outer pecs what to do

[onemind]

I have a wide chest and had bicep tendonitous in right shoulder so I can't go all the way down on bench press but I have no problem going all the way down with dumbells but can't seen to hit the outer pecs like I think they need to be hit any exercise sugestions

 

[gymtime]

There is no outer pec. Pecs are shaped the way they are naturally, and you can make them bigger or smaller. Long as your doing a good variety of chest excercises, that's all you can do. However, my guess is that your problem is more about fat loss than muscle gain. Hit the diet and cardio more and you'll see more of your pecs.

 

[Vortexx]

While it's true you cannot really pinpoint outside or inside chest, the fact that chestmuscles have separate attachments at different angles, we can choose to develope the strands that mainly run from inside to out instead to up or down side of the chest therefor:

low incline flyes ( 15-30 degrees) and low-incline dumbell presses

try this chest program:

session 1-4

10-8-6 incline (30 degrees) dumbell press
10-8-6 incline (15 degrees) dumbell flyes
10-8-6 flat dumbell press
10-8-6 decline dumbell press

session 5-8

10-8-6 incline (30 degrees) dumbell press
10-8-6 incline (15 degrees) dumbell flyes
10-8-6 decline dumbell press
10-8-6 flat dumbell press

session 9-12

10-8-6 incline (15 degrees) dumbell press
10-8-6 incline (30 degrees) dumbell flyes
10-8-6 flat dumbell press
10-8-6 decline dumbell press

session 13-16

10-8-6 incline (15 degrees) dumbell press
10-8-6 incline (30 degrees) dumbell flyes
10-8-6 flat dumbell press
10-8-6 decline dumbell press


You wil be using very basic proven exercises for basic repranges. While we devote a few sessions to make progresse in a particular exercise, some juggling in the exercise order will provide a continued stimulus for your body to growth.


After 8 weeks of mass training it is advisable to do 2 weeks of specific tendon training (thicker tendons allow for more muscle to attach to them and to make progress in strength / prevent injuries)

No matter what reps you are using for tendon training they seem best trained when using the same weight for multiple sets and trying to complete the same amount of reps as in the first set
(very exhausting)

Example:

pick a weight you can do 10 reps with and do 6 sets of them, reps will gradually fall as u get tired....

for a BB seeking hypertrophy it is not advisable to do tendon traiing with LOW reps, like 5-6 reps as they are not used to work in this reprange, this would be more fitted for powerlifters, also while a constant weight is causing less hypertrophy than increasing weight each set. It is better to do tendontraiing in the "zone" to be prepared making new gains in mass and strength after that.

In your case tendontraining:

WEEK 1: TENDON TRAINING CHEST

incline dumbell press 6 * 10 ........
flat dumbell press 6 * 10 ........
(reps drop gradually each set , like 10,9,9,8,7,6.... weight stays same)

WEEK 2: TENDON TRAINING CHEST
incline dumbell press 6 * 8 ........
flat dumbell press 6 * 8 ........

Now get back for another eight weeks on your regular mass training program and taste the fruits of stronger tendons by being able poush more weight around.

 

[onemind]

thanks for help that other fuck knows shit just wanted to hear some good advice

 

[onemind]

there is no outer peck lol

 

[bignate73]

thanks for help that other fuck knows shit just wanted to hear some good advice

tread lightly new guy, you dont know who knows what yet.

as for stimultaing here or there, are you really at such an elite level that you are truly sculpting? or are you going by "feel"? "feel" is a nice fat misconception that ranks up there with lower abs and spot reduction.

if your chest isnt growing, look at your training, how monotonous is it? are you hitting it frequently enough or too often? do you keep the same rep scheme? same weights, same speed?

an exercise suggestion wont get your chest growing, its not a matter of "i must not have learned the outer pec exercise.". chances are you missed alot, how is your diet?

dont be so quick to flame someone who tells you what you dont want to hear.....

and welcome to the board

 

[FitnessFrk]

outer pec ! LMAO...

by the way does anyone know how I can isolate the lateral head on my triceps ?..

 

[gymtime]

Other fuck?? Damn! tough audience today.

