black, and you slap a cop or beat one up for that matter... you are guaranteed a 100% bonafide asskicking... courtesy of the state.

C

and you're an attorney?

 

[Citruscide]

To subdue someone, cops sometimes need to use force. The tape shown on TV didn't show any of that, but force to subdue someone is justified.

Once the guy was handcuffed, and surrounded by what appeared to be 5 cops, he was subdued, and that's it. If you need to smack him around, do it back at the station where there are no cameras.

This is a stupid dumbass cop that will cost the taxpayers $10million in a settlement.

Oh yeah, I agree. those cops should have waited to slap the guy around back at the station... Chicago cops are smart like that... they are really nice and PC out in public, and then they beat the crap out of you back at the station.

C

 

[p0ink]

I know, you'll do anything that tramples on our constitutional due process rights. Glad you think Russia does things so well? Maybe a little bit of communism thrown in might work as well, eh?

Excessive force was used here, and that is simply impermissible. This "cop" deserves all of the public criticism he's getting and more. Remember, the Diallo incident, that was just police officers doing their jobs as well, right?

Yes, the suspect was in handcuffs. Thus, the officer exceed the force necessary to detain the suspect and should be charged with battery---- and fired.

you're one to talk. you get most of your beliefs and ideas straight out of the communist manifesto. may i remind you of your party's blatant disregard for the constitution with such things as campaign finance reform, gun control, allowing the epa to regulate personal property, etc. etc. you're just upset that you cant say america is great because of big government, and that we arent under a totalitarian rule, like you so desire.

and you act like police brutality is such a bad thing only when white men are beating up minorities, but i can understand why, since that is the *ONLY* police footage you see on tv. it would be perfectly fine if this kid was white right? but yes, back to russia. criminals do not fuck with police like they do here, because if they did such a thing, it would be their ass.

 

[manny78]

have you guys ever seen russian police videos? holy god. they just walk up to the guy they are going to 'apprehend' and just knock them square in the face, and then continue to beat the living shit out of them. i wish we could do that here...

fortunately it happens Here we have the same problem with Natives. For the medias they're untouchable dumbfucks. As soon as you approach one of these farts they start with their usual bullshit ("i'll get that story printed everywhere....blablabla"). Same thing with blacks, you touch one of them you're labeled of racist. What if the cop is black ? They'll most likely call him nigger, traitor, candy bar...... they dont even love their own race so what can you expect else from them when it comes to whites guys ?...

 

[Longhorn85]

They'll most likely call him nigger, traitor, candy bar...... they dont even love their own race so what can you expect else from them when it comes to whites guys ?...

Don't generalize, it only causes you to appear unintelligent and weakens the point you're trying to make.

 

[RyanH]

you're one to talk. you get most of your beliefs and ideas straight out of the communist manifesto. may i remind you of your party's blatant disregard for the constitution with such things as campaign finance reform, gun control, allowing the epa to regulate personal property, etc. etc. you're just upset that you cant say america is great because of big government, and that we arent under a totalitarian rule, like you so desire.

and you act like police brutality is such a bad thing only when white men are beating up minorities, but i can understand why, since that is the *ONLY* police footage you see on tv. it would be perfectly fine if this kid was white right? but yes, back to russia. criminals do not fuck with police like they do here, because if they did such a thing, it would be their ass.

There you go diverting from the real issue again----which is police brutality. You ought to learn to stay on topic.

Why do you think there are amendments to the United States Constitution, such as the search and seizure amendment and the 5th Amendment? The drafters were specifically concerned with the government allowing a police state to take hold. The police ought to be held to the same standard as other citizens in defending themselves which is that of reasonable force. Did this "cop" use reasonable force? The answer is clear.

I'm disappointed that you are still rebuking our constitution.

 

[manny78]

I know, you'll do anything that tramples on our constitutional due process rights. Glad you think Russia does things so well? Maybe a little bit of communism thrown in might work as well, eh?

Excessive force was used here, and that is simply impermissible. This "cop" deserves all of the public criticism he's getting and more. Remember, the Diallo incident, that was just police officers doing their jobs as well, right?

Yes, the suspect was in handcuffs. Thus, the officer exceed the force necessary to detain the suspect and should be charged with battery---- and fired.

RyanH, one day if you come to Montreal I'll introduce you to the anti-gang unit and they'll take you for a tour in the ghetto. I'm pretty sure your opinion will then change.

 

[manny78]

Don't generalize, it only causes you to appear unintelligent and weakens the point you're trying to make.

bro, ask any black officer and they will give you the same answer: they're always called the same shit. BUT I can't say the same about asiatic people.

 

[RyanH]

its statement like these where you lose any credibiltity. So, when someones in cuffs they are incapable of harming an officer or escaping? What fucking planet do you live on?

And its pretty weak to liken this situation to having a baton shoved up his ass.

The point is that NONE of us know what happened. All we have seen is a silent video. You can't tell what type of resistance this kid is putting up. You can't tell if he was bucking in the officers grip or trying to bite someone.

oh please. I'm sure any reasonable person watching this video will say what sort of threat the suspect posed after being detained in handcuffs. lol.

