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Opinion on the Smith Machine
- Thread starter blueta2
- Start date
blueta2 said:
It eliminates your bodies need to balance the weight. Causeing unbalance strenght of your stablizer muscles.
Just try to stay away from it. Honestly. I dont know if its "unsafe" but it itsnt optimal for anything.
Think about it. Benching, you have to balance the bar or else that shit falls on you, with the smith, all you need to do is push
blueta2
New member
BiggT said:
Ok but tell me why and not just state your opinion.
I am curious!!!
You say crap, some say great!
I personally use it to squat (sometimes) cause I have a hard time sqatting (Well cept when I am drinking in a filthy bar and need to squat to pee), but I have done this for 8 yrs and have had no harmfull effects.
s8nlilhlpr
Banned
The smith is horrible for squatting, because it allows you to put your knees at unnatural angles, and still push the bar up. You need to learn to center the weight on your self, and balance with it. I've seen tons of people at my gym with their feet 2' in front of the machine, basically backing into it to lift the weight.
BiggT
New member
blueta2 said:
Alright. Where to start, lol. For one, it takes stabilizers out of the equation. Having strong muscles + weak attachments makes you an injury waiting to happen when doing any fuctional activity, whether you're a professional athlete, or helping a friend move into a new apartment or playing softball in a beer league.
The bar is in a fixed and unnatural plane of motion, so the Smith is not even a good way to 'teach form to beginners' since no free weight movement is even executed in such a manner.
Those are the reasons the Smith is bad for both bodybuilders and recreational trainees and not just bad for athletes. So, overall it is a worthless peice of crap. In almost 14 years of training, I can proudly say the only thing I have ever used the Smith for is to stretch out on the frame after my workout. It would make a good spot to dump your gym bag, but too many people use it.
In my opinion, the world truly would be a better place if Smith Machines were never invented.
blueta2
New member
BiggT said:
Thanks for your insight. You're not alone. I have heard this before from many other folks.
I see the trainers at my gym training newbies on the Smith. I was also trained on the Smith. I like it only for squat. I would not use it for anything else. I do free squat with DB's.
But you also have to consider, most machines in the gym use a fixed range of motion like the Smith. Why would they be any different?
BiggT
New member
blueta2 said:
They are no different, they are all crap in my opinion, and all they do is take up space in commercial gyms. None of them build ANY functional strength that translates into ANY real life activity. The only thing lifting on a particular machine prepares one to do is lift on that particular machine.
You may have zero interest in functional strength, and while that's fine, the same problem I see with the Smith, I see with other machines......Will training on machines exclusively lead directly to serious injury?? Most likely not, but they do not in any way build any sort of functional strength or 'teach' anybody the first thing about correct form. And, the fixed plane of motion that doesn't allow your body to make natural adjustments under the weight can aggrivate things. I know a lot more people with knee problems from machine hack squats than I know of people with knee problems from correctly performed ATF squats.
Honestly, take the time to learn to free weight squat, even if you can only squat with your bodyweight and no bar etc, that, to me, is much more beneficial than machine work.
s8nlilhlpr
Banned
blueta2 said:
Most ISO machines are pieces of crap also though. They are built for 1 specific body size/type and everyone else adjusts to them. If you haven't been on this board that long, you still should see how many people here advocate ONLY using free weights, and doing everything possible standing, so that you use all the muscles you can. WHY would you practice pushing a bar on a fixed plane of motion, how can that possibly help you in real life? Yet, learning how to pick something heavy off the ground, and get it over your head, that could be useful. You can squat all you want in the stupid smith, but the second you try freeweight squats, you will notice the difference (namely 'cause you'll tip over w/out stablizers).
EDIT: Also, you mentioned PT showing "newbies" how to squat on the smith. Ever notice PT DON'T WANT YOU TO PROGRESS. Think about it, if their clients actually lost weight, and learned the exercise properly, they would have no excuse to hire them again and they would lose money.
blueta2
New member
BiggT said:
Yeah I have been working on my squatting....I'm a wimp with that! I'm trying though!
You never use the tricep pulldown, the hamstring machine etc...these are fixed ranges and I see many body builders in my gym using them daily.
Some of those machines are good. Some fixed range of motion is ok!
I agree free weights are what is needed to build strength and muscle, but not all the fixed rnage machines can be bad?!
s8nlilhlpr
Banned
You mentioned the tricep pushdown. Cables are slightly different than a machine IMHO. Most cable's allow you to set the height to pull from, and the pulley allows you to change the angle. you simply can't do that with a machine. Also, why bother with hamstring curls when SLDL and Lunges work, and carry over to bigger lifts?
BiggT
New member
blueta2 said:
They are not all 'bad' when used merely as extra work/assistance work. From a functional training/athletic performance background, they are a pure waste of time. No athlete should use a machine just because they see a bodybuilder using them.
If you free weight squat and have strong stabalizers and a strong core and want to add more direct hamstring work, then leg curls won't hurt you (I'd prefer SLDLs or GMs or glute/ham raises) but yeah, leg curls won't hurt you obviously.
