Please Help!!!

[animal69112]

okay i've been currently working out since i was 16 on and off. I've been dedicated and on for the last 3yrs. I'm almost 22. I've decided to go ahead and do steroids.
I began researching about a yr ago, and debated back and forth if i should do them or not. My stats are 5'10" 227lbs about 18.5-19.5% body fat, and my diet is AWSOME.
My goal is to become about 5'10" 205lbs lean. I dont need a six pac but it would be nice...so i want to gain strength muscle mass while losing fat

2 cycles recomended to me by my source are as follows:

clen/t3/winny....all oral
clen-oxyflux
winny-ip 50mg
t3-cynomel

I would be taking clen 2 weeks off 2 weeks on...and t3 for 5 weeks straight in between and one 50mg winny daily and eca while not on clen, the cycle would last a total of 8 weeks.

thats the first choice

the second choice is finaplix/winny

he recomended this because he said i would gain lots of strength and muscle mass while getting harder and i would lose fat
finaplix 60mg every other day or 30mg every day...not decided yet
100mg winny tabs every day
fina for 40 day winny for 50 days...simultaneously
keep in mind i am a begginer
i've heard that its not good for a begginer to use fina...but if they do they're homework it is okay...thats what i'm doing fellas...HOMEWORK
my supplier likes the fina/winny cycle better...even though...it will cost less...
thanks for the advice in advance

 

[doublebicep]

You post is just to hard to read. No capitals, no punctuation, just one long sentence with a few: ...

it...is...giving...me...a...headache...it...will...be...interesting...to...see...if...you....get...anyone...to...decode...it...and...reply...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Little Rage]

your source should be shot.

a beginner should not be using t-3.
also winny and clen will not be enough to prevent you from losing muscle, though it would limit it.

secondly i do not recommend fina for a newbie.

Run a simple test for 10 wks, that will be sufficient.

 

[animal69112]

if i run test i will gain pounds...i dont want to gain pounds

 

[Spidey]

You can cut on ANY AS, Test included. It is all diet, diet, diet.

 

[thx9000]

I'm sorry there's just way to much that's wrong here. I mean, 20% bf with a great wo routine and great diet...something's not adding up. Sorry.

Loose your fat FIRST, don't rely on gear for that.
Don't use T3 at this point
DONT use Fina at this point.

Just spend the next few months working the fat off and reading about a proper first cycle.

 

[Zyglamail]

Eeeek! 100mg winny ED, my guess is you will be too achy to get out of bed.

 

[RADAR]

I'm running test enanthate,which causes some bloat in people,I'm ripped-also i am not taking anything with it...diet is the key 90% sucess depends on your diet,if you can't follow that,then you're not ready for gear!!!


RADAR

 

[animal69112]

what do you mean too achy?
why shouldnt i use fina and winny? if you tell me what to do...at least tell me why thanks

 

[animal69112]

my diet is FLAWLESS

 

[Zyglamail]

my diet is FLAWLESS

If your diet is flawless then you shouldnt be at 18+% bodyfat (no insult intended, simple truth).

Winny is notorious for causing very achy joints, so much so that at doses much lower than 100mg ED it interferes with people being able to lift due to the pain.

 

[animal69112]

thanks zyglamil for the info...about the winny
and my body fat use to be at 37% at 250...and then when i dropped down to 192lbs i was 16% , now i'm 227lbs and only added 2.5 percent body fat, so my diet is very good

 

[animal69112]

can you guys give me some suggestions for a cycle that would help me gain muscle while significantly reducing body fat?

 

[rvd_brock]

Run sustanon @ 250-500 mg per week for like 8-9 weeks........but I would definitely say to get down to like 14-15% bodyfat before that. With that low of a dose, you can see how the juice will affect your body, without a chance for much sides. I have to warn you though, sustanon makes your legs (or whatever injection site) pretty sore, unless you do squats right after you inject, and massage the hell out of it for the next 2 or 3 days.

 

[rvd_brock]

Oh, and what is your diet like.................like protein/carbs/total calories, etc. May help a bit if you can post a pic up too.

