P Seven

[Fonz]

This is exactly what I posted to Fonz before, younger people rarely have a deficiency of pregnenolone and don't really notice much of difference by adding it. I took it at 33 and noticed nothing, took it at 38 and it was like being given a whole new lease on life. (And this was not P7 - but oral pregnenolone.)

I agreed with your coclusion before.

However, one piece of curiosity:

I'm 24.

And I have seen lots of people 18-26 post that P7 works great for them. So from this one can extrapolate several assumptions:

1. They were exagerrating
2. Placebo effect
3. I'm a weird genetic specimen

I can rule out #3, b/c with other compounds, I get the same results as others.

So, only #1, and#2 are left.

IMO, #1 is the most qualified response IMO.

Ulter and Macro, don't take offense at this, it just looks "strange" that everybody gets great results.......ALL THE TIME.

Fonz

 

[macrophage69alpha]

no offense

people who "really" respond tend to have anxiety, depression, sleeplessness, etc issues.

your response initially was blunted by the use of bromo.. it may have also been impacted by other supps..

and not everyone thinks its the best thing since sliced bread.. but a great percentage do.. people that are looking for the neurological effects.. as they are more in need of them (hence more likely to have neurotransmitter issues).. also tend to respond better (as they have need)

painkillers (morphine derivatives) and marjiuana also impede effect. alcohol has some impact as well as seen by MS. SSRI can change or impede affect as well.

 

[takniteasy]

painkillers (morphine derivatives)...also impede effect.

Um, what about something like Ultracet? I forgot that was something else I have been taking (for neck injury).

 

[zeeman66]

I wouldn't mind seeing a 7-oxo version only either...esp after using a competing product that while i felt benefit from,you have to use considerably more per application. Plus it doesn't smell like peppermint . Would be kinda nice to choose whether or not you wanted to use it for the immune efects etc or just to chill out.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Um, what about something like Ultracet? I forgot that was something else I have been taking (for neck injury).

while it is not an opiate it has opiate like characteristics.. so it may impede, or mute, some of the mood effects.

 

[MS]

I hear what you're saying Fonz, and I agree that a LOT of folks experience placebo effects, or exagerrate effects. In fact, I remember a study where they tested the difference in placebo response to supposed psychotropic medication depending on whether it was given to the subjects as a pill, an injection, or transdermally.....you can be sure there was a MUCH greater placebo effect with the injection, followed by the pill, followed by the transdermal. And in the field of anti-depressants in particular, the placebo response from even the top-notch palyers in the field (such as Prozac) is 30-40%. This means when you subtract the total response of 60-70%, the drug is only truly helping ~30% of the folks taking it.

So even if P7 is superior to traditional anti-Ds, I would still expect at least a 30% placebo effect. This is why I like to try things like this blind on myself and friends

The other side of this topic is the recognition that anxiety and depression in today's adolescents and young adults is very high. In part I think this is a part of growing up and the overdominance of dopaminergic activity seen with raging hormones of youth. In part I think it's a change in perceptions that make what should be a very motivated time in a person's life cycle be classed or viewed as anxiety leading to depression. In large part I think it comes from really sucky lifestyles. Whatever the cause, it is well known in the field of psychiatry that depressed and anxious youth (under ~25 years of age) respond FAR better to SSRIs compared to older folks who respond FAR better to drugs that directly increase dopamine/norepinephrine activity. This almost certainly has to do with the differences in hormonal mileu, indicating different deficiencies or excesses (likely excess in the young and deficiency in the old). P7 may be just right to offset/balance excess sympathetic activity in some young folks. Pure speculation, but I'm trying to find reasons why some younger folks might have a true response to P7. There's a lot of screwed up young folks. It MAY BE that Fonz is the exception in today's world where males that eat right, stay lean and exercise regualrly are rare???????

 

[Fonz]

I switched back to my normal 50mg 7-Keto DHEA and all is normal again.

It is most definately the pregnenolone causing the oily skin.

Macr&Ulter, you should try to manufacture a 6-oxo-DHEA version ALONE w/ no Pregnenolone.

A lot of people would buy it then.

The dosing for P7 is just too much trial and error.(IMO)

Fonz

 

[macrophage69alpha]

how much 7keto are you taking orally?

how much Pseven were you taking?

btw- certain samples will be made available for testing..

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Macro - I was wondering what, if any, effects P7 might have on the menstrual cycle? Both pos and neg. And I know everyone can be different, just wondering about generalizations.

i.e., missed periods, lighter, heavier, more regular, less frequent, etc........

Thanks.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

generally PMS should be negligible and period lighter.. though that is a big generalization.