Same thing for triceps pushdowns.....will they cause injury? No, but again, with dips and close-grip pressing, I'd rather get more bang for my buck....I see nothing wrong with a couple high rep sets post-workout for shits and giggles to leave the gym feeling blown up, but by no means should pushdowns be the staple exercise of someone's triceps training.....nor in my opinion should someone 'train triceps' lol, but that is me coming from my background, if you want me to explain I gladly will.
My philosophy is train big lifts progressively, training for a pump or training to get sore is a recipe for making no progress.
bignate73
New member
blueta2
New member
BiggT said:
All good insight...thanks for your comments. I am changing my mind on the Smith now.
And yes please explain about not training triceps?! You never train them?
I find it so interesting how everyone trains different. I guess there is no one perfect way for one person.
Protobuilder
New member
Why not "train triceps"? Because the body is not a concantenation of individual muscles working independently. The body is a unit. The muscles function together to achieve movement. When you "move" in real life, many muscles function together, including smaller, but critical, "non-bodybuilding" muscles. Compound movements more readily mimic natural movements and, as a result, involve the most musculature. Thus, folks around here train movements, like overhead press or squat, rather than muscles per se, such as "shoulders" or "quads" b/c it's not realistic. The squat is not just a "quad" exercise. But it builds lots of muscle and is time-tested in athletics and in bodybuilding. And adding 100 pounds to your squat translates to increased muscle mass in most people.
From my personal experience, I can say that doing isolation type stuff on machines is by far EASIER than learning and sticking with compound movements. But I can also say that I feel MUCH better physically--flexibility, strength, coordination, etc--after hammering away at basic compound lifts like back/front squats, etc.
You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.danjohn.org/bp.pdf
From my personal experience, I can say that doing isolation type stuff on machines is by far EASIER than learning and sticking with compound movements. But I can also say that I feel MUCH better physically--flexibility, strength, coordination, etc--after hammering away at basic compound lifts like back/front squats, etc.
You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.danjohn.org/bp.pdf
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to BiggT again.
Great posts, guys.
I was going to say I think the Smith is useful to do calf raises, but then I realized, I don't even use it for that. I'm sorry, but people who squat in the Smith are just on a different planet.
FYI Smith users who bench/squat/row/shrug/press in the Smith, the bar only weighs 15lbs. Isn't it amazing that you can lift the bar with a single finger?
Great posts, guys.
I was going to say I think the Smith is useful to do calf raises, but then I realized, I don't even use it for that. I'm sorry, but people who squat in the Smith are just on a different planet.
FYI Smith users who bench/squat/row/shrug/press in the Smith, the bar only weighs 15lbs. Isn't it amazing that you can lift the bar with a single finger?
silver_shadow
New member
there are some smiths where it is suspended or something... and the bar is actually weightless, rather the load of the weight of the bar is transfered somewhere else so it appears weightless.vin01 said:
anyway, IMO the smith is a really good machine
i've seen short guys put it up real high and do chins. once i saw a guy hang upside down with his knees folded over the bar and he was doing crunches!
C
curgeo
Guest
The worst piece of equipment to have ever been in the gym.
1392477
New member
I would have to disagree with most posts on here, like certain machines the Smith Machine has it's place in certain workouts.
Personally, I train alone most of the time and it allows me to do benches and shoulder presses closer to my max than I would try with free weights and no spotter. Not everybody has the luxury of training parters and for this, the Smith can be a useful piece of equipment.
That being said, free weights are always my first choice.
Personally, I train alone most of the time and it allows me to do benches and shoulder presses closer to my max than I would try with free weights and no spotter. Not everybody has the luxury of training parters and for this, the Smith can be a useful piece of equipment.
That being said, free weights are always my first choice.
s8nlilhlpr
Banned
assassin said:yeah i agree smith machine is a piece of crap but what about shoulders presses on the smith ????
Uhm, its just as useless. Just say NO to the smith.
ErikZ
New member
I must admit that guys on this board have opened up my eyes to the huge compound lifts, such as the squat, the benchpress, the row and the military press. Believe it or not, my physique has changed dramatically, my strength has increased and I do feel much better once I leave the gym.
They are a good bunch these EF ppl
They are a good bunch these EF ppl
blut wump
New member
I'm really glad that you're continuing to make progress Erik. Have you thought about posting a log of your workouts? Soon you'll be saying "we EF people".ErikB said:I must admit that guys on this board have opened up my eyes to the huge compound lifts, such as the squat, the benchpress, the row and the military press. Believe it or not, my physique has changed dramatically, my strength has increased and I do feel much better once I leave the gym.
They are a good bunch these EF ppl
Illuminati
New member
can't agree more with what has been said already. doing compound lifts that use more muscle groups is always a better idea.
al420
New member
1392477 said:
This is a mental battle I fight all the damm time - today is a max effort chest, shoulder, tri day and I would LOVE to go from flat bench to incline on the smith...I went w/ DB's as I have been programed to do...but I fight the temptation as much as possible.
I do think that for a vet it is a entirely different story. I train at a gym where a top level heavyweight pro trains and he is all over the smith machine, and for that matter the hammer strength's. This is w/ a spotter......and so many plates the smith looks like it is going to cave in!
