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opinions on chiopractor

J

jhweatherby

New member
I know this is probably where ishouldnt post this but this is where i spend most of my time when im the boards. So whats the general census? I havent been to one in years but i feel like i need to go to get realigned, but i heard once you start going you have to keep going? Any way i would like to hear what my bros opinions are.
 
Make sure the chiropractic is specific and not just a bone cracker. Everyone should be under straight/specific chiropractic care. Chiropractors are doctors of the nervous system and there mission is to restore the flow of mental impulses throughout the body so everything is functioning at 100%. Find an upper-cervical or Gonstead practitioner that actually uses instrumentation. One thing to look out for: Typically chiros who offer many other modalities (massage,physical therapy,acupuncture,etc..) are the ones that are not good.
 
#1 i tryed everything for my lower back, accupunture, physio, NSAIDs .. but chiro actaully fixed the prob, went for 14 months 3 times a week ..probably dropped over 4 gs but i had x-rays done every 3 months to actually see the difference.. theres a lot of diff opinions on it.. but like ufc22 said.. u gotta find a good one... it actually makes u feel really healthy when ur nervous system flows well....
 
I don't buy into chiro's tbh... I went to one years ago... and after probably 6-7 an I still wasn't seeing any improvement... though it did seem to feel better for the rest of the afternoon.... and that was about it!! he kept saying that "some treatments take months"... and that meant ALOT of money going in his pocket!! finally my GF's sister caught wind of it and offered me some free massages and she shared an office with an accupunturist and with that combo the problem cleared right up, would only have to go every few weeks when it got bad and then after a few visits it was done!!
 
I think they have some benefits, but I think they are a scam. Great front for insurance fraud or getting unwarranted disability pay though.
 
not to bust the happy bubble here but they aren't Dr.'s they don't have DEA registration number like Board Certified medical Dr.'s to Prescribe Meds And the only way they have gotten and kind of legitimacy is because the "REAL" MD's don't want a raise in malpractice insurance when they misdiagnose a soft tissue injury.So the chiropractor's get the nod from the auto insurance industry to keep then number one cause of STI from becoming the next news story on CNN . See if your not a Certified Doctor (AMA) the government has no need to regulate or interfere with them thus no numbers get reported as most of the time if they do it's a low balled number. And then the Insurance industry as no reason to justify there adsorbent rates. No real numbers to base it upon. No government control...
FMT
 
jhweatherby said:
I know this is probably where ishouldnt post this but this is where i spend most of my time when im the boards. So whats the general census? I havent been to one in years but i feel like i need to go to get realigned, but i heard once you start going you have to keep going? Any way i would like to hear what my bros opinions are.
Click to expand...

I think that everybody would benefit from getting their spines checked by a chiropractor (I may have a biased opinion on this as I am a Chiropractor myself).

You mentioned that "once you start going you have to keep going", that is not true at all. Most people continue to get Wellness care (similar to Denistry in philosphy) becasue they realize how much better they function, feel with a properly functioning nervous system.

Good points UFC22 and Tin2
 
make sure he/she is a SPORTS RELATED CHIRO....they are better for athletes....regular chiro just get neck/law suit clientel and dont do shit for you but waste your time!!
 
BigCracker said:
I think they have some benefits, but I think they are a scam. Great front for insurance fraud or getting unwarranted disability pay though.
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exactly. They are known as huge overbillers. California department of insurance has a very active fraud sting going on right now to crack down on their bullshit.

that being said. If I am in pain, I will see a voodoo practitioner if it fixes my back. Chiropractics has helped me in the past.
 
6FULLMETALTRUCKIE9 said:
not to bust the happy bubble here but they aren't Dr.'s they don't have DEA registration number like Board Certified medical Dr.'s to Prescribe Meds And the only way they have gotten and kind of legitimacy is because the "REAL" MD's don't want a raise in malpractice insurance when they misdiagnose a soft tissue injury.So the chiropractor's get the nod from the auto insurance industry to keep then number one cause of STI from becoming the next news story on CNN . See if your not a Certified Doctor (AMA) the government has no need to regulate or interfere with them thus no numbers get reported as most of the time if they do it's a low balled number. And then the Insurance industry as no reason to justify there adsorbent rates. No real numbers to base it upon. No government control...
FMT
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Sounds a little hostile, jealous... I am a "Doctor" of Chiropractic, D.C.
To educate you a little, the reason Chiropractors do not have DEA reg. numbers (drug enforcement agency) is that they do not want them. The philosphy of chiropractic is not to prescribe drugs and cover up symptoms but to uncover the cause of the health condition.

By pushing drugs (meds) just to cover your bodies warning signs makes no sense. By the time your body becomes symptomatic it is telling you something is wrong. Why would you want to take a drug to make your body think that it is not having that symptom? That is all that meds usually do, is they cover your bodies important warning signs (and casue a host of side effects, usually more problematic than the original symptom).
 
I did years of rep. inj. repairs, NMT, myofascial release, AIS, and through the years, my clients went to Chiros, because the heard that chiros could fix alot of stuff.

All but a few came back to me complaining that the chiro did not do anything for them, that they would get cracked, feel great for a couple days or a week, and then wham, back to the same pain.

I do not think that chiros treatments hold well, since most problems come from strained muscles, and the muscles have to be aligned and the tightness or knots taken out and straightend out. if a muscle is tight, no matter how many adjustments a chiro makes, the muscle that is tight will miss align the bones again.
 
