one thing i've never comprehended about the muscle car era...

[binö]

...is how the fug peeps in winter climates made these typa cars their daily driver, which i know a lotta peeps did.
imagine a ss nova in colorado or norcal.
worthless on any type of snow or ice.
was there many trucks i the road back then?
how was getting around?
discuss

 

[javaguru]

...is how the fug peeps in winter climates made these typa cars their daily driver, which i know a lotta peeps did.
imagine a ss nova in colorado or norcal.
worthless on any type of snow or ice.
was there many trucks i the road back then?
how was getting around?
discuss

My dad's 1967 corvette stingray was his second car, he had a beater work truck or the dodge dart for day to day driving.

 

[UA_Iron]

fuck I used to freeze in my chevelle in the morning in san diego!

I can only imagine.

 

[binö]

My dad's 1967 corvette stingray was his second car, he had a beater work truck or the dodge dart for day to day driving.

so he had a family of rear wheel drive vehicles
toledo you might be able to get away with that.
alotta other places you'd be pwned.
like rolling down a thousand foot steep ravine pwned

 

[binö]

fuck I used to freeze in my chevelle in the morning in san diego!

I can only imagine.

yeah that and no a/c as well.
rear wheel drive and ice on mtn roads though fug that

 

[javaguru]

so he had a family of rear wheel drive vehicles
toledo you might be able to get away with that.
alotta other places you'd be pwned.
like rolling down a thousand foot steep ravine pwned

I'm not originally from Toledo, I'm from Central Ohio...a lot of steep hills in Holmes County, good sled riding country. We lived on "French Ridge" and the last bit of the drive off the ridge to high school down a steep county road was harrowing.

 

[redsamurai]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall.

C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

 

[chazk]

electric block heaters ( plugthe car in at night to keep it from freezing )
snow tires , chains on the wheels.

Most of the daily drivers are rusted out and long gone from the salt on the road.
On the sunday drives or summer time muscle rods survived upnorth aka the garage queens

 

[chazk]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall.

C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

I rember reading a soupped up datsun 280z came over to the usa in 1972 from japan and tore everything apart corvettes,cameros,super birds.
Literally dominated the race care era in the early 70's out in santa monica cali

In europe they were working on turbo engines in the late 60's early 70's that produced more Hp vs the US auto makers that kept building bigger blocks and heavier motors.

 

[RADAR]

I Still have an AMC Jeep CJ-5 1978 Golden Eagle in almost mint condition with 55,600 miles on the odo!

RADAR

 

[captainahole]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall.

C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

I own a muscle car it's my baby. I wouldn't expect a generation that thinks putting a toilet paper roll on their muffler to make it sound fast and mean would get it. there is no personality in today's car with the exception of a few higher end cars. Your mid and lower priced cars like toyota, nissan and mazda are almost the same mold.
There was distinction and rivalry among the cars of the past because they looked different than each other. Why would we worry about fuel consumption when fuel was 12 cents a litre about 50 cents a gallon.
How many of you can tear the heads off your car and rebuild it in a weekend by yourself. Unless your a mechanic none. your clueless that's what today's cars are all about.
You had a connection to your car more than any woman, you will never really get that.
My car door weighs more than some of the cars on the road today.
You felt safe. A fender bender might cost 600.00 to fix even at todays costs where a fender bender in today's car will cost 6000.00 cause their built like crap.
Muscle cars were and still are a status statement.
What type do you drive.
Tell you how much will your car appreciate in the coming years. My car doesn't go down in value it increases every year. Why because it is a status of what north america was all about.

 

[chazk]

I own a muscle car it's my baby. I wouldn't expect a generation that thinks putting a toilet paper roll on their muffler to make it sound fast and mean would get it. there is no personality in today's car with the exception of a few higher end cars. Your mid and lower priced cars like toyota, nissan and mazda are almost the same mold.
There was distinction and rivalry among the cars of the past because they looked different than each other. Why would we worry about fuel consumption when fuel was 12 cents a litre about 50 cents a gallon.
How many of you can tear the heads off your car and rebuild it in a weekend by yourself. Unless your a mechanic none. your clueless that's what today's cars are all about.
You had a connection to your car more than any woman, you will never really get that.
My car door weighs more than some of the cars on the road today.
You felt safe. A fender bender might cost 600.00 to fix even at todays costs where a fender bender in today's car will cost 6000.00 cause their built like crap.
Muscle cars were and still are a status statement.
What type do you drive.
Tell you how much will your car appreciate in the coming years. My car doesn't go down in value it increases every year. Why because it is a status of what north america was all about.