 

[animal69112]

RVD_BROCK
thanks for your reply
i do not want to take sustanon because its likely i will gain 20lbs on it...and i do not want to gain any pounds right now...unless i'm losing fat at the same time...with the end result being i lose more fat than i gain muscle...which would result in a drop in total pounds of body weight.
as far as my diet i weight 227lbs....i eat 4-6 times a day getting at least 40grams of protein per meal 240grams of protein a day if i eat 4 meals...its a busy day and i drink two protein shakes...i eat ALOT OF BOILED EGG WHITE, LOTS OF TUNA, TURKEY, and CHICKEN . i dont think you understood what kind of results i'm looking for when you postedt the sust cycle...main concern body fat...than muscle...if you have any other suggestions i would appreciate it

 

[smb_69]

animal - I have been natural for most of my life - You can get down to 10% BF without any gear - just do a standard, low card diet for 15-20 wks with mild cardio and you will be good to go.

The gear itself will not do shit for you - it is ALL diet. However, you are stuborn - do Primo/Winny combo - but no more then 50mg of Winny EOD, or you will loose your hair -

 

[DaddyX]

I began researching about a yr ago

do another year and get back to us

 

[Anodyne]

If you are starting out you might want to consider a deca only cycle as this will cause minimal bloat and give you hard muscle at the conclusion. Only problem might be good ole deca dick!

 

[Little Rage]

Originally posted by DaddyX
do another year and get back to us

my thoughts exactly.

 

[MikeyG]

RVD_BROCK
thanks for your reply
i do not want to take sustanon because its likely i will gain 20lbs on it...

Bullshit! You can cut with sustanon, or bulk with sustanon, it is truely all in the diet! I will not ever do a cycle, cut nor bulk without a testosterone base. GET LEAN FIRST naturally, If you are at 19% so you say...

227lbs w/ 19% bodyfat = 184lbs Lean body mass...

I say that's nothing!! You need to either need to add some serioius LBM, because the more muscle mass you have, the easier you are able to drop the fat.

But then again, if your diet is "perfect" I should say no more.

 

[animal69112]

for little rage and daddyx

im done doing research...i've been doing it...IVE DECIDED TO JUICE WHETHER YOU HOMOS LIKE IT OR NOT if you dont have something that pertains to which cycle i should use or a reccomendation of a different cycle then get off my thread, you fags were in the same spot as me once apon a time...I"M GOING TO JUICE...wanna help with my cycle? if yes great...i'm open to suggestions. IF NO THEN DONT SAY ANTHING AND LEAVE YOUR WAISTING PAGE ROOM AND MAKING IT TAKE AN EXTRA SECOND OF MY TIME AND EVERYONE ELSES TO SEE IT LOAD UP just to read BS
thank you
have a nice day

 

[animal69112]

quote "Bullshit! You can cut with sustanon, or bulk with sustanon, it is truely all in the diet! I will not ever do a cycle, cut nor bulk without a testosterone base. GET LEAN FIRST naturally, If you are at 19% so you say... "

why would i cut with sust...when there are much better choices?

 

[DaddyX]

for little rage and daddyx

im done doing research...i've been doing it...IVE DECIDED TO JUICE WHETHER YOU HOMOS LIKE IT OR NOT if you dont have something that pertains to which cycle i should use or a reccomendation of a different cycle then get off my thread, you fags were in the same spot as me once apon a time...I"M GOING TO JUICE...wanna help with my cycle? if yes great...i'm open to suggestions. IF NO THEN DONT SAY ANTHING AND LEAVE YOUR WAISTING PAGE ROOM AND MAKING IT TAKE AN EXTRA SECOND OF MY TIME AND EVERYONE ELSES TO SEE IT LOAD UP just to read BS
thank you
have a nice day

well lets see, my first cycle i decided to go with a basic test/dbol. now i know your trying to lean up but your suggestion t3, 100mg of winny and so on including maybe fina. not trying to be an ass but your research has obviously been terrible. with your questions you show how you have learned nothing. really i could care less if you hurt yourself, which can easily be done with the misuse of t3......or anything really. and you do not necassarily gain weight off of test. if your source is the one giving you thses tips he's an idiot.

 

[smb_69]

animal - man, I help out where I can the young ones like you - listen to these guys, or you will end up like a good friend of mine who took first in his class in state teens, but ended up with the gyno before he turned 21.

so.. clean up your carbs.. take a little deca or primo and THINK big -

end of the story.