After many many years, several chiro's, I've given up on them totally.

I am now going to try vax-d spinal decompression. It's non invasive and in theory it should work.

It is also FDA approved and they report (their stats) over 75% success rate.

Just google vax-d and you'll see what I mean.
 
6FULLMETALTRUCKIE9 said:
not to bust the happy bubble here but they aren't Dr.'s they don't have DEA registration number like Board Certified medical Dr.'s to Prescribe Meds And the only way they have gotten and kind of legitimacy is because the "REAL" MD's don't want a raise in malpractice insurance when they misdiagnose a soft tissue injury.So the chiropractor's get the nod from the auto insurance industry to keep then number one cause of STI from becoming the next news story on CNN . See if your not a Certified Doctor (AMA) the government has no need to regulate or interfere with them thus no numbers get reported as most of the time if they do it's a low balled number. And then the Insurance industry as no reason to justify there adsorbent rates. No real numbers to base it upon. No government control...
FMT
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No chiropractors are not MD's therefore they don't have a DEA license. Chiro's are Doctors of Chiropractic they all go to an accredited college. Chiro's Have absolutely nothing to do with MD and malpractice. Where in the name of all that is sacred do you get your info?
 
"The minimum prerequisite for enrollment in a chiropractic college set forth by the CCE is 90 semester hours, and the minimum cumulative GPA for a student entering is 2.50."

Pretty high standards to get into a "doctor's" program.
 
jcdc71 said:
Sounds a little hostile, jealous... I am a "Doctor" of Chiropractic, D.C.
To educate you a little, the reason Chiropractors do not have DEA reg. numbers (drug enforcement agency) is that they do not want them. The philosphy of chiropractic is not to prescribe drugs and cover up symptoms but to uncover the cause of the health condition.

By pushing drugs (meds) just to cover your bodies warning signs makes no sense. By the time your body becomes symptomatic it is telling you something is wrong. Why would you want to take a drug to make your body think that it is not having that symptom? That is all that meds usually do, is they cover your bodies important warning signs (and casue a host of side effects, usually more problematic than the original symptom).
Click to expand...
OK, with all do respect. Chiropractors, in general, would love the ability to prescribe. The fact is that chiropractors have what essentially amounts to a graduate degree.
To say that they wouldnt want the ability to prescribe medicine is analogous to the broke guy that says he would never want a ferrari. The fact is that because they dont have the educational background they stick to what they are allowed to use as a remedy. I have spent thousands of dollars on chiropractors. Alot of them are quacks. I went to a guy that does "muscle testing" (applied kinesiology). In this method they touch a certain part of your body with one hand and test to see if the strength of your arm is reduced...(simplified explanation).. Who knows if it is legitimate or not. I just know that they prey on those in desperate need of help or "optimal health."
Now this is where it gets good. The same DC that I went to for applied kinesiology also told me that in order to attain optimal wellness that I needed to have a cocyx adjustment. (This is embarassing, but I will continue.) This is a procedure wherein the Chiropractor put on a rubber glove, lubed up his finger, and stuck it in my ass. I did not feel anything adjust. But, I sure felt tricked and violated by a perv.
 
They can help with alignment and pain. But it is really undetermined if it helps with energy flow and all that.

The thing is many are "practice builders." That is they need to see you three times per week, then two, then 1, then every other week, then once per month. But it is the 3x per week that kills you. It is not necessary to the extent that they would like you to believe.

If you are in pain, well ok. But otherwise go 2 times per week for 2 weeks and then once per week for a month or so. That should be enough to start holding the proper alignment for your spine. Then you can start going once every two weeks etc or if you have an accident or hurt yourself then pop in earlier.

But some are a scam having you come that many times at like $40 an adjustment.
 
stewfoo said:
OK, with all do respect. Chiropractors, in general, would love the ability to prescribe. The fact is that chiropractors have what essentially amounts to a graduate degree.
To say that they wouldnt want the ability to prescribe medicine is analogous to the broke guy that says he would never want a ferrari. The fact is that because they dont have the educational background they stick to what they are allowed to use as a remedy.

I do not personally know of one Chiropractor (myself included) that would "love the ability to prescribe". It is not congruent with the philosphy of the profession.

In fact, chiropractors have more hours of classroom education than their medical counterparts. As part of their education, chiropractic students also complete a residency working with real patients in a clinical setting, supervised by licensed doctors of chiropractic. Once chiropractic students graduate, they have to pass four sets of national board exams as well as state board exams in the states where they want to practice.

Just like medical doctors, chiropractors are professionals that are subject to the same type of testing procedures, licensing and monitoring by state and national peer-reviewed boards. Federal and state programs, such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Workers' Compensations programs cover chiropractic care, and all federal agencies accept sick-leave certificates signed by doctors of chiropractic. Chiropractors are also commissioned as officers in the military.

The biggest difference between chiropractors and medical doctors lies not in their level of education, but in their preferred method of caring for people. Medical doctors are trained in the use of medicines (chemicals that affect your internal biochemistry) and surgery. Consequently, if you have a chemical problem, such as diabetes, hypothyroidism, or an infection, medical doctors can be very helpful. However, if your problem is that your spine is mis-aligned or you have soft tissue damage causing pain, there is no chemical in existence that can fix it. You need a physical solution to correct a physical problem. That is where chiropractic really shines. Chiropractors provide physical solutions -- adjustments, exercises, stretches, muscle therapy -- to help the body heal from conditions that are physical in origin, such as back pain, muscle spasms, headaches, and poor posture. Another distinction is the fact that it is completely appropriate to receive chiropractic care even if you do not have symptoms. Unlike standard medical doctors, whom you visit when you have a symptom to be treated, chiropractors offer adjustments to improve spinal alignment and overall well-being before symptoms develop.
Click to expand...
 
