OT ~ I am so pissed! Need advice

[2Shy]

Probably should put this on the chat board, but I think women will have a better feel for things ... you'll see what I mean.

My 12 year old daughter came home from school today in tears. She started junior high this year.

She had a slight problem with a girl when school started. Rachel was trying to get the top part of her locker to work. It went flying out and the other girl caught it before it hit her. But she was mad and for about a week and a half (just found out it lasted that long) she would try slamming her own locker door into Rachel, slam Rachel's door shut and mess with the lock, etc.

Today, the girl brought out a bottle of cheap perfume and sprayed it all over Rachel, including in the face. She said something, but Rachel says she didnt make out the words. She was with a friend, who apparently did, but she said she didn't ask him. Yeah, well, I dont' quite believe that part of it, but not pressing.

She says this is the first time in awhile that this girl has acted up. No teachers in the hall for a change.

Rachel's very quiet. She looks like your average kid (not too skinny not heavy at all). She does have glasses. I mention this since I know that to be different in middle school is like wearing a huge KICK ME sign.

Asked her if she wanted me to talk to someone about it. Told her it may make things better, but it could make things worse. She didn't have an opinion.

Rachel does tend to focus on fair play and what's "right" which from a social standpoint (at her age) isn't always a blessing.

Right now, I'd like to take that other girl by the scruff of the neck and shake her.

It's been 30 years since I was my daughter's age. I think that this other girl has picked Rachel as her "target" for the year. I'm just not sure about the best way for Rachel to handle her. I did tell her that if it ever became physical (i.e., the girl trying to hit her) that she had my blessing to defend herself.

Sugar and spice, my ass.

Any insights? I'm too damn close to this.

~2Shy

 

[alien amp pharm]

So, from this story I gather that you are 42.

Are you a MILF?

 

[alien amp pharm]

Ok, now I'll be serious....

There is always gonna be bullies. I was taught to always stick up for myself, or else I would get ran over my entire life.

Best advice I ever received.

The difficult part is that nowadays with all the violence and killings, it's pretty much zero tolerance for acts of violence. Remember it's not like it use to be where you get in a fight, then just get suspended for a day or two. It's much worse now.

 

[Code]

Are you single?

 

[discussion]

tell her to ask that girl if she learned anything from columbine...it might scare her

 

[big4life]

Your daughter needs to stand up to the other girl. She doesn't have to fight her, just let her know that she is not going to run away from a bully.

 

[toga22]

I think the best idea is to let your daughter handle this other girl on her own. I think it is a great idea for you to coach her on effective things to say or do to make this girl stop harassing her; however, I truely believe that if you stepped in an solved the issue for her that things only will become worse.

Now I guess the big question is how is your daughter going to deal with this other girl.. Well thinking back to junior high/high school, people thrive on what others think of them...their public image. And I am guessing that this other girl does most of her harrassing in front of her friends. She is doing it, basically to gain acceptance. So the best way to bring her down is to either confront her in front of others, expose something embarrsing about her, or stand up to her, to the point of making her speechless in front of her friends.
I guess the point here is that your daughter will gain the upperhand...

Of course there is no guarantee that the taunting will stop...some people are mean just because they enjoy it... And if your daughter is not comfortable standing up to this other girl, I would say that she should not even acknowledge her existence. I think that this other girl is picking on your daughter because, your daughters reaction makes her feel superior.. So if your daughter did not even acknowledge her...the fun would be gone; and this girl will find someone new to pester.

I know I am rambling...Good Luck to the both of you...

 

[Lestat]

post a pic

 

[alien amp pharm]

LOL @ some of our responses.
we are such a$$holes at times.

 

[sh4dowf4lcon]

This is the hard part, this is one of the battles your daughter will have to work through on her own. You can offer suggestions but let her know you have the confidence in her to find a way to work it out.

You wont always be there to call the teachers and principals, some times children have to fight their own
battles.

Good Luck

 

[canadianhitman]

The blessing you gave to defend herself was the right advice. This will allow your daughter to determine her own 'line in the sand' so to speak; she and she alone can determine when push should come to shove, based on her personality and moral beliefs. Just let her know that you will stand up to the principal/school board for her should she have to take matters into her own hands. That's all you can really do for her right now.