 

[onemind]

didn't mean to fly of the handle on ya its just there are exercises that hit the outer area of your pecs like dips I know a few of them just wanted to see if I could get any sugestions on new ones I just felt like you were talking down to me

 

[FitnessFrk]

there is no outer pec or iner pec, just the clavicular head and the sternal head. you can not target an insertion point.

trying to isolate part of the chest is like trying to isolate the vastus medialis or the vastus lateralis. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE !!!

 

[onemind]

I know you can't isolate but there are exercises that hit the inside more than outside and so on

 

[FitnessFrk]

name one exercise.

just because you perform a certain exercise and you "feel" it more in a certain area does not mean it is any more effective.

 

[Vortexx]

I didn't claim using low inlines you train more outer than inner part of the chest, no

i claim that at these angle you train the most fibers that go from the inside to the outside, instead of top or bottom of the chest, hence this way you have a fuller inner AND outer chest wearing a tanktop

Some people even argue that we even shouldn't do incline benchpressing as "it is not possible to hit upper chest" or that we "shouldn't do flatbenchpresses" because weighted dips would take care of the whole chest.... etc... I agree that way too many people dream up fancy angles exercise and equipment and drift away from the basics, but other people turn to nihilism...

About the vastus medialis and the vastus lateralis

Try HACKSQUATS in 2 variants:

1. feet at shoulderwidth in front of you (like smith machine squats) toes slightly pointing out , more medial action

2. close stance, feet directly under your torso, feet forward (it will be nearly impossible not to lift your heels when going down),
more lateral action.

I did variant 2 for 8 weeks and made improvements in my vastus latereralis as opposed to normal hacksquats. While it's true you cannot change genetic muscle shape, it is the determined training that will reveal if you were born with peaked biceps or not, also you can EMPHASIZE parts of muscle as (depending on you biomechanical build) certain exercise skip certain fibers of a muscle. In most cases there is considerable overlap , in the sence that it's very hard to solely focus on the ie. triceps lateral head, but certain exercises get this head better into play than others

Why do you think free weights are considered superior to machines???

Oviously the machines stimulates a smaller area, so there is your clue that to a certain degree the choice of exercises does play a roll in sculpting, however you have to do this in a hardcore way and for a considerable time to make a significant differance (best example Larry Scotts peaked biceps) Maybe he had them all along, but it wasn't until Larry Scott curls that they showed off.

 

[FitnessFrk]

If you use the heaviest weights possible on a progressive basis all muscle fiber types will be stimulated. The brain cannot selectively recruit muscle fibers. The brain does not care about velocity or repetitions only force. When a sufficient load is placed on the muscles and FG fibers are recruited it is automatic that the FOG, FO and S types are recruited as well.

 

[onemind]

I already did name an exercise if you could read "dips"

 

[gymtime]

I already did name an exercise if you could read "dips"

So explain to me how it is that dips target these "outer pecs".

 

[onemind]

i am not sure how to explain it exactly but I think its the stretch that you get when you go down you will notice it when you lean forward on the way down and I think the first place I heard about it was an Arnould training tip I know he allways did them

 

[FitnessFrk]

Ah yea nice scientific answer! ...

Arnold is a genetic freak. Because he did something definitely does not mean it's going to do jack diddly for the majority of weight trainers. Arnold would have had a spectacular physique regardless of what type of training routine he followed.

It is a moot point. You CAN NOT isolate part of the pecs, as there is no inner or outer pectoral. Targeting insertion points doesn't do dick! Changing the angle on dips doesn't do dick!

 

[MarshallPenniford]

OneMind - No offense man, but you are talking out your ass. Because Arnold says so. Arnold is so clueless about how the body works it isn't funny. Different angles of different excersises will recruit different fibers or even different heads to different degrees, but when you start pounding a muscle with heavy weights, the brain is so furiously tryintg to recruit fibers, all the minor differences become outweighed. You are going to "shape" a muscle, and there is no outer pec, sorry. So jumping on gymtime was not cool, considering you're the one in error. You know what I mean?

Hit your chest hard, it will grow. Don't worry about which excersise you use. Good luck.

 

[b fold the truth]

Seems as if this is a super confusing thread.

I can do flat bench press about 20 different ways...all of them I feel in a different spot and each causes growth in a different area.