Claims like this are why I stay away!!!

Learn How To Fight-Off Everything From The Common Cold And Flu Bug To Cancer, Heart Disease and Stroke…


Without Polluting Your Body With Drugs Or Torturing Yourself With Painful Surgery, Humiliating Therapy, and Intrusive Tests

To understand how our body fights off the germs, viruses, and diseases it encounters everyday you need to understand when and why your body gets sick. And that requires a quick biology lesson.

As you know, your spinal cord is your brain’s tail. It communicates – constantly – to every organ and cell in your body through the nerves that extend from it. That’s how your body moves, grows, and heals. Your organs and cells then send messages back to your brain.

The Easiest Health Problem to Overcome... And You Encounter it Every Day!

The problem is your spine takes a beating daily.
Sometimes it’s minor – a trip or stumble. Sometimes it’s severe –
car accidents or sporting injuries. But these daily bumps and twists hinder the communication between your brain and body because they misalign your spine. And then it’s your health that suffers because the spine now blurs, weakens, and/or blocks the “back
and forth” communication between your brain and your body.

Here’s the good news: When you improve your brain’s “back and forth” communication your body is better able to fight off the sickness and disease it encounters every day. Through chiropractic care you can keep your spine aligned and your body communicating at its best. Your health will improve now and you’ll avoid future health problems – without toxic drugs, painful surgeries, humiliating therapies, or intrusive tests!

If you’re serious about your health – for now and later – you need to learn more about the health power of your spine. I would like to send you a Free copy of my report, "What Everyone Needs to Know About Fighting Sickness and Disease.”
 
I have to say that seeing chiropractors helped me a great deal... for years, I've battled with impinged shoulders, impinged cervical spine, and even a straightening of the spine... my general practitioner sent me to an orthopedic surgeon...after many sets of MRI's, he sent me to a PT... a couple years later and I was still suffering... I went back to the Orthopedic surgeon and he said my last resorts were either cortisone shots or surgery.... pretty typical... I said no thanks.

I started seeing several chiropractors (until I found one I liked)... and I have to say I've seen a huge improvement...less overall pain.... better flexibility... less headaches. Sure I had to buy into the frequent visits at first.... but now I'm on a maintenace plan of twice a month, and my insurance covers it fully. Wouldn't you see any other doctor regularly? How is this any different? As for putting in the time, I had a friend who studied to be a chiro...believe me, it was rigorous.

If nothing else, I'm still seeing a chiro because I have better flexibility/movement and I'm alot less prone to injury now. Plus, I'm not having to depend on pain-killers, muscle-relaxants, shots, etc. That's good enough reasons for me to go.
 
Look, I think that chiropractics has its place. But, the truth is that billing practices of that profession are abhorrent. For example, If I were to walk into a chiropractor's office and ask for an adjustment, there would usually be a $35-$50 charge for the visit. If I were to use insurance, they would pick 10 CPT codes for the same procedure and bill insurance $400. How is this right?

And please dont continue on with the "In fact, chiropractors have more hours of classroom education than their medical counterparts. ...." You are being misleading with semantics here. To Say that they are even in the same educational ballpark as MD's is a retarded statement.

Look, I am not here to say that chiropractics doesnt work. I just think that they need to focus more on ethical practices..
 
stewfoo said:
Look, I think that chiropractics has its place. But, the truth is that billing practices of that profession are abhorrent. For example, If I were to walk into a chiropractor's office and ask for an adjustment, there would usually be a $35-$50 charge for the visit. If I were to use insurance, they would pick 10 CPT codes for the same procedure and bill insurance $400. How is this right?

And please dont continue on with the "In fact, chiropractors have more hours of classroom education than their medical counterparts. ...." You are being misleading with semantics here. To Say that they are even in the same educational ballpark as MD's is a retarded statement.

Look, I am not here to say that chiropractics doesnt work. I just think that they need to focus more on ethical practices..
Click to expand...



So all Chiropractors need more focus on their ethical practices??? What a general blanket ignorant statement. There are bad apples in every profession.

As far as your "retarded statement" here is some rebutal info you may find interesting...

Chiropractors go through an immense amount of schooling to recieve a "Doctor of Chiropractic" degree (also known as a D.C.). Their collegiate agenda is as follows:
- Graduate from a four year college.
- Completing at least two years undergraduate study, with a focus on the sciences.
- Four years of Chiropractic Education.
- Take mandatory internships.
- At least 900 hours of work in a Chiropractic Clinic.
- After graduating, pass a written and oral board exams, at national and state levels.

A Chiropractor may opt to choose to advance their degree in an area of specialty.
These areas include: Chiropractic neurology, radiology, sports medicine, as well as many other fields

This chart shows the number of hours served under study by Chiropractic students and Medical students.