 

[Becoming]

Next time her little locker neighbor is there- tell her to kick her in the back of the knee which is holding up her weight... when the girl drops to her knees- tell her to grab her by the back of the hair and to smash her face into the lockers until she stops resisting, then just let go, let the girl fall to the ground, and go about her business... you can forget about that girl or anyone else bothering her after that....

and you can forget about any guys trying to get in her pants at prom later....

two birds with one stone baby...

 

[red_evil]

as a teacher, my first advice is that she or you report the harassment to her building principal. most if not all schools have harassment/bullying policies in place, in response to the rash of violent acts in schools such as columbine. harassment and bullying are no longer seen as rites of passage. most schools require to harasser to sign a document recording the incident details, which is kept on file for future reference. it's considered a written warning. after which, future incidents of harassment result in escalating punishment and even long term suspention.

i'm not sure what policies are in place in your school district, but at my school reports of bullying or harassment are not overlooked. it would serve you well to explore your school's policy. it should be included in your school site handbook.

personally, i understand the motivation to let her handle it for herself. i often have been in the position where i had to advise students in very similar situations. my stock answer is, if you choose to fight, do so knowing the consequence and accept that consequence without complaint.

that's my two cents.....for what it's worth......

 

[Becoming]

as a teacher, blah blah blah......

Funny that this still teaches her to look outside for help dealing with the situation... and it may not necessarily solve the problem... I am sure they can call her "snitch" and "stool pidgeon" or whatever and ostracize her at school and longterm cause her to be seen as an outcast.... And again she will be forced to deal with it, and she will feel the burden on her shoulders...

Funny that there were no shootings back in the day when we had dodgeball and initiations and bullying and schoolyard fights, and before all these pinko commie "it takes a village" and "we need to all get along" crap started...

 

[argent]

You should alert the administration of waht is going on. They might not be able to do a whole lot at first, but if they know about the harrassmnent in advance and then your daughter beats the shit out of her it will be better. If they don't know about the harrasment and your daughter goes after her, she will look like the agreassor and be held more at fault b/c she didn't TRY to talk to and "adult" figure.

 

[wend]

Boy, the enlightenment evidenced in this thread is just mindboggling. I'm really overwhelmed.

Personally, I'd encourage her to go to the faculty. The perfume spraying would have really sucked if it had gotten in her eyes. Who knows what the bitch is going to do next? I don't think I'd wait to see. Nor would I encourage her to participate in violence. That could seriously jeopardize her academic career.

At her age, there's no shame nor weakness in seeking help from the adults around her. That's what they're there for.

 

[Becoming]

For all the people who say it is best to call in the teachers- my good bor sh4dowf4lcon summed it up best....

You wont always be there to call the teachers and principals, some times children have to fight their own
battles.

What happens when there is no one to call?.... you just raised a victim... congrats...

 

[Imnotdutch]

For all the people who say it is best to call in the teachers- my good bor sh4dowf4lcon summed it up best....



What happens when there is no one to call?.... you just raised a victim... congrats...

You friend are a dumbass. Figures of authority are there for a reason.......you should use them appropriately. In todays society there is always somebody to call when you are being harassed.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Bottom line is that toher girl assaulted your daughter........perfume contains alcohol and that isnt fun when it gets in the eyes. This needs to be reported and put on file. It might be that your daughter has to appear to deal with the situation but that doesnt mean that she cant be getting support from staff at school.

Bottom line is that other girl has to learn that there are consequences for everything that you do.

Probably should put this on the chat board, but I think women will have a better feel for things ... you'll see what I mean.

My 12 year old daughter came home from school today in tears. She started junior high this year.

She had a slight problem with a girl when school started. Rachel was trying to get the top part of her locker to work. It went flying out and the other girl caught it before it hit her. But she was mad and for about a week and a half (just found out it lasted that long) she would try slamming her own locker door into Rachel, slam Rachel's door shut and mess with the lock, etc.

