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orals for hrt
- Thread starter clozto50
- Start date
Proviron will help with libido (at 125mg I believe) pretty much but that is not HRT. Enventually you will have to up the dose as your body will adjut to it. Wintrol pill form eventually (I would assume) be harsh on the liver, better to inject. and if youre injecting, inject Test done in a minute and good to go.
d-bol naps ... 5 mgs per each of three main meals.
BUT ... hrt is forever and the strain on the liver over the years could be huge.
I am very content with a bio-ident compound applied every day in the morning after a shower. Blood test numbers say it is very effective.
Yo d-rson I OWN A REJUVENATION CLINIC , you want to talk about what I know! Shit people ger on here who dont know crap and want to try and show how smart they really aren'nt! Simply asking if anyone has tried very low dose orals for en extended period of time. O f course I know all the problems associated with long term HEAVY oral use.
d_rson
New member
Yes, and alot of people are in a particular field and think they know more than they do.
HRT is LONG term treatment. If you really did any research you would know that there are NO orals that would represent decent HRT that are safe at efficable dosages for any length of time (with the exception of Andriol, but it's dosage, cost and questionable effects make it a very poor idea).
So what compounds were YOU thinking for an HRT run?
The R in TRT/HRT is for replacement and orals do not replace your bodies own testosterone. Exo Testosterone replaces testosterone. On that same line of thought replacement means extended or forever, not a cycle. Running orals forever is not a good idea. That being said, depending on symptoms, some clinics will prescribe the use of orals for specific periods of your TRT/HRT.
We have an endo and a compounding pharmacist working for us so we are well infomed. We have done blood tests after 3 months of proviron ( masterolone ) with no significant change in liver function or anything else. This was with 50 mg per day. Im asking if anybody has done this for a longer period of time? Yes I understand the R in replacement as with any exogenous testosterone or other compound which are ALL derived from testosterone.
Key word "derived", hell anti-venom is derived from venom does that mean its safe or a replacement for?
d_rson
New member
Proviron is NOT methylated, it is easy on the liver. Bad example. No offense, you should know this if you own a Rejuv house. And proviron is a support compound which loses its effectiveness over time, it is not a replacement for testosterone - it does not feature the attributes one expects from replacement therapy. It is also a DHT. Same with Winny. You're going to do HRT with a DHT compound.
Of course AAS is derived from test, but that means jack. A derivative may or may not behave as the original, in fact it may be the opposite. True HRT is base testosterone. Some houses add other compounds to this, such as low deca, or proviron, and sometimes add short peroids of orals for specific reasons.
Ok lets think about this what does TRT/HRT really do? Its to restore several of the natural functions that our own testosterone normally would (low libido, energy,muscle wasting to a point general outlook on life). So tell me other than possible liver problems and I say possible what is the difference from test injections,test cream or orals. Proviron does all this as does adriol (test undecanoate) which schering is actually manufacturing in other countries for trt. So maybe before regurgitating something we read or heard as fact we should make our own in depth study! For example the general public thinks anybody who uses sreoids will either get roid rage or brain cancer,which we know is totally wrong. If anyone should realize that things are not always what they seem to be it is us!! Im not totally sold on long term oral use but what my original question was has anybody done orals for a long period? We have guys who hate needles and the cream is expensive and some guys have skin irritation so this is why we are doing our research. Remember Im talking about trt doses which are very small compared to cycle doses. Show me some love guys we are on the same side.LOL!
d_rson
New member
Again, other than andriol, what oral actually does everything testosterone does, and nothing negative that test does not? Proviron - no it's a DHT and wears off over time and is an anti-estrogen. Winstrol? No, it's a DHT and causes joint pain, is an anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin, and liver toxic over peroids of time (proven in actual use for muscle wasting). Dbol? Closer, but it readily converts to estrogen and causes bloat even at low dose. Drol? Tbol? Var?
I understand your point, but if it's NOT test, it won't replace test. If you can think of an oral that behaves as test does, and does not do other things that someone on HRT would not want (bloat, reduced estrogen), etc, post it. Also keep in mind that these things would further supress what natural test there is, and could completely shut test production down, so if these compounds do not replace test completely, the person will be further lacking.
I understand your point, but if it's NOT test, it won't replace test. If you can think of an oral that behaves as test does, and does not do other things that someone on HRT would not want (bloat, reduced estrogen), etc, post it. Also keep in mind that these things would further supress what natural test there is, and could completely shut test production down, so if these compounds do not replace test completely, the person will be further lacking.
As I see it all test no matter what the delivery will shut down natural test but we really are not concerned about that since test levels are really low anyway. Also with any drug your body will build up a tolerance to it over time. This is another reason we are looking at different compounds,lets say Proviron for 3 to 6 months then Andriol 3 to 6 months. Yes you may still have to take aromidex but with the low dose oral you may not get much estrogen sides. I find it strange that schering would market this drug if it was so toxic to the liver,we have not even talked about primo. Also the real question is how toxic these orals will be long term,but having low test can have many other health ramifications also. Hey just throwing things out to see if anybody has done this. Also I believe blue cross is no longer paying for test cream,and its quite expensive so guys who wont pin themslves or have someone do it may just say screw it.
d_rson
New member
I would imagine not all of your patients are completely shutdown. And you keep refering to ALL AAS as being test, and IT IS NOT. Please get that straight. Testosterone is the ONLY one that is Test. Anadrol, Dbol, tbol, winny, etc, are NOT test.
Except for what the body expects - test.