 

[DaddyX]

quote "Bullshit! You can cut with sustanon, or bulk with sustanon, it is truely all in the diet! I will not ever do a cycle, cut nor bulk without a testosterone base. GET LEAN FIRST naturally, If you are at 19% so you say... "

why would i cut with sust...when there are much better choices?

o and your in michigan......geez your giving us michiganders a bad rep with your dumbass

 

[Anakin]

animal, your attitude sucks man, i don't think anyone will want to help you like that.
anyway, what people are saying is that as long as you're in a calorie deficit, you will lose fat, regardless of what steroid you use. steroids generally don't make you lose fat, they just make you gain/maintain muscle more easily. anyway, if you can find legit primo it's supposed to be one of the best in a calorie deficit situation because of its outstanding ability for nitrogen retention. you WILL use gear because you're determined to, but keep away from the t3 cause once you fuck up with your thyroid, it doesn't rebound as easily as the HPTA.
good luck.

 

[Shallow Hal]

quote "Bullshit! You can cut with sustanon, or bulk with sustanon, it is truely all in the diet! I will not ever do a cycle, cut nor bulk without a testosterone base. GET LEAN FIRST naturally, If you are at 19% so you say... "

why would i cut with sust...when there are much better choices?

The point most are trying to make is that losing fat has little to do with what gear you take. If you want to lose bodyfat but maintain your LBM and strength take 100mg of test prop EOD and make sure your diet is good.

 

[genarr4]

what do you mean too achy?
why shouldnt i use fina and winny? if you tell me what to do...at least tell me why thanks

Winstrol is tough on the tendons, at 50mgs/ED I get heavy joint pain after only 5 weeks. This won't happen to everyone, but do not start out using 100mgs/ED.

DO NOT use T3. This drug should only be used by intermediate to experienced bbers. Use it wrong and you will end up fatter.

I was going to go deeper then I read your "Homo" and "fag" comments so I'm done. If you want serious people to reply to your threads you have to act like an adult.

 

[thx9000]

for little rage and daddyx

im done doing research...i've been doing it...IVE DECIDED TO JUICE WHETHER YOU HOMOS LIKE IT OR NOT if you dont have something that pertains to which cycle i should use or a reccomendation of a different cycle then get off my thread, you fags were in the same spot as me once apon a time...I"M GOING TO JUICE...wanna help with my cycle? if yes great...i'm open to suggestions. IF NO THEN DONT SAY ANTHING AND LEAVE YOUR WAISTING PAGE ROOM AND MAKING IT TAKE AN EXTRA SECOND OF MY TIME AND EVERYONE ELSES TO SEE IT LOAD UP just to read BS
thank you
have a nice day

Listen kid...you got 28 replies so far thats pretty good for someone who posts up cycles that look like they are from a source that is at least passively interested in seeing your dumb ass dead or at least in the hospital.

Yes we have all been where you are, and you know what? We've cut from 20% bf to 15% to 12% to 10% then to 7% without winny, tren or clen. How? Proper diet, cardio, and discipline. People, even me, aren't trying to give you shit just for the fun of it...you are going at this for all the wrong reasons and at the wrong stage relative to your experience and abilities. Sorry, that's just how it is.

Ask about your diet. Maybe it really isn't perfect? We will all gladly help, cause we have been there and we have all done it wrong before. Ask about your training routine, again we've been through that shit too. Then ask about a cycle even if it's only 6mo down the road but with you having a better understanding or you own body, training and reasonable goals (ie: goals that include cutting and mass on a first cycle? BS!). Even though I think 6mo from now is still too soon for you, you will garner a lot more respect from the members here if you have at least commited to learning the things that appear so lacking from your previous posts on this tread.

 

[DaddyX]

Listen kid...you got 28 replies so far thats pretty good for someone who posts up cycles that look like they are from a source that is at least passively interested in seeing your dumb ass dead or at least in the hospital.

Yes we have all been where you are, and you know what? We've cut from 20% bf to 15% to 12% to 10% then to 7% without winny, tren or clen. How? Proper diet, cardio, and discipline. People, even me, aren't trying to give you shit just for the fun of it...you are going at this for all the wrong reasons and at the wrong stage relative to your experience and abilities. Sorry, that's just how it is.

Ask about your diet. Maybe it really isn't perfect? We will all gladly help, cause we have been there and we have all done it wrong before. Ask about your training routine, again we've been through that shit too. Then ask about a cycle even if it's only 6mo down the road but with you having a better understanding or you own body, training and reasonable goals (ie: goals that include cutting and mass on a first cycle? BS!). Even though I think 6mo from now is still too soon for you, you will garner a lot more respect from the members here if you have at least commited to learning the things that appear so lacking from your previous posts on this tread.

karma for you

 

[Zyglamail]

for little rage and daddyx

im done doing research...i've been doing it...IVE DECIDED TO JUICE WHETHER YOU HOMOS LIKE IT OR NOT if you dont have something that pertains to which cycle i should use or a reccomendation of a different cycle then get off my thread, you fags were in the same spot as me once apon a time...I"M GOING TO JUICE...wanna help with my cycle? if yes great...i'm open to suggestions. IF NO THEN DONT SAY ANTHING AND LEAVE YOUR WAISTING PAGE ROOM AND MAKING IT TAKE AN EXTRA SECOND OF MY TIME AND EVERYONE ELSES TO SEE IT LOAD UP just to read BS
thank you
have a nice day

First off you say you have been researching for a year yet dont have the faintest idea about any of this. Doesnt sound like your research methodologies have been very sound. Saying your are done researching is the reason the AAS community has such a bad rep. research is NEVER done and if you feel the couple hours you put into over the last year is enough, your in for a rough road ahead. Wish you the best.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Wow. It sounds to me like your source is trying to make a fast buck. You do not need clen, winstrol, t3 or tren at this point. YOUr goal if you are 18% bodyfat, should be to loose fat rapidly while preserving muscle. Clearly your diet is NOT flawless. Go to the diet forum and research diets. You sound like you have some insulin sensitivity problems, based up your history and previous bodyfat, so I recomend a CKD. Run a test only cycle for now. 400-500 mg of test enathate a week, for 10 weeks should be enough to let you drop alot of bodyfat while maintaining all of your lbm, and perhaps even gains some muscle along the way. If you are worried about bloat, letrozole has become rather inexpensive. The test enathate route is your most cost effective, and productive option. Winstrol, clen t3 is going to cost you alot more money. You will lose muscle on this stack, and will probably experience some side effects you may not be ready to deal with.

Ingore the guy saying sust causes leg pain. Sust is just testosterone, and to my knowledge, in most individuals testosterone does not cause leg pain.

 

[rsd01]

Your best bet is to get down to 10-12% bodyfat and then go on a cycle. Otherwise your first cycle will be a complete waste because you won't maximize your muscle gain due to the calorie restrictions. Why on earth would you want your first cycle to be a cutting cycle? Drop the bodyfat first and then go on a good muscle building cycle where you have some room to play with your calories. You'll gain much more muscle whuile still being able to maintain leanness.

 

[animal69112]

well i wanna let you guys know i'm going to start a fina/winny cycle

fina at 60mg EOD and winny at 50mg ED

cycle will last 40 days on the fina and 8 weeks on the winny...which means i will be on a winny only cycle at the end of the whole cycle...thanks for all your advice guys.
incase you were curious i plan to up my protein to 300grams and have my carbs at 120grams and fat at 45-50g if any of you guys have any suggestions for the cycle/diet let them rip

 

[DaddyX]

well i wanna let you guys know i'm going to start a fina/winny cycle

fina at 60mg EOD and winny at 50mg ED

cycle will last 40 days on the fina and 8 weeks on the winny...which means i will be on a winny only cycle at the end of the whole cycle...thanks for all your advice guys.
incase you were curious i plan to up my protein to 300grams and have my carbs at 120grams and fat at 45-50g if any of you guys have any suggestions for the cycle/diet let them rip

are you injecting the fina ?

 

[animal69112]

yes

 

[thx9000]

well i wanna let you guys know i'm going to start a fina/winny cycle

fina at 60mg EOD and winny at 50mg ED

cycle will last 40 days on the fina and 8 weeks on the winny...which means i will be on a winny only cycle at the end of the whole cycle...thanks for all your advice guys.
incase you were curious i plan to up my protein to 300grams and have my carbs at 120grams and fat at 45-50g if any of you guys have any suggestions for the cycle/diet let them rip

Excellent and good luck!