Today, the girl brought out a bottle of cheap perfume and sprayed it all over Rachel, including in the face. She said something, but Rachel says she didnt make out the words. She was with a friend, who apparently did, but she said she didn't ask him. Yeah, well, I dont' quite believe that part of it, but not pressing.

She says this is the first time in awhile that this girl has acted up. No teachers in the hall for a change.

Rachel's very quiet. She looks like your average kid (not too skinny not heavy at all). She does have glasses. I mention this since I know that to be different in middle school is like wearing a huge KICK ME sign.

Asked her if she wanted me to talk to someone about it. Told her it may make things better, but it could make things worse. She didn't have an opinion.

Rachel does tend to focus on fair play and what's "right" which from a social standpoint (at her age) isn't always a blessing.

Right now, I'd like to take that other girl by the scruff of the neck and shake her.

It's been 30 years since I was my daughter's age. I think that this other girl has picked Rachel as her "target" for the year. I'm just not sure about the best way for Rachel to handle her. I did tell her that if it ever became physical (i.e., the girl trying to hit her) that she had my blessing to defend herself.

Sugar and spice, my ass.

Any insights? I'm too damn close to this.

~2Shy

 

[strangebrew]

The chat board is the #1 place for advice. If I ever have any life changing decisions to make, I guarantee this is the first place I'll look to for help.

 

[Imnotdutch]

The chat board is the #1 place for advice. If I ever have any life changing decisions to make, I guarantee this is the first place I'll look to for help.

Whatwever it si you are contemplating doing........dont........it aint worth it.

 

[strangebrew]

Whatwever it si you are contemplating doing........dont........it aint worth it.

I'm thinking of quiting my job and becoming a wineo. any advice on this?

 

[Imnotdutch]

I'm thinking of quiting my job and becoming a wineo. any advice on this?

Disregard my last advice.........definitely do it. You wont regret it. This is the only way that you will appreciate what you have right now.

 

[-SD-]

Im afraid we wont be able to dispense any quality advice unless you show us your tits.


Please.

 

[strangebrew]

Disregard my last advice.........definitely do it. You wont regret it. This is the only way that you will appreciate what you have right now.

thanks, I'll get right on it.

 

[2Shy]

Superdave, did you just ask Strangebrew to show you his tits?

Thanks everyone ... even the ones who offered more -erm- creative solutions.

I never considered getting the incident on paper to protect my daughter in case of future problems.

I think it's important for Rachel to handle this problem on her own. It sends a message to other would-be bullies and will help with Rachel's self-confidence. But I want the school to know what's going on, too. I just have to figure out how to balance the two.

Also got a smile and a laugh from the kid when I suggested that Rachel give the bitch a bottle of good perfume and ask her to please use it instead because that other stuff smells like shit.

 

[red_evil]

starting the paper trail on a bully/harasser is a good first step.

becoming can blah, blah blah me all he wants. i know how these things work from the inside out. it will protect your child's interests in the long wrong to report the incident.

i'm the last person to say that kids should never stick up for themselves. i've seen countless times when the bully would back down, once someone stood up to them. and i've often thought it would be worth the price of a ringside seat to see a bully get what's coming to them.

however, if nothing is said, when your daughter finally gets her belly full and kicks the shit out of her bully, she will look like the bad guy. she will still have to be prepared to accept the consequences of fighting, because in the eyes of most administrators, anyone who throws a punch will be punished. regardless if it is even in self defense. i know it sucks, but that's just the way things are. the risk of a liability law suit is too high, if the school lets any violent act go unpunished. on the other hand, if she chooses to fight, she's better make sure she kicks the shit out of her bully, or she will most certainly be a target of harassment for many days to come.

 

[canadianhitman]

Just thought of something...does your daughter have any allergies? Did the smell of the perfume make her feel ill? Because if either is true, she may be able to put this bully into REALLY deep shit. I've seen cases where someone that doused a victim in perfume were charged with administering a noxious substance or something like that. You could go right to the cops and give the bully a real scare.