Chiropractic Student Hours Class Description Medical Student Hours
520 Anatomy 508
420 Physiology 326
271 Pathology 335
300 Chemistry 325
114 Bacteriology 130
370 Diagnosis 374
320 Neurology 112
217 X-Ray 148
65 Psychiatry 144
65 Obstetrics & Gynecology 198
225 Orthopedics 156
2,887 Total Hours 2,756
1,598 Specialty Courses 1,492
4,485 Entire Total Hours 4,248
 
Blackthunder, clearly you're ignorant on the subject. Chiropractic specializes in neuro-musculo skeletal problems ie problems with the nervous system, muscles, and bones. Where does cancer come into that? The answer is it doesn't. Chiropractic can help with the symptoms of the cancer but a MD is needed for the chemotherapy to destroy the cancer cells.

There's a place for MDs and a place for chiros. When there's a bad medical doctor, people say that oh it's just him, it's not the field; just one bad doctor. However if there's a bad chiropractor, people say that's the profession, a bunch of quacks. If you think about it, does that make sense?
Also before you comment on the education of a chiropractor, try sitting in on one of their classes. They have to learn every muscle, and major artery, vein, and nerve in the body. So where is their education inferior?
You need to do a little research on the subject and stop repeating what you've heard in the past because frankly it doesn't hold true.

And as for wanting to prescribe pills, like it's been said it's completely against the chiropractic philosophy. The biggest thing is that the body has the ability to heal itself, and if it's functioning correctly it should. Meds alter that, plain and simple.
 
jcdc71 said:
stewfoo said:
OK, with all do respect. Chiropractors, in general, would love the ability to prescribe. The fact is that chiropractors have what essentially amounts to a graduate degree.
To say that they wouldnt want the ability to prescribe medicine is analogous to the broke guy that says he would never want a ferrari. The fact is that because they dont have the educational background they stick to what they are allowed to use as a remedy.

I do not personally know of one Chiropractor (myself included) that would "love the ability to prescribe". It is not congruent with the philosphy of the profession.

In fact, chiropractors have more hours of classroom education than their medical counterparts. As part of their education, chiropractic students also complete a residency working with real patients in a clinical setting, supervised by licensed doctors of chiropractic. Once chiropractic students graduate, they have to pass four sets of national board exams as well as state board exams in the states where they want to practice.

Just like medical doctors, chiropractors are professionals that are subject to the same type of testing procedures, licensing and monitoring by state and national peer-reviewed boards. Federal and state programs, such as Medicare, Medicaid, and Workers' Compensations programs cover chiropractic care, and all federal agencies accept sick-leave certificates signed by doctors of chiropractic. Chiropractors are also commissioned as officers in the military.

The biggest difference between chiropractors and medical doctors lies not in their level of education, but in their preferred method of caring for people. Medical doctors are trained in the use of medicines (chemicals that affect your internal biochemistry) and surgery. Consequently, if you have a chemical problem, such as diabetes, hypothyroidism, or an infection, medical doctors can be very helpful. However, if your problem is that your spine is mis-aligned or you have soft tissue damage causing pain, there is no chemical in existence that can fix it. You need a physical solution to correct a physical problem. That is where chiropractic really shines. Chiropractors provide physical solutions -- adjustments, exercises, stretches, muscle therapy -- to help the body heal from conditions that are physical in origin, such as back pain, muscle spasms, headaches, and poor posture. Another distinction is the fact that it is completely appropriate to receive chiropractic care even if you do not have symptoms. Unlike standard medical doctors, whom you visit when you have a symptom to be treated, chiropractors offer adjustments to improve spinal alignment and overall well-being before symptoms develop.
Click to expand...

Medicare covers chiropractic treatment?? I talked to a few chiropractors and none of them accepts medicare, but i heard there was a particular form you can fill out and turn in to medicare and they may reimburse you? Do you know where I can find this online or if you have any advice on how to get my insurance to cover chiropractic treatment? I don't really visit medical doctors as I too don't believe in the "cover up your symptoms band-aid approach" that meds offer.

It's kinda unexpected though to find a chiro in an steroids forum since my impression of chiros is that they won't even take a tylenol pill let alone deca, nolvadex, testosterone, etc haha. :)
Click to expand...
 
justmarvin said:
Medicare covers chiropractic treatment?? I talked to a few chiropractors and none of them accepts medicare, but i heard there was a particular form you can fill out and turn in to medicare and they may reimburse you? Do you know where I can find this online or if you have any advice on how to get my insurance to cover chiropractic treatment? I don't really visit medical doctors as I too don't believe in the "cover up your symptoms band-aid approach" that meds offer.

