Obese weight loss calculating caloric needs?

[oneandthesame]

If one were obese lets say 300 lb. middleaged female 5'5".
Now if we took 300 x 12 that would be a bmr of 3600 calories.
Even if we took off 500 cals that's still stuffing down 3100 cals a day at which I doubt an obese person could lose weight. Thats where I need help from all the diet guru's. Trying to help an obese friend lose some weight by nailing a diet down that she can start tracking some numbers. Help me please. I need number of calories per day and ratio's of p c and f's.

 

[Mr.X]

If one were obese lets say 300 lb. middleaged female 5'5".
Now if we took 300 x 12 that would be a bmr of 3600 calories.
Even if we took off 500 cals that's still stuffing down 3100 cals a day at which I doubt an obese person could lose weight. Thats where I need help from all the diet guru's. Trying to help an obese friend lose some weight by nailing a diet down that she can start tracking some numbers. Help me please. I need number of calories per day and ratio's of p c and f's.

Just because the calories sound high, it does not mean they are actually high. It's all objectively determined by the person's weight. Start her off at 3600 cal, and gradually (every 2 weeks or so) decrease the caloric intake by 100 cal. No less then 2000 for the first run. When you are obese, the weight does NOT just come off in 8 weeks, it takes a LONG time w/ the proper diet and nutrition. Gradual is way better then fast in her case.

Why don't you put her on a simple: 30%protein/20%carbs/50% fat..........
protein is all lean like chicken breastes and egg whites
carbs all fiberous in some way like veggies and oatmeal
fats all EFA's like flaxseed oil, olive oil, walnut oil, udo's choice oil, sesamese seed oil etc....

Mr.X

 

[oneandthesame]

sounds real good Mr. X. Thanks for your guidance.

 

[MkZk]

Look if she were OBESE....and if she really wants to lose weight, do this: maximum of 30g of fat per day. Around 80g of protein. Around 150g of carbs. Use an appetite suppresent like Adipex.

Lots of cardio.

She will lose weight fast. She will motivated a lot because the weight comes off fast. She will keep the weight off once she get to her desired weight with a maintainence diet combined with a exercise regime.

But I think the key here is hard dieting and lots of cardio to bring her down to her desired weight first.

 

[Mr.X]

Look if she were OBESE....and if she really wants to lose weight, do this: maximum of 30g of fat per day. Around 80g of protein. Around 150g of carbs. Use an appetite suppresent like Adipex.

Lots of cardio.

She will lose weight fast. She will motivated a lot because the weight comes off fast. She will keep the weight off once she get to her desired weight with a maintainence diet combined with a exercise regime.

But I think the key here is hard dieting and lots of cardio to bring her down to her desired weight first.

Low-fat diets are the WORST thing you can do for an obese person, especially w/ a higher carb diet. Give her healthy fats and you'll see her improve gradually. NEVER put her on a low-fat diet, nor a low calorie diet.

Mr.X

 

[oneandthesame]

Low-fat diets are the WORST thing you can do for an obese person, especially w/ a higher carb diet. Give her healthy fats and you'll see her improve gradually. NEVER put her on a low-fat diet, nor a low calorie diet.

Mr.X

okay, but what about the apidex? that sounds like it would work really good, but she does have a little high blood pressure.

 

[Mr.X]

okay, but what about the apidex? that sounds like it would work really good, but she does have a little high blood pressure.

Do not give her apidex or ANY other supplements, besides the basic fiber and r-ala. She needs to adapt her body to losing some fat first before jumping on these pill. Trust me, DIET/CARDIO/WIEGHTS/SLEEP/WILL! is all she needs for now....not a magic solution

Mr.X

 

[MkZk]

Low-fat diets are the WORST thing you can do for an obese person, especially w/ a higher carb diet. Give her healthy fats and you'll see her improve gradually. NEVER put her on a low-fat diet, nor a low calorie diet.

Please tell me the physiological reasons why on obese person should not be put on a low calorie diet. And why not low fat too.

You claim that low fat diet are the WORST for an obese person.

My advice seems sound. Hard dieting would create a negative energy balance. A few weeks of this combined with lots of cardio. Now I'm not going into the debate of fats. EFAs have their place. But if an obese person needs to lose weight, a few weeks of low fat isn't going to do any harm.

My advice would work, and so will yours, but yours would be slower and the obese person would not be as motivated. However, I think it's very presumptious to make a sweeping statement like "low-fat diets are the worst thing"

By the way, do u think 150g of carbs is high? I think not!

 

[oneandthesame]

btw she said she did do apidex 30 years ago and lost 100 pounds in less than 6 months with no exercise at all. What she is doing now is trying to go without eating until she is hungry and then only eat a small amount. I think she will hit a wall very quickly on this plan but hopefully I can get her more structure before she get's too discouraged. She seems to be getting the right frame of mind though, a quiet determinism, as though if she had had an epiphany of sorts, I hope this to be anyway.