 

[PHATchik]

Don't try to interfere. Your daughter has to handle this on her own. If you step in, then things will get worse for Rachel. From working at a girls' camp this summer, I know that kids get into some huge messes and fights. It's best not to interfere. She has to decide when enough is enough, and if she is anything like her mom, she will.

 

[2Shy]

Thought I'd give everyone an update.

I talked to Rachel last night and this morning about how she might handle this girl in the future and got her to offer up some suggestions for ways for her to handle it.

Today after my workout I called the school. I had a good talk with one of the principals and expressed my concern that things might escalate if the school became involved. The principal agreed with me that that could happen. She will talk to Rachel about what's been going on, alert the teachers/hall monitor to keep an eye on things and basically strategize (her words, not mine) with Rachel about how she wants to handle this. The principal said that she felt calling in the other girl just now would be a wrong decision because even if this girl backed off, her friends would probably pick up where things left off. I was glad to hear her say this because that was exactly my concern.

So, Rachel will get a little coaching. She'll know that someone's aware of what's going on, which should make her feel more secure, yet she'll be able to handle things with the other girl on her own.

Thanks again for listening to me and offering advice.

~2Shy

 

[Y_lifter]

Great School Staff you have there.
Very unusual for them to even Talk the talk never mind walk the walk...

This sounds a bit like my 12 yr old daughter with the fair play sensitivity. Fortunatly she has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and can defend herself if it gets physical. The mental game is what bothers her. Everyone is supposed to like her and all...

The stupid head games are one thing, when it gets physical is when I get worried.

Good job Mom..

 

[Imnotdutch]

Also got a smile and a laugh from the kid when I suggested that Rachel give the bitch a bottle of good perfume and ask her to please use it instead because that other stuff smells like shit.

LMAO.........

Back home there was this little lad who was a bit of a mommies boy. When he started school the bigger kids always took his lunch money. all the various adults got involved but nothing changed. Then they tried to take my 6 year old nieces lunch money (she was the boys friend).........shit really hit the fan. She whooped some ass Reckon they got what they deserved hehehe.

Ever seen a 6 year old with a six pack?? Shit she had abs when she was a baby. Stomach like a washboard........made me jealous as hell.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Hope it works out........sounds like the school know what they are doing.

Thought I'd give everyone an update.

I talked to Rachel last night and this morning about how she might handle this girl in the future and got her to offer up some suggestions for ways for her to handle it.

Today after my workout I called the school. I had a good talk with one of the principals and expressed my concern that things might escalate if the school became involved. The principal agreed with me that that could happen. She will talk to Rachel about what's been going on, alert the teachers/hall monitor to keep an eye on things and basically strategize (her words, not mine) with Rachel about how she wants to handle this. The principal said that she felt calling in the other girl just now would be a wrong decision because even if this girl backed off, her friends would probably pick up where things left off. I was glad to hear her say this because that was exactly my concern.

So, Rachel will get a little coaching. She'll know that someone's aware of what's going on, which should make her feel more secure, yet she'll be able to handle things with the other girl on her own.

Thanks again for listening to me and offering advice.

~2Shy

 

[argent]

starting the paper trail on a bully/harasser is a good first step.

becoming can blah, blah blah me all he wants. i know how these things work from the inside out. it will protect your child's interests in the long wrong to report the incident.

i'm the last person to say that kids should never stick up for themselves. i've seen countless times when the bully would back down, once someone stood up to them. and i've often thought it would be worth the price of a ringside seat to see a bully get what's coming to them.

however, if nothing is said, when your daughter finally gets her belly full and kicks the shit out of her bully, she will look like the bad guy. she will still have to be prepared to accept the consequences of fighting, because in the eyes of most administrators, anyone who throws a punch will be punished. regardless if it is even in self defense. i know it sucks, but that's just the way things are. the risk of a liability law suit is too high, if the school lets any violent act go unpunished. on the other hand, if she chooses to fight, she's better make sure she kicks the shit out of her bully, or she will most certainly be a target of harassment for many days to come.

This is pretty much what I was trying to convey.