This "cop" is history. Deal with it.

 

[RyanH]

RyanH, one day if you come to Montreal I'll introduce you to the anti-gang unit and they'll take you for a tour in the ghetto. I'm pretty sure your opinion will then change.

But that's ignoring this specific incident. Please tell us why excessive force was not used here.

 

[manny78]

But that's ignoring this specific incident. Please tell us why excessive force was not used here.

didnt see the video but if you could provide me a link I will gladly watch it and give you my opinion.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

????????????

does anyone have a link to this story??? I caught a very brief video clip of what I think it was on the news, but I'd like to read more into it before attempting to form an opinion....

 

[RyanH]

hmm....Manny I saw it on television last night. But, I would try www.cnn.com or any other major news outlet; they might have a video of it.

 

[p0ink]

this is just like the rodney king incident, where some tourist turns on their camcorder as the cops begin to 'beat' him, but the news organizations failed to mention that he was hopped up on PCP and liqour, endangering others by driving at speeds exceeding 100mph, and fighting with and resisting arrests with the police officers. poor rodney king...

 

[Code]

If you can't listen to the cops and are dumb enough to assault one, you deserve a serious beat down.

In fact, no need to charge people with assault, just beat the idiot down. Break a few bones and be done with it.

 

[manny78]

btw why would someone wear one of those stupid uggly chains ?

 

[Y_lifter]

Why would anyone Post a detailed response to this incident here without first at least seeing the video and reading an early account of the situation as it played out?

I'm sure a few details will come out in the next few days but IMO the video if VERY CLEAR, VERY CLOSEUP and very damning of the officer striking the dude in the face while his face is pressed against the car as he is bent over handcuffed.

 

[p0ink]

btw why would someone wear one of those stupid uggly chains ?

better to choke them with.

 

[Citruscide]

Like P0ink said,

Someone can beat the crap out of people, do all sorts of horrible things and then the cops beat him around a little and is 'Ohhhh... poor guy he got beat up' -- WHAT?! If I had a medal I'd give it to cops like that... hell, If I knocked a cop out and 10 cops were coming, and I go "Oh, ok, ... I give up" -- I'd EXPECT to get at least 3-5 good solid hits by them... and not bitch about it...

C

 

[manny78]

Ok I saw the video but that stupid tourist only pressed the "Play" button when it was at his advantage. I would like to see what happened before. How much you guys bet this dude tried to act like some P.Diddy or NWA ? lol

 

[TheProject]

oh please. I'm sure any reasonable person watching this video will say what sort of threat the suspect posed after being detained in handcuffs. lol.

This "cop" is history. Deal with it.

Yeah, a suspect in handcuffs is completely harmless.

 

[RyanH]

oh please. I'm sure that when AIDS came out any reasonable person would have said the fagboys created it considering the diproportionate number of gays that were dying from it.

Are those people still reasonable?

And we forgot you were the resident expert on everthing including policework.

I'm simply a proponent of our Constitution, something you could learn from. The police are not privileged to use excessive force in detaining a suspect, just as police are not privileged to detain a suspect for a disproportionate amount of time w/o probable cause. Nor, are they allowed to use confessions as substantive evidence without reading a suspect's Miranda warnings first. Premise: there are restrictions even police must adhere to, police are not above the law.

But, those from your radical posse seek to attack our Constitution, denying it the respect it deserves. For example, Bush has already initiated the attack on our Constitution by seeking to prohibit confidential communications (a constitutional privilege) between an attorney and his/her client. Bush's followers want to continue that unAmerican legacy; congratulations on being one of those followers.

You're analogy to AIDS also stinks since assumptions as to who created AIDS were based on ignorance, whereas assumptions in the present case are based on, well, FACTS. Or, has the video been tampered with?

 

[the nature boy]

one thing that looked excessive is that the guy was pushed up against the car and cuffed, and some cop punched him in the face.

That is excessive.

 

[RyanH]

one thing that looked excessive is that the guy was pushed up against the car and cuffed, and some cop punched him in the face.

That is excessive.

obvious isn't it?

Project, of course, a suspect in handcuffs is not always completely harmless, which is why you look to the particular circumstances: was the suspect resisting, how many cops were at the scene, etc. This particular circumstance does not show that REASONABLE force was used.

 

[TheProject]

Project, of course, a suspect in handcuffs is not always completely harmless, which is why you look to the particular circumstances: was the suspect resisting, how many cops were at the scene, etc. This particular circumstance does not show that REASONABLE force was used.

I haven't seen the video, so I don't have an informed opinion. Your previous post seemed to imply that once the cuffs are on, every suspect is going to come along quietly.

Having heard stories from a couple of cops, I know it doesn't always work that way.

Around here, there have been several suspects who've had their heads planted into counters well after they were cuffed and at the station because they decided it would be a good idea to cause trouble again.

 

[the nature boy]

my point is this, I wouldn't make much light of what happened prior to the punch in the face, but the punch itself was too much. He was pressed up against the car, his face was pressed up against the car, and he got punched in the chops.