 

[MkZk]

She seems to be getting the right frame of mind though, a quiet determinism

That's great. She will make it, especially if she sees fast tangible results. That's why I advocate extreme dieting in the short term. After this short term period she can switch to a diet a few hundred calories below maintaince.

For an obese or even just a normal person, the motivational factor is extremely important. Once they see fast results, they will more likely stick to a diet/training plan.

yes, Adipex will help her willpower to resist food. I don't see the rationale of Mr. X's advice of her needing "adapt her body to losing some fat first before jumping on Adipex." But if she has problems with hypertension or some cardiovascular disease, then it's a different story.

Get her to discuss it with her doc first then have her go all out to kill the flab.

 

[Mr.X]

Please tell me the physiological reasons why on obese person should not be put on a low calorie diet. And why not low fat too.
WHEN YOU PUT AN OBESE PERSON ON A LOW-FAT DIET, LOW CAL; IN ABOUT 2 WEEKS THEY WILL STOP LOSING FAT THE REASON FOR THIS IS THE LOWERED T4-T3 CONVERSION....DUE TO THE LACK OF FAT INGESTED, THE BODY WILL TRIGGOR THE FAILSAFE MECHANISM AND FURTHER TRY TO STORE MORE BODYFAT IN CASE THIS PROLONGS

You claim that low fat diet are the WORST for an obese person.
READ ABOVE

My advice seems sound. Hard dieting would create a negative energy balance.
NOT HARD DIETING; DIETING THAT IS MOST BENEFICIAL IS OFTEN THE DIET W/ THE MOST HEALHTY FAT AND LEAST AMOUNT OF CALORIC DEFICIT

A few weeks of this combined with lots of cardio. Now I'm not going into the debate of fats. EFAs have their place. But if an obese person needs to lose weight, a few weeks of low fat isn't going to do any harm.
THIS IS NOT A DIET FOR A FEW WEEKS, SHE NEEDS TO DO THIS FOR YEARS; THUS, SHE NEEDS TO START SLOW W/ A HEALTHY DIET W/ BMR CALORIES OR A LITTLE MORE....
THE CARDIO HAS TO BE DONE TO IMPROVE CARDIOVASCULAR HEALTH; WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT HER RUNNING A MARATHON, JUST PLAIN OLD WALKING...FOR NOW

My advice would work, and so will yours, but yours would be slower and the obese person would not be as motivated.
NOT TRUE...A LOW FAT/LOW CARB DIET WILL PUT THAT OBESE PERSON, WHICH IS USED TO EATING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CALORIES, IN A STARVATION MODE

However, I think it's very presumptious to make a sweeping statement like "low-fat diets are the worst thing"
YES, IF YOU TAKE IT OUT OF CONTEXT...FOR, I SAID "LOW FAT DIETS ARE THE WORST THING FOR AN OBESE PERSON


By the way, do u think 150g of carbs is high? I think not!
AND WHY NOT? MAYBE YOU FORGOT THAT A LOWER INSULIN ENVIRONMENT WILL YIELD MUCH LESS HUNGER AND HIGHER OVERALL FAT-LOSS....MAYBE YOU FORGOT THAT THE LOWER THE INSULIN THE MORE CHANCE FOR HER STORED FAT TO BE CONVERTED TO KETONES TAKING HER ON THE ROAD TO A FULL BLOWN FAT-LOSS PERIOD....

Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

btw she said she did do apidex 30 years ago and lost 100 pounds in less than 6 months with no exercise at all. What she is doing now is trying to go without eating until she is hungry and then only eat a small amount. I think she will hit a wall very quickly on this plan but hopefully I can get her more structure before she get's too discouraged. She seems to be getting the right frame of mind though, a quiet determinism, as though if she had had an epiphany of sorts, I hope this to be anyway.

See, if she is too dependent on the pill; what happens is that after, at some point, she stops, she will GAIN all the weight BACK as I assume she did that one time you just described. For her, proper diet and exercise and a lot of small meals to keep her satisfied can be the best thing my friend.

Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

That's great. She will make it, especially if she sees fast tangible results. That's why I advocate extreme dieting in the short term. After this short term period she can switch to a diet a few hundred calories below maintaince.
yes, but by this time it can be too late...where when she goes back to "normal" dieting, whatever that might mean, she will likely gain weight because of the starvation mode she was in

For an obese or even just a normal person, the motivational factor is extremely important. Once they see fast results, they will more likely stick to a diet/training plan.
yes it is,,,that is why we have simple things like talking to people for motivation, reading about it, family support and of course the good old 5-HTP (over the counter)....
REMEMBER, this is LONG term for her, not just 2 week water weight loss....she needs to do this for a few years and do it correctly or she will be destined to fail

yes, Adipex will help her willpower to resist food. I don't see the rationale of Mr. X's advice of her needing "adapt her body to losing some fat first before jumping on Adipex." But if she has problems with hypertension or some cardiovascular disease, then it's a different story.
SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE A DISEASE....SHE IS OBVIOUSLY OBESE, THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE...THERE IS NO QUICK FIX TO THE PROLEM; THE BEST WAY IS TO EASE HER IN TO A LIFE TIME OF HEALHY LIVING WHILE GRADUALLY HELPING HER TAKE THE WIEGHT OFF (FAT), IF SHE JUMPS INTO USING DRUGS AND THEN COMES OFF, SHE WILL GAIN BACK ALL THE WEIGHT BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO CONTROL HER APPETITE NOR HOW TO DO EVERYTHING RIGHT W/O THE PILL...
THERE IS MUCH MORE REASONING TO THIS IF YOU EVER TRAINED AN OBESE PERSON, YOU WOULD KNOW....


Mr.X

 

[MkZk]

Mr. X, why all the caps?

WHEN YOU PUT AN OBESE PERSON ON A LOW-FAT DIET, LOW CAL; IN ABOUT 2 WEEKS THEY WILL STOP LOSING FAT THE REASON FOR THIS IS THE LOWERED T4-T3 CONVERSION

Yes, T4-T3 conversion would be lowered, but not completely impaired. She will still lose weight because of her low calorie diet combined with lots of cardio.

DIETING THAT IS MOST BENEFICIAL IS OFTEN THE DIET W/ THE MOST HEALHTY FAT AND LEAST AMOUNT OF CALORIC DEFICIT

I would completely agree with you on this. However, you forget that my plan for extreme dieting is only for the SHORT term. If you properly read my post, I said that after the short term, she should go on a diet a few hundred calories below maintainence.

THIS IS NOT A DIET FOR A FEW WEEKS, SHE NEEDS TO DO THIS FOR YEARS; THUS, SHE NEEDS TO START SLOW W/ A HEALTHY DIET W/ BMR CALORIES OR A LITTLE MORE....

Again, you completely ignore the fact that I recommend extreme dieting for the short term. And what is "short term"? Now that really depends on the individual. The reason for this short term hard dieting (combined with a lot of cardio) is not just the physical changes, but I think much more importantly, the mental aspects of it, i.e.: the motivational aspect.

AND WHY NOT? MAYBE YOU FORGOT THAT A LOWER INSULIN ENVIRONMENT WILL YIELD MUCH LESS HUNGER AND HIGHER OVERALL FAT-LOSS....MAYBE YOU FORGOT THAT THE LOWER THE INSULIN THE MORE CHANCE FOR HER STORED FAT TO BE CONVERTED TO KETONES TAKING HER ON THE ROAD TO A FULL BLOWN FAT-LOSS PERIOD....

An obese person is fat from eating more often not from hunger, but habit. Ketogenic diets are not the only way to lose weight.

 

[Mr.X]

Mr. X, why all the caps?
EASIERS TO SEE


Yes, T4-T3 conversion would be lowered, but not completely impaired. She will still lose weight because of her low calorie diet combined with lots of cardio.
IF YOU GO ON AN EXTREME DIET AS YOU POINT OUT...HER T3 AND LEPIT LEVELS WOULD DRASTICALLY DROP AFTER 4 DAYS, AFTERWHICH SHE WILL NOT LOSE BODYFAT BUT SHE WILL LOSE WHATEVER IS LEFT OF HER MUSCLE MASS...
WEIGHT, IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE, IT'S BODY FAT LOSS

I would completely agree with you on this. However, you forget that my plan for extreme dieting is only for the SHORT term. If you properly read my post, I said that after the short term, she should go on a diet a few hundred calories below maintainence.
YES, BUT EXTREME DIETING FOR A SHORT TERM WOULD YIELD NO MORE RESULTS THEN GOING ON A LOW CARB DIET AND DROPPING ALL THE SAME WATER, WHILE ACTUALLY LOSING BODYFAT AND KEEPING HUNGER DOWN...
REMEMBER, IT'S NOT A SHORT-TERM...IT'S LONG TERM FOR LIFE...THERE IS NO SHORT TERM FIX...I'M SURE YOU WOULD AGREE W/ ME ON THAT


Again, you completely ignore the fact that I recommend extreme dieting for the short term. And what is "short term"? Now that really depends on the individual. The reason for this short term hard dieting (combined with a lot of cardio) is not just the physical changes, but I think much more importantly, the mental aspects of it, i.e.: the motivