Overhead Press

[luigisacs]

All,

I have gotten stuck on overhead presses for some time now. I'm following the MadCow/Star 5x5 protocol in which I overhead press on my middle day. I keep getting stuck at the third rep. I was thinking of a couple ideas on how to get my lift up, but wanted some advice first.

If anyone has any ideas how I could remedy my issue, it would be appreciated.

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

Have you read starting strength yet? I couldn't seem to pass 90lbs for a long time, but since I corrected my form I've gone past 135. The bar should be racked properly, across your shoulders with your elbows forward. Make sure your chest is up, and drive the bar directly in front of your face. DO NOT lean back, or push forward then back.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Even after you learn to press correctly, you'll eventually stall, and when that happens try resetting the weight and ramping up to (and past) your previous weights. Also, microplates are absolutely essential for OHP; you need the ability to go up in much smaller increments than 5 pounds to make consistent progress on a lift where the absolute poundages aren't very high.

 

[curgeo]

I got to speak with a pro powerlifter this weekend at the Arnold. This person was telling me that there is a direct coorelation between this persons shoulder press and raw and shirted bench.

Did you try when you start to fail to use your legs a little to help you through the sticking point? It's not cheating if you are using it at the end. It will overload your fibers for a longer time and eventually will lead to more strength.

If you are failing on your 3rd rep, lower the weight 5lbs or so until you find a weight that you can complete.

 

[chimera83]

I'm not saying you should try this but I have done it this way and it seemed to work. I switched the overhead press (only on wed) with the bench press (both mon and frid). I did this because my chest seems to grow with very little work, but my shoulders can always use some work. If you are going to try this then I do recommend that you use microloading.

 

[perp69]

You can try push presses if not already during that. Also can try pressing from the behind the head. Also look at your grip. I can press more with a narrow grip than a wide one. Also during your next deload try hooking some bands up and doing some presses with light weight and focus on speed (this helps me a lot).

Perp

 

[curgeo]

Perp, I would never do anything behind the head, especially barbell presses due to the stress it puts on the shoulders, specifically because of the stress on the rotators. The benefit of doing them just does not outweigh the risk, especially with barbell and heavy weight.

Pressing more narrow grip would probably signify that you have slightly stronger triceps than shoulders.

 

[blut wump]

Curgeo's advice is spot on.

One other consideration is that the sets of five are tiring you too much. You could switch over to doing 8 sets of 3 rather than 5 sets of 5. In general, don't allow yoursef to stay stuck on a lift for weeks on end. If you stay stuck for three consecutive weeks then change something. You can play with sets and reps, add or reduce volume or anything else significant you can think of to rework an attack at the lift.

One of the many reasons for continuing failure is the expectation of failure. You get to that third rep and your mind is telling you that this is the one you fail on. Your muscles start to prepare to defend you against the failure rather than exploding for a good lift and failure starts to become ingrained. Some small change can help to avoid this syndrome.

Did you try the simplest solution of backing the weight down and reramping back to your plateau?

 

[luigisacs]

Thank you all for the advice.

Just to clarify my poundage increases, I have always micro-loaded (it just made sense to me) and when I complete a certain weight the following week I add 5 pounds. I was able to handle 135 (its weak I know), without a problem but I seem to stall at 140. This is my second stint at 5x5, and I have revamped my weights, but I have basically failed at the same weight.

As for split, I do do the overhead presses on my middle day, with bench on the first and last. I believe my technique is sound, as I have had a former olympic lifter check my form at one point. My hand spacing is limited though. I had broken my wrist a few years back and can only grip the bar at certain widths. So the comfort i seeked may be hindering my technique a bit. I hold the bar about a 1/2 inch in from the knotches.

I typically try to keep the lift as a Military Press (ie. no bending, leg movement etc.) At a point of failure I do use my legs to drive through any sticking points. But I would like to keep the legs out of the equation as much as possible.

I believe I may take blut's advice and go to a 8 sets of 8 protocol. In the scope of a 5x5 should I keep the presses on the day I have them or should I move them to a day of their own? Also, does anyone know secondary assistant lifts I could use that may help with the strength of my shoulders?

Oh, and here are my vitals in case anyone needs reference.

6' 0''
128lbx (about 20% bf)
Age - 27
Squat - 195x5
Bench - 165x5 (this low number is due to the wrist issue noted above.)
Barbell Row- 155x5
Overhead Press - 140x3
Deadlift -255x5

 

[s8nlilhlpr]

Holy crap, 6'0" at 128lbs??? Is this a typo?

If your techinque is good, then its just a matter of tweaking the ramping. Try using higher reps for lower weight, then a heavy tripple to finish. The grip may be a limiting factor, you could try wrapping them with ace bandages.

 

[luigisacs]

Holy crap, 6'0" at 128lbs??? Is this a typo?

