Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

[Testosterone boy]

We have got to develop another political party that works for the people instead of simply keeping themselves in power no matter the costs.

This party will come under very heavy fire and needs to be somewhat bullet proof so exceptionally controversial ideas will have to be foregone for the time being. We can not afford a Libertarian type image where we do get taken seriously by most people.

We need to concentrate on these issues, as well as others, and put forward a palatable agenda that convinces people that their lives as well as their childrens lives will be improved.

Issues:

Military strenght

Immigration

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here

Separation of church and state

Abortion

Death penalty

DNA testing and the death penalty

Drug laws, education, and enforcement

Environmental issues

Alternative energy methodology/research

Taxation methodology

White collar crime

Fiscal responsibility

Education reform....we need it


Integrity and viability of stable families

Crime and punishment

Safer driving

Public health

Space exploration

Excessive nonsense litigation


Well...thats a start anyways

 

[Testosterone boy]

Oh yea.....more thongs at the beaches would also be good.

 

[Paulo]

Good idea. Although, I am leaning towards the Self Absorbed Depressive Party myself. Of course, I do have a slight bias, being that I am not only the president but also a client.



Keep on thinking though, I see the wheels of progress turning.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Good idea. Although, I am leaning towards the Self Absorbed Depressive Party myself. Of course, I do have a slight bias, being that I am not only the president but also a client.



Keep on thinking though, I see the wheels of progress turning.

If I was semi retired with several million dollars, I would spank this baby into life.

 

[Testosterone boy]

I am looking forward to some in depth analysis tomorrow.

 

[Apöllo]

Issues:

Military strength
Keep it as is. Good place for jobs and experience.

Immigration
Tell them to go home.

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here
No tax breaks or special favors for those who ship jobs overseas.

Separation of church and state
Keep it seperate, keep it sacred.

Abortion
Keep it legal, get the word out on other solutions.

Death penalty
Keep it going. Punishment must fit the crime however.

DNA testing and the death penalty
Positive or negative DNA results should effect the outcome.

Drug laws, education, and enforcement
Bring back McGruff.

Environmental issues
Protect what we have left and encourage stronger regulations on emissions and polution. Tax breaks for enviromental friendly cos.

Alternative energy methodology/research
Push Bio Diesels further until Hydrogen powers cars.

Taxation methodology
Take in what we spend. Balance the budget.

White collar crime
Get the fucks with punishment that fits the crime.

Fiscal responsibility
Create a balanced budget.

Education reform....we need it
Study the top preforming schools in the country and spread their practices and policies across the nation.

Integrity and viability of stable families
Leave this to people if they want to fuck up their lives let them.

Crime and punishment
Punishment should fit the crime.

Safer driving
Get old folks off the road.

Public health
Stong arm Insurance cos. to lower premiums or develop a level of basic social health care.

Space exploration
Fuck it, there's nothing in space. Only robots should go.

Excessive nonsense litigation
Trash it. Throw heavy penalties to those who file frivolous lawsuits

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Issues:

Military strength
Keep it as is. Good place for jobs and experience.

Immigration
Tell them to go home.

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here
No tax breaks or special favors for those who ship jobs overseas.

Separation of church and state
Keep it seperate, keep it sacred.

Abortion
Keep it legal, get the word out on other solutions.

Death penalty
Keep it going. Punishment must fit the crime however.

DNA testing and the death penalty
Positive or negative DNA results should effect the outcome.

Drug laws, education, and enforcement
Bring back McGruff.

Environmental issues
Protect what we have left and encourage stronger regulations on emissions and polution. Tax breaks for enviromental friendly cos.

Alternative energy methodology/research
Push Bio Diesels further until Hydrogen powers cars.

Taxation methodology
Take in what we spend. Balance the budget.

White collar crime
Get the fucks with punishment that fits the crime.

Fiscal responsibility
Create a balanced budget.

Education reform....we need it
Study the top preforming schools in the country and spread their practices and policies across the nation.

Integrity and viability of stable families
Leave this to people if they want to fuck up their lives let them.

Crime and punishment
Punishment should fit the crime.

Safer driving
Get old folks off the road.

Public health
Stong arm Insurance cos. to lower premiums or develop a level of basic social health care.

Space exploration
Fuck it, there's nothing in space. Only robots should go.

Excessive nonsense litigation
Trash it. Throw heavy penalties to those who file frivolous lawsuits

Thats pretty sound overall though I think I may see a possible weakness. Thanks for the input!

 

[Testosterone boy]

Well....I see ya'll hosers really racked your brains here.

 

[Apöllo]

Well Tboy, when things like this occur, I just have to remind myself that NASCAR is the #1 sport in America.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Well Tboy, when things like this occur, I just have to remind myself that NASCAR is the #1 sport in America.

Yea....not too many care.