Thats the problem with north america they look at cars as status symbols.
Most countries look at cars as transportation and gear their cars towards better fuel milage.

Reason why all these new mustangs,dodge hemi's,ford expeditions
are all sitting on the carlots while people are still buying toyotas (cars and tundras) and even jap make suv's with better fuel ecnomey becuase the motors are desighned better

 

[captainahole]

Thats the problem with north america they look at cars as status symbols.
Most countries look at cars as transportation and gear their cars towards better fuel milage.

Reason why all these new mustangs,dodge hemi's,ford expeditions
are all sitting on the carlots while people are still buying toyotas (cars and tundras) and even jap make suv's with better fuel ecnomey becuase the motors are desighned better

The price of fuel will come down again as it has and the world will move on. The same thing happened in the late seventies and will happen again.

 

[UA_Iron]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall.

C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

3260 lbs (1482 kg) for 1970 SS 454 - curb weight. RPM band is where it should be, in the functional zone.

There's nothing worse than driving a car with no low end torque and has all its power at high rpms, it just fucken sucks and is not nearly as fun to drive. Front wheel drive with high rpm power...might as well be driving a mini-van.

A built chevy V8 should give you nearly 100k miles.

They do corner like shit, even worse after 30+ years. There are kits to make f-body camaros pull over a G on the skidpad.

Who cares about gas consumption? This isn't your daily driver.

 

[chazk]

The price of fuel will come down again as it has and the world will move on. The same thing happened in the late seventies and will happen again.

but will the north america big 3 go under first ?

 

[binö]

Thats the problem with north america they look at cars as status symbols. Most countries look at cars as transportation and gear their cars towards better fuel milage.

Reason why all these new mustangs,dodge hemi's,ford expeditions
are all sitting on the carlots while people are still buying toyotas (cars and tundras) and even jap make suv's with better fuel ecnomey becuase the motors are desighned better

lolo, if only us stupid n.americans view cars as status symbols, then explain all the euro high end cars
lambo
ferrari
mercedes
mazerati
bmw
it would appear they are just as concerned about status as we are

 

[jeffc]

Snow tires and sand bags. Good traction and weight over the wheels. I drove a 67 El Camino all winter last year without any problems (well, without any traction problems!)

 

[Mr. dB]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall.

C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

This man speaks the truth.

 

[ricco561]

I own a muscle car it's my baby. I wouldn't expect a generation that thinks putting a toilet paper roll on their muffler to make it sound fast and mean would get it. there is no personality in today's car with the exception of a few higher end cars. Your mid and lower priced cars like toyota, nissan and mazda are almost the same mold.
There was distinction and rivalry among the cars of the past because they looked different than each other. Why would we worry about fuel consumption when fuel was 12 cents a litre about 50 cents a gallon.
How many of you can tear the heads off your car and rebuild it in a weekend by yourself. Unless your a mechanic none. your clueless that's what today's cars are all about.
You had a connection to your car more than any woman, you will never really get that.
My car door weighs more than some of the cars on the road today.
You felt safe. A fender bender might cost 600.00 to fix even at todays costs where a fender bender in today's car will cost 6000.00 cause their built like crap.
Muscle cars were and still are a status statement.
What type do you drive.
Tell you how much will your car appreciate in the coming years. My car doesn't go down in value it increases every year. Why because it is a status of what north america was all about.

Got to agree, Bro.
Those cars had personality.
Give me a ’69 Camaro SS anytime.

 

[Mr. dB]

I own a muscle car it's my baby. I wouldn't expect a generation that thinks putting a toilet paper roll on their muffler to make it sound fast and mean would get it. there is no personality in today's car with the exception of a few higher end cars. Your mid and lower priced cars like toyota, nissan and mazda are almost the same mold.
There was distinction and rivalry among the cars of the past because they looked different than each other. Why would we worry about fuel consumption when fuel was 12 cents a litre about 50 cents a gallon.
How many of you can tear the heads off your car and rebuild it in a weekend by yourself. Unless your a mechanic none. your clueless that's what today's cars are all about.
You had a connection to your car more than any woman, you will never really get that.
My car door weighs more than some of the cars on the road today.
You felt safe. A fender bender might cost 600.00 to fix even at todays costs where a fender bender in today's car will cost 6000.00 cause their built like crap.
Muscle cars were and still are a status statement.
What type do you drive.
Tell you how much will your car appreciate in the coming years. My car doesn't go down in value it increases every year. Why because it is a status of what north america was all about.

