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Plan For 1st Cycle...(comments + Suggestions)

TheDarkSideNinja

TheDarkSideNinja

New member
I am finally planning my first cycle and here is what i have for my elite bros to critique:

5"10
170 lbs.
12% BF
21 yrs old
Lifting for 5 yrs...3 serious!

Background: I am a hardgainer who has tried a lot of ways to put on mass especally as far as calories are concerned i eat about 7-8 times a day. I am involved in martial arts, lifting, and sprints+mid distance running!!!

1st cycle overview:

Weeks 1-10 Sustanon250 (Organon) every 4 days

Weeks 1-4 D-bol (pink thai) 20 mgs/ed

Weeks 13-15 Clomid Therapy
Week 13 100 mgs/ed
Week 14 50 mgs/ed
Week 15 50 mgs/ed

Thinking of addind Arimidex at .25 mgs/ed to keep down the water retention!!!

I will keep nolvadex on hand. I'll have enough for a month just in case of gyno symptoms but i doubt any will come if i decide to use Arimidex.

Supplements:

1. ALA (what dosage based on stats???)

2. Tyler's Liver Detox (what dosage based on stats???)

3. Cranberry Extract (what dosage based on stats???)

4. Saw Palmetto (what dosage based on stats???)

5. Glycosimine HCL (4 pills/ed)

6. Multivitamin (2 times a day)

7. Omega-3 Fatty Acid (what dose based on stats???)

Did i miss any supplements that can provide protection for my liver and kidneys? I don't think i will need milk thistle if i use ALA and Tyler's liver detox. Correct?

Here is my training split:
Day 1 --> Chest/Abs/Neck
Day 2 --> Legs/Calves/Forearms
Day 3 --> Rest
Day 4 --> Delts/Abs/Neck
Day 5 --> Bis/Tris/Calves
Day 6 --> Rest
Day 7 --> Back/Forearms
Day 8 --> Repeat

I will try to consume a minimum of 300 grams of protein each day along with moderate carbs and lower fatty foods.

Any help and comments are truly appreciated. Who wants some green stuff??? ;) Thankx
 
Sorry made a mistake...

Weighed myself this morning in the wrestling room and weight was 177 lbs. Also im not sure exactly what my bodyfat is but i can see my 8 pack!!! Im guessing between 10-12% at the highest. Thankx
 
Looks like you did your homework and that is an excellent cycle for your first. As for the supplements it is good to have some liver and kidney detox in there, but your dbol isnt that high. So what i generaly do is double or triple the RDA. Hopefully someone else will have some input for ya. Personaly I dont have any set numbers. You should be fine with the tyler ad the ALA.

I take it that you want to put on mass, since you can see an 8 pack(bastard) I would say you are under 10. so I realy dont think you have to keep your diet to much in check. I would sort of go with the See Food diet. If all you want is mass eat what ever you see for 10 weeks.

If you still want to stay "lean" I would eat everything in site for the first 4 weeks of dbol. If you notice that you are getting to "fat"four your taste that is when i would put the diet back into check. Personaly I let my body have all the food it wants the first 3-5 weeks of a cycle. then I start watching the carbs so I can shed some fat and help chisel out a bit more. Once again this is my own opinion, most people like to bulk and cut for 2 different cycles. I have done this many times and I know my body and this is what works for me.

Arim. will help you keep the bloat down, but watch your sodium and i dont think you will have too much with this cycle the test isn't too high.

I think you will be very pleased with this cycle. you seem like you are dedicated and know what you are doing. The diet, training, and cycle all are in check. Have fun with your first cycle, it was the most amazing thing that i ever did. keep us posted
 
Thanks...

Does anyone think there would be that much of a difference if i decided to use 30mgs/ed of d-bol instead of 20mgs/ed???

Also i am looking to add some mass around 15-20 lbs. when all said and done but i want it to be mostly lean. I will eat like a slob the first 3-4 weeks then i will go back to eating "clean". I would like to keep my bodyfat around the same so that if i decide i want to do another cycle it will be for rip so i can get down to 6-8% BF and hit my goals ive been working towards.

I remember reading something about Arimidex and sodium...can somebody clarify this for me? ;)
 
i would absolutely bump up the dbol to at least 30mgs/ed. also, bump the sustanon to e3d. that will give you 750mgs/wk. frontload it at 1.5g the first week to get blood levels up faster. i would even add tren at 75mgs/ed. that is the exact cycle i did for my first(except i ran dbol at 45mgs) and i loved it. put on more mass, faster on that cycle then any since. good cycle. oh, and i would run adex at .5mg/eod. clomid looks fine. have fun!
 