I am really hoping that Perot comes back with all of his charts and graphs. That will cost the Bushbarians more than dearly.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Just wanted a moment to thank everyone for their input.


Whatever happens.....maybe we deserved it.

 

[Apöllo]

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Military strenght
Does the US need to be the self-imposed police force to the world? Even so, do we need to be proactive instead of reactive?

Immigration
We need people to work the jobs that nobody else wants to. This country was built off of immigration. Get them to pay taxes.

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here
This isn't a problem. The only issue is whether or not it is good business sense. There are the companies that will see it isn't and move it back, and there are those that see it is and they will then reinvest their profits into some other facet that will need people to run it. That will be on US soil first and then perhaps outsourced.

Separation of church and state
If your government has the church in it, then it isn't a government, it is just the church. They should be very separate.

Abortion
Allow it. The people that are having it aren't the ones you want breeding anyway, and it isn't like we are suffering for numbers.

Death penalty
The death penalty isn't the problem, it is the litigation that ties up a single punishment for years. If it is something that can be proven and it is something that would be appropriate - then kill them quickly and painlessly with the lowest cost to the taxpayer.

DNA testing and the death penalty
DNA testing has flaws. DNA evidence on its own shouldn't be the whole case. But with other evidence that backs it up, then you have a case.

Drug laws, education, and enforcement
Legalize and regulate the way over the counter and prescription drugs are now. Then tax it. Stop the useless "war on drugs" that is just a hidden agenda anyway. Educate people by discussing the truths, not through lies. Drugs don't make you feel bad, they make you feel great. But as with any pro, there is a con. Be aware of them and make your decision. Tax the person if they make a decision in a way that is going to be costly to the system.

Environmental issues
Tax companies additionally if they fail basic pollution tests. As for the weather, it goes through swings, we have less impact on it than the media wants since scary news means ratings.

Alternative energy methodology/research
The government has no business in this at all. There are already energy industries, they will quickly and efficiently fill the niche when the time/need arises. There are oil drilling companies in Japan that have business plans 100 years out that account for a global lack of oil - they move to freshwater production and even account for colonization of the moon.

Taxation methodology
This is incredibly broad in terms of a concept or topic. Generally, the less tax the better. If you are going to tax, it should a punishment and not a revenue generation scheme. Consumption based.

White collar crime
Stupid name. Crime is crime. But you crack down on the rich boys and your party will stop getting the handouts that you need to run your election.

Fiscal responsibility
Again, a nonsense phrase that gets tossed around. Smaller government and let the free market govern who wins or loses.

Education reform....we need it
Fact of large systems, there will always be a top, middle, and bottom. To try to defeat this will only result in a larger middle. Effectively dumbing down the population. Essentially the same concept of taxes, but with intelligence instead of money.

Integrity and viability of stable families
Why does this matter?

Crime and punishment
This is redundant with prior discussion. It has been shown in many studies that human nature responds to rewards and grows calloused towards punishments. Perhaps we need to work on better rewards and worry less about bad punishments.

Safer driving
This isn't a government issue. Safer physical roads is, but the car itself being safer is the industry responsibility (more customers surviving accidents mean more customers to buy your product). Perhaps increase the frequency at which the elderly have to be tested for their license. Bad drivers fall into a Darwinian system. This also takes into account those that don't pay attention to that around them and don't see other bad drivers.

Public health
This is not the role of government. If you have a consumption based taxation system, then you still get money from this and you don't care if they are healthy. It is a free country, people are free to be fat.

Space exploration
This is fine and dandy - for private companies. The government has no place in this.

Excessive nonsense litigation
Nonsense is all relative. I don't know enough about law to know what reforms need to be made, but I do know that the British system is considered more desirable than the US system.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Military strenght
Does the US need to be the self-imposed police force to the world? Even so, do we need to be proactive instead of reactive?

Immigration
We need people to work the jobs that nobody else wants to. This country was built off of immigration. Get them to pay taxes.

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here
This isn't a problem. The only issue is whether or not it is good business sense. There are the companies that will see it isn't and move it back, and there are those that see it is and they will then reinvest their profits into some other facet that will need people to run it. That will be on US soil first and then perhaps outsourced.

Separation of church and state
If your government has the church in it, then it isn't a government, it is just the church. They should be very separate.

Abortion
Allow it. The people that are having it aren't the ones you want breeding anyway, and it isn't like we are suffering for numbers.

Death penalty
The death penalty isn't the problem, it is the litigation that ties up a single punishment for years. If it is something that can be proven and it is something that would be appropriate - then kill them quickly and painlessly with the lowest cost to the taxpayer.

DNA testing and the death penalty
DNA testing has flaws. DNA evidence on its own shouldn't be the whole case. But with other evidence that backs it up, then you have a case.