It's kinda unexpected though to find a chiro in an steroids forum since my impression of chiros is that they won't even take a tylenol pill let alone Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , nolvadex, testosterone, etc haha. :)
Click to expand...
SEE HOW FUNNY IT IS WITH THESE MEMBERS WHO ARE SAYING THEY ARE CHIRO'S HERE ON A SITE ABOUT CHEMICAL ENHANCEMENT , AND THEY TALK OF PRIDE IN THIS PROFESSION HA .GEE NO WONDER THEY HAVE SUCH A STAINED REP WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE. AND AS FOR THE MEDCAIDE PAYING FOR CHIRO SVC . IF YOUR REGULAR ND WRITE A REFERAL THAT IT'S A MEDICAL NEED THEY WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR THE FEES YOU PAY UP FRONT MINUS YOUR CO PAY AND ANY OTHER INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE SECONDLY . AS FOR ME I HAD A VERY BAD TIME WITH A CHIRO THAT LEFT ME WORSE OFF THEN I WAS . IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FACT I WAS A MINOR WHEN IT HAPPEN I WOULD OF SUED HIS ASS OFF. SEEMS THIS THREAD IS COMING DOWN TO WHO'S GOT BETTER CREDIT TO SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC. AFTER OVER 20 YEARS OF BEING A FIREMAN I'VE SEEN IT ALL SEEN ACCIDENT SET UPS ACCIDENTS THAT PEOPLE DIED IN AND SIMPLE FENDER BENDERS THAT THE WHOLE CALL LOAD WINDS UP NEEDING MEDICAL ( THE OUCH MY NECK HURTS CROWED) CARE. I THINK THE MOST FUN I'VE HAD WAS TAPING A DRUNK TO A BACK BOARD THEN HAVING THE COPS CUFF HIM TO THE STRETCHER FOR DWI AND GOOD MEASURES . IF THESE SO CALLED DOC'S HAD TO EVEN REPORT HALF OF THEIR CLAIM THE NSTB WOULD ENACT MUCH BETTER DRIVING AND SAFETY REGULATIONS LIKE IN GERMANY WHERE SOFT TISSUE INJURIES AREN'T RAMPANT AS THEY ARE HERE IN THE STATES. FMT
 
6fullmetal...well to be fair, the chiros on the board of course weigh the cons and pros of anabolic androgenic steroids use and, as most people here have done, the pros weigh out more in the end for them personally to consider anabolic androgenic steroids which again is a personal choice. This should not discredit someone's profession since again this is a personal choice and one that requires much research and not taken naively. Plus to build an argument to try and discredit someone based on something like that would be ad hominem, straw man, or any other FALLACY arguments which don't hold up.

But, thanks for the info on how to get reimbursed. Sorry about what happened to you in the past, not sure exactly what, but obviously wasn't good. But you know the old saying "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater." Though your experience with your chiro wasn't great, there are many more others who have benefited from the chiro from what I see. Plus, the same could be said with orthodox medical doctors, there are many patients who actually get worse from when they started off as, and many screw ups from pharmacies / docs that kill patients, so with that argument of people being left off worse than when they started in regards to chiro vs. med doctor, you just put them in the same boat...though i think the mortality death rates are higher with the pharmaceutical and medical industry than with chiros, so there's something to leave you with.

JM
 
jhweatherby said:
I know this is probably where ishouldnt post this but this is where i spend most of my time when im the boards. So whats the general census? I havent been to one in years but i feel like i need to go to get realigned, but i heard once you start going you have to keep going? Any way i would like to hear what my bros opinions are.
Click to expand...
I love them..
 
ru35 said:
Blackthunder, clearly you're ignorant on the subject. Chiropractic specializes in neuro-musculo skeletal problems ie problems with the nervous system, muscles, and bones. Where does cancer come into that? The answer is it doesn't. Chiropractic can help with the symptoms of the cancer but a MD is needed for the chemotherapy to destroy the cancer cells.


This is taken from a chiropractic website:

"Learn How To Fight-Off Everything From The Common Cold And Flu Bug To Cancer, Heart Disease and Stroke…"

Again, making claims like that makes me stay away.
Click to expand...
 
stewfoo said:
Look, I think that chiropractics has its place. But, the truth is that billing practices of that profession are abhorrent. For example, If I were to walk into a chiropractor's office and ask for an adjustment, there would usually be a $35-$50 charge for the visit. If I were to use insurance, they would pick 10 CPT codes for the same procedure and bill insurance $400. How is this right?
Click to expand...

and you're saying that there aren't doctors that do the same thing? Sorry, I've delt with enough doctors over the years to not equate them to the word "ethical"
 
there are some good points in this thread. a couple of things i would like to highlight.

first off just because you have had a bad experience from a chiropractor, or whatever, you should not write off the whole profession, don't throw out the good furniture with the bad

regarding manipulation as a treatment this is something that more and more healthcare professionals are wanting to offer and do offer ... i.e. osteopaths, and P.T.s, as a matter of fact it is in the stated objectives of the PT profession to win the legal "right" to perform level 5 mobilization techniques (i.e. adjust like a chiropractor) in all 50 states

response to treatments varies based on the condition and diagnosis, and if the condition is chronic or acute, and the patients ability to generate an adaptive response. since the treatments are physical in nature one way to think about it is almost like working out. how long will it take for me to get back in shape? it depends how far out of shape you are to start. also some people take many months and that is just the way it is. so how could a doctor ethically give up on a patient when the treatments are still helping? progress can be measured different ways ... not getting worse can be a good thing ... if it keeps somebody out of surgery or off drugs

unfortunately chiropractic as a profession does not have its act together as well as other healthcare professions and the divisions within the profession have hurt them and prevented them from moving forward. although chiropractic care is covered by most insurances this coverage is something of a joke in its actual implementation under most plans and the profession would probably be better served walking away from insurance, much like dentists have.

chiropractic coverage in most insurance plans is very limited and for a chiropractor to be a "provider" in such plans is even more limiting, to both the patient and the chiropractor - over time this reduces the quality of chiropractic care to the insurance patient. when the economics of being an insurance provider require that a chiropractor see 10 patients an hour (i.e. for a $25-30 reimbursement rate) with a staff of 4-5 people just to handle the paperwork hassles. and all the anxiety of trying to drive such a high volume practice

insurance companies actively discriminate against chiropractors, hassling them endlessly over claims, etc. another way they discriminate is they will pay a chiropractor greatly reduced reimbursements for even the exact same procedures vs. an m.d., osteopath, or even a P.T.