Saying that an exercise "targets" a certain area is probably the wrong word to use. Saying that a certain exercise "hits" a certain area more than another is correct.

B True

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Bfold, I think it's a case of that is what you think is happenening, but not the reality of the situation.

 

[b fold the truth]

Bfold, I think it's a case of that is what you think is happenening, but not the reality of the situation.

If all bench pressing is equal then why do we do close grips to hit the tric more?

Why do we do wider grip bench pressing to hit the pecs and shoulders more?

If all chest movements are the same...then why do people prefer dbells over barbells often?

It wouldn't be because they might hit different areas of the muscle, would it? I think that it would.

B True

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Because when dealing with a compound movement, you can change your targeted muscles, and the degree of activation of those muscles, by changing your ROM, leverage, grip width, etc. It doesn't mean anything different is happening in the muscle other than the total number of fibers recruited changing.

Your chest doesn't know or care if it's doing a flye or a bench press, it does the exact same thing as far as your chest is concerned, you will just exclude the other assisting muscles with the flye, and possibly have a different response from the endrocrine system as well.

 

[onemind]

If all bench pressing is equal then why do we do close grips to hit the tric more?

Why do we do wider grip bench pressing to hit the pecs and shoulders more?

If all chest movements are the same...then why do people prefer dbells over barbells often?

It wouldn't be because they might hit different areas of the muscle, would it? I think that it would.

B True


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That is exactly what I was trying say

 

[b fold the truth]

Because when dealing with a compound movement, you can change your targeted muscles, and the degree of activation of those muscles, by changing your ROM, leverage, grip width, etc. It doesn't mean anything different is happening in the muscle other than the total number of fibers recruited changing.

Your chest doesn't know or care if it's doing a flye or a bench press, it does the exact same thing as far as your chest is concerned, you will just exclude the other assisting muscles with the flye, and possibly have a different response from the endrocrine system as well.

Ok...you are mistaken. If you do not think that grip width makes a difference on which muscles are involved in the exercise...you are wrong. Closer and wider grips on the bench press, as well as when doing dips, make a huge difference which muscles are being worked.

Try taking a wide stance and doing a squat with your shins straight up and down...then try doing an ATTF squat. They are both squats yet you will feel one in your quads and one in your hams and hips.

If my chest doesn't know or care if it is doing a fly or a bench press...then why not just do flyes or cables for that matter?

You are basically saying that no matter how you do a movement...you can NOT work a muscle group any different. This is false. Look back on my speed upper workout from last Friday...tell me that when I do a closer grip it doesn't hit my inner pecs as well as my tric more than a wider grip does. It also makes them grow more.

Heck, if we use your theory...we could all do close grip bench press to develop our outter pecs...since all hand placements are equal.

B True

 

[MarshallPenniford]

B fold - read what I wrote again. That's exactly the opposite of what I said.

 

[FitnessFrk]

Originally posted by onemind
If all bench pressing is equal then why do we do close grips to hit the tric more?
Why do we do wider grip bench pressing to hit the pecs and shoulders more?
If all chest movements are the same...then why do people prefer dbells over barbells often?

all of the excercise that you mentioned provide different results because the target muscles and synergists used are all different.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

And yes, to develop your chest, you could only do flyes. That would be perfect.

 

[sorerotators]

And yes, to develop your chest, you could only do flyes. That would be perfect.

So much for that decline bench B Fold. I'm just gonna do flyes from now on.

 

[b fold the truth]

Me too...because I can't target any portion of my chest or any other muscle...flyes it is.

I can do flat flyes, incline flyes, decline flyes, lateral flyes, etc...for my huge chest. I also hope that I never hear anyone say that they really want to bring out their front delts again...or their outter bicep, or their quad sweep...it must be impossible after reading this thread.

B True

 

[gettinlarger]

marshall, not to be a dick or anything, but i really think youre mistaken ... why dont you do just flys for 8 weeks. then another 8 weeks include various chest exercises - incline bench, flat bench, dbs, bbs, whatever. then come back and tell us what happened.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

Don't worry - no offense taken guys. You guys just need to study a physiology textbook. You can't change the function of the chest muscle.

To answer your question, I suppose only doing flyes would result in a serious amount of atrophy in tris and delts. So I'll pass. Not to mention any loss in hormonal response I would suffer.