Wow, you drank a lot of the koolaid.

You're insane if you think '60s iron is better in a crash than today's cars.

So cars had different personalities just because they looked different? Tell me about the difference between a Malibu SS, 442, GTO, and GS? Apart from the grille and the engine they were the same car.

Muscle cars appreciate because of nostalgic baby boomers. I'm old enough to remember when these cars were new. If you used a '60s American car as a daily driver, it was spent by 75,000 miles. The interior would be worn out, engine would be burning oil, you'd already have been through four sets of tires and three sets of shocks, headliner and weather stripping would be coming off, u-joints would be ready to fail, the cars were mechanically and cosmetically junk by 75K. Muscle cars are rare now, because so many of them were retired as junkers by 1975.

Don't get me wrong, I get the nostalgia too, and I'm not immune to the sound of a big V8 burbling, or the feel of the torque. But realistically, by no relevant measure were these actually Good Cars.

 

[redsamurai]

The price of fuel will come down again as it has and the world will move on. The same thing happened in the late seventies and will happen again.

and so that's why we should chill out and just passively accept mediocrity from detroit? Fuel will never go back down below a certain point. Just as a matter of principle I will never ever ever own a vehicle I use on a daily basis that gets less than 30 mpgs' "IN THE CITY". Just on principle. If detroit can't build that than fuck em, they will never earn my business because the japanese just build their shit better.

I have to take EXTREME exception to your prior statement that japanese cars are built like crap. I own an 09 corrolla and before that an 05........those things are fucking tanks. In both cars I got in accidents within the first week of the purchase........in both cases not my fault. The first time was in san francisco.......some little chinese girl nailed me from behind because she wasn't paying attention when I came to a stop. I got out and looked at her car and just said "oh shit" because I was sure my car was fucked just from looking at her hood which was pinched way the fuck up. When I got around to the back of my car I couldn't beleive it........I didn't see SHIT. There was "some" damage on close inspection however. The retaining wall on the inside of the trunk was slightly pushed in.......but on the body there was only a few minor scratches that you couldn't even see unless you got underneath the car. The shape of the bumper and the strength of the unibody design forced her car underneath mine. I was flabbergasted. I got a good chunk from her insurance but I never used it to fix anything cause it wasn't necessary. This was a leased car and the inspector never noticed shit when it was time to give it back.

The accident I had in the 09 was a bit more severe........I got pit laned on the highway by a dude next to me who locked up his breaks and swerved into me to avoid the collision in his lane with a car that had to slow down due to an oncoming traffic jam. He put me sideways going down the highway at approx 45-50 mph. I eventually t boned another which was in between me and the median wall. Yes, this time it was certainly a much more expensive fix......which I didn't have to pay of course. But again, I got out of the car convinced it was a total. It was the most severe accident I've ever been in. But I was able to drive it home after one of the tow guys wired up the rear bumper. Stuff was grinding in the front wheel wells all the way home though. Anyway, it was only body damage. Two of the 4 cars involved in the accident were complete totals, yet I had the most violent collision.

I'll give you the point on character........I owned my own motorcycle once so I know how it is with taking the thing apart and doing something. I get it. But not on the car that I depend on for everyday use. I'd love to buy an old mustang or camaro or hemi and be able to fix it up and drag it. But those are "toys" and fixing and draggin is a hobby. Those cars will not start up on demand in the dead of winter every morning. Japanese cars will. So while my corrolla may not be able to spin out the wheels without a serious redline clutch dump.......it's way fucking more dependable than anything detroit has EVER built. We all can't fix our own cars so having a vehicle that requires near weekly if not sometimes daily maintenance is out of the question.

That's my problem with detroit........they build the toys first and think that they can half ass the everyday cars. But what they don't seem to get is that the every day car is a technical challenge in and of itself. Making a car as dependable as a corrolla is very difficult. It takes years if not decades of steady incremental yearly improvements in all aspects of design and building. Little parts here and there that get tweaked every year become dependable. And any mechanic knows it's the little parts that fail most often and shitcan the whole car. Detroit doesn't seem to understand the japanese model. They build small dependable cars first, and then work that design concept upwards to make their supercars. The skyline's engine was originally designed off of a much smaller engine. That's why the japanese get more power from smaller block engines whereas detroit thinks the only way to make power is by building 7-8 liter engines whose block alone weighs as much as some small economy cars. Those engines are nice to play with........but they are not dependable, period.