Drug laws, education, and enforcement
Legalize and regulate the way over the counter and prescription drugs are now. Then tax it. Stop the useless "war on drugs" that is just a hidden agenda anyway. Educate people by discussing the truths, not through lies. Drugs don't make you feel bad, they make you feel great. But as with any pro, there is a con. Be aware of them and make your decision. Tax the person if they make a decision in a way that is going to be costly to the system.

Environmental issues
Tax companies additionally if they fail basic pollution tests. As for the weather, it goes through swings, we have less impact on it than the media wants since scary news means ratings.

Alternative energy methodology/research
The government has no business in this at all. There are already energy industries, they will quickly and efficiently fill the niche when the time/need arises. There are oil drilling companies in Japan that have business plans 100 years out that account for a global lack of oil - they move to freshwater production and even account for colonization of the moon.

Taxation methodology
This is incredibly broad in terms of a concept or topic. Generally, the less tax the better. If you are going to tax, it should a punishment and not a revenue generation scheme. Consumption based.

White collar crime
Stupid name. Crime is crime. But you crack down on the rich boys and your party will stop getting the handouts that you need to run your election.

Fiscal responsibility
Again, a nonsense phrase that gets tossed around. Smaller government and let the free market govern who wins or loses.

Education reform....we need it
Fact of large systems, there will always be a top, middle, and bottom. To try to defeat this will only result in a larger middle. Effectively dumbing down the population. Essentially the same concept of taxes, but with intelligence instead of money.

Integrity and viability of stable families
Why does this matter?

Crime and punishment
This is redundant with prior discussion. It has been shown in many studies that human nature responds to rewards and grows calloused towards punishments. Perhaps we need to work on better rewards and worry less about bad punishments.

Safer driving
This isn't a government issue. Safer physical roads is, but the car itself being safer is the industry responsibility (more customers surviving accidents mean more customers to buy your product). Perhaps increase the frequency at which the elderly have to be tested for their license. Bad drivers fall into a Darwinian system. This also takes into account those that don't pay attention to that around them and don't see other bad drivers.

Public health
This is not the role of government. If you have a consumption based taxation system, then you still get money from this and you don't care if they are healthy. It is a free country, people are free to be fat.

Space exploration
This is fine and dandy - for private companies. The government has no place in this.

Excessive nonsense litigation
Nonsense is all relative. I don't know enough about law to know what reforms need to be made, but I do know that the British system is considered more desirable than the US system.

I liked a lot of these ideas and thank you for the input.


The reason that I so frequently mention the family is because everybody is from a family and better families do tend to produce better people which makes life better for everybody.


I think government ought to concern itself with the maintenance or improvement of the quality of the public. If it can never play a beneficial role then it ought to shut itself down because it surely plays an adversarial role millions of times/day.

I always heard the British legal system was crazier than ours. How is theirs thought to be better? I am seriously interested. Off the top of my head I would say the legal system ought to represent maybe 1/3 of efforts to get this country back on its feet.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

I always heard the British legal system was crazier than ours. How is theirs thought to be better? I am seriously interested. Off the top of my head I would say the legal system ought to represent maybe 1/3 of efforts to get this country back on its feet.

I am the wrong one to ask about it - the only part of the legal system I am familiar with enough to talk about is the US patent system.

But I do know that when companies seek to go offshore, the government makes a big stink in the media over the tax side of it (since the government wants its tax money), but the larger reason why companies leave the States is the legal system.

Here in Bermuda, the legal system is based on the British system - what that system is... I honestly don't know - but I know that it is more efficient from a business standpoint and frivilous cases get thrown out immediately.

How that relates to the average person instead of corporations, I honestly don't know.
I have a friend at Harvard law school, I could ask him I guess. He would most certainly know more about it than I do.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

I am the wrong one to ask about it - the only part of the legal system I am familiar with enough to talk about is the US patent system.

But I do know that when companies seek to go offshore, the government makes a big stink in the media over the tax side of it (since the government wants its tax money), but the larger reason why companies leave the States is the legal system.

Here in Bermuda, the legal system is based on the British system - what that system is... I honestly don't know - but I know that it is more efficient from a business standpoint and frivilous cases get thrown out immediately.

How that relates to the average person instead of corporations, I honestly don't know.
I have a friend at Harvard law school, I could ask him I guess. He would most certainly know more about it than I do.

Great...if you get a good chance to find out I am sure that some of us would like to know the advantages of the British litigation system.

 

[casualbb]

Education reform....we need it
Fact of large systems, there will always be a top, middle, and bottom. To try to defeat this will only result in a larger middle. Effectively dumbing down the population. Essentially the same concept of taxes, but with intelligence instead of money.

Here's a better idea, along with some facts. First of all, there's huge inequity in schools. Richer areas have better schools, poorer areas have worse ones. Well duh. But why is this the case?

