Old Skool Cycles Vs. 2006 Cycles

[BigCracker]

This is geared more towards the older guys that learned about steroids before the internet was available.

Anyway-how come back in the day people did pyramids with their gear dosages? Is it because pct 411 wasn't available so introducing and reducing the roids gradually would be less harsh on the system? I also heard of guys doing orals 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. When did someone figure out consistent doses with no tapering up or down is better? Also, who developed the theories behind frontloading, bridging, stacking? Are these things truly effective? Or are they just an excuse to take more gear???

 

[AhMadKooL]

interesting... I had the same questions in my mind.... Plus how come they didn't use stuff to combat gyno and they didn't have gyno

 

[BigCracker]

interesting... I had the same questions in my mind.... Plus how come they didn't use stuff to combat gyno and they didn't have gyno

The only thing I knew of back then that remotely resembled pct was the implementatin of HCG the last 2 weeks of your cycle. It was supposed to make your gains "keepable". After some time I started hearing about clomid, but that's about it.

 

[AhMadKooL]

Hey BigCracker, when your talking "back then"; Around what time was that? 70s? 80s?

 

[gettnlarge01]

pyramiding was supposed to allow the body to not shut down at once[low dose at start of cycle] and allow the body to start its natural test production up again at end of cycle[tapering off].Orals were supposed to be so toxic that 3wks was all that was considered a safe on time,but since the active-life was so short a 3wk break was supposed to be plenty of time for the body to have a break.Bridging and stacking for me is very effective.That is what I was taught when I started,but I could be doing it wrong again right now because the info is always changing.

 

[BigCracker]

Hey BigCracker, when your talking "back then"; Around what time was that? 70s? 80s?

Mainly late 80's early 90's before anyone really knew about the internet.

 

[mikefear]

they didn't know about the physiology and the chemistry of the compounds and how they affected the hpta, etc.. they thought if you let your body slowly acclimate, shutdown wouldn't occur.. we now know this isn't true and just start off with the dose we want..

 

[theslime]

I also heard from a old timer of a way of pyramiding anadrol with 2 days off in between. Something like 1 pill 2 days in a row then 2 days off, 2 pills 2 days in a row then 2 days off, up to like 10 anadrol pills. I guess he must have referred to 25 mg pills but Im not sure. I just thought the idea was something Ive never heard of.

 

[JumpBallWinner]

interesting... I had the same questions in my mind.... Plus how come they didn't use stuff to combat gyno and they didn't have gyno

That's a good question. We hear alot about insane amounts of test and D-bol that Arnold took. And one would have to reasonably assume, the way all those guys trained and hung out together, that they were probably all doing similiar cycles. But yet, you watch pumping iron and see all of those huge guys in the gym and nobody has saggy nipples.

 

[BigCracker]

I also heard from a old timer of a way of pyramiding anadrol with 2 days off in between. Something like 1 pill 2 days in a row then 2 days off, 2 pills 2 days in a row then 2 days off, up to like 10 anadrol pills. I guess he must have referred to 25 mg pills but Im not sure. I just thought the idea was something Ive never heard of.

I'm pretty sure the only A-50 available back then was Syntex and they were 50 mgs. Also keep in mind supply was pretty limited back then so that might explain the extreme mgs. I'd really like to see how some of the guys on here would look if they had to rely solely on the black market for gear like I had to back then. Not only did you have to know the gym dealer, he had to think you were cool to do business with. Without the right social connections you either got sold B-12 as Anadrol 50 tabs or you didn't score at all. And God help the poor bastard that approached some big guy in the gym asking him for roids. Back then guys would flip out for accusing them of being juicers even when they were obviously on. Cycles were only acknowledged and discussed among a small circle of guys that knew and trusted each other.

 

[chazk]

watching the movie pumping iron might be a little misleading. You claim they dont have gyno of saggy tits.
well your looking at the top elite at the time in 1975 mro's and mr universe contestents.
seeing pumping iron allows to you see the top 20-30 guys back in the day.
when in fact lots of guys 100,000's of thousands lifted all over the world took roids and did get gyno and side effects.

one pro was asked what sets the pros above the amatures and allows them to move up higher in the sport to make it a proffesion.
the secret pro said exactly this " the guys that can stomach large amounts fo drugs will grow and will move up .the ones that cant will never make it"

so watching pumping iron your looking at the best of the best of the old schoolers best genetics and best ability to handle the drugs with out the side effects.
So you cant just watch and assume hey no one back then got gyno becuase they did. it took arnold 10 years clean bulking on roids from 1965 to 1975 to get that look in pumping iron .While today alot of guys want to take triple the drugs and grow fast enough to be on stage in 3-4 years

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

well i guess we'll se the real difference in a few years when we see what kill arnold...