Case in point is the show pinks. I used to watch that religiously. Even though they'd get beat by the bigger block american cars, the little japanese engines that guys were shooting assloads of NOS through just didn't seem to break down. If a jap car broke down it was usually something with the tranny or drivetrain. The american cars broke down constantly unless the guys knew what they were doing and did a complete rebuild. Any stock parts in those engines got pwned. The jap cars didn't need half as much shit done to them and they were handling a ton of boost. There was one civic that ran mismatched heads on purpose to create more compression.........you try that with an american engine.

 

[Mr. dB]

The price of fuel will come down again as it has and the world will move on. The same thing happened in the late seventies and will happen again.

Don't count on it. In the long term, it's likely that the present downturn is temporary. Don't get too used to it.

 

[captainahole]

Don't count on it. In the long term, it's likely that the present downturn is temporary. Don't get too used to it.

I don't worry about the price of fuel. I have more than enough disposable income to drive what I want. I will drive comfort before I worry about fuel consumption.

 

[rnch]

way back in the stoneage ('60's, 70's) my father got rid of my mother's various station wagons when they hit 60K, before something seriously expensive broken on them.

 

[chazk]

A old car is safer to drive then a new car ?
two words AIR BAGS

 

[Mr. dB]

A old car is safer to drive then a new car ?
two words AIR BAGS

Air bags, unibody construction, crumple zones...

 

[wills_got_rythm]

Air bags, unibody construction, crumple zones...

Many of the old cars WERE unibody. A lot of people dont understand that. They were unibody with a keel beam type structure for the engine mount(one beam mounted to each side of the body with stiffeners for strength). Unibody is a very old design and is much lighter than having a full box or "c" shape frame AND body.

Crumple zones are another story. The auto racing industry brought a lot of that technology into the designs.

Volvo was putting air bags in their cars since the 60's or maybe even before....

 

[wills_got_rythm]

you mean the era of worthless american junk? the era of big engines that lumber up and down the rpm band like retarded oafs? And i'm not even going to discuss corners.

I don't understand the infatuation americans have with big heavy cars that

A) corner like shit

B) if you want them to be reliable you have to do an engine rebuild every fall. C) only perform well a 1/4 mile at a time. Than you got to let em cool for an hour before you do anything meaningful.

D) do I even have to talk about the gas consumption?


nothing about american muscle cars has ever been considered "top of the line" in terms of technology. i don't understand it either. like we had some of the best engineers in the world and we told em to throw some shit together than take the rest of the year off and go golfing while the italians and germans made the elite supercars of the world.

Why would you think that? Just wonderin... I've built hundreds of engines and if you treat your engine right and service it when you are supposed to they will last a long time. That goes for any engine.

 

[wills_got_rythm]

Wow, you drank a lot of the koolaid.

You're insane if you think '60s iron is better in a crash than today's cars.

So cars had different personalities just because they looked different? Tell me about the difference between a Malibu SS, 442, GTO, and GS? Apart from the grille and the engine they were the same car.

Muscle cars appreciate because of nostalgic baby boomers. I'm old enough to remember when these cars were new. If you used a '60s American car as a daily driver, it was spent by 75,000 miles. The interior would be worn out, engine would be burning oil, you'd already have been through four sets of tires and three sets of shocks, headliner and weather stripping would be coming off, u-joints would be ready to fail, the cars were mechanically and cosmetically junk by 75K. Muscle cars are rare now, because so many of them were retired as junkers by 1975.

Don't get me wrong, I get the nostalgia too, and I'm not immune to the sound of a big V8 burbling, or the feel of the torque. But realistically, by no relevant measure were these actually Good Cars.

What were 1960's american roads like? Probably a little shitier than today. Besides back then things were'nt built to such tight tolerances as they are today. There are a lot better suspension designs that can take the weight and the shitty roads.

Computers have brought better tooling capabilities and therefore everything is made much better and tighter to a more exacting standard....

 

[Mr. dB]

Many of the old cars WERE unibody. A lot of people dont understand that. They were unibody with a keel beam type structure for the engine mount(one beam mounted to each side of the body with stiffeners for strength). Unibody is a very old design and is much lighter than having a full box or "c" shape frame AND body.

Crumple zones are another story. The auto racing industry brought a lot of that technology into the designs.