It has to do with funding. 40% of money for a school comes from local property taxes. BOOM. There's the problem. In a poor area you have a much smaller amount of money going to a much higher amount of kids (ghettos are more densely populated than Beverly Hills). Another 40% comes from the state budget (richer states -> richer schools), and the final 20% from the federal government.

What we need to do is quit dicking around with this local and state funding and move it all to federal. For under 5% of the military budget, we could equally federally fund ALL schools to the level of the current BEST schools.

It just...makes...sense.

 

[argent]

I agree with 95% of peoples ideas here.

CasualBB- good idea on edu

OMG...- good stuff in general

Apollo- good stuff also

 

[Testosterone boy]

Here's a better idea, along with some facts. First of all, there's huge inequity in schools. Richer areas have better schools, poorer areas have worse ones. Well duh. But why is this the case?

It has to do with funding. 40% of money for a school comes from local property taxes. BOOM. There's the problem. In a poor area you have a much smaller amount of money going to a much higher amount of kids (ghettos are more densely populated than Beverly Hills). Another 40% comes from the state budget (richer states -> richer schools), and the final 20% from the federal government.

What we need to do is quit dicking around with this local and state funding and move it all to federal. For under 5% of the military budget, we could equally federally fund ALL schools to the level of the current BEST schools.

It just...makes...sense.

Hmmm...while all of usare comforted by the thought of a quality education being available for everyone, I do not see equal funding to all schools ever happening. Personally I'm not convinced that federal control would be a good idea either.

This concept is very democratic and, in my opinion, somewhat idealistic but thats just my opinion.

Thanks for the input and it made me think.

 

[argent]

Maybe put the states in charge of equal distribution of funds then. But that would lead to other problems though.

 

[Hangfire]

What we need to do is quit dicking around with this local and state funding and move it all to federal. For under 5% of the military budget, we could equally federally fund ALL schools to the level of the current BEST schools.

Good theory, but would never work in actual practice. The federal government will never bring a nationwide school system up to the level of the current BEST schools because the fed is incapable of that kind of efficient use of tax dollars and we would end up with a nationwide MEDIOCRE school sysytem.

The bureaucratic waste that infects every part of federal government would eventually make a nationwide education system a monetary black hole; the BEST would be dragged down to the level of the WORST. Funding has nothing to do with quality of education. All you need to educate a child is a QUALIFIED teacher and a textbook, and every school has textbooks. The NEA fights establishment of minimum competency testing for teachers. Since there are no demonstrable standards by which to judge teachers, it is a fallacy that the richest school districts attract "the best teachers".

Education has less to do with school funding than it has to do with the social aspects of poverty and everything that implies. Until we get over our reluctance to recognize that there are behavioral symptoms associated with poverty status, we'll keep looking the other way and continuing to throw federal money at the schools. Schools that have a small budget due to a small local tax base already get federal compensation so its clear that money isn't the solution. Parental involvement in the student's education is the single most effective way to promote learning. A child who is not motivated to learn will not learn--no matter how much money you throw at the problem. If the motivation doesn't come from the home, then we must have teachers who are SKILLED enough to promote that motivation & enthusiasm. That is part of teaching. I could stand in front of a class and present material, but that isn't teaching.

 

[Hangfire]

We have got to develop another political party that works for the people instead of simply keeping themselves in power no matter the costs.

Only until the party becomes accustomed to being in power.

This party will come under very heavy fire and needs to be somewhat bullet proof so exceptionally controversial ideas will have to be foregone for the time being. We can not afford a Libertarian type image where we do get taken seriously by most people.

We need to concentrate on these issues, as well as others, and put forward a palatable agenda that convinces people that their lives as well as their childrens lives will be improved.

Are you trying to establish a serious third major party, or are you trying to set up a smokescreen that would get you in the door so you could establish your real agenda? That's the way it reads. If that is the case, it has already been done. They call themselves the Democrat Party.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Only until the party becomes accustomed to being in power.



Are you trying to establish a serious third major party, or are you trying to set up a smokescreen that would get you in the door so you could establish your real agenda? That's the way it reads. If that is the case, it has already been done. They call themselves the Democrat Party.

Good night Hangfire, you are one of those GOP disciples that would get sent to Cuba for hanging and would say that the dems would have sent your dog as well.

 

[casualbb]

Good theory, but would never work in actual practice. The federal government will never bring a nationwide school system up to the level of the current BEST schools because the fed is incapable of that kind of efficient use of tax dollars and we would end up with a nationwide MEDIOCRE school sysytem.

Actually, each individual school already handles the spending of money. All the fed needs to do is funnel them the money and they'll take care of it.

