Planning my first injectable cycle- help a bro out!

[mrcashcream]

Ok bro's, I'm currently planning my first ever injectable cycle this coming fall...

Goal: Lean quality strength and dense muscle gains. I want to avoid water retention and maintain a high quality look that is near keepable after PCT.

Currently I have been studying Masteron and Equipoise. The reason- high quality gains which are keepable with little to no water retention. Anyone have any advice with the two and what they've stacked/how much they've used and what results they've seen short & long term?

Since Var is very expensive, I am considering stacking one of the above with possibly Winny, unless someone else has a better suggestion.

Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks in advance
-Red

 

[aceofspades]

Being your first injectable cycle, it might be a good idea to keep it simple like:

500mg of Test e (Week 1-12)
30 mg of dbol (Week 1-4)

You can avoid the water retention by taking a AI.

 

[columbia58]

I Say Tren And Test. Masteron Would Be A Waste Of Your Money. Equipoise Is Great, You Could Stack It With Tren. Look Bro, Tren Is The Real Shit, Get Some 200mg/cc, Use 300mg A Week, Get Big, Get Strong. You Wont Be Sorry.

 

[soflaguy]

I disagree on Test/Tren as a first. I'd recommend Test E 500mg/EQ 500mg for 10-12 weeks. Maybe even throw in a little Winny for 4 weeks at the end.

 

[solidspine]

First cycle,


Easy,

And skip all the 17aa, and orals, you have plenty of time to fry your organs later.


First let’s assume you are ready physically, mentally and emotionally,
Lets assume you know about training, diet, rest, workouts, sterile technique, etc…..


Enough said


Run 10 weeks with Anti-E’s and PCT

Have all your syringes, needles, gear, pct, in hand before you start, read that line again.



Test E 500mg ea week week 1-10
Deca 500mg ea week week 1-10


PCT


OVER


Nothing will match or beat the KEEPABLE gains, inexpensive and safe.

 

[solidspine]

I did literally ½ that much gear on my first cycle.

for 8 weeks max.

 

[taoiron]

I personally use EQ and Masteron….. That being said, for your first cycle I would stick with Test.. E, Cyp, Prop… You decide!!

I stack either EQ or Masteron with Test (and others) every cycle.. Low body fat is the key to get the best from either of them. I rarely go over 10% and more often than not hover around 6-7%.

Run a 10-14 week cycle of Test E at 500mg per week.. Jump Start it with prop @ 300mg per week for the first 4 weeks. Run Adex @ .5mg every day and if that does not keep you dry bump to 1mg.

My 2ml,

Taoiron

 

[taoiron]

PS…. Welcome to the Dark Side….. Enjoy the ride!

 

[black sheep]

For your goals - I would run Primo at 800mg/wk and Proviron at 50mg ed for 12 weeks.

 

[markmark]

my first cycle was: test-300 1-12wk deca-250 1-10wk pct for 4weeks was very good for me. must train hard, rest alot and eat high protien meals

 

[big greg 82]

i would do either


test/eq

test enth


for a first cycle.....

 

[SwolK]

first cycle shoud be

test E or C for 10 weeks at 500mg(or less)

AI
PCT

 

[nomad05]

Test E only (500mg /week)

or

Test E (500mg/week) + Deca (400mg/week)

you could replace the Deca w/EQ but I am not much an an EQ fan too mild. Save your $$ & stay away from masteron, primo, etc. for now

my .02

 

[drols of steel]

Dont think you'll get 2 much from Masteron unless your BF% is extremely low, stick with the EQ, if those are your only choices bro

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

WK 1-10.....PROP
WK 1-16.....EQ
***PCT***
SIMPLE - EFFECTIVE - CHEAP - LOWER SIDES

AI all the way including PCT (AIFM or A-DEX) even though these two drugs are not the worst culprets.

DOSES & PCT i will leave to you, as these are 2 areas that are highly up to personal preferrence.
...but i will suggest that you NOT take the doses of much more experienced AAS users ...start low ...increase gradually until you find YOUR particular "happy medium".

...good luck!

oh yeah masteron, at this point, IMO would be a waste.