They could have maced him IMO.

 

[RyanH]

Ryanh you don't know anything about me or my "radical posse." (sounds like an '80's skateboard movie huh?) I didn't even know I have a "Radical Posse," but it sounds cool and me and my friends are going to call ourselves that from now on when we go clubbing.

And yes I agree cops need to adhere to the rules like the rest of us.

But I disagree with you that all the "facts" have been presented in this case. The kid could have been resisting. Something imperceptible. A silent video tape that shows a partial clip from a distanced viewpoint hardly constitues all the FACTS necessary to come to a correct conclusion. You're a lawyer, you should know that.

Assuming arguendo, that the suspect was resisting arrest: Is a punch to the face necessary to detain the victim?

note the word victim, heh heh.

 

[TheProject]

my point is this, I wouldn't make much light of what happened prior to the punch in the face, but the punch itself was too much. He was pressed up against the car, his face was pressed up against the car, and he got punched in the chops.

They could have maced him IMO.

From what I've been told, physical restraint is preferred over pepper spray because there's less paperwork.

 

[RyanH]

From what I've been told, physical restraint is preferred over pepper spray because there's less paperwork.

there's a good reason.

 

[the nature boy]

From what I've been told, physical restraint is preferred over pepper spray because there's less paperwork.

heh, now there's gonna be a shit load of paperwork.

 

[manny78]

From what I've been told, physical restraint is preferred over pepper spray because there's less paperwork.

Pepper can't be used at anytime for any reasons. First if the person seems to be on drugs you can't. Same thing with teenagers. The Taser would have been the perfect in this situation assuming they had one.

 

[Lao Tzu]

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/video...urce2.html?clip=/media/2002/07/09/video514539



why exactly would the police need to body slam someone into a car when he didn't appear to be fighting back, or punch him in the head.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

well, now that I've watched the video...

.....about 16 times...lol I fell that I can make a half-judgement... if you watch the video closely, you'll see that the officer that slammed him into the hood of the car, and the officer that punched him are the same cop. Now, upon closer inspection of the video, you'll see a 3-inch long cut above said officer's left ear. Also, on the news report, it says there is the possibility of the existence of more video, possibly from the gas station's cameras or even other people that took pictures. First of all, Inglewood Police did NOT make the traffic stop, LA CO. Sheriffs did. They (county sheriffs) called for backup when the youth allegedly became combative and attempted to strike a deputy. Obviously, there WAS in fact a struggle, because that Inglewood officer probably did not get that cut on his head by magic. Now, back to the Question at hand, was that ONE officer's behavior excessive??? I must say yes and no. Here's why......

1. I do NOT think slamming him on the hood was excessive, if he had just cracked me in the head, and I was bleeding, I probably would've "put him against the car" kind of hard too.... However, the punch in the face, after the fact WAS, IMO, excessive. He was clearly handcuffed, against the car, and you can see another officer holding him back.

2. Now, the punch in the face CAN and probably WILL in court be attributed to the adrenaline and possible rage the officer was feeling in the wake of having his head cut open. Of course, the suspect's lawyer will retort to that with the fact that cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard.

Bottom line, odds are, when all is said and done, we'll find out that this kid DID in fact, fight with the police, and if that is the case, IMO, he got less than what should come to him. HOWEVER, my opinion isn't what matters here, it is the law that matters, and sometimes JUSTICE and the LAW are two COMPLETELY different things.....

 

[RyanH]

Re: well, now that I've watched the video...

.....about 16 times...lol I fell that I can make a half-judgement... if you watch the video closely, you'll see that the officer that slammed him into the hood of the car, and the officer that punched him are the same cop. Now, upon closer inspection of the video, you'll see a 3-inch long cut above said officer's left ear. Also, on the news report, it says there is the possibility of the existence of more video, possibly from the gas station's cameras or even other people that took pictures. First of all, Inglewood Police did NOT make the traffic stop, LA CO. Sheriffs did. They (county sheriffs) called for backup when the youth allegedly became combative and attempted to strike a deputy. Obviously, there WAS in fact a struggle, because that Inglewood officer probably did not get that cut on his head by magic. Now, back to the Question at hand, was that ONE officer's behavior excessive??? I must say yes and no. Here's why......

1. I do NOT think slamming him on the hood was excessive, if he had just cracked me in the head, and I was bleeding, I probably would've "put him against the car" kind of hard too.... However, the punch in the face, after the fact WAS, IMO, excessive. He was clearly handcuffed, against the car, and you can see another officer holding him back.

2. Now, the punch in the face CAN and probably WILL in court be attributed to the adrenaline and possible rage the officer was feeling in the wake of having his head cut open. Of course, the suspect's lawyer will retort to that with the fact that cops are supposed to be held to a higher standard.

Bottom line, odds are, when all is said and done, we'll find out that this kid DID in fact, fight with the police, and if that is the case, IMO, he got less than what should come to him. HOWEVER, my opinion isn't what matters here, it is the law that matters, and sometimes JUSTICE and the LAW are two COMPLETELY different things.....

I don't believe cops ought to be held to a higher standard. They should simply be held to the standard as any citizen is held to when defending him/herself. That standard is "reasonable force", and punching a suspect after putting him into handcuffs is unreasonable.

 

[TheProject]

Pepper can't be used at anytime for any reasons. First if the person seems to be on drugs you can't. Same thing with teenagers. The Taser would have been the perfect in this situation assuming they had one.

Oh, I know that. But even in cases where it could be used, a lot of times it's not for no other reason than paperwork.

The actually did a survey of the local officers here, and one of my buddies seriously suggested tasers.

 

[Natymike]

I'm all against the racial factor involved, but that WAS excessive and totally uncessary. The dude was practically limp, he picks him up and slams him, then slugs him in the face.

The cop should be punished, but the thought of hearing all those pathetic civil rights activists is making me wanna puke.

If the dude was white, this would of never made the news, and thats what is upsetting.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: well, now that I've watched the video...

I don't believe cops ought to be held to a higher standard. They should simply be held to the standard as any citizen is held to when defending him/herself. That standard is "reasonable force", and punching a suspect after putting him into handcuffs is unreasonable.

From that standpoint, I agree w/you. The only thing that we (the general public) have to understand, is that police officers are still human, and one incident like this does not necessarily make this guy a bad cop. He obviously got hit pretty hard himself from the looks of the cut on his own head, and because of that he lost his cool. For this, he deserves a suspension, but he certianly doesn't (IMO) deserve to be fired...

Of course we also have to take into consideration the fact that the boy and his father are oppurtunists, and they're going to embellish this story as much as they feel is necessary to make this kid look completely innocent and the police were just randomly, for no reason, giving him a beating.

 

[RyanH]

Re: Re: Re: well, now that I've watched the video...

From that standpoint, I agree w/you. The only thing that we (the general public) have to understand, is that police officers are still human, and one incident like this does not necessarily make this guy a bad cop. He obviously got hit pretty hard himself from the looks of the cut on his own head, and because of that he lost his cool. For this, he deserves a suspension, but he certianly doesn't (IMO) deserve to be fired...

I don't think this battery makes the cop a "bad" person, but I do believe it makes him a "bad" cop. While the officer should have the capacity to defend himself just as any other citizen should, do we want a cop policing others for battery, when he is guilty of battery himself.

 

[chesty]

I am amazed at all of the armchair cops here. I for one can tell yo that a person in cuffs can be quite deadly. How many of you have restrained an indivdiual hell bent on fighting? In cuffs? I thought not. That kid got whooped on because he was fighting, period. Also, How is it racist when black cops were helping to subdue him?

BTW, cameras are all over the stations and jails. They are to protect the cops. Wait till the dashboard cams are reviewed in this situation.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: well, now that I've watched the video...

I don't think this battery makes the cop a "bad" person, but I do believe it makes him a "bad" cop. While the officer should have the capacity to defend himself just as any other citizen should, do we want a cop policing others for battery, when he is guilty of battery himself.

Well, let's look at it from the liberal-defense-attorney point of view. To do that, of course, we'll have to take into account the officer's mental state at that very moment, how the planets were aligned, if his gloves fit correctly, and whether or not he was fighting with his wife that morning. Only then can we MAYBE say whether or not the officer can be held accountable for his actions...lol

Seriously, though, I do believe, as stated earlier, that a stiff suspension is warranted for his second action (the punch). However, assault and battery, even if convicted, is still a misdemeanor, which does not exclude ANYONE from being (or remaining) a police officer. The only Misdemeanor that if convicted carries felony penalties (at least in my state) is DOMESTIC battery, which clearly this was not.

Ryan, the guy was out of line for the punch, yes, but he should not be permanently punished, (i.e. having his livelihood taken from him) for one transgression. Let us not forget that this is a misdemeanor battery, at best, and that's IF they can show that there was no previous struggle on the part of the kid who was 'assaulted'. Juries tend to look not-so-favorably upon people who assault police and may very well acquit the officer, IF HE'S EVEN OFFICIALLY CHARGED.... which has not happened as of yet. He has been put on administtrative leave, (with pay) pending the investigation, which is a formality and happens in most departments when something like this happens.....

 

[the nature boy]

yeah I don't think this was a racially motivated thing in this case, because there was a black cop assisting when the dude got punched in the fact.

 

[RyanH]

Chesty--
What sort of specialized expertise is needed in determining whether a suspect poses a sufficient threat, in handcuffs, to warrant being punched in the face?

I think you are construing the attack on this particular officer as an attack on ALL officers. You shouldn't do that. We all know that the vast majority of cops aren't rogue cops who abuse their positions but, instead, are cops that sacrifice life and limb for the average citizen.

But, as in every barrel, there are always a few bad apples.

And well, this is just another bad apple.

 

[Y_lifter]

Re: Re: well, now that I've watched the video...

Originally posted by RyanH
I don't believe cops ought to be held to a higher standard. They should simply be held to the standard as any citizen is held to when defending him/herself. That standard is "reasonable force", and punching a suspect after putting him into handcuffs is unreasonable.

Actually Police should be held to a Higher standard IMO because of one thing they have that the average citi doesn't..

TRAINING..

Training to realize a situation is GETTING out of control and as barny fife would say "nip it in the bud" by gaining control with verbal, physical or numerical superiority. Calling for backup as was done instead of just rushing in and shooting the dude dead.

Training to control and put safely into custody someone and keep under control as best they can their social ideas and pride.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

I am amazed at all of the armchair cops here. I for one can tell yo that a person in cuffs can be quite deadly. How many of you have restrained an indivdiual hell bent on fighting? In cuffs? I thought not. That kid got whooped on because he was fighting, period. Also, How is it racist when black cops were helping to subdue him?

BTW, cameras are all over the stations and jails. They are to protect the cops. Wait till the dashboard cams are reviewed in this situation.

Well, to answer part of your question, I HAVE restrained MANY a fighting suspect, but if you watch the video closely, the kid was leaned way too far foreward and pushed down on the car when he got punched. I'm not saying he didn't DESERVE to get smacked, and I think he deserved to get smashed on the car. But to allege that at that point he was still dangerous does more harm than good to this cop's case. COULD someone in handcuffs still be dangerous??? yes, of course, but because of the position he was placed in at that point, that is not the case here....

 

[Natymike]

I am amazed at all of the armchair cops here. I for one can tell yo that a person in cuffs can be quite deadly. How many of you have restrained an indivdiual hell bent on fighting? In cuffs? I thought not. That kid got whooped on because he was fighting, period. Also, How is it racist when black cops were helping to subdue him?

BTW, cameras are all over the stations and jails. They are to protect the cops. Wait till the dashboard cams are reviewed in this situation.

I'm well aware that someone can be deadly in cuffs, but that doesn't justify slamming him and punching him when he is doing nothing, you can't deny what the film is showing chesty. The dude is not "hell bent on fighting", this is obvious.

 

[chesty]

How do you know the punch was unwarranted? I had a drunk in cuffs once who damn near bit a chunk out of my leg and he was cuffed. You see it is all relative and unless you were there prior to the video and afterwards, you cannot say what is warranted and what is not.

 

[Burning_Inside]

from the article i read in my local paper, it said nothing about the kid lunging at the cops. I've read interviews from a bunch of people who reviewed the tape and they said the officer's actions were despicable. The 16 year old kid had some kind of learning and growwth disability too. I've never read anything yet that said the kid attacked the officer. Even if he only mouthed off, that's no reason for the fuck to do what he did, I hope he gets his ass beat. If it's one thing I simpy cannot stand in this world is abusive police.

 

[Natymike]

How do you know the punch was unwarranted? I had a drunk in cuffs once who damn near bit a chunk out of my leg and he was cuffed. You see it is all relative and unless you were there prior to the video and afterwards, you cannot say what is warranted and what is not.

When is a punch in the face from a cop ever warranted??

maybe if you have a gun to his head or something, but not in this situation, please.

I don't care if he was fighting with them earlier, by this time the situation was obviously under control, there were 6 cops standing around and he jacked him in the face because he turned around and said something.

 

[the nature boy]

well regardless, thank goodness it's not a racially motivated incident. espcecially since i'm working in downtown LA this week.

 

[chesty]

Well back to the drunk who bit me. Not only did he do that, he was bucking us all the way to the car and the only way to subdue him without cracking his skull was to face plant him on the trunk of my car. It was that or the pavement. And the trunk lid is a lot less painfull. This drunk also then tried to bite 5 more detention officers and so on. All the while he was cuffed.

You saw a video clip of someone gettin his ass beat, nothing more.

What if it was a video of the cop getting his ass beat by this black dude? Would it be called racist? Would it be called unjustified? Would it be excessive force?... I think not.

The thing that pisses me off is it is these same people that scream we are not protecting them.

Everyone was all for Rodney King, what they didn't know was he was on pcp, led the cops on a high speed car chase, was shot three times with tasers, each time pulling the leads out while 50,000 volts was running through his body, then he refused to listen to the cops.

He was oh so innocent, LA paid his ass millions of bucks, he pissed that away, was rearrested for numerous offenses after the fact.

And all because of this dumbass, a riot insued, a white man was almost killed on camera by black men (no sensationalism there) the chopper hovered overhead and refused to help him (hoping he would be killed for the sensationlism) All this for a dumbass who deserved his ass whooping.

I feel sorry for la, they need help.

 

[circusgirl]

Hmmmm I do martial arts, and we've had a few talks about what constitutes "reasonble" force in self-defense. We were told that we should try to execute techniques such as grabbing, holding, throws, locks etc rather than striking techniques such as punches and kicks as these latter techniques can very easily be viewed as excessive.

I suspect that in this case either:
a) the cop was intentionally kicking the guy's ass, soemthing I know the cops here in Europe do all the time, and it can't be tolerated, or they get arrogant.
b) the cop needs a refresher course in control and restraint, as he is leaving himself wide open there.