The bureaucratic waste that infects every part of federal government would eventually make a nationwide education system a monetary black hole; the BEST would be dragged down to the level of the WORST. Funding has nothing to do with quality of education. All you need to educate a child is a QUALIFIED teacher and a textbook, and every school has textbooks. The NEA fights establishment of minimum competency testing for teachers. Since there are no demonstrable standards by which to judge teachers, it is a fallacy that the richest school districts attract "the best teachers".

Untrue. Schools in poor areas frequently do NOT have 100% intact facilities and do NOT have money for textbooks or even pencils. Teachers hired are often apathetic due to being underpaid. Many headmasters will quote as saying, "If we had more money we could hire qualified motivated teachers."

Education has less to do with school funding than it has to do with the social aspects of poverty and everything that implies. Until we get over our reluctance to recognize that there are behavioral symptoms associated with poverty status, we'll keep looking the other way and continuing to throw federal money at the schools. Schools that have a small budget due to a small local tax base already get federal compensation so its clear that money isn't the solution. Parental involvement in the student's education is the single most effective way to promote learning. A child who is not motivated to learn will not learn--no matter how much money you throw at the problem. If the motivation doesn't come from the home, then we must have teachers who are SKILLED enough to promote that motivation & enthusiasm. That is part of teaching. I could stand in front of a class and present material, but that isn't teaching.

What happens when kids go to school and see that the place is falling apart? How do you think that will affect their motivation to learn? Some schools are so poorly funded that they count on 30% of highschools students to drop out. Otherwise there aren't even enough chairs for all kids in the classroom.

The poorest schools in NYC receive around $3,000/student. The richest receive around $14,000. Tell me that isn't going to make a difference.

Reference: Kozol, Jonathan. Savage Inequalities. New York: Crown Publishers, 1991.

 

[casualbb]

Oh, and btw, we're the only western nation not to federally fund public schools. Kinda like we're the only one without nationalized healthcare. Makes you wonder what's wrong with us, eh?

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Good night Hangfire, you are one of those GOP disciples that would get sent to Cuba for hanging and would say that the dems would have sent your dog as well.

Can't stand anybody throwing cold water on your grandiose ego trip?

 

[Hangfire]

What happens when kids go to school and see that the place is falling apart? How do you think that will affect their motivation to learn? Some schools are so poorly funded that they count on 30% of highschools students to drop out. Otherwise there aren't even enough chairs for all kids in the classroom.

The poorest schools in NYC receive around $3,000/student. The richest receive around $14,000. Tell me that isn't going to make a difference.

Reference: Kozol, Jonathan. Savage Inequalities. New York: Crown Publishers, 1991.

You can quote expenditure stats all day long. It is a fact that many of the finest students do come from the poorest school systems. Money does not create good students; family involvement and qualified teachers do. How would you explain the scholastic excellence of many Asian immigrants who come to this country with very little money, attend schools in the ghettos and barios, and achieve academic excellence, without even speaking the native language? Their families are insistent upon achievement in every area of life and that translates into academic excellence because, for them, it is a matter of personal pride and honor. There is no excuse for not having chairs, books and pencils and the responsibility is on the school districts to provide them. Just like nationalized health care, nationalized education is the wet dream of the liberal left because it places more control of your tax dollars in their hands. They know how to do everything right, if only they had enough of our money.

 

[Hangfire]

Oh, and btw, we're the only western nation not to federally fund public schools. Kinda like we're the only one without nationalized healthcare. Makes you wonder what's wrong with us, eh?

The federal government (taxpayer) does fund public schools--they are not FULLY funded and shouldn't be. Nationalized healthcare would be a trainwreck. It sounds to me like you think we don't pay enough federal income tax.

 

[casualbb]

Money does not create good students; family involvement and qualified teachers do.

Let me repeat myself: money buys qualified teachers. Among a whole host of other things most people would consider essential to an education.

Your attitude is, "Yes things are unequal, but based on the few % of kids who succeed in spite of the handicaps, we should expect the same from the rest."

It's total crap.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

While I do agree that more money tends to indicate a better school in terms of the end result, I don't agree with your point that higher pay to teachers results in a better end result.

There are many inner city schools around the country that have to offer much more money than the suburb schools to their teachers to try to entice teachers to come and work in a dangerous environment.
Those inner city schools have terrible test results and high turnover in the teaching staff - but high salaries (much higher than many professor salaries).

Then there are plenty of snobby private schools that pay their teachers jack shit (well below poverty level). They have the highest grades in the country, and an equally high turnover in teachers.

While I certainly don't disagree that schools that have more money available to them tend to have better results - but I think you will see that it isn't based on teacher pay.

If you are going to make an argument about the money, I would say that the money at home is what makes more of an impact - a wealthy home is a better environment for learning than is a home with no money.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Can't stand anybody throwing cold water on your grandiose ego trip?

What....I recognize that the country is falling apart and look for ideas and I'm "grandiose"?