If your techinque is good, then its just a matter of tweaking the ramping. Try using higher reps for lower weight, then a heavy tripple to finish. The grip may be a limiting factor, you could try wrapping them with ace bandages.

DOH . .. sorry, at work and had to get it in before the boss came it. I'm 228. sorry.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Repeating what I said in my post above, 5 pounds is not microloading on OHP unless you're putting up some serious weight. And to repeat myself (and BW) again, simply sticking with the lift and reramping is, at this point in your training career, probably the most straightforward and effective approach. But instead of trying to throw on 140 after you ramp up to 135, do 137.5 or even 137/136.5. Those small increases will add up to a very nice percentage increase on the lift if you can sustain them for even a month or two.

 

[luigisacs]

Repeating what I said in my post above, 5 pounds is not microloading on OHP unless you're putting up some serious weight. And to repeat myself (and BW) again, simply sticking with the lift and reramping is, at this point in your training career, probably the most straightforward and effective approach. But instead of trying to throw on 140 after you ramp up to 135, do 137.5 or even 137/136.5. Those small increases will add up to a very nice percentage increase on the lift if you can sustain them for even a month or two.

Thanks for the help. I'm going to try the smaller increase. The 5 lbs increase had been working up to this point, but i guess I reached a point where its too much.

 

[chimera83]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Microloading.htm?200731
check this out if you already havent

 

[Tweakle]

just keep pressing, have patience. Until last year I never did much OHPing and it was a weak lift for me.. doing it 2 x a week has finally got me to 3 plates for a seated single. Getting stronger in other lifts and not stressing your shoulders with narrow grip squats will help, but ultimately press to press

 

[perp69]

Perp, I would never do anything behind the head, especially barbell presses due to the stress it puts on the shoulders, specifically because of the stress on the rotators. The benefit of doing them just does not outweigh the risk, especially with barbell and heavy weight.

Pressing more narrow grip would probably signify that you have slightly stronger triceps than shoulders.

I realize not everyone may like them for fear of injury but lots of folks do them with heavier weights than they can from the front, which is why I mention that. Mariusz Pudzianowski comes to mind as one who does these. I was advocating the importance of changing up the way he presses and giving some more possible options. That reminds of people that tell you not to squat because you will injury your back and such things as that. I think the best way to avoid injury is to train that muscle and keep it strong.

Perp

 

[curgeo]

Right...training that muscle, but not compromising the integrity of it. I do realize that many people do the press behind the neck without problem, but it is not something that I really feel should be recommeded and it does not have any coorelation to doing back squats for fear of injury. When done right, the back squat is not harmful, but even done right, behind the neck CAN be. I wasn't trying to call you out on that, I just don't think it should be recommended from my experience.

BTW, Pudzianowski is a fucking freak.. My Polish Brother!

 

[Tweakle]

have you seen the vids of pudz's presses? he drops 400lbs onto his neck with enough force to tear both my shoulders out their sockets, the man is a total freak of nature (anyone who deadlifts 600+ SIX days a week is not made of the same stuff as us mere mortals)

 

[mad dipz]

have you seen the vids of pudz's presses? he drops 400lbs onto his neck with enough force to tear both my shoulders out their sockets, the man is a total freak of nature (anyone who deadlifts 600+ SIX days a week is not made of the same stuff as us mere mortals)

did I hear that right? 6 days a week?

 

[blut wump]

I've seen that vid of Maruisz doing BTN presses. The man is a genotype to himself.

 

[Kabeetz]

Isn't the behind the neck = potential injury a myth? I always read so much conflicting information on this. It's right up there with the belt "controversy". I rarely hear the same answer supported by the same reasons from multiple sources either way on this kind of stuff.

 

[Tweakle]

did I hear that right? 6 days a week?

thats what he told steve mac from irongodz when they trained together, some kind of deadlift every training day (at the time)

I've also heard that pudz's breakfast is 3lbs of bacon served up with pastries and numerous snickers bars throughout the day yet he still keeps a sub 10% bf in the high 200's.. not human.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

that dood is cut from a whole other cloth...


I like BTN push presses myself... they took a good 4+ weeks to get comfortable with though.

 

[Island Son]

Before starting, stretch your arms over your head.
OHP comes after deadlift, your back and lats are tight and you may be fighting them to raise your arms... focus on the shoulders too instead of tensing the whole area.

 

[Nathan]

You could try rack presses. So you set up the overhead press in one of the squat racks - put a bench in there and then set the racks at the level that keeps the bar just above shoulder-level when you are sitting down.

The movement begins with the bar on the rack and then you explode upwards. Use considerably less weight than you normally would as well or else your joints will be pissed at you.

Doing this sort of movement is good for building explosive strength I have found but I can't tend to do it for more than a month straight or so before my joints start to hurt from it.

Also, try switching to DBs for a while to start off your shoulder workout (and have the BB press later on as like the second or third exercise you do), build that up again, and then go back to starting with BB presses.