the economics of playing the insurance game essentially make it almost impossible for a chiropractor to survive from a business perspective - unfortunately this leads to some unethical practices. additionally chiropractors are caught in the middle between the insurance company and the patient. people if you think your insurance company is your friend you are truelly crazy.

also more and more chiropractors will seek to develop cash practices so they can offer patients better quality care and avoid the hassles associated with insurance companies - for those seeking to destroy the chiropractic profession they will cite this as a red flag that you may be dealing with an "unethical" chiropactor (since they do not accept insurance - even though more and more medical doctors and dentists, etc are doing the same)

chiropractors are legally a "portal of entry" into the healthcare system and you do not need any referral from a PCP, etc. to walk into see a chiropactor. for this reason they recieve a fairly extensive education in diagnosis. although educationally and legally they have this right, insurance companies restrict them further in the range of diagnostic tests and procedures they will reimburse when ordered by a chiropractor. so it is not unusual for a chiropactor instead of ordering an MRI, to go ahead and try a therapeutic trial of care, whereas an M.D. will usually not hesitate to order an MRI

malpractice insurance for chiropractic is about 1/10 or less than for an M.D.

i could go on and on but i guess bottom line do not through out the entire profession because there are a few bad apples
 
if you guys are going to list the good things chiro's do please list the bad as well
do a google a few people have died right after neck adjustments severed the main vein in their necks
many people have had fractured ribs and fucked up verteba and disc after getting adjustments and end up eeding surgery

in florida they stopped mandating P I P protection as of oct 1st 2007 becuase everytime a person got in a fender bender they would walk into a chiro office and be billed what ever the max amount was the insurance would pay out.

My brother got a copy of his records from the insurance company and looked it over to see how he ran up 20,000 in chiro visits in 8 weeks
sure enough they billed him for neck,back adjustments heat packs,ultra sound,massage and spastic stretching when only got a adjustment of the back each time that was it.
Later that chiro was sentenced to 15 years in jail for insurance fruad and tax evasion.

yes a few bad apples can spoil the batch .thats why chiros are not considered doctors and not allowed to perscribe drugs so they often try and sell some over priced health supplements to get a few extra bucks from you.

But then fuck a medical doctor over in clearwater cut out a mans right testical becuase of cancer. When the man awoke and looked at his testicals he relized the doctor was supposed to cut out the left testical.Then he had to have the right one removed and ended up with no balls
So now the man is castrated becuase some dude read the chart backwards
 
haha... dude, shit happens in every profession.... you can't use that as grounds to knock down all chiro's. How many doctors mess up their patients' lives? Malpractice??

Point is, they have merit for some and not so much for others... just like anything else in life
 
6FULLMETALTRUCKIE9 said:
SEE HOW FUNNY IT IS WITH THESE MEMBERS WHO ARE SAYING THEY ARE CHIRO'S HERE ON A SITE ABOUT CHEMICAL ENHANCEMENT , AND THEY TALK OF PRIDE IN THIS PROFESSION HA .GEE NO WONDER THEY HAVE SUCH A STAINED REP WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE. AND AS FOR THE MEDCAIDE PAYING FOR CHIRO SVC . IF YOUR REGULAR ND WRITE A REFERAL THAT IT'S A MEDICAL NEED THEY WILL REIMBURSE YOU FOR THE FEES YOU PAY UP FRONT MINUS YOUR CO PAY AND ANY OTHER INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE SECONDLY . AS FOR ME I HAD A VERY BAD TIME WITH A CHIRO THAT LEFT ME WORSE OFF THEN I WAS . IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FACT I WAS A MINOR WHEN IT HAPPEN I WOULD OF SUED HIS ASS OFF. SEEMS THIS THREAD IS COMING DOWN TO WHO'S GOT BETTER CREDIT TO SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC. AFTER OVER 20 YEARS OF BEING A FIREMAN I'VE SEEN IT ALL SEEN ACCIDENT SET UPS ACCIDENTS THAT PEOPLE DIED IN AND SIMPLE FENDER BENDERS THAT THE WHOLE CALL LOAD WINDS UP NEEDING MEDICAL ( THE OUCH MY NECK HURTS CROWED) CARE. I THINK THE MOST FUN I'VE HAD WAS TAPING A DRUNK TO A BACK BOARD THEN HAVING THE COPS CUFF HIM TO THE STRETCHER FOR DWI AND GOOD MEASURES . IF THESE SO CALLED DOC'S HAD TO EVEN REPORT HALF OF THEIR CLAIM THE NSTB WOULD ENACT MUCH BETTER DRIVING AND SAFETY REGULATIONS LIKE IN GERMANY WHERE SOFT TISSUE INJURIES AREN'T RAMPANT AS THEY ARE HERE IN THE STATES. FMT
Click to expand...


we can turn this discussion into one about the slimy cheeseball slip and fall layers that sue everybody because of a simple fender bender!

By the way...scientific studies have proven that an accident as slow as 5 mph can cause soft tissue damage.
 
chazk said:
if you guys are going to list the good things chiro's do please list the bad as well
do a google a few people have died right after neck adjustments severed the main vein in their necks
many people have had fractured ribs and fucked up verteba and disc after getting adjustments and end up eeding surgery

in florida they stopped mandating P I P protection as of oct 1st 2007 becuase everytime a person got in a fender bender they would walk into a chiro office and be billed what ever the max amount was the insurance would pay out.