Your total calories are below maintenance for you size. If your goals are fat loss, then you also have too high a ratio of carbs to fat to protein. Well, at least a sub-optimal ratio. You aren't going to gain lean mass on this cycle so you might as well cut the carbs as low as you can go keeping the protein at 60 to 70% of total calories and fats a good portion of the remainder while carbs should be as limited as you can handle.

You are running the winny a bit too long IMO. If you insist on going for an 8wk cutting cycle (why I dont know), you might as well take the tren out longer instead of the winny. BTW, tren really is a terrible choice for a beginner, but that is only my opinion. Tren can severely suppress your natural test production. How are you going to recover from this cycle? Have you gotten that far in your planning yet?

 

[DaddyX]

yes

hey bro goodluck with your cycle, hope all goes well for you

 

[animal69112]

i plan on taking clomid post cycle recovery

 

[DJ_UFO]

Man...good luck with your cycle...with a good and strict diet and proper training your body will be a fat burner machine. Also maybe you will not see a very fast change in weight numbers...because remember you will be replacing fat by lean muscle. So the numbers will work slowly but the mirror will let you know the truth.

 

[variation]

well i wanna let you guys know i'm going to start a fina/winny cycle

fina at 60mg EOD and winny at 50mg ED

cycle will last 40 days on the fina and 8 weeks on the winny...which means i will be on a winny only cycle at the end of the whole cycle...thanks for all your advice guys.
incase you were curious i plan to up my protein to 300grams and have my carbs at 120grams and fat at 45-50g if any of you guys have any suggestions for the cycle/diet let them rip

I think your fina dose is too low, I'd put it to atleast 100mg eod..

and...

I'd have pretty much all those carbs in post workout shake and post workout meal...

good luck.

 

[animal69112]

OKAY YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HATE ME
lol...but someone has changed my mind...you know who you are
i'm not going to try anabolics yet. he talked me out of that. i'm going to drop my body fat to at least 13-14%. i am going to do a clen only cycle to assist though. but i wont do anabolics till the fat is off, this should be much more safe than a tren/winny cycle. see guys i'm not as stubborn as you thought...just needed to have everything explained right.

Also i'm going to change my diet to:
400 grams of protein
80 grams of fat
0 carbs for 2 weeks and then 60 carbs a day post work out
any advice??? or suggestions???

 

[thx9000]

OKAY YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HATE ME
lol...but someone has changed my mind...you know who you are
i'm not going to try anabolics yet. he talked me out of that. i'm going to drop my body fat to at least 13-14%. i am going to do a clen only cycle to assist though. but i wont do anabolics till the fat is off, this should be much more safe than a tren/winny cycle. see guys i'm not as stubborn as you thought...just needed to have everything explained right.

Also i'm going to change my diet to:
400 grams of protein
80 grams of fat
0 carbs for 2 weeks and then 60 carbs a day post work out
any advice??? or suggestions???

You CAN do this without clen.....

If you cannot force that much protein down, it's tough at first, then work up from 1g/lb body weigh to at least 1.5g/lb that will get you to about 330g a day. The rest of calories should come from animal fats and eventually sources of good healthy fats (like small servings of nuts) once you start adding a little more carbs back in.

As you shift from high carb to low/no carb diet you are going to notice a dramatic drop in water weight and, saddly, loss of muscle fullness and strength. This should stop (stregth decreases) in a couple of weeks. If it doesn't you need are not eating enough.

You will be at roughly 10cals/lb of body weight...For me that is very low, any lower and I am way too tired. I have done similar diet at about to 12cals per pound of body weight and still lost fat fast. Once I get above 14 or 15cals/lb of body weight I start sustaining or only slowly loosing fat and thats even on a keto diet. Others probably have experiences to share, we dont all have the same body type. Good luck.

 

[animal69112]

thanks for the advice bro

i get about 40 grams of protein per meal...6 meals a day = 240grams of protien if i add 4 more protein shakes at 40grams each that will be 160....a total of 400. i dont think it should be too hard.
and im deciding on taking the clen because it will speed everything up
thanks guys
sorry for being a pain in the ass