It was a CIA agent that told me the country is falling apart but what the hell would an agent know?


You suffer from serious delusions if you think the Bushbarians are good for this country bro.


Perot would leave them all gutted and beheaded with 10 minutes of lucid charts and graphs. Lucid.....do you know what that is?

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

What....I recognize that the country is falling apart and look for ideas and I'm "grandiose"?

It was a CIA agent that told me the country is falling apart but what the hell would an agent know?


You suffer from serious delusions if you think the Bushbarians are good for this country bro.


Perot would leave them all gutted and beheaded with 10 minutes of lucid charts and graphs. Lucid.....do you know what that is?

Testosterone boy: this country is NOT falling apart. A CIA agent is not automatically an expert on the state of the nation anymore than you or I are. Perot's charts and graphs are a demonstration that he can make shit work on paper. So can I. So can you. I do think that the Bush administration is good for the country; I think that political conservatism is good for this country; I think that a strong military is good for this country; I think that political and moral liberalism is bad for this couintry and I am sure that left-wing tax-and-spend fiscal policy is death for this country. THAT is lucid thought and the majority of Americans agree with me.

 

[Testosterone boy]

You are clearly deluded.

You accuse liberals of spending too much?

The Bushbarians are in their own league here. Not only for irresponsible fiscal policy but for shoveling the funds into their own pockets.

Bill Gates ought to keep an eye on the Bushbarians now that they have attached the Iraqi oil fields at OUR expense.

 

[Sebby]

I nominate myself for party president.

 

[Testosterone boy]

I nominate myself for party president.

Well that just ruins everything.

 

[casualbb]

Everybody's saying, "Let's not give the schools more money because there's no guarantee it would make it better."

Yes. You are correct. There is no guarantee that tripling or quadrupling a failing school's budget to the level of an elite school will MAKE it an elite school.

But I'm going to say we should anyway. Why? Just so that we eliminate ONE of the excuses these kids have to fail. We can't make their parents care, we can't fully eradicate drugs from the ghetto neighborhoods, and we can't totally eliminate the gang presence. But let's take the one thing we can control, ie money, and make sure it's not another odd stacked against them.

It's the right thing to do.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Everybody's saying, "Let's not give the schools more money because there's no guarantee it would make it better."

Yes. You are correct. There is no guarantee that tripling or quadrupling a failing school's budget to the level of an elite school will MAKE it an elite school.

But I'm going to say we should anyway. Why? Just so that we eliminate ONE of the excuses these kids have to fail. We can't make their parents care, we can't fully eradicate drugs from the ghetto neighborhoods, and we can't totally eliminate the gang presence. But let's take the one thing we can control, ie money, and make sure it's not another odd stacked against them.

It's the right thing to do.

You must love taxes.

 

[Hangfire]

Everybody's saying, "Let's not give the schools more money because there's no guarantee it would make it better."

Yes. You are correct. There is no guarantee that tripling or quadrupling a failing school's budget to the level of an elite school will MAKE it an elite school.

But I'm going to say we should anyway. Why? Just so that we eliminate ONE of the excuses these kids have to fail. We can't make their parents care, we can't fully eradicate drugs from the ghetto neighborhoods, and we can't totally eliminate the gang presence. But let's take the one thing we can control, ie money, and make sure it's not another odd stacked against them.

It's the right thing to do.

The kids aren't failing; the education system is failing. It is badly broken and the NEA is standing in the way of fixing it.

It is very generous of you to throw around other peoples' money in order to be the most noble among us. It would be alot easier and cheaper for the taxpayers to make the schools safe havens that are free of drugs and street gangs and violence and all of the other outside influences that hinder learning. But that would mean putting aside all of the PC feelgood bullshit that has become institutionalized in the public schools over the last decade and longer.

It may sound cynical to say so but, as soon as you have created an environment where all you need to teach is teachers, there is a whole other group of parasites who are out of a job. Just like the civil rights industry depends on racism for it's reason to exist, the schools need to have continuing justification for psychologists, counselors, advisors, advocates, specialists, and experts of all kinds--all of whom claim a paycheck. The logic is the same as the accusations that the pharmaceutical companies will never market a cure for AIDS because there is too much profit in treating it.

 

[Tiervexx]

Test boy, look into the libertarian party more. They are still way too small but they still dwarf all the other third parties, and are the only logical party in existence.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Test boy, look into the libertarian party more. They are still way too small but they still dwarf all the other third parties, and are the only logical party in existence.

You think I'm really serious about this stuff?


Talking politics is a way for unimportant people to feel important and that includes me.

I abhor the idea of running but do like to think about ways to improve things. If we got rid of most of the politicians, that may be a good first step.

 

[Tiervexx]

You think I'm really serious about this stuff?