Yeah, that would be great - subject your patients to all different side effects and differing performance.
The diseases/conditions that these drugs are designed for are much worse than worries of liver problems, and the patients are constantly monitored AND cycled on and off the drugs.
Primo is a DHB, and while it is a great addition to TRT, it's not TRT.
HRT/TRT is nothing new, so you don't think this has been discussed in detail a million times? There is no equitable replacement for Testosterone replacement except for some form of testosterone. The most current research is in SARMS, but that's still a ways away, because even SARMS are still not replacing all the aspects lost when test is low.
The solution for that is Test Undecaonate. 4 shots a year. If they can't take 4 shots a year, then it must not be that important to them.
lincolnsvo
New member
Safe oral HRT...something we've all wondered about, I'm sure.
In an old clinical study, they were testing cypionate many years ago and gave the subjects an oral version of cyp, with no sides. But I've never seen anything about it since.
Yeah, the brain cancer thing...thanks to the singular death of Lyle Alzado. Good grief! Hell back then they were getting HGH from cadavers and later discovered it caused brain tumors. "whoops, sorry, that cadaver had already been pumped with formaldehyde. You didn't inject that did you?"
But you don't hear that part reported. But even if not, he could've just been someone in sports who developed brain cancer. My Step-mom died from brain cancer...she bragged about not needing much sleep, was obese, and ate like shit...I think that's a better case for likely development.
In an old clinical study, they were testing cypionate many years ago and gave the subjects an oral version of cyp, with no sides. But I've never seen anything about it since.
Yeah, the brain cancer thing...thanks to the singular death of Lyle Alzado. Good grief! Hell back then they were getting HGH from cadavers and later discovered it caused brain tumors. "whoops, sorry, that cadaver had already been pumped with formaldehyde. You didn't inject that did you?"
But you don't hear that part reported. But even if not, he could've just been someone in sports who developed brain cancer. My Step-mom died from brain cancer...she bragged about not needing much sleep, was obese, and ate like shit...I think that's a better case for likely development.
TU would be the bomb for TRT, too bad out FDA is so anal and holding up approval doing to the rare case of an oil embolism. Whats strange is I would think the risk of an oil embolism would be the same for any oil based AAS. Sounds like the FDA is just jacking around the maker on this one.
So after further study and threads from other boards I do believe oral TRT is possible. Yes it may stress the liver a little but with a good dose of milk thistle it should be fine(remember we are talking TRT doses not cycle), Hey nothing is perfect, actually orals have an advantage over injectibles in that they have a more even delivery without the highs and lows. Creams are expensive with skin irritation and possible transfer to your partner.. Bayer Schering uses Proviron and Andriol in other countries for TRT for years .We are using Nebido( test un) and it seems to work well and yes hopefully the US will allow it but my last info was that for now its not. Maybe becuase you take 1000 mg in a 4cc shot at one time is the reason. We are in the Dominican Republic an its all good here!!
XMAN.
New member
d_rson
New member
Hilarious. But you can't answer my question. Other than Andriol, which requires constant dosage patterns during the day for stable blood levels - and it's absorbtion rate is inconsistant - other than andriol, what oral TRT are you thinking? I'd be interested in hearing why you think such oral equates to replacement testosterone.
And are you aware that liver toxicity is NOT so much about the amount of the dosage, but the LENGTH of time on ANY dose. The liver toxcity studies YOU can find on the net are in regards to musle wasting, low dose replacement therapy.
And your comment about oral being more blood stable? Nope. You have to consistently take orals 2-3 times per day, MINIMUM, to get halfway stable levels. Oral half lifes are in hours, not days like injectables, and injectables have ESTERS on them that allow them to be slowly released into the system more evenly. Orals PEAK and DROP OFF.
You haven't actually done your research. You probably found some board where idiots answered your question the way YOU wanted to hear it (ie, wrong). I would think your doctor at your clinic would be explaining these things to you.
d_rson
New member
Curious, enlighten me.
Also, How many HRT clinics are there around the world? How many are doing oral only therapy. You're answer is right there.
You can argue the point all day long, fact is it would be AWESOME if there was a legitimate and easy oral route to TRT. They tried - methyltestosterone. However, while methylT IS testosterone with the simple modification of a methyl group added, IT even is nothing like testosterone. Test is test, and only test is test. Noone has had success in replicating what test does. Are you also forgetting that it must be test for TRT to enable a physiological balance in the body, as test converts to other hormones and provides other actions down stream? You will not have any of that balance with something other than test.
Again, test derivatives are NOT (in most cases, not even close to being) test.
Well how is it that the FDA I believe has permitted oral test lonzenges to be used for TRT? I never said we should use other hormones for TRT other than major pharmacuitical companies in other countrires are.As far as daily doses I do believe creams need to be applied at least twice a day. And really if lets say Proviron helps with labido muscle wasting and general out look on life it sounds about like what testosterone does.
d_rson
New member
Test lonzenges suck. Poor, inaccurate delivery. FDA approved? I would't put stock in the fact that if the FDA approves it, it works.
Proviron helps with libido, does nothing for muscle wasting, and is a DHT, not a test, and can cause aggression in some users. It wears off after about 8-10 weeks and must be increased. It provides non of the balance in the body, and actually blocks estrogen. It's not near a substitute for test for TRT.
XMAN.
New member
agreed , that's y companies r researching and testing for longer esters for injectables to minimize the shot frequencies but not investing in oral forms of test anymore the old drugs like andriol failed to replace injectable test.
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