My brother got a copy of his records from the insurance company and looked it over to see how he ran up 20,000 in chiro visits in 8 weeks
sure enough they billed him for neck,back adjustments heat packs,ultra sound,massage and spastic stretching when only got a adjustment of the back each time that was it.
Later that chiro was sentenced to 15 years in jail for insurance fruad and tax evasion.

yes a few bad apples can spoil the batch .thats why chiros are not considered doctors and not allowed to perscribe drugs so they often try and sell some over priced health supplements to get a few extra bucks from you.

But then fuck a medical doctor over in clearwater cut out a mans right testical becuase of cancer. When the man awoke and looked at his testicals he relized the doctor was supposed to cut out the left testical.Then he had to have the right one removed and ended up with no balls
So now the man is castrated becuase some dude read the chart backwards
Click to expand...



WTF dude, wake up and educate yourself.... My malpractice insurance (as a Doctor of Chiropractic) is $1400/year for a 3 million dolloar policy! I pay more insurance for driving my auto a year than treating 100 people a day. As you (may) know insurance companies base malpractice rates for physicians on the probability of that profession's potential liabilty (rate and settlement of being sued).

Chiropractic is the safest healthcare profession that there is.
 
blackthunder said:
ru35 said:
Blackthunder, clearly you're ignorant on the subject. Chiropractic specializes in neuro-musculo skeletal problems ie problems with the nervous system, muscles, and bones. Where does cancer come into that? The answer is it doesn't. Chiropractic can help with the symptoms of the cancer but a MD is needed for the chemotherapy to destroy the cancer cells.


This is taken from a chiropractic website:

"Learn How To Fight-Off Everything From The Common Cold And Flu Bug To Cancer, Heart Disease and Stroke…"

Again, making claims like that makes me stay away.
Click to expand...


then stay away. your argument is baseless and pointless. you dont like the profession. we got it. thanks for the contributions.
Click to expand...
 
jcdc71 said:
WTF dude, wake up and educate yourself.... My malpractice insurance (as a Doctor of Chiropractic) is $1400/year for a 3 million dolloar policy! I pay more insurance for driving my auto a year than treating 100 people a day. As you (may) know insurance companies base malpractice rates for physicians on the probability of that profession's potential liabilty (rate and settlement of being sued).

Chiropractic is the safest healthcare profession that there is.
Click to expand...


reflexology is safer then chiropractic care
acupuncturist jab needled in people bodys and no one has died on a acupuncture table yet almost a dozen people have dropped dead right in a the chiros office.
if you call chiropractic healthcare then you would also consider laying crystals on someone body heathcare and the "energy of the stones heal them"
 
After a solid month in pain after an injury I finally am almost pain free today. Yesterday I got a shot of depo-medrol, a steroid.

It was nice to not be miserable for once.
 
chazk said:
reflexology is safer then chiropractic care
acupuncturist jab needled in people bodys and no one has died on a acupuncture table yet almost a dozen people have dropped dead right in a the chiros office.
if you call chiropractic healthcare then you would also consider laying crystals on someone body heathcare and the "energy of the stones heal them"
Click to expand...

dude now you are just being ignorant and showing your prejudice. talk about being negative. you are not just insulting chiros, and there are some good bros here that have dedicated their lives to helping people in this manner, but you are insulting all the people they have helped. getting people better without drugs or surgery saves lives many times over. look at the stats. even just OTC meds, aspirin kills many people each year, and often this will involve conditions that chiros could have helped resolve. the other thing why do more and more other healtch care professionals want to utilize manipulation, primarily PTs. its a very effective tool. now ask yourself this. who would you rather get adjusted by. a chiro that does it hundreds of times a week or somebody that does it only occasionally. personally if i was to get eye surgery i would want somebody with lots of hands on experience and training. same way with adjustments.
 
There are risks associated with any kind of health care. However the people who have died from an adjustment, if you look at the actual cases the majority of the physicians weren't chiropractors. Not to say that it hasn't happened to chiropractors because it has. It's just that medical doctors, physical therapists and other fields of healthcare provide adjustments when they don't have the same training in that aspect.
The risk of a CVA- Cerebral Vertebral Accident from a chiropractic adjustment is about 1 in 3 million. You have more of a chance of getting hit by lightning. About 14,000 people die a year from aspirin. Aspirin! That's not to say that people shouldn't take aspirin as it has benefits, but just to show that everything affects people differently and we shouldn't make judgements on a small percentage of the population.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't bad chiropractors. There are. There are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad in every profession. But to denounce a profession without knowing all the information is irresponsible.

FYI- Chiropractors are doctors. They are trained to be so and depending on the state and the scope of practice can do many things besides adjust. For example in Oregon with a certain amount of hours taken in the specialty, a chiropractor can perform a gynocological exam, deliver babies, etc.
 
drwost said:
we can turn this discussion into one about the slimy cheeseball slip and fall layers that sue everybody because of a simple fender bender!

By the way...scientific studies have proven that an accident as slow as 5 mph can cause soft tissue damage.
Click to expand...
THUS TO QUOTE MYSELF A BIT " CAR FULL OF PEOPLE ALL WANTING BUS RIDES AFTER MINOR ACCIDENTS" DIDN'T WANT TO GET INTO THE WHOLE NTSB AND OSHA RULING ON CAR & TRUCK IMPACTS IT'S A HEADACHE TO READ.JUST KEEPING IT REAL BRO'S...............................FMT
 
jcdc71 said:
WTF dude, wake up and educate yourself.... My malpractice insurance (as a Doctor of Chiropractic) is $1400/year for a 3 million dolloar policy! I pay more insurance for driving my auto a year than treating 100 people a day. As you (may) know insurance companies base malpractice rates for physicians on the probability of that profession's potential liabilty (rate and settlement of being sued).