Talking politics is a way for unimportant people to feel important and that includes me.

I abhor the idea of running but do like to think about ways to improve things. If we got rid of most of the politicians, that may be a good first step.

I know your not serious, but I am.

I would say that we should shoot all the current politicians but I could get in trouble for that so I'm not going to say it

 

[casualbb]

You must love taxes.

Actually it really doesn't take all that much money to do this. Education is relatively cheap. $15,000 is the price for an entire top-notch high school education. Shit, for nothing other than the cost of the "war" on Iraq we could put the next 23 million kids through an elite high school. Where are the priorities?

To hangfire:

By your reasoning then we might as well withdraw funding from the best schools. Since it's the home and neighborhood environment that determines success anyway and there are so many frivolous expenditures, let's chop down their budgets to ghetto-level.

 

[Tiervexx]

Actually it really doesn't take all that much money to do this. Education is relatively cheap. $15,000 is the price for an entire top-notch high school education. Shit, for nothing other than the cost of the "war" on Iraq we could put the next 23 million kids through an elite high school. Where are the priorities?

To hangfire:

By your reasoning then we might as well withdraw funding from the best schools. Since it's the home and neighborhood environment that determines success anyway and there are so many frivolous expenditures, let's chop down their budgets to ghetto-level.

First, you are assuming that money is the problem with our school.

Second, at the time when the department of education was created American schools where some of the best in the world at math and science. Since then we have fallen sharply, so what on earth makes you believe that more federal control is a good idea?

Third, motivated students with a connection to the teacher can learn in a school that consists of a shack, a dirt floor, and a stick to draw in.

The best way to motivate students is to put them in schools that show them the value of learning by starting with things that interests them. Obviously the best way to do this is to greatly increase the amount of choice in schools. What’s the best way to do that? Privatize them.

Of course some students might just need to work in the real world for a while to learn the value of education. Therefore schools should not be mandatory. Many people might not ever choose to attend school, which is fine. While others might have to start working first then take classes on off days.

The market will do a much better job of providing for education’s real needs than any government.

 

[Apöllo]

I think you people have a problem with black kids in the schools corrupting the white kids with rap music.

Just admit it.

 

[casualbb]

First, you are assuming that money is the problem with our school.

It's one of the big ones. Richest schools spend 15,000 per student. The poorest spend below $5000. Doesn't that sound like a problem? What happened to equal opportunity?

Second, at the time when the department of education was created American schools where some of the best in the world at math and science. Since then we have fallen sharply, so what on earth makes you believe that more federal control is a good idea?

Correlation does not imply causation. If you need that explained let me know.

Third, motivated students with a connection to the teacher can learn in a school that consists of a shack, a dirt floor, and a stick to draw in.

There's nothing that says "the federal government doesn't give a shit about my education" quite like a dilapidated schoolhouse with no pencils. I say the condition of our schools affects student motivation. If we want these kids to start performing like top-notch students, we should start treating them like it.

The best way to motivate students is to put them in schools that show them the value of learning by starting with things that interests them. Obviously the best way to do this is to greatly increase the amount of choice in schools. What’s the best way to do that? Privatize them.

Explain to me how that's an "obvious" solution.

 

[Tiervexx]

It's one of the big ones. Richest schools spend 15,000 per student. The poorest spend below $5000. Doesn't that sound like a problem? What happened to equal opportunity?

Equal opportunity does not mean that everyone must start in the same position. It is insane even to suggest that the world should apologize for you getting the genetics you receive, the type of parents you are raised by and for you being born where you are. It might not be fair but you have to work with what you have.

Correlation does not imply causation. If you need that explained let me know.

But it really does seem like it is way too much of a coincidence that everything seems to go to shit as the government gets more and more involved with it.

There's nothing that says "the federal government doesn't give a shit about my education" quite like a dilapidated schoolhouse with no pencils. I say the condition of our schools affects student motivation. If we want these kids to start performing like top-notch students, we should start treating them like it.

If it makes any difference the opposite is true. Putting students in simpler surroundings can help make it clear to them where they are in life and why they need the education. Throwing money at them makes many of the immature kids feel like they are important and don't need it. Real motivation comes from the belief that they are learning something relevant. Most students my age believe that what they teach us in school is all bullshit, and they may be right. Giving them nice surroundings won't make a difference.

Explain to me how that's an "obvious" solution.

Because people are different! Having one standardized set of schools will not work for many people! Increasing the choice in schools give everyone a much better chance of finding something that they want and need.

The final problem I have with expensive public schools is that you can not justify forcing other people to pay for it. It is their property after all.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Throwing more money at the problem does not work, that has been proven time and again.

The best learning is done when abstractions are minimal. One of todays problems is that so many people think they are KIng Shit because of their technological marvels. If someone thinks they are King Shit, they have little incentive to improve themselves.

