Please help a noob - How often to lift?

[Hellbore]

I have actually lifted before but I don't have tons of experience.

There is a question that my friends and I have debated over the years and I don't know who is right. Here it is. 2 things (and remember we are NATURAL lifters, none of us is using gear or anything but protein):

He says a muscle group only needs 48 hours of time to recover. He says it's OK to lift the same muscle group 3 times a week. I always thought it worked better for me to do 1 or 2 times a week. Even if I do 2 times I only like going hard and heavy 1 time a week. Who's right? Does your body need that much time or is it OK to bench every other day?

The second thing is the issue of getting sore. When I lift hard and heavy, I get really sore, not the next day but 2 days after. Then I stay sore until it has been 4 or 5 days. I have been lifting for about 6 weeks now and I still get sore. I always push myself. About 7 years ago I lifted on a regular basis for a year and saw great gains, but I seem to remember getting sore on a regular basis.

However, he says after 2 weeks or so of lifting, your body gets used to it and you don't get sore any more. Is this true? Why am I not used to it, how come I get sore? Is it possible that he's not getting sore simply because he's not pushing himself hard enough? Or is it that I am doing something wrong and that's why I still get sore?

Does soreness tell us anything? I thought it meant your body was rebuilding, getting stronger. Is is really possible to shred the muscle and rebuild it bigger, without getting sore in the process?

 

[JL_204]

first of all DOMS (soreness) has nothing to do with getting stronger or bigger, it simply means that your muscles arent conditioned for the stress being placed on them.

As for how often to train....read this:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4776914&postcount=386

Read some links from this thread for alot of good info:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

 

[Hellbore]

OK, well how do I condition my muscles so they don't stay sore like that?

 

[HunterUk]

I found training full body 3x per week on mon weds and fri using monday as a medium weights day, weds as light and fri as heavy/max effort pretty much cut out all DOMS... I'm almost suprised now when I get sore although I'm not doing much isolation work and when I throw some of that in I still get the odd ache.

 

[Micker]

There is no way in hell you can train a muscle hard 3x a week and not overtrain. A muscle should be trained HARD no more then once per week. Now don't listen to the people who are on more drugs then Jimi Hendrix, like the ones you see in the magazines.

It pisses me off when they show the split routine, 6 day a week workouts that these pro freaks do. New people to the sport of bodybuilding/powerlifting read these routines and think they are the way to go. Without drugs, your body just can't rebuild fast enough. Overtraining is VERY real and it can wreck havoc on your body AND mind. Depression, fatigue, weakness, trouble sleeping etc.. Don't go that route. I suffered from overtraining and I really thought I was sick. Once I cut way back working out, everything got much better and my gains started coming back.

If you are new to lifting, I would say 3x a week, for no more then 1 1/2 hour, working different muscles each time is the most you should do. You can do Biceps/Triceps day one, Chest/Shoulders day two, Legs/Back day 3 for instance. Take a day off in between each workout, and 2 days after the 3rd. You can tell if you can do more or less then that, but you will need to fine tune it by the way you feel. If start feeling tired and your gains start DEcreasing, take more time in between workouts. I personally take 2 days in between my workouts and have made better gains then with 1 day.

I also am WAY against doing a full body workout each time. There is no way you can workout everybody part properly without running out of gas and training too long. Studies have shown that after 50 mins into a workout, your test production hits a peak and starts to fall dramatically after that. So one hour or a bit more is all you should do per workout.

The BIG KEY to success is 4 things.
1. Consistancy- Stick with it, don't look at lifting like another hobby, look at it like a job.

2. Intensity- Ever see a guy who works out all the time, but still looks like a stick or just the oppisite?? They train with low intensity for too long. They don't challenge themselves with heavier weights. They quit a set when they reach some number like 10, when they still have 2 good reps they could churn out. They sit in the gym doing a full body workout for 2+ hours. You have seen these people, and they always wonder why they don't get bigger.

3., Rest- Remember you don't build muscle while working out, you build it in the rest period between workouts. The pump you get working out makes you feel like you are building muscle right then and there, but thats just blood filling up your muscles. Your body needs a break to repair itself.

