OK....I am cynical about the sky marshal program. Anyone else?

[polarpixie]

YEAH. GREAT. Sky Marshall program being re-enforced again. HOORAY. Yes, there is alot of enthusiasm from people right now from people who want to apply to become a sky marshall, and that is fantastic!!! But, when all of this hype and media attention dies down, don't you think the enthusiasm for sky marshalls (wanting to be one, or just supportive of it) will die down too? It's sad....but over time, people WILL forget why they were so enthusiastic about or wished to become a sky marshall in the first place. Instead of the highly respected position they will presently hold bas a sky marshall due to the recent eventsw, over time, as sad as it might be, I think their positions will be equated to something along the lines of department store undercover investigators. The enthusiasm will die out..and terrorism will strike once again, because they will have been watching, and they will strike when our guards are down.

It just pisses me off when the people come up with this GREAT idea (i.e. re-enforcing/reenacting the sky marshall program) and people applaud it! But if you think about it, they are only appeasing the common people by presenting a very simplistic, easily understandable solution to an incredibly complex problem!!! GIMME A REAL SOLUTION!!!! Or at least tell me you are working on a real solution rather than a temporary fix!!!!


Dunno if any of you have another take on this, I'm open to all opinion, but this was really making mad and I felt the need to rant!

 

[Punschkrapfen]

i agree with this
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=792&FS=Airplanes+and+Property+Protection
and this
http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=783&month=36&title=Safe+Travel&id=36
article.
I don't remember that big government was a republican campaign promise ...

 

[roidog420]

YEAH. GREAT. Sky Marshall program being re-enforced again. HOORAY. Yes, there is alot of enthusiasm from people right now from people who want to apply to become a sky marshall, and that is fantastic!!! But, when all of this hype and media attention dies down, don't you think the enthusiasm for sky marshalls (wanting to be one, or just supportive of it) will die down too? It's sad....but over time, people WILL forget why they were so enthusiastic about or wished to become a sky marshall in the first place. Instead of the highly respected position they will presently hold bas a sky marshall due to the recent eventsw, over time, as sad as it might be, I think their positions will be equated to something along the lines of department store undercover investigators. The enthusiasm will die out..and terrorism will strike once again, because they will have been watching, and they will strike when our guards are down.


*************If they do have skymarshals, they goddamn better well be trained to deal with the public better than the police on the fuckin ground are. All the police are trained to do is detain, control & shoot people. They take absolutely ZERO training on how to deal with people & to differentiate the REAL bad guys from someone who is just having a bad day. That being the case, most cops look at the public at large as the enemy, and employ an "us vs. them" attitude. Why the hell do you think that so many innocent guys are getting shot? The frigging guy in NYC who was shot like 50 times for holding a ham sandwich--come on!!! If that is the training they are gonna recieve(and it most likely will be)then they better get ready for the time when some moron rent-a-skycop shoots someone in the head for bitching about the food or is just obnoxious & drunk and acting like an ass. IM TELLING YOU>>>>>THIS SHIT WILL HAPPEN! WAIT & SEE!



It just pisses me off when the people come up with this GREAT idea (i.e. re-enforcing/reenacting the sky marshall program) and people applaud it! But if you think about it, they are only appeasing the common people by presenting a very simplistic, easily understandable solution to an incredibly complex problem!!! GIMME A REAL SOLUTION!!!! Or at least tell me you are working on a real solution rather than a temporary fix!!!!



*****************I agree. If you think about it---the idiot politicians did the same thing with their little "drug war" In that case(as we all know)the simple solution was to just keep throwing everyone in jail & eventually people wont want to get high anymore & we will have a drug-free America. MMMHMM...that was some smart thinkin there eh?!



Dunno if any of you have another take on this, I'm open to all opinion, but this was really making mad and I felt the need to rant!

 

[Celt]

I am cool with a temporary fix that will improve safety.

I do agree that training is a must for these positions.

I would also hope that this quick fix, would constantly be improved upon.

Something like this is very necessary, for the short and immediate term.

I am pretty concerned with the economy right now, also. Seems like we are fucked there too.

 

[plifter]

I think the sky marshall thing could possibly cause more problems. They want these guys to be armed. I'm assuming with a gun. Well there will probably be only one per flight. What happens if 12 Palestinians jump him at once? He might kill a couple of them but he will eventually be overtaken. Now the terrorists have a gun. There will be no need for them to try to sneak a gun on the plane, it's already there. Plus, imagine what happens if they shoot a window out? Not a pleasant thought.

I think more thorough security at the airports is a better solution. Face it, America's airport security sucks. I got on a plane in Houston without ever being checked!

 

[bigguns7]

With respect to the enthusiasm about taking the job, I totally agree. People will not be nearly as excited about being a skymarshall in about six months.

But, the skymarshall program is a very good solution to our problem. It's all about perceived risk. In reality, we only need one skymarshall in the whole program. As long as terrorists have the perception that there COULD be a plain-clothed armed officer on the plane, the ease with which these terrorist acts are committed will be highly reduced.

Did you ever go into a department store and see all those black domes hanging from the ceiling? How many of those do you think have cameras in them? There's probably only one, but shoplifters perceive that they are everywhere, thereby reducing the risk of theft.

We really don't even need skymarshalls at all, all we need is for the department of justice to make a statement that undercover skymarshalls are everywhere.

 

[mdd]

12 Palestinians should NEVER be allowed on the same flight in the first place..

I think the sky marshall thing could possibly cause more problems. They want these guys to be armed. I'm assuming with a gun. Well there will probably be only one per flight. What happens if 12 Palestinians jump him at once? He might kill a couple of them but he will eventually be overtaken. Now the terrorists have a gun. There will be no need for them to try to sneak a gun on the plane, it's already there. Plus, imagine what happens if they shoot a window out? Not a pleasant thought.

I think more thorough security at the airports is a better solution. Face it, America's airport security sucks. I got on a plane in Houston without ever being checked!

 

[starfish]

How could they ever make that program safe? Even with background checks, one slip-up and you just paid someone to get on a plane with a gun.

starfish

 

[polarpixie]

I think the sky marshall thing could possibly cause more problems. They want these guys to be armed. I'm assuming with a gun. Well there will probably be only one per flight. What happens if 12 Palestinians jump him at once? He might kill a couple of them but he will eventually be overtaken. Now the terrorists have a gun. There will be no need for them to try to sneak a gun on the plane, it's already there. Plus, imagine what happens if they shoot a window out? Not a pleasant thought.

I think more thorough security at the airports is a better solution. Face it, America's airport security sucks. I got on a plane in Houston without ever being checked!

I agree completely! I don't think guns should be allowed on planes at all for that very reason -- that someone else now has a chance to take the gun out of the sky marshall's hands. AND, this goes beyond terrorists, someone else on that plane may have their own agenda for stealing the officer's gun. What if some depressed, suicidal fool decides he wants to off himself right then and there and steals the gun from the officer? Or some other guy has an argument with his girl and decides he wants to shoot her?

I think there should be sky marshalls, but they should be unarmed, and trained in incapacitating dangerous people without the use of weapons.

"more thorough security at the airports is a better solution. " I also think this would be a better use of time and money. I don't remember which airport it was, I think it may have been Minneapolis, but, I was holding a bottle of water, and the guard actually asked to watch me take a sip of it. Exactly, WTF?? Then he told me it was to make sure it wasn't some kind of dangerous chemical. Cool! If you saw me, you would not think I could possibly pose a danger to anyone, let alone hurt a fly! Anyway, I have carried a bottle of water at many other airports since and have never been asked that question again.

But, the skymarshall program is a very good solution to our problem. It's all about perceived risk. In reality, we only need one skymarshall in the whole program. As long as terrorists have the perception that there COULD be a plain-clothed armed officer on the plane, the ease with which these terrorist acts are committed will be highly reduced.

Perceived risk is good...but not enough of a deterrent. I mean, stores get robbed all the time right? Even though the robbers know that the clerk may potentially have access to a gun right under the cash register....and I'm not so sure terrorists are too worried about risking harm to themselves as long as there's a chance the job of taking everyone down with them is accomplished.

How could they ever make that program safe? Even with background checks, one slip-up and you just paid someone to get on a plane with a gun.

starfish

YEP. So very true. Although, I think they are only enlisting people who are already a part of the police/military force to become a sky marshall, but ....what if some crook impersonates them and gets on the plane? The thing about airline staffing is that it is not like a corporate job where you usually know who everyone is. You work with so many different people, and sometimes the flight attendants have never even met the pilot before, and so making it easier to fake an identity.

 

[chesty]

As for the marshalls being armed they should be. So there are twelve terrorists on the plane and he gets two or three (assuming only one marshall) Cool. So they jump him and take his gun, big deal, they are already going to use the plane for a bomb and kill everyone on board. I would rather go down fighting than sitting there waiting to be executed.

That argument is also silly, because then it could be said not to arm the police or the military because they might get their weapon taken away and now the bad guys have a gun. Pleeeze, there is always that chance, but you have to take the chance in order to be able to fend off an attack.

 

[bigguns7]

As for the marshalls being armed they should be. So there are twelve terrorists on the plane and he gets two or three (assuming only one marshall) Cool. So they jump him and take his gun, big deal, they are already going to use the plane for a bomb and kill everyone on board. I would rather go down fighting than sitting there waiting to be executed.

That argument is also silly, because then it could be said not to arm the police or the military because they might get their weapon taken away and now the bad guys have a gun. Pleeeze, there is always that chance, but you have to take the chance in order to be able to fend off an attack.

Exactly. It has already been proven that it is easy to take over an airplane WITHOUT a weapon. They had boxcutters and plastic knives, but they probably could have accomplished the same thing unarmed. Security in the airports will do nothing. Tommorow I could walk into the airport with nothing in my hands and no carry-on or anything. Now, how long do you think it would take me to incapacitate, with my bare hands, the five 98 pound stewardesses on the plane? About 45 seconds. Now, if there are six more men just like me on that plane, UNARMED, then how long do you think it would take the seven of us to kill, subdue, or knock-out the pilot and co-pilot of the plane? About 15 seconds.

Now, what is the ONLY hope we have in that situation? A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL WITH A GUN. If they take his gun, the plane was going down anyway, but it was worth a shot (no pun intended.)

This is the only thing that may POSSIBLY stop a terrorist attack once the unarmed terrorists have made it through your suggested "better security measures." I challenge anyone to come up with a better, more plausible solution.

 

[slickdadd]

well, stopping some guys that are unarmed is a lot easier then stopping some guys with a gun. The situation isn't necessarily over just because they have control of the plane. If they are totally unarmed, they are totally outnumbered as well and i'd take that over the chance of them having a gun to have supreme control. Its hard to pick a side. If the situation ever gets so hopeless as to where a gun is necessary, number wise, the situation probably has a better percentage chance of being more dangerous then safer. If anyone knows what i mean, its hard to put the situation in my head in words.

 

[talonracer]

I think people forget that the sky marshals will be dressed like all the other passengers, so he/she will most likely have the element of surprise on the hijackers.

 

[plifter]

As for the marshalls being armed they should be. So there are twelve terrorists on the plane and he gets two or three (assuming only one marshall) Cool. So they jump him and take his gun, big deal, they are already going to use the plane for a bomb and kill everyone on board.

The point is that in this situation without an armed marshall the terrorists would not have access to the gun. Once they get the gun that belonged to the marshall the Palestinians can control the plane. If this same marshall were un-armed then there would simply be 12 palestinians without weapons trying to hijack the plane.

 

[YellowD]

We definitely need something to enforce law in planes, whether sky marshals are that answer is debatable. But you figure, once that plane leaves the runway, there is nothing anyone on the ground can do if something goes awry up there. And regardless of security checks, background checks, ID checks, passenger screening, if someone wants to hijack a plane, they will find out a way to do it. We need a way to screen the intent of passengers as opposed to the passengers themselves, and of course, that is impractical. Perhaps they won't use boxcutters next time, maybe they'll just start breaking people's necks and taking hostages while making threats. Either way, if an organized group of individuals are set on taking over a plane, with the current situation, there is little anyone can do about it.

Sure you can make it harder to bring things onto the plane, but once they get past that barrier, they're more than halfway to completing their goal. There has to be something on the plane to keep them from acheiving their goals.

 

[plifter]

You could always put 4 unarmed guards on the plane. But think of how much money it would cost. I still think security should be taken care of on the ground. These recent incidents happened because of our own stupidity. To start with we actually allowed the knives on the planes. Second, from my flying experience the existing security measures aren't very strictly enforced. I have a friend that went through the metal detector with a baby stroller. The metal detector went off and the airport "security" people didn't even bother to check out the stroller. He could have had a damn gun in the thing.

 

[chesty]

You all are forgetting one thing. The plane that went down in PA was going to be crashed any way. If there had been armed officers on board, it may not have crashed and all would be home save for the dickhead terrorists.

I hate cowards.

 

[huntmaster]

the sky marshall program is not intended to be a solution.

It is intended to be a small peice to the puzzle.

It will be a step in the right direction.

That is what matters.