A punch is not a good self-defense technique unless you can prove pretty clearly you were in the right - an arm lock is much more effective and doesn't do much in the way of tissue damage -> reduced liability.

Note, I haven't seen the video, so I can't say whether it's a or b above.

I don't think it's ok to tolerate police violence though, as the tolerance of this in my home country (Ireland) has led to a situation where the police pretty much hand out beatings whenever they damn feel like it. They just make sure they don't target anyone middle class. (my source, some off-duty cops bragging). Note I am not saying olice violence occurred in this particular situation.

 

[KAYNE]

COME TO ORLEANS PARISH, A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THE PD IN THAT PARISH HAD THE HIGHEST BRUTALITY RATE IN THE NATION. BUT YOU DONT HEAR ABOUT IT ON THE NEWS DO YOU?


KAYNE

 

[FLASHMAN1]

How do you know the punch was unwarranted? I had a drunk in cuffs once who damn near bit a chunk out of my leg and he was cuffed. You see it is all relative and unless you were there prior to the video and afterwards, you cannot say what is warranted and what is not.

The reason I believe that the punch wasn't warranted BY LAW is clearly illustrated in my description in my last post. I.E. suspect's position against the car, etc. Also, to justify striking someone FROM BEHIND, as that cop did, the person would have to be still struggling AT THAT TIME. Watch the video, he was not. He may have been talking shit, which IMO is enough for him to DESERVE getting a smack, but again, sometimes justice and the law don't coincide. Bottom line, this kid wasn't going to bite anyone, as his face was pressed firmly into the trunk of a police car. My interpretation of that video is that the other cops saw that thier fellow officer was hot, and possibly not fit to deal with the kid because of how pissed he was. That's why (again IMO) the other cop, (the bald one) took over holding him and the other officers seemed to be trying to keep him away.

Situations like this are the very reason I chose to leave Law Enforcement behind as a career in favor of a more lucrative, less dangerous position in society. I learned very quickly that I do not have the disposition to deal with rapists, child molesters, and all around scumbags in a diplomatic manner. I've thrown more than a few old-school beatings in my time, and though I thought at the time they were well-deserved, I'm certianly glad my ass didn't end up on some asshole's handycam.

 

[KAYNE]

I COULDNT BE A COP. I WOULD BECOME WHAT I DESPISE SOO MUCH. I SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE TO BE A COP. THATS WHY I SAY THAT IF YOU ABUSE YOUR POWER (I.E..BEATING PEOPLE AND BEING A COMPLETE DICK WHEN UNNECESSARY) AND DONT HAVE THE PATIENCE, DONT BE A COP. HOWEVER, IMO MOST COPS DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE BUT ARE STILL COPS.


KAYNE

 

[Natymike]

well regardless, thank goodness it's not a racially motivated incident. espcecially since i'm working in downtown LA this week.

Lol, don't hold your breath, their is a lawsuit being filed this week, and we all know the race card will be the central focus.

 

[KAYNE]

WHY DONT WHITE PEOPLE EVER PULL THE RACE CARD??? AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT WE ARENT VICTIMS OF RACISM EITHER.


KAYNE

 

[FLASHMAN1]

WHY DONT WHITE PEOPLE EVER PULL THE RACE CARD??? AND I DONT WANT TO HEAR THAT WE ARENT VICTIMS OF RACISM EITHER.


KAYNE

Because even though white people ARE victims of reverse racism, no one in society (most white people included) do not take it seriously.... sad, but true....

 

[Natymike]

Because even though white people ARE victims of reverse racism, no one in society (most white people included) do not take it seriously.... sad, but true....

true

 

[the nature boy]

Lol, don't hold your breath, their is a lawsuit being filed this week, and we all know the race card will be the central focus.

well I'm buying a gun then.

I remember during the LA riots they were showing these asian store owners defending their stores using MAC-10's and shit. And they were firing them! Good for them I say.

 

[KAYNE]

WELL I WAS THINKING THAT WE WERENT ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO BLAME SHIT ON EVERYONE ESLE. LIKE PEOPLE WHO PULL THE RACE CARD DO.


KAYNE

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Let these fools riot. I'll be home sitting on the couch laughing at these ignoramuses as they destroy their own neighborhoods again hahahahahaha

 

[the nature boy]

Because even though white people ARE victims of reverse racism, no one in society (most white people included) do not take it seriously.... sad, but true....

yeah well Reginald Denny probably did. the media didn't , which sucked.

 

[chesty]

Well, if I watch the video, I may change my mind, but from the pictures I saw, This had nothing to do with race, and the kid was resisting.

What will be interesting is whether or not the officer ever had a history of excessive force in the past.

But, it seems to me, that if they were not breaking the law then none of this would have ever happened.

 

[Torch]

I am amazed at all of the armchair cops here. I for one can tell yo that a person in cuffs can be quite deadly. How many of you have restrained an indivdiual hell bent on fighting? In cuffs? I thought not. That kid got whooped on because he was fighting, period. Also, How is it racist when black cops were helping to subdue him?