 

[MTS]

You never said that you did an oral cycle before but my guess is that you have?
Test and tren are a very nice way to achieve your goals but if this is your first cycle i recommend doing:
Test only cycle or Test and deca cycle
the reason im not recommending EQ is because i dont have any experience with it
for a Test E only cycle i would do 300mg every 3 days
and for test and deca i would do what solidspine said
the best way to keep water off is using letro
but i believe the healthiest way is doing letro for half the cycle and nolva the second half

 

[mrcashcream]

The plan has been devised by myself and my good workout bro who are both new to injecting (yes, already researched this subject extensively), to go with a Deca/Test E stack and followup with the typical PCT protocall. The feedback is well appreciated, and after extensive research (gotta love having the net at wrk ey?), we've arrived with this possible concept for the fall:

Wk 1-15: Test E- 500/wk
Wk 1-10: Deca- 300/wk
Wk 1-15: AIFM
Wk 18: Clomid- 300/wk
Wk 19: Clomid- 200/wk
Wk 20: Clomid- 100/wk
Wk 18-20: HCG- ?/wk

Currently the HCG is not thought out cus it's still up in the air. Currently looking for suggestions on the above cycle plan, and any followup info, or anything and HCG. Thanks for the input bro's.

 

[SwolK]

The plan has been devised by myself and my good workout bro who are both new to injecting (yes, already researched this subject extensively), to go with a Deca/Test E stack and followup with the typical PCT protocall. The feedback is well appreciated, and after extensive research (gotta love having the net at wrk ey?), we've arrived with this possible concept for the fall:

Wk 1-15: Test E- 500/wk
Wk 1-10: Deca- 300/wk
Wk 1-15: AIFM
Wk 18: Clomid- 300/wk
Wk 19: Clomid- 200/wk
Wk 20: Clomid- 100/wk
Wk 18-20: HCG- ?/wk

Currently the HCG is not thought out cus it's still up in the air. Currently looking for suggestions on the above cycle plan, and any followup info, or anything and HCG. Thanks for the input bro's.

new cycle looks good bro.

im not use about the HCG either. There seems to be some conflicting opinions on wether to start it in week 15 and finish it before the clomid or to start it with the clomid.

bump

 

[njmuscleguy]

I Say Tren And Test. Masteron Would Be A Waste Of Your Money. Equipoise Is Great, You Could Stack It With Tren. Look Bro, Tren Is The Real Shit, Get Some 200mg/cc, Use 300mg A Week, Get Big, Get Strong. You Wont Be Sorry.

Dude, that's awful advice.... tren for a first cycle?


Stick with test only for a first cycle, along with an AI....you'll definitely grow...and you'll see how your body responds.... I did deca & test for my first cycle (first three actually).... but I regret not doing a test-only cycle my first time

 

[njmuscleguy]

The plan has been devised by myself and my good workout bro who are both new to injecting (yes, already researched this subject extensively), to go with a Deca/Test E stack and followup with the typical PCT protocall. The feedback is well appreciated, and after extensive research (gotta love having the net at wrk ey?), we've arrived with this possible concept for the fall:

Wk 1-15: Test E- 500/wk
Wk 1-10: Deca- 300/wk
Wk 1-15: AIFM
Wk 18: Clomid- 300/wk
Wk 19: Clomid- 200/wk
Wk 20: Clomid- 100/wk
Wk 18-20: HCG- ?/wk

Currently the HCG is not thought out cus it's still up in the air. Currently looking for suggestions on the above cycle plan, and any followup info, or anything and HCG. Thanks for the input bro's.

If you're set in using deca and test, do not run it that long.... deca for 8 weeks tops (deca can be very suppressive) ....test for 10 weeks... AIFM throughout....wait about a week after your last test shot and start HCG / Clomid (and continue with AIFM)... run HCG at 500iu ED or EOD for up to 21 days. In my experience, frontloading with clomid can give you some pretty nasty sides.... start off with the maintenance dose of 50mg and see how that works for you...worst case is that you'll have to run it a bit longer until you're recovered.
Good luck!

 

[SwolK]

If you're set in using deca and test, do not run it that long.... deca for 8 weeks tops (deca can be very suppressive) ....test for 10 weeks... AIFM throughout....wait about a week after your last test shot and start HCG / Clomid (and continue with AIFM)... run HCG at 500iu ED or EOD for up to 21 days. In my experience, frontloading with clomid can give you some pretty nasty sides.... start off with the maintenance dose of 50mg and see how that works for you...worst case is that you'll have to run it a bit longer until you're recovered.
Good luck!

so you are saying to start clomid and hcg 7 days after last Test E shot?

 

[SwolK]

bump for nj

 

[mrcashcream]

so you are saying to start clomid and hcg 7 days after last Test E shot?

I'd assume yes, based on the half life of Test. And thanks for all the input bro's!

 

[njmuscleguy]

so you are saying to start clomid and hcg 7 days after last Test E shot?