Dark Side Ninja, whatever you do, please DO NOT listen to Drago's advice!!! He's obviously NOT qualified to offer advice. 1500mgs of Sust, 75mg ED of Tren, and 30mgs of Dbol ED for a First Cycle?? C'mon bro, you should know better. DSN, keep it simple! IMHO, all you need to meet your goal is Test Enanthate or Sust@500mgs for 10 weeks with a low dose of [email protected] EOD or a low dose of Nolvadex@10mgs ED if that's all you have. That will keep the water retention down and keep you leaner. Focus on your diet & recuperation because this is what will make or break your cycle. Trust me, brother....
 
TexasRanger...

I'm going to stay with my planned cycle but maybe make d-bol 30mgs/week. Your right i don't think i need much to grow as long as i stick to my diet and training. I was thinking of using Enanthate instead of Sust. as i hear it would keep my blood levels more stabilized thoughout the week. What do you think? Also i think i should bump Arimidex up to .5ed since i have enough for the entire cycle.
 
is all that cardio for school? thats probably the reason why you are a hard gainer. drop the cardio or eat cheat foods more often
 
Yea...

DepressiveJuice - I was doing a lot of cardio to get my heart in great shape for a cycle. I plan to cut back on the cardio especially since i will be training martial arts for 5 days/week when i get back. I will be taking my last final tomarrow then i will have the whole summer off. I will be working, training in the martial arts, lil bit of cardio prolly sprints mainly, and lifting. Rest of the time i will just get used to sitting my ass down. I think your statement is totally accurate about why i am such a hardgainer a few of my buddies told me that could be the reason also. Thanks for the feedback bro.
 
THis post should be sticky, because it's a classic example of...

A clueless newbie

Bad advice (except for DJ and Texas)

A little bit of knowledge being a bad thing.

It sounds like Ninja's dobe some homework.. That's the problem. He thinks you need this complicated regime complete with anti-e's to contl bloat. (He'll then probably take creatine to replace bloat.)

Listen up kid. EAT. Eat until you're stuffed.. And then eat some more. Eat everything. Mix MRP's with Half & Half and a scoop of ice cream. Eat nuts, olives and peanut butter. Lift heavy. At your age you will grow like a weed!!!

And THEN...if you want to join the dark side, do it in small steps. Start with 25 mgs of D-bol for 3 weeks. You won't believe how much muscle you can put on with that.
But alas, you'll probably do too much, do it for too long, and kill any chance of making real progress in the future.




Anybody want to take bets that he won't take this advice?
 
Nelson...

I agree 99% with your advice and im going to use it. Still think some anti-e's like Arimidex shouldn't hurt at .25/ed only will effect the neg. water bloat which i don't want any part of. I will def. eat, eat, eat and im not trying to make super huge gains right off the bat just ones which are reachable with the least amount of sides. After i pack on some lbs. i wont even be thinking about another cycle for at least 4 months after that so i can get my cardio back in awesome condition then i will do a rip cycle. With my current stats i am not looking for a miracle i know i can reach my overall goals which is to be 5"10 around 190-195 at about 6-8% bodyfat by this time next year. I will post before and after pix when i begin my cycle. Thanks for the advice Nelson.
 
i agree i am of the mindset of more aggressive dosaging. but, to say that what i posted is rediculous is just wrong. who said i newbie has to start at itty bitty dosages? why shouldnt a newbie be allowed to throw on 20lbs of lbm on his first cycle. this is what i did. alot of you recommend 10 or 12 week cycles. i wouldnt do longer then 8 because i feel any longer is too much suppression. alot of you dont recommend running anti-e's throughout, but i do. so yes in some ways i am more aggressive, but in others i am more conservative. personally i dont feel anybody really knows everything. but, we learn from experience what works well for us and what doesnt. thats all i was doing. just sharing what worked well for me.
 
hey bro not a bad first cycle, but i would definately front end load the sust the first week in order to get ur test levels up....and about the arimedex i would take it unless u need to....you will be able to tell if u need to take it.....but u definately wouldnt need in the first couple of weeks
 
i just reread texas rangers post and wanted to set the record straight. i didnt recommend 1.5g's of sus for the cycle, only the first week for a frontload. and 750mgs is not at all over the top for a maintenance dosage. give me a break. to conclude from that, that i am obviously not qualified is a joke. also, 75mgs/ed is not a rediculous amount for tren either. now if i had said 100mgs, or 150mgs, yes i could see the reason to put me down. i am a very knowledgeable AAS user in my own right. i am not saying texas ranger is not, or that i know more or whatever, only that i have extensive knowledge as well. i have been studying the craft for several years and usually post at a couple other boards. i spotted this one while doing a search and thought it seemed like a friendly, knowledgeable group of guys to share info with and get info from. maybe i was wrong.
 
drago01 said:
why shouldnt a newbie be allowed to throw on 20lbs of lbm on his first cycle.
Click to expand...