 

[JuicedAthletics]

Old Skool Cycles Vs. 2006 Cycles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is geared more towards the older guys that learned about steroids before the internet was available.

Anyway-how come back in the day people did pyramids with their gear dosages? Is it because pct 411 wasn't available so introducing and reducing the roids gradually would be less harsh on the system? I also heard of guys doing orals 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. When did someone figure out consistent doses with no tapering up or down is better? Also, who developed the theories behind frontloading, bridging, stacking? Are these things truly effective? Or are they just an excuse to take more gear???

Cracker... I wasnt around in the 70's and didnt cycle in the 80's but I do think that prymiding is still a solid choice.. I dont necessarily think that each week you ramp up the dose but I tend to believe that every 3 weeks or so adding 100-150mg to your dose is going to snap your body into another growth phase.. I have cycled both ways straight dose and staggered dose and i find a much easier recovery and better gains when i up my dose every few weeks.. I dont know if its just me but my body seems to adapt to a certain level of test after 3-4 weeks and i have to cange things up..

 

[BigCracker]

Cracker... I wasnt around in the 70's and didnt cycle in the 80's but I do think that prymiding is still a solid choice.. I dont necessarily think that each week you ramp up the dose but I tend to believe that every 3 weeks or so adding 100-150mg to your dose is going to snap your body into another growth phase.. I have cycled both ways straight dose and staggered dose and i find a much easier recovery and better gains when i up my dose every few weeks.. I dont know if its just me but my body seems to adapt to a certain level of test after 3-4 weeks and i have to cange things up..

Why doesn't anyone still do it then? I've never seen it recommended here.

 

[pursuit]

Cracker... I wasnt around in the 70's and didnt cycle in the 80's but I do think that prymiding is still a solid choice.. I dont necessarily think that each week you ramp up the dose but I tend to believe that every 3 weeks or so adding 100-150mg to your dose is going to snap your body into another growth phase.. I have cycled both ways straight dose and staggered dose and i find a much easier recovery and better gains when i up my dose every few weeks.. I dont know if its just me but my body seems to adapt to a certain level of test after 3-4 weeks and i have to cange things up..

Taking from a study in pubmed:
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=2104626)
"T enanthate (300 mg/week), was no more effective than 100 mg/week in suppressing LH, FSH, and sperm production"

The point being that even a low dose of 100mg per week will shut you down the same as higher doses so whats the point, unless you want to start off your cycle even lower than that which would be useless and ineffective.

 

[blut wump]

The point, as such, is to allow your body to acclimatize to change. You can start out with your 1000mg on day one or you can ramp up to it over a month or more having started at 250.

If you start at a low dose then the body gets a chance to adjust to the changed hormone levels without suffering a huge change. After a week or two, you bump again, allowing for a fresh adjustment.

If you start high then you are giving an enormous surge to your body. Hormonal surges lead to increased likelyhood of sides. You might also find that the larger amount is simply too much for you. If it is simply too much then that's unfortunate because you're going to have to tough it out while the ester clears.

Tapering down is the reverse of this. If you stop without tapering down from a very high dose then you are going from a high circulation of test to very low in a short time. Taking the time to taper down gives your body chance to adjust to the reduced levels and the return to normal test is less of a shock. Your overall gains from a taper / pyramid might well turn out to be less than a full, sustained blast but you are more in control of the process.

Anyway, that's the theory.

You can also think of it as similar to running 750 of enan versus 700 of prop. When you run prop, you get a surge much sooner. Enan has a built-in ramp to build blood levels. Max blood levels, correspondingly, will be higher on the enan as it does build up as compared with the full cycle of prop which clears quicker.

Back in pre-history, there was just test suspension. Ramping gave a way to emulate what is now done with esters.

 

[acneman]

good thread

 

[blut wump]

Another way to ramp up could be do adjust frequency. Say, you started at 250 E5D, that'd be 50mg per day or 350 per week. Bumping to E4D would be 62.5 per day or 437 per week. Hitting twice per week Mo/Thu would be 500. The next step would be E3D for 583 per week. Etc.

 

[get456]

I remember when I started learning about this stuff circa 1998, pyramiding was the only way to go... everyone pyramided everything... orals and oils.

Also, maybe i just ran in different circles but I NEVER heard anyone suggest a cycle over 10 weeks... 8 was normally the max and the dosages were no where near what is commonly seen here today... seems like every other person is on a gram of something per week, then 750mg of test was a TON.

Also, as for PCT... The only thing I ever knew about or could even get my hands on was clomid... Never seemed like anyone really suggested anything else or made it a point to add it.

Def a lot more knowledge around today, and availibility of PCT is SO much greater.

 

[UA_Iron]

i think they tried to stay leaner year round

that helps prevent gyno

 

[monopoly19]

Taper down with adex has worked great for me in recovery and PCT.

I believe that 100mg will suppress you as much as 500mg, but I swear to god I felt 100 times better when I tapered down from 500mg/wk to 200mg/wk.

Monopoly

 

[montenegro]

Many DID have issues with gyno. A lot of the professionals, I believe, had surgery to get rid of the gyno or just plain didn't come down with it. We didn't use clean-up meds because nobody (at least where I was from) ever knew about them nor did we know the true physiology of gear. We did know that if used too long (greater than a couple of months) that there could be issues with natural test shutdown, but that was about all we knew.

Cycles of Test, dbol, anavar, and oral winnie stacks were all very common. We were mainly concerned with getting the stuff and simply followed guidelines by the other juicers in the gym. The good part, though, is that the stuff we were getting was from the US and we knew it was the real stuff, rather than getting a shipment in from mexico or vetstuff.

This is geared more towards the older guys that learned about steroids before the internet was available.

Anyway-how come back in the day people did pyramids with their gear dosages? Is it because pct 411 wasn't available so introducing and reducing the roids gradually would be less harsh on the system? I also heard of guys doing orals 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. When did someone figure out consistent doses with no tapering up or down is better? Also, who developed the theories behind frontloading, bridging, stacking? Are these things truly effective? Or are they just an excuse to take more gear???

 

[gettinripped]

props to all in this thread. definately the best thread in sometime. too bad good threads like this get lost in the bullshit.

 

[a creed]

+1

 

[The Shadow]

I was/am a BIG proponent of front loading...there are some great debates about that in the archives.

I dont understand why it isnt done more frequently with the longer esters.

Plug the half lives into a calculator - the rest is math

 

[smoke67]

Taper down with adex has worked great for me in recovery and PCT.

I believe that 100mg will suppress you as much as 500mg, but I swear to god I felt 100 times better when I tapered down from 500mg/wk to 200mg/wk.

Monopoly

I tried tapering down on my last cycle and it made a huge diff. I recovered faster and seem to have kept more of my gains. I will continue to do this from now on. It may be old school but it worked for me.

 

[gettinripped]

I tried tapering down on my last cycle and it made a huge diff. I recovered faster and seem to have kept more of my gains. I will continue to do this from now on. It may be old school but it worked for me.

interesting, will keep that in mind for upcoming cycle.

 

[1Mistake2006]

Most of them got their info from The Underground Steroid Handbook 1 & 2....late 80's.......

 

[BigCracker]

Most of them got their info from The Underground Steroid Handbook 1 & 2....late 80's.......

I had a bootlegged copy printed on a xerox copier. I think my whole gym copied my copy of someone elses copy, etc. Eventually they started publishing it on no photo copy paper. That was the 1st and only resource for relatively accurate AS 411. RIP Dan Duchaine. He did more for the sport of bodybuilding than Joe Weider ever did. Kudos to Bill Phillips too for being the 1st person to publish truthful AS 411 in a monthly magazine. Yeah, he sold out-but on his way up he was legit.

 

[1Mistake2006]

I had a bootlegged copy printed on a xerox copier. I think my whole gym copied my copy of someone elses copy, etc. Eventually they started publishing it on no photo copy paper. That was the 1st and only resource for relatively accurate AS 411. RIP Dan Duchaine. He did more for the sport of bodybuilding than Joe Weider ever did. Kudos to Bill Phillips too for being the 1st person to publish truthful AS 411 in a monthly magazine. Yeah, he sold out-but on his way up he was legit.

True, true...Bill made millions of that book!!

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

i would still taper with longer esters like CYP

but for tht past few years i have only used fast acting esters

it's so funny remembering those days ...it seemed like Gold's gyms were springing up all over the place ...Tom Platz was on the cover of magazines ...you had a brotherhood at the gym ...i swear i never wore those ballon pants though but they were popular ...chicks had big hair and drove camaros ...funny shat!

 

[The Shadow]

I advise dropping longer esters mid cycle for shorter ones as the cycle finishes.

Cyp/enan - prop/susp
tren enan- tren ace


etc