Yes... but don't hold me to that as bible... there are so many varying opinions on this, and I'm not sure yet which is the most successful way of doing it... but given that the active life of test enth is about 15 days (half-life being about 7 days), one of the theories is if you start PCT too soon, your body will still have un-naturally elevated hormone levels and your HPTA will remain shut down until the levels reduce closer to normal or sub-normal... also, you probably don't want to wait until the levels drop to normal or sub-normal because that might increase your chances of crashing.... so it seems that if you started PCT no later than the half-life time of the longest running ester, you should be in good shape. So 5-7 days is what I'd wait before starting PCT... again, everyone is different...and there is no one PCT regimen that is correct for everyone

 

[SwolK]

Yes... but don't hold me to that as bible... there are so many varying opinions on this, and I'm not sure yet which is the most successful way of doing it... but given that the active life of test enth is about 15 days (half-life being about 7 days), one of the theories is if you start PCT too soon, your body will still have un-naturally elevated hormone levels and your HPTA will remain shut down until the levels reduce closer to normal or sub-normal... also, you probably don't want to wait until the levels drop to normal or sub-normal because that might increase your chances of crashing.... so it seems that if you started PCT no later than the half-life time of the longest running ester, you should be in good shape. So 5-7 days is what I'd wait before starting PCT... again, everyone is different...and there is no one PCT regimen that is correct for everyone

i think you are right. it seems like everyone responds differently to the same thing. I think it may have been Bluntwump in a different thread, but he said that HCG should be run after your last injection but before Clomid is started.

any opinion on this?

my last cycle was test prop and winny. 3 days after last test prop shot and one day after last winny i started HCG and Clomid. I do not feel that i recovered from it as i should have. It was a light cylcle. So i guess im asking, should i have been using HCG during my last week of Prop and winny, then have it finished before the Clomid?

 

[njmuscleguy]

i think you are right. it seems like everyone responds differently to the same thing. I think it may have been Bluntwump in a different thread, but he said that HCG should be run after your last injection but before Clomid is started.

any opinion on this?

my last cycle was test prop and winny. 3 days after last test prop shot and one day after last winny i started HCG and Clomid. I do not feel that i recovered from it as i should have. It was a light cylcle. So i guess im asking, should i have been using HCG during my last week of Prop and winny, then have it finished before the Clomid?

I just got reading another similar thread suggesting the same thing.... actually, there were several suggestions.... one is to run HCG throughout the cycle and the other is to run it during the last 10-14 days of the cycle and finish within a week of last shot then start nolva or clomid therapy. To be honest, I haven't tried either, but I'm curious to try using HCG during the last 2 weeks of the cycle then later start clomid (along with AIFM or Aromasin)... I guess it couldn't hurt, since nothing else has worked very well so far.

 

[black sheep]

I just got reading another similar thread suggesting the same thing.... actually, there were several suggestions.... one is to run HCG throughout the cycle and the other is to run it during the last 10-14 days of the cycle and finish within a week of last shot then start nolva or clomid therapy. To be honest, I haven't tried either, but I'm curious to try using HCG during the last 2 weeks of the cycle then later start clomid (along with AIFM or Aromasin)... I guess it couldn't hurt, since nothing else has worked very well so far.

WHen using long esters I like to use HCG from the same day of the last injection for 10 days. I start the nolva and clomid the day after the last HCG shot - when most of the AAS is cleared out.

 

[aceofspades]

I just got reading another similar thread suggesting the same thing.... actually, there were several suggestions.... one is to run HCG throughout the cycle and the other is to run it during the last 10-14 days of the cycle and finish within a week of last shot then start nolva or clomid therapy. To be honest, I haven't tried either, but I'm curious to try using HCG during the last 2 weeks of the cycle then later start clomid (along with AIFM or Aromasin)... I guess it couldn't hurt, since nothing else has worked very well so far.

I run HCG at 250IU through my entire cycle starting at week two and end it before I start doing PCT. It has worked very well for me so far and I have never had my nuts shrink on my cycle. I posted a poll on this topic recently:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505494

 

[SwolK]

WHen using long esters I like to use HCG from the same day of the last injection for 10 days. I start the nolva and clomid the day after the last HCG shot - when most of the AAS is cleared out.

thinking I may try that approach the next time around.

next cycle will just be Test Eth at 500mg per week for 10 weeks.
so i guess i will start 10 days of HCG day after last jab, then Clomid day after last HCG jab.

 

[njmuscleguy]

WHen using long esters I like to use HCG from the same day of the last injection for 10 days. I start the nolva and clomid the day after the last HCG shot - when most of the AAS is cleared out.

and you always recover fully this way? what is your daily HCG dosage? what about your nolva / clomid dosage?

 

[SwolK]

and you always recover fully this way? what is your daily HCG dosage? what about your nolva / clomid dosage?

bump for blacksheep.

im assuming 500iu per day for 10 days?