Chiropractic is the safest healthcare profession that there is.
Click to expand...
Maybe because what you do is innocuous.

I would bet that malpractice insurance doesnt cover "billing malpractice"
 
not all chiropractors are involved in billing fraud. and not all medical doctors are involved in billing fraud. billing fraud is not what this thread is about. anybody with any awareness of healthcare realizes that the insurance companies run rampant on the small businessman to the extent that the fully compliant provider can barely eek out a living. nonetheless the vase majority are ethical. i am beginning to think this thread is a seed for haters, plain and simple. the guy who started the thread just wanted to know if there are people out there that have been helped by chiropractic and of course there are people it has helped. then the haters jump in and before long its intimidating to say anything good. its too bad there have been some bad experiences, for people with this or any other healthcrare profession. but if you just ask around you should not have any problem finding a referral to somebody ethical. i would recommend that approach to anybody seeking a doctor for anything.
 
Triple J said:
not all chiropractors are involved in billing fraud. and not all medical doctors are involved in billing fraud. billing fraud is not what this thread is about. anybody with any awareness of healthcare realizes that the insurance companies run rampant on the small businessman to the extent that the fully compliant provider can barely eek out a living. nonetheless the vase majority are ethical. i am beginning to think this thread is a seed for haters, plain and simple. the guy who started the thread just wanted to know if there are people out there that have been helped by chiropractic and of course there are people it has helped. then the haters jump in and before long its intimidating to say anything good. its too bad there have been some bad experiences, for people with this or any other healthcrare profession. but if you just ask around you should not have any problem finding a referral to somebody ethical. i would recommend that approach to anybody seeking a doctor for anything.
Click to expand...
Haters? Are you fucking serious? I have explained my personal, lengthy experiences with chiropractors. I know that chiropractics can help. I just think that they make goofy claims and they bill fraudulently.. This is what erodes their credibility.
 
stewfoo said:
Haters? Are you fucking serious? I have explained my personal, lengthy experiences with chiropractors. I know that chiropractics can help. I just think that they make goofy claims and they bill fraudulently.. This is what erodes their credibility.
Click to expand...

you are correct those sort of things do erode credibility. i know there are some people that do bad things, but not all. its a good profession and has helped many people. this is where i think your arguments are at fault, since you imply they are ALL doing crooked stuff, and that's not true. if that has been your experience then that is too bad. but in my experience they try to do what is right for their patients.
it may not always work or be the magic bullet some may want it to be, but that is no different than any other form of healthcare. and its nice to have other options.
 
stewwfoo is right what's so wrong with putting his input in this thread ? hell i feel the same as him tried it did nothing but make me worse and now i'm talking about it is all. can't take the heat get off the thread is all.
 
i am not going to waste any more time on this. my experiences have been good and i have friends who work in this field. so i do not like it when people trash my friends because they are good people, they help others, and generally they are underpaid for what they do. unfortunately nothing works all the time for everybody.

if you want to learn more about the positive things chiropractors can do read Lance Armstrong's book. or just observe that most professional sports teams have team chiropractors as well.
 
Triple J said:
i am not going to waste any more time on this. my experiences have been good and i have friends who work in this field. so i do not like it when people trash my friends because they are good people, they help others, and generally they are underpaid for what they do. unfortunately nothing works all the time for everybody.

if you want to learn more about the positive things chiropractors can do read Lance Armstrong's book. or just observe that most professional sports teams have team chiropractors as well.
Click to expand...
FUNNY YOU MENTION THAT ABOUT THE SPORTS TEAMS I HAD ONE ON MY COLLEGE LACROSSE TEAM CAUSE THE COACH SWORE BY HIS TREATMENTS . BUT THE FUNNY THING WAS IF ONE OF US GOT HURT WE ALWAYS HAD TO DEAL WITH THE TRAINERS AND ORTHO BEFORE HE COULD EVEN LAY A HAND ON US . SO WHATS THAT TELLING YOU??????
 
6FULLMETALTRUCKIE9 said:
FUNNY YOU MENTION THAT ABOUT THE SPORTS TEAMS I HAD ONE ON MY COLLEGE LACROSSE TEAM CAUSE THE COACH SWORE BY HIS TREATMENTS . BUT THE FUNNY THING WAS IF ONE OF US GOT HURT WE ALWAYS HAD TO DEAL WITH THE TRAINERS AND ORTHO BEFORE HE COULD EVEN LAY A HAND ON US . SO WHATS THAT TELLING YOU??????
Click to expand...



You are talking about your college Lacrosse team (probably JUCO) and not professional sports. Lets take the best Bodybuilders (Mr. O's) in the sport for instance...

Ronnie 1998-2005 - regular chiropractic patient

Haney 1984-1991 - regular chiropractic patient

Franco 1976, 1981 - Is a Chiropractor himself (and obviously patient)

Arnold 1970-1975, 1980 Regular patient of Franco Columbu

So your comparing your high school Lacross to pro sports, what are you trying to tell me. BTW stop shouting on all your posts
 
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