There us no reason he shouldn't be allowed to put on 20lbs of lbm. But he only need 500mgs a week of test and a boat load of food to do this.

TDSN - Just stick with the test for your first cycle, 500mg week for 10 weeks. Eat a good diet and train hard, you will hit your goal of 15-20lbs of LBM. Why do the dbol if you can hit your goal without it?
With the test only you shouldn't need the a-dex, just have nolv on hand and clomid for post cycle. Good luck.
 
Hey...

Shallow Hal - Maybe your right. I may not need d-bol just wondering if it would make that much of a difference. But from a health perspective maybe i should see how well i react with test alone for my first cycle like you recommend. Thanks

The_Eviscerator - Is there anything one could take to prevent this possible acne??? I believe people were talkin about B12 to combat acne....is this correct? And is there anything else i could take for precaution purposes? I have fair skin and usually dont get that much acne.... Thanks for your help!!!
 
You just need to look at your cycle in terms of your goals. It is your first cycle and you want between 15-20lbs of LBM. Unless your training and diet are screwed you will easily hit that goal on 500mg a week of test alone. Also, I doubt you will get any unpleasant sides at that dose. Just keep the nolv around. Good luck.
 
hal,,, to say that he will make a 20 lb gain of lbm on 500mgs/wk of test is totally unfounded in reality. i have done test only cycles and have been dissapointed to say the least. and my training and nutrition are squared away. your statement is a subjective one. i just cant sit back and tell a newbie that he is going to get staggering gains off something that i know wont give it to him. in my experience a first class cycle can net maybe 30lbs in 8-10 weeks. 10 of which will be fat and water. that would be a net of 20lbs lbm. its just silly to say even a newbie can gain 20 lbs of pure muscle on that protocol. there is no reason not too run dbol, or tren with his cycle. and no reason not too jack up the dosages a bit and frontload the test.
 
Ok Drago, let me get this straight. You recommend a 170lbs newbie to take 750mgs of Sust, 30mgs of Dbol ED, and 75mgs of Tren ED. I no rocket scientist, but that's almost 1,500mgs of Gear a week on his First Cycle. Now, this is also without the 1,500mgs frontload of Sust you also suggested. And you REALLY don't think something is wrong with that, bro???? HONESTLY????
 
drago01 said:
hal,,, to say that he will make a 20 lb gain of lbm on 500mgs/wk of test is totally unfounded in reality. i have done test only cycles and have been dissapointed to say the least. and my training and nutrition are squared away. your statement is a subjective one. i just cant sit back and tell a newbie that he is going to get staggering gains off something that i know wont give it to him. in my experience a first class cycle can net maybe 30lbs in 8-10 weeks. 10 of which will be fat and water. that would be a net of 20lbs lbm. its just silly to say even a newbie can gain 20 lbs of pure muscle on that protocol. there is no reason not too run dbol, or tren with his cycle. and no reason not too jack up the dosages a bit and frontload the test.
Click to expand...

First off, he can put on between 15-20lbs of LBM off test alone on his first cycle. Keep in mind this is his FIRST cycle. If he takes the amount of gear you are suggesting where will he go from there. By his third cycle he will be using 3 grams of gear a week.

If you need to take the amount of gear you are suggesting in order to grow something is off with your training and your diet. You say you have them squared away which a seriously doubt.
Bottom line is you are giving this guy BAD ADVICE. It scares me to think some newbie might actually listen to you.
 
Re: Hey...

TheDarkSideNinja said:


The_Eviscerator - Is there anything one could take to prevent this possible acne??? I believe people were talkin about B12 to combat acne....is this correct? And is there anything else i could take for precaution purposes? I have fair skin and usually dont get that much acne.... Thanks for your help!!!
Click to expand...

I have always been prone to acne and the only thing that has worked for me is 1200 mg of ALA a day and Glycolic acid washes and lotions. I bought mine from www.skinplanet.com. I used the Glytone product line. It stings like hell sometimes, but it removes dead skin and bacteria that cause acne breakouts. It also clears up blemishes from old breakouts.

Hope this helps.
 
okay, I haven't read any of the other posts so I don't know what's been said.

It's a damn good cycle, almost exactly what I did my first time and similar to what I'll do next. First suggestion would be to keep the D-Bol at 20mg ED and maybe extend it to 6 or 7 weeks depending on how you like it. Second suggestion would be to absolutely add .25mg Arimidex ED. It's vital! Keeps the water and titties away.

On my cycle, I dropped the D-Bol at about 3 weeks and ran with Liquidex the whole time and I followed with Clomid. I gained about 11 lbs total but only lost 1 post cycle. Those were 10 SOLID pounds.

Good luck.
 
Aren't you scared you...

might not be able to call other 'roid head'. You are the biggest hypocrite, asshole in the history of elite.