 

[Becoming]

first I would like to say nice job to 2 shy- I think you found a good compromise in that you will let her figure her own solution out, yet you found a way to "alert the authorities" I think long term it will be a good approach- also I wanted to note that is a very unsual but a good approach by the people in the school who have such a view...

Second thanks Imnotdutch for calling me a moron, though we have agreed on other topics in the past- yet you talk and praise a situation about how some kid got picked on and it took some little girl to take care of business by standng up for herself... just an observation...

Red evil- I was trying to say what is best in terms of the social relations of the child... I would rather my kid stand up amongst others- I understand they might get in trouble with the school, but I am willing to deal with it, if they can't see the kid was defending themselves- why do I need thier input anyway...

the school "bans" against violence don't do anything against bullying- it just moves to social and or more psychological aspects-I am sure there is a lot they can do about that... and last time I took a psych class, mental/emotional abuse was far more damaging than physical.... children need to learn to take care of situations on thier own

Next time report it to the typical school authorities- watch the other kids ostracize the kid, and then write up a big report for me on how beneficial the whole experience is for the long term development of the child... what a joke...

 

[Bullit]

I would suggest you call the CIA, FBI, ATF, Local Police, Fire Dept, Ambulance and the Dog Catcher.
Just to be safe.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Second thanks Imnotdutch for calling me a moron, though we have agreed on other topics in the past- yet you talk and praise a situation about how some kid got picked on and it took some little girl to take care of business by standng up for herself... just an observation...

She took care of it herself yes........but the school was aware fo the situation. If she needed them they were there.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Your method of letting trhe kids sort it out basically sets up the majority of the kids for getting bullied. Great move. That simply means that those kids will lose hope and not perform in school. Before you know it you have set up a failing generation of kids that see violence as the only way forward.

 

[Becoming]

Or you could just pamper and baby them and let them believe "big brother" will come in to save them if they can't or won't handle a problme- Oh, wait, that is what half the losers in our society think today!

 

[Imnotdutch]

Or you could just pamper and baby them and let them believe "big brother" will come in to save them if they can't or won't handle a problme- Oh, wait, that is what half the losers in our society think today!

You really arent listening are you. 'Big brother' is providing the necessary support to end the problem. They are not jumping in throwing their weight around........just giving support.

Whether you like it or not, for civilised society to exist people must realise that they are answerable for their actions. If you behave unsociably you have to pay for it. If you are an adult, the Police deal with it. With kids other figures of authority deal with it. Simple as that.

What would you do if somebody burgled your house........or raped your wife? Would the police get involved or would you act like Rambo? Just wandering........

 

[Becoming]

You really arent listening are you. 'Big brother' is providing the necessary support to end the problem. They are not jumping in throwing their weight around........just giving support.

Dude- I hear your point- i think it is awesome to behave in a more civilized manner, and if more people did it would solve a lot of problems, but there is some point where "big brother" will not be there to save your a$$... what will you do then? my only point is that people need to know how to deal with (or even diffuse) a situation on thier own... without an authorities intervention.... in the scenario I hypothesized- the girl ends up ridiculed or otherwise ostracized by the other students... what do you do then- tell them to be nice to her? give me a break, it will only get worse... I saw this first hand happened to kids even when I was at that age 15-20 years ago, and I am sure it still happens today...

What would you do if somebody burgled your house........or raped your wife? Would the police get involved or would you act like Rambo? Just wandering........

They would never make it through the door, in fact, I would be suprised if you could identify them afterwards. This something I guarantee... And considering they have no right to be in my house, if the authorities at large decide I have overstepped my rights, I would rather be in prison than to live in a society with such f'd up values...

 

[Imnotdutch]

Regarding your first point.......

I agree that kids need to learn to deal with awkward situations. However you seem to be advocating a sink or swim policy. Nobody is saying have somebody step in to do all of the hard work.........we are just saying give the girl some support. IMO it would be wrong for the 'authorities' to do the whole thing.......that leaves the girl wide open in the future.

Second point: you cant be there all of the time. Even if you were, even a 260lber like yourself cant handle every situation in his own. What happens when you cant handle the situation alone?