 

[casualbb]

If it makes any difference the opposite is true. Putting students in simpler surroundings can help make it clear to them where they are in life and why they need the education. Throwing money at them makes many of the immature kids feel like they are important and don't need it. Real motivation comes from the belief that they are learning something relevant. Most students my age believe that what they teach us in school is all bullshit, and they may be right. Giving them nice surroundings won't make a difference.

...Huh? Where do you get this crap?

Let's just teach kids in stick huts. Maybe then they'll realize they're poor and that they should do better.

Believe me, POOR KIDS GET IT. They know they're fucking poor. Making conditions even more spartan should somehow improve their motivation?

Say what you just said to a single working mother in a ghetto neighborhood and you'll get killed.

 

[biteme]

Good idea. Although, I am leaning towards the Self Absorbed Depressive Party myself. Of course, I do have a slight bias, being that I am not only the president but also a client.





Keep on thinking though, I see the wheels of progress turning.

LMAO! You're great.

 

[biteme]

Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

Issues:

Military strength
Keep it as is. Good place for jobs and experience.

Immigration
Tell them to go home.

Outsourcing millions of jobs...no easy solution here
No tax breaks or special favors for those who ship jobs overseas.

Separation of church and state
Keep it seperate, keep it sacred.

Abortion
Keep it legal, get the word out on other solutions.

Death penalty
Keep it going. Punishment must fit the crime however.

DNA testing and the death penalty
Positive or negative DNA results should effect the outcome.

Drug laws, education, and enforcement
Bring back McGruff.

Environmental issues
Protect what we have left and encourage stronger regulations on emissions and polution. Tax breaks for enviromental friendly cos.

Alternative energy methodology/research
Push Bio Diesels further until Hydrogen powers cars.

Taxation methodology
Take in what we spend. Balance the budget.

White collar crime
Get the fucks with punishment that fits the crime.

Fiscal responsibility
Create a balanced budget.

Education reform....we need it
Study the top preforming schools in the country and spread their practices and policies across the nation.

Integrity and viability of stable families
Leave this to people if they want to fuck up their lives let them.

Crime and punishment
Punishment should fit the crime.

Safer driving
Get old folks off the road.

Public health
Stong arm Insurance cos. to lower premiums or develop a level of basic social health care.

Space exploration
Fuck it, there's nothing in space. Only robots should go.

Excessive nonsense litigation
Trash it. Throw heavy penalties to those who file frivolous lawsuits

U get my vote for president. The only issue that I might disagree on, is the excessive nonsense litigation. Some of it that is tauted as nonsense is in fact not nonsense at all. Those perpetrators would have us believe otherwise.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Re: Operation RESCUE needs your input bro.....

U get my vote for president. The only issue that I might disagree on, is the excessive nonsense litigation. Some of it that is tauted as nonsense is in fact not nonsense at all. Those perpetrators would have us believe otherwise.

Very true..it is so easy to call a law suit "nonsense."


We have people who file a number number of lawsuits however. They are pros who now how to work the system. Everybody pays for this.

 

[Tiervexx]

...Huh? Where do you get this crap?

Let's just teach kids in stick huts. Maybe then they'll realize they're poor and that they should do better.

Believe me, POOR KIDS GET IT. They know they're fucking poor. Making conditions even more spartan should somehow improve their motivation?

Say what you just said to a single working mother in a ghetto neighborhood and you'll get killed.

I also said that very little you do either way when funding them will make much of a difference in motivation. I don't really think that bad conditions will motivate them but it is equally ridiculous to think that throwing money at them will.

It seems so strange that almost every time I tell a liberal my views on the economy they respond with some dumbshit comment about how those badass poor inner-city kids would do this and that. Well I've always been very vocal about my views and it isn't happening.

 

[Tiervexx]

Throwing more money at the problem does not work, that has been proven time and again.

The best learning is done when abstractions are minimal. One of todays problems is that so many people think they are KIng Shit because of their technological marvels. If someone thinks they are King Shit, they have little incentive to improve themselves.

This is a good post.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

From now on, I want to be referred to as King Shit.

 

[Testosterone boy]

From now on, I want to be referred to as King Shit.

Nah.....MTS grabbed it long ago.

Besides.....you are the brobe, says so right above your avatar.


You got a black lab? Lucky man.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

Nah.....MTS grabbed it long ago.

Besides.....you are the brobe, says so right above your avatar.


You got a black lab? Lucky man.

Maybe I can be Shit King instead. It has a nice ring to it.

I don't have a dog - I just like pictures of them wearing stuff on their head. My dad has a yellow lab if that works though.

In reference to this thread - that Tyvek kid and I seem to agree on a lot of stuff, other than the wanting man sex stuff.

 

[Tiervexx]

From now on, I want to be referred to as King Shit.

LOL