But, as far as targeting the chest muscles, just flyes are fine, and it doesn't matter what angle you do them at. Do you think your chest muscle actually knows if it's contracting from a flye or a press?

B fold, you can train front delts because of the way the shoulder is designed, but you can't hit your outer biceps in any meaningful way. Out of curiosity, why all the sarcasm?

 

[b fold the truth]

B fold, you can train front delts because of the way the shoulder is designed, but you can't hit your outer biceps in any meaningful way. Out of curiosity, why all the sarcasm?

Why the sarcasm? Because you are wrong.

I made a B in physiology...and it taught me NOTHING about the bench press, how to build huge pecs, and it spoke nothing about flyes either. Shoot...the professor even said that your tendons and ligaments could never get any stronger than they were when you were born.

If I took everything that every professor taught me in the Health, Phys dept...and piled it up into one big pile...I'd have enough total crap to fertilize the entire state of Kentucky. Note that those professors and so called experts are all 6'3" 180lbs too. None of them had to find a way to push past their limits or to "bring out their outter pecs." Doesn't sound like you have either.

B True

 

[MarshallPenniford]

B - If you want to think I'm wrong, go ahead. You still haven't been able to explain why I'm wrong, short of citing anectdotal evidence, your poor grade in physiology and the fact that you had a sh*tty professor. None of it changes the facts of the matter.

I have always enjoyed reading your posts, and your threads about your strongman training, and you seemed like a cool guy. Now, rather than explaining yourself, you act like an ass and choose to insult me. How big I am, or anyone else is, is not relevant to the discussion. Not everybody wants to eat themselves to 285lbs, you know? So how can you make judgements about how hard I push myself?

 

[bignate73]

gym science will tell you that a bench press will build your chest and flyes isolate.

the muscle action of the pectorals is exactly the same for a bench press and a flye. the difference being one is a press using many other muscles to move the humerus and one is an isolated contraction of the pectorals to move the humerus. (think about what your upper arm is doing in both motions)

i wish you guys would learn muscle action, it only makes you look silly when you cant even tell that the intended movement is the same. the difference between the movement is the amount of weight used (obviously) but thats not to say that the tension isnt the same since the load is further from the fulcrum. a little kinesiology, physics and biomechanics will go a long way here......

nothing marshallpenniford said was wrong. it was taken out of context and clouded by long standing misconceptions. noone is questioning or belittling your sport, its just that there are more than 2 ways to skin a cat. flyes being the isolated movement of the pectorals, presses being a COMPOUND movement, meaning there is more than one joint involved and many different muscle groups moving the load.

noone is saying you have to change your training style or preferences, but at least understand how the muscle is acting in each movement to at least give you new avenues to try.

sheesh.

 

[b fold the truth]

B - If you want to think I'm wrong, go ahead. You still haven't been able to explain why I'm wrong, short of citing anectdotal evidence, your poor grade in physiology and the fact that you had a sh*tty professor. None of it changes the facts of the matter.

I have always enjoyed reading your posts, and your threads about your strongman training, and you seemed like a cool guy. Now, rather than explaining yourself, you act like an ass and choose to insult me. How big I am, or anyone else is, is not relevant to the discussion. Not everybody wants to eat themselves to 285lbs, you know? So how can you make judgements about how hard I push myself?

I feel that I am greatly misunderstanding what everyone is saying here. This just doesn't seem right. I am not for sure if we are talking about the same thing or not.

I can not sit here and point out to you, or anyone else, why I can emphasize my outter pecs in a bench press movement...but I can. I can NOT isolate just them...but I can put more stress on them. How does a bodybuilder bring his out in the off-season?

When is a B a poor grade in a class? I was proud of my B actually.

Insult you? Maybe you took my point incorrectly...and maybe it was way out of line. It probably was way out of line, and if it is, I apologize. People can learn from a book on how to do things, as my professors have, but till they do it themselves they will never see that they were wrong.

You don't have to eat yourself to 285lbs...I didn't either. I trained a time or two also. Didn't say that you didn't push yourself either.

B True

 

[p-onyx]

Is it true that doing dips will mess up your shoulder blades. I know they are great to get the area around the lower part of your chest but is it really that good on your shoulders.