If he was fighting then they secured him to the ground and got the cuffs on him. From that point on there seemed to be no resistance from the kid. So why continue to punch the kid instead of just putting him in the car, cause he fucked up thats why. Black hate on black all the time

 

[RyanH]

The reasons race is an issue is because whites have made it an issue---Recall, Rodney King, Diallo, racial profiling by police officers.

When a few rogue cops stop singling African-Americans out, then the race issue will----disappear.

 

[the nature boy]

Well, if I watch the video, I may change my mind, but from the pictures I saw, This had nothing to do with race, and the kid was resisting.

What will be interesting is whether or not the officer ever had a history of excessive force in the past.

But, it seems to me, that if they were not breaking the law then none of this would have ever happened.

well what happens when you have an agressive cop pull you over or arrest you when it was a mistake?

 

[Code]

well what happens when you have an agressive cop pull you over or arrest you when it was a mistake?

You obey him.

If you don't obey him, and you get rowdy you deserve a full on beating.

 

[RyanH]

You obey him.

If you don't obey him, and you get rowdy you deserve a full on beating.

maybe that's how they do things in China, but not in the United States of America. Our laws don't justify the kind of brutality you're recommending.

 

[chesty]

RyanH, whites didn't play the race card with king, king was just a drugged up dumbass. Profiling is such a joke. If you actually prevented profiling, then we could never go after the bad guys, cause the mere descripition then would mean profiling those that fit it so we could find the bad guy.

If you get arrested by a big ape looking Deputy (such as myself) you are best to be a yes sirin and a no sirin cause if you swing on us, you will get your ass beat down.!

 

[Code]

maybe that's how they do things in China, but not in the United States of America. Our laws don't justify the kind of brutality you're recommending.

That's one of the problems with our nation. We bitch when the cops don't do enough and then we bitch when cops do too much.

If you are STUPID enough to become combative with police officers, you qualify for a beating.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I also think that grocery register clerks should be given full authority to give out beat-downs.
there are far too many morons out there and they need to be taught a lesson. just as bad as people that fuck with cops, are those jackasses that slow up the lines.
beat them down.
that is what I say.

 

[Code]

I also think that grocery register clerks should be given full authority to give out beat-downs.
there are far too many morons out there and they need to be taught a lesson. just as bad as people that fuck with cops, are those jackasses that slow up the lines.
beat them down.
that is what I say.

Like beat down the fools who bring 11 items through the 10 Item lane.

 

[the nature boy]

You obey him.

If you don't obey him, and you get rowdy you deserve a full on beating.

so what happens if you get beat for no reason? I'm sure it's happened before. Dickheads exist in all walks of life, police are no different.

 

[danielson]

saw the video. didnt read any previous replies but......

while the cop in question did lose control and used ecessive force, he did get a nasty gash to his head courtesy of the attacker. so whuile he should be disciplined as he (in that position) shouldnt be losing control, it shouldnt be a particularly harsh punishment, maybe anger management or something like that. all other public servants get increased scrutiny (doctors, nurses, firemen) when they fuck up, so simply saying 'allow it he's a cop he can get away with that shit' is unnacceptable especiial post r.king, but this shouldnt be a scapegoat punishment

no hint whatsoever of any racial motivation. if they use his race to get the cop sacked its bs as they cant prove it (unless he has an active membership to the KKK or somethuing like that)

 

[Y_lifter]

I also think that grocery register clerks should be given full authority to give out beat-downs.
there are far too many morons out there and they need to be taught a lesson. just as bad as people that fuck with cops, are those jackasses that slow up the lines.
beat them down.
that is what I say.

Hell yea !
Give the honey's batons for those 12 items in the 8 item lane bastards...

 

[RyanH]

RyanH, whites didn't play the race card with king, king was just a drugged up dumbass. Profiling is such a joke. If you actually prevented profiling, then we could never go after the bad guys, cause the mere descripition then would mean profiling those that fit it so we could find the bad guy.

If you get arrested by a big ape looking Deputy (such as myself) you are best to be a yes sirin and a no sirin cause if you swing on us, you will get your ass beat down.!

Chesty, come on, those cops beat the shit out of Rodney King. There's no doubt that those "cops" had absolutely NO justification for beating Mr. King the way they did. What's next? the Diallo shooting in New York or the plunger incident in New York were justified also?

The problem with racial profiling is that it constructively applies the crimes of a few onto an entire race. Where's fairness and justice in that?

As for the "big ape" comment---any "big ape" can stop and frisk me for any cause---probable cause or reasonable suspicion not needed. heh. heh.

 

[Code]

Chesty, come on, those cops beat the shit out of Rodney King. There's no doubt that those "cops" had absolutely NO justification for beating Mr. King the way they did. What's next? the Diallo shooting in New York or the plunger incident in New York were justified also?

The problem with racial profiling is that it constructively applies the crimes of a few onto an entire race. Where's fairness and justice in that?

As for the "big ape" comment---any "big ape" can stop and frisk me for any cause---probable cause or reasonable suspicion not needed. heh. heh.

The cops were beating Rodney King because he continually tried getting up, they were yelling at him to stay down and the moron kept trying to get up.