4.Proper Nutrition- This is the brick used to build the muscles. You can't build a house without enough bricks and you can't build muscle without enough protein/carbs/fat. You would be suprised how little protein some people take in who workout. Make eating a priority, its just as important as your workout.

 

[thelion2005]

I have actually lifted before but I don't have tons of experience.

There is a question that my friends and I have debated over the years and I don't know who is right. Here it is. 2 things (and remember we are NATURAL lifters, none of us is using gear or anything but protein):

He says a muscle group only needs 48 hours of time to recover. He says it's OK to lift the same muscle group 3 times a week. I always thought it worked better for me to do 1 or 2 times a week. Even if I do 2 times I only like going hard and heavy 1 time a week. Who's right? Does your body need that much time or is it OK to bench every other day?

The second thing is the issue of getting sore. When I lift hard and heavy, I get really sore, not the next day but 2 days after. Then I stay sore until it has been 4 or 5 days. I have been lifting for about 6 weeks now and I still get sore. I always push myself. About 7 years ago I lifted on a regular basis for a year and saw great gains, but I seem to remember getting sore on a regular basis.

However, he says after 2 weeks or so of lifting, your body gets used to it and you don't get sore any more. Is this true? Why am I not used to it, how come I get sore? Is it possible that he's not getting sore simply because he's not pushing himself hard enough? Or is it that I am doing something wrong and that's why I still get sore?

Does soreness tell us anything? I thought it meant your body was rebuilding, getting stronger. Is is really possible to shred the muscle and rebuild it bigger, without getting sore in the process?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418597

Take a look here for even more opinions.

 

[Guinness5.0]

There is no way in hell you can train a muscle hard 3x a week and not overtrain. A muscle should be trained HARD no more then once per week.

Just plain wrong bud. As long as the other variables are in proper proportion (intensity and volume) there's no reason why not to hit a muscle 3x week. I've been hitting my legs hard 4x/week and seeing gains.

I also am WAY against doing a full body workout each time. There is no way you can workout everybody part properly without running out of gas and training too long. Studies have shown that after 50 mins into a workout, your test production hits a peak and starts to fall dramatically after that. So one hour or a bit more is all you should do per workout.

what does test production have to do with it? Sure it drops during the workout but it bounces right back w/ proper PWO offerings (simple carbs).

 

[Micker]

Just plain wrong bud. As long as the other variables are in proper proportion (intensity and volume) there's no reason why not to hit a muscle 3x week.

Ok, let me rephrase that. No way you won't overtrain a muscle if you work it hard 3 times a week, WITHOUT AAS. Do you use any gear?? When I train legs hard, 2 days later I am still walking funny, no way I could train them that soon. Some people are genetic freaks so to say and can recoup much faster then your avg. person. This guy is new to lifting and he will be hurting for some time to come just training a muscle once a week.

 

[Guinness5.0]

No, no gear here. First off I should state that my response to your post sounded a bit harsh. Also, I left out a major component of why it's ok to train hard and frequent w/out overtraining: it's called the fitness/fatigue theory. I HIGHLY recommend you read the article entitled "How to benefit from planned overtraining." You can find it at this site:

www.higher-faster-sports.com

Gold in that article, I'm tellin' you.

BTW I'm no genetic freak. Far from it. At 250 pounds I'm only dl'ing in the mid 400's.

 

[1_more_rep]

if i was you i'd check out the "5x5 single factor routine" - go back and read all the sticky's on the 5x5 routine...i just started lifting seriously a LITTLE over a month ago...and on the routine my stats have increased from old max: 2 reps on bench at 65 lbs (wow...weaksauce) to 5 reps on bench at 105 lbs (i'm not magnus samuelson or anything but it's a big improvement) and i've increased squats from max at 5 reps at 95 lbs to new max at 195 lbs for 3 reps (could do 185 for 5 reps) by this next week will do 195 for 5 reps - i think i have increased so much on my legs because my legs have always been nice and long and thick...but nonetheless the routine has helped me increase weight by alot by increasing every week (sometimes 2x a week if i felt super strong thanks to new diet/routine) - for these kinds of improvements you need to change everything though...you need to fix your entire diet and be very strict with your routine...write down everything...your starting weights...your max..# of reps...etc...

can't go wrong - welcome to the site bro - goodluck with whatever routine you decide to take