Volvo was putting air bags in their cars since the 60's or maybe even before....

I don't think you'll find airbags in any Volvo made before the late 1980s.

The 1960 Ford Falcon, and all the cars based on that design, had a semi-monocoque construction with an engine subframe. Most other full-size and mid-size American cars were body-on-frame until the mid-1970s. Cars based on the Falcon platform are Falcon-Comet-Meteor-Fairlane-Mustang-Cougar-Torino-Cyclone-Maverick and the variations on those themes.

 

[wills_got_rythm]

1I don't think you'll find airbags in any Volvo made before the late 980s.The 1960 Ford Falcon, and all the cars based on that design, had a semi-monocoque construction with an engine subframe. Most other full-size and mid-size American cars were body-on-frame until the mid-1970s. Cars based on the Falcon platform are Falcon-Comet-Meteor-Fairlane-Mustang-Cougar-Torino-Cyclone-Maverick and the variations on those themes.

I'd have to research that but I do remember seeing a show on History Channel about airbags and I could swear it was the 60's.

Maybe they just testing them back then....

 

[chazk]

I'd have to research that but I do remember seeing a show on History Channel about airbags and I could swear it was the 60's.

Maybe they just testing them back then....

testing them yes, In 1989 the united states made it manditory for all cars built from 90 on have air bags.

our volvo station wagon has front air bags,front side airbags and rear passanger air bags.
Id rather take a hit in out volvo then get whiplash, my neck ripped apart from a seat belt and face bashed into the steering wheel ( most 60's car did not have shoulder restraints only seat belts around the waist) riding in a 60's muscle car
Yes 60's car are big tanks and the car sees little damage but the person in its gets beat to hell.

 

[string_bean00]

testing them yes, In 1989 the united states mad it manditory for all cars built from 90 on have air bags.

i had a 94 chevy without air bags, was an option on it

 

[chazk]

i had a 94 chevy without air bags, was an option on it

it had a drivers airbag it was manditory federal law
unless it was a truck . truck became standard in 95

 

[string_bean00]

it had a drivers airbag it was manditory federal law

1994-2004 GMC Sonoma - Consumer Guide Automotive

"Year to Year Changes
1995 GMC Sonoma: A driver-side airbag arrived in mid-1995, along with daytime running lights. "

didnt have any airbag, i had the bruises to prove it

 

[string_bean00]

it had a drivers airbag it was manditory federal law
unless it was a truck . truck became standard in 95

ah now we are clear

 

[chazk]

1994-2004 GMC Sonoma - Consumer Guide Automotive

"Year to Year Changes
1995 GMC Sonoma: A driver-side airbag arrived in mid-1995, along with daytime running lights. "

didnt have any airbag, i had the bruises to prove it

trucks yes 95.... cars were in 90
my bad for putting them all in one group

 

[redsamurai]

I don't worry about the price of fuel. I have more than enough disposable income to drive what I want. I will drive comfort before I worry about fuel consumption.

so because you're well off you accept mediocre engineering? And news flash, to some people excessive fuel consumption can mean not making bills at the end of the month. Good for you for being mr. well off and all........but could you possibly manage to look at something from outside your own immediate surroundings? Maybe put yourself "for just a moment".......in someone else's shoes??? I know it's tough, and you'll probably have to detox after the experience with a nice mud bath and facial......but it's still a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[redsamurai]

oh, and opec's cutting production big time as of today. I'm assuming this means a decent hike in gas prices in the next week.

 

[Mr. dB]

testing them yes, In 1989 the united states made it manditory for all cars built from 90 on have air bags.

I had a '91 Honda with no airbags.

I believe the 1990 deadline was for passive restraints. They could be in the form of airbags or seatbelts that fasten themselves. That's when we saw the horrible motorized seatbelts.

In the case of my Honda, a CRX, it just had the seatbelt anchored to the driver's door, so you could get in and out without necessarily unfastening the belt.

 

[rnch]

I had a '91 Honda with no airbags.

I believe the 1990 deadline was for passive restraints. They could be in the form of airbags or seatbelts that fasten themselves. That's when we saw the horrible motorized seatbelts.

In the case of my Honda, a CRX, it just had the seatbelt anchored to the driver's door, so you could get in and out without necessarily unfastening the belt.

pre air bag mitsu's had a gawd-awfull siding trac system that un-reeled down along the windshield a-pillar everytime u started the engine...arrrrrgh!