Diallo got shot because the cops thought he was pulling a gun on him.

A cop's only goal is to come home alive. And at the slightest indication of deadly force, they are going to protect that goal.

I'd love to see you (or any of you liberals) attempt to enforce the law in the streets. You'd be curled up in a ball asking for your mommy the second you strolled into the ghetto.

 

[Natymike]

The reasons race is an issue is because whites have made it an issue---Recall, Rodney King, Diallo, racial profiling by police officers.

When a few rogue cops stop singling African-Americans out, then the race issue will----disappear.

ha

Whites have made it an issue?? Wrong, blacks have made it an issue because THEY HAVE CREATED A FALSE PERCEPTION that racism is an extremely abundant problem.

In fact, The NAACP stated that the #1 problem facing blacks is the "new racist"

I find it unbelievable that you can blame your entire groups problems on other people.

When Afircan Americans eventually get over this false perception that everyone is out to get them, THEN AND ONLY THEN, will the race issue dissapear.

 

[RyanH]

Code---the Diallo shooting was justified?

all 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 shots?

That sure is A LOT of bangs needed to take someone out, don't you think?

 

[FLASHMAN1]

But, it seems to me, that if they were not breaking the law then none of this would have ever happened.

I agree completely on this point, that's why I left law enforcement behind as stated in my previous post. Too often JUSTICE and the LAW don't compliment each other......

 

[Code]

Code---the Diallo shot was justified?

all 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 ?

That sure is A LOT of bangs needed to take someone out, don't you think?

You do not shoot to injure or shoot to stop someone, you shoot to kill.
He was killed.

It wasn't a justifiable death, the Diallo family should be compensated.

 

[rotovibe]

The media is blowing this out of proportion period.
There is no such thing as true journalism anymore. It's as bad as ambulance chasing. They make issues out of everything. They slant the story every which way to make ISSUES.
It makes me sick.
The media doesn't realize the power they have.
If anything we should have mandates on corporate media entities. Regulate what they can cover and what they can't. And to cover it objectively.
IMO, it's all tabloid tactics.
"people should know the truth!..." give me a break.

 

[aurelius]

have you guys ever seen russian police videos? holy god. they just walk up to the guy they are going to 'apprehend' and just knock them square in the face, and then continue to beat the living shit out of them. i wish we could do that here...

Yeah, right. Where were these tough guys during the riots in Moscow? I was there, there wasn´t a single one anywhere to be seen. Half of them were probably drunk and the other half at home watching the game.

After that incident later in the evening I was walking back from the store and was about to walk down the street with my girlfriend where a lot of glass had been broken. A cop chases after me and starts screeching at me something in Russian, club in hand. My girlfriend managed to mutter "we don´t speak Russian" before he turned out the lights. "Speak RAAASHIIIIN!" he started to shriek before begrudgling letting us hooligans walk through the park.

 

[RyanH]

ha

Whites have made it an issue?? Wrong, blacks have made it an issue because THEY HAVE CREATED A FALSE PERCEPTION that racism is an extremely abundant problem.

In fact, The NAACP stated that the #1 problem facing blacks is the "new racist"

I find it unbelievable that you can blame your entire groups problems on other people.

When Afircan Americans eventually get over this false perception that everyone is out to get them, THEN AND ONLY THEN, will the race issue dissapear.

perception? you mean, reality? Read any history book and you'll find that just over 30 years ago African-Americans were still being beaten down in the streets and were being denied admission into many of our nation's universities.

Moreover, read, any recent newspaper and you'll find polls where African-Americans overwhelmingly allege that they have been the victims of racial profiling. Browse through any federal court reporter and you'll find an abundance of cases where both juries and appeals courts have agreed that African-Americans have been the target of invidious discrimination.

And you wonder why African-Americans believe that some whites are often out to get them? I'll remind you why----because they sometimes are--if not overtly, then covertly.

 

[casavant]

The reasons race is an issue is because whites have made it an issue---Recall, Rodney King, Diallo, racial profiling by police officers.

When a few rogue cops stop singling African-Americans out, then the race issue will----disappear.

Man, I agree that there are some racist cops out there, but this statement doesn't ring true with me at all. It's oversimplified, to say the least.

 

[chesty]

Really, he didn't deserve the beatin (rodney king that is) re-read my post above where I told you what king had done prior to his righteous ass whoopin.

RyanH, try grape ape I am sure he won't leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Natymike]

perception? you mean, reality? Read any history book and you'll find that just over 30 years ago African-Americans were still being beaten down in the streets and were being denied admission into many of our nation's universities.

Moreover, read, any recent newspaper and you'll find polls where African-Americans overwhelmingly allege that they have been the victims of racial profiling. Browse through any federal court reporter and you'll find an abundance of cases where both juries and appeals courts have agreed that African-Americans have been the target of invidious discrimination.

And you wonder why African-Americans believe that some whites are often out to get them? I'll remind you why----because they sometimes are--if not overtly, then covertly.

you have done nothing to counteract my post, I stand by it.