Dude- I hear your point- i think it is awesome to behave in a more civilized manner, and if more people did it would solve a lot of problems, but there is some point where "big brother" will not be there to save your a$$... what will you do then? my only point is that people need to know how to deal with (or even diffuse) a situation on thier own... without an authorities intervention.... in the scenario I hypothesized- the girl ends up ridiculed or otherwise ostracized by the other students... what do you do then- tell them to be nice to her? give me a break, it will only get worse... I saw this first hand happened to kids even when I was at that age 15-20 years ago, and I am sure it still happens today...



They would never make it through the door, in fact, I would be suprised if you could identify them afterwards. This something I guarantee... And considering they have no right to be in my house, if the authorities at large decide I have overstepped my rights, I would rather be in prison than to live in a society with such f'd up values...

 

[-SD-]

Superdave, did you just ask Strangebrew to show you his tits?

You are the thread starter and you were asking for advice, therefore I made a joke to you.

 

[Becoming]

Regarding your first point.......

I agree that kids need to learn to deal with awkward situations. However you seem to be advocating a sink or swim policy. Nobody is saying have somebody step in to do all of the hard work.........we are just saying give the girl some support. IMO it would be wrong for the 'authorities' to do the whole thing.......that leaves the girl wide open in the future.

I think support from parents/friends is best- I agree she should get support- and in light of how everything worked out, I think the best possible happened...

Second point: you cant be there all of the time. Even if you were, even a 260lber like yourself cant handle every situation in his own. What happens when you cant handle the situation alone?

I know I can't be there all the time.... As far as the place goes, it is just material... I don't really care about it...

As far as the wife goes, if I am not there I will find them, no matter what it takes... and if I am there, I don't care what the situation is.. they better kill me before I have a chance, because I won't be giving them one...

 

[Imnotdutch]

I suspect that we were both trying to express similar opinions with regards to the girl........we just didnt communicate them well.

So what happens when the bad guys kill you and then go looking for your wife again?? Hardly solves the problem does it?

I think support from parents/friends is best- I agree she should get support- and in light of how everything worked out, I think the best possible happened...



I know I can't be there all the time.... As far as the place goes, it is just material... I don't really care about it...

As far as the wife goes, if I am not there I will find them, no matter what it takes... and if I am there, I don't care what the situation is.. they better kill me before I have a chance, because I won't be giving them one...

 

[Becoming]

I suspect that we were both trying to express similar opinions with regards to the girl........we just didnt communicate them well.

Maybe so- either way- I am open always to discussion of ideas, unlike other peeps on the board

So what happens when the bad guys kill you and then go looking for your wife again?? Hardly solves the problem does it?

Hopefully I will have at least had a chance to taken some of them with me, and maybe an eye or two for good measure.... and she will have had a chance to get away... I would feel bad that I am not around for her, but I would always make that same decision..

I hear what you are saying- but it is just the way I am about such things, there really is no choice for as far as I am concerned...

BTW- she hits pretty damn hard for a girl LOL

 

[Imnotdutch]

Seeing as we have decided to be all grownup I'll apologise for calling you a dumbass


I understand why you would react that way........hell I've done that in the not so distant past. However, I did get the authorities involved at the first opportunity. I figure I aint big enough to take on the whole world........so might as well make ful use of the people who are there to help.

Maybe so- either way- I am open always to discussion of ideas, unlike other peeps on the board



Hopefully I will have at least had a chance to taken some of them with me, and maybe an eye or two for good measure.... and she will have had a chance to get away... I would feel bad that I am not around for her, but I would always make that same decision..

I hear what you are saying- but it is just the way I am about such things, there really is no choice for as far as I am concerned...

BTW- she hits pretty damn hard for a girl LOL

 

[red_evil]

2Shy...i'm glad things worked out as well as they did for you and your daughter. evidently, my original post was seen as advice to have your daughter rat on her bully. my intention was simply to share with you, my knowledge regarding school harassment policies. it sounds like your administrators have a firm grasp on the situation. and, you have begun the proper paper trail to ensure your daughter's best interests, if push comes to shove.

nicely done.....