 

[njmuscleguy]

I run HCG at 250IU through my entire cycle starting at week two and end it before I start doing PCT. It has worked very well for me so far and I have never had my nuts shrink on my cycle. I posted a poll on this topic recently:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505494

I'm not so much concerned with shrinkage as I am with recovery of natty test levels and libido... and avoiding "crashing"

 

[black sheep]

1000iu ed for 10 days.

1 week of clomid at 100mg ed; then 2 more weeks at 50mg ed
5 weeks of Nolva at 20mg ed (Run 2 weeks past the clomid)
Aromasin at 12.5mg ed thru PCT or Arimidex at .25mg ed - I do this thru the entire cycle until the last day of PCT.

My test levels were over 900 3 weeks after this PCT - That was after a Test/Tren cycle that lasted 12 weeks.

 

[SwolK]

1000iu ed for 10 days.

1 week of clomid at 100mg ed; then 2 more weeks at 50mg ed
5 weeks of Nolva at 20mg ed (Run 2 weeks past the clomid)
Aromasin at 12.5mg ed thru PCT or Arimidex at .25mg ed - I do this thru the entire cycle until the last day of PCT.

My test levels were over 900 3 weeks after this PCT - That was after a Test/Tren cycle that lasted 12 weeks.

damn!
900!

guess i will be trying this next time around.

why 1000iu per day instead of 500iu?

 

[aceofspades]

1000iu ed for 10 days.

1 week of clomid at 100mg ed; then 2 more weeks at 50mg ed
5 weeks of Nolva at 20mg ed (Run 2 weeks past the clomid)
Aromasin at 12.5mg ed thru PCT or Arimidex at .25mg ed - I do this thru the entire cycle until the last day of PCT.

My test levels were over 900 3 weeks after this PCT - That was after a Test/Tren cycle that lasted 12 weeks.

Have you tried AIFM in place of the Armidex or Aromasin? Does it seem to work just as good or better?

 

[black sheep]

damn!
900!

guess i will be trying this next time around.

why 1000iu per day instead of 500iu?

My HCG kits are 10,000 kits

I also recoved well in the past with one 5,000 iu injection followed by 500iu ed for the next 9 days. I think I like the 1,000iu per day method the best.

 

[SwolK]

My HCG kits are 10,000 kits

I also recoved well in the past with one 5,000 iu injection followed by 500iu ed for the next 9 days. I think I like the 1,000iu per day method the best.

good to hear.
thanks

 

[njmuscleguy]

1000iu ed for 10 days.

1 week of clomid at 100mg ed; then 2 more weeks at 50mg ed
5 weeks of Nolva at 20mg ed (Run 2 weeks past the clomid)
Aromasin at 12.5mg ed thru PCT or Arimidex at .25mg ed - I do this thru the entire cycle until the last day of PCT.

My test levels were over 900 3 weeks after this PCT - That was after a Test/Tren cycle that lasted 12 weeks.

mind if I ask your age?

 

[black sheep]

mind if I ask your age?

veintiocho

 

[black sheep]

Have you tried AIFM in place of the Armidex or Aromasin? Does it seem to work just as good or better?

Honestly I have never tried it. I have enough Aromasin powder to last me 10 cycles so I dont think I ever will.

 

[njmuscleguy]

veintiocho

assuming I understand Spanish? *grin*

ok, 28 is still pretty young and I can see how you can achieve natty levels over 900

 

[black sheep]

assuming I understand Spanish? *grin*

ok, 28 is still pretty young and I can see how you can achieve natty levels over 900

Yes I am young... Keep in mind that I have done a number of cycles. I have done 7 or 8 in the last 6 years - with a 2 year break in the middle.

Yes - 900 is great - I am proud of my little black sheep

 

[njmuscleguy]

Yes I am young... Keep in mind that I have done a number of cycles. I have done 7 or 8 in the last 6 years - with a 2 year break in the middle.

Yes - 900 is great - I am proud of my little black sheep

that's great bro... I'm only a few years older than ya, but I often tend to be on the lower end of nat. test levels...that's why I struggle with PCT... I've been resisting having to resort to HRT so that's why I'm trying desperately to find a PCT that works best

 

[black sheep]

this time will really be the test - I was on for 15 weeks - took 5 weeks off and did PCT then got right back on - I am on a long run with high amount of test and tren.

I will do HCG mid cycle this time, and then as I outlined above. I will get labs and let everyone know - but that is still 4 months away.

 

[njmuscleguy]

this time will really be the test - I was on for 15 weeks - took 5 weeks off and did PCT then got right back on - I am on a long run with high amount of test and tren.

I will do HCG mid cycle this time, and then as I outlined above. I will get labs and let everyone know - but that is still 4 months away.

Keep us posted bro!

I just started my current cycle: NPP + Prop + dbol + proviron

Gonna run it for 8 weeks, and I'll try your PCT... let ya know how it goes