Strengthfiend
 
Re: Aren't you scared you...

strengthfiend said:
might not be able to call other 'roid head'. You are the biggest hypocrite, asshole in the history of elite.

Strengthfiend
Click to expand...

Yeah guys before you help TheDorkSideAssRammer out read some of his annoying and retarded posts from between the sheets. He is a complete idiot and should be banned.

-hey Dickhead how about you go harass some homosexuals or make inappropriate comments to women on the board that just want you to leave them alone. Face it-you can't get pussy in real life so you try to scare it up at elite...pathetic
 
Actually I have an awesome idea...

for your first cycle. Go to a vet supply store and get a 14 gauge, inch and a half needle, and a 25cc barrel. Then proceed to go out and get 20 bottles of Jurox suspension. Fill up 25cc everyday and proceed to inject 10cc in your "rim", and 15cc in your forehead. Repeat this daily and you will be huge in a short period of time.

Strengthfiend
 
Just what i was thinking of Strenghtfrend...
This is the dipshit who started that poll couple of weeks ago...
Back than he called others roidheads.. and that we (users) think we are all that..

And now he's starting his first cycle.. LOL
What a fuckin joke!!!
 
hal. you are leading this guy down the road of dissapointment. too tell him he will put on 20lbs of muscle off of 500mgs/wk of test and just eating a lot of food, is foolishness. there is absolutely no reason why he shouldnt at least run a mild dose of dbol for 5 or 6 weeks. and i stick too my suggestion of adding tren also. what is the logic behind starting with ultra conservative cycles? i can see being somewhat conservative as one feels out his tolerance. but, not a cycle that will be a waste of time and money.
 
Fellas...

Would like to thank all those who gave me good advice. (Karma) For the 2 or 3 asses who have some kind of grudge with me i really can care less as i have enough friends on this board and don't look to start fights like u 2 or 3 who dont even give real or good advice anyways. This is the Anabolic Board lemme remind you guys and nobody wants to hear you same 2 or 3 cry. Hypocrit??? I don't think cause that phrase which made u so mad was intended for you and nobody else but that's a diff story. Now if anybody has any more good advice i really appreciate it. I think i will run the sust. to start at 250 mgs/mon. and wens. for 10 weeks D-bol at 20mgs/ed for 4 weeks and arimidex at .25/ed throughout the cycle itself. Then Clomid post cycle 3 weeks after last sust injection. Thanks again.
 
New Board Rules....

MetalIron and Weakfield looks like you havent read the "sticky" about new board rules which recently took affect here on the anabolic board which is trying to get rid of the same crap you just posted on me above. As you can see i did absolutely nothing in this post to start anything with anybody and for that matter have just been viewing this board in recent weeks. So i ask the mods if they will check into this and see if it breaks the new rules and maybe we can get rid of clowns like this so we can discuss and learn instead of listen to the B.S. which nobody wants to hear!!! How bout it mods???
 
i just finished damn near the same first cycle. Ran Sust for 10 weeks at 500/week with dbol weeks 1-4 and 9&10. From my experience, i would probably not do dbol again. The gains were good, although most was water weight, but the problem I have is two fold. One, my shoulder starts to hurt like a mofo, preventing me from getting good lifts in. first it was my left shoulder, weeks 1-4(at 25mg) and now my right shoulder is killing me after two weeks of only 15mg ed. another thing is I can't do anything that takes endurance. tried running, riding, and even doing over 15 reps of an exercise would cause such pumps and even cramps at times. As for the sust, read up on frontloading it and about keeping your test levels more consistent. I wouldn't run sust again, instead I'd opt for enanthate maybe. I probably won't do another cycle till the winter time, and I'll definitely be reading Nelson Montana's book before I decide on my next cycle. good luck bro.
 
Thankx bro...

I think i am going to keep the d-bol in for the 1st 4 weeks to make my strength gains improve but just using 20mgs/day. I shouldnt get too much bloat as i will be using .25/ed of Arimidex which should help.
 
texas ranger, and hal.
i really dont think i was that out of line with what i suggested to the newbie. i did a little more, but very similiar first cycle with outstanding results. 6 weeks post i had liver values done, free and bound test checked, as well a lipid profile and they all came out perfect. i think it is a myth that heavier dosages early on means that one will have to continue to dramatically increase dosages in future cycle. most AAS does not downregulate receptors forever(if at all). therefore there is absolutely no reason to assume that if one starts cycling at 750mgs/wk of test that he will be at 3g/wk in a few cycles. that wasnt the case with me, to speak from experience. i use 1g/wk of test as part of a stack and have beautiful cycles. as far as sides go from higher dosages. simply manipulate them with proper ancillaries such as adex, nolva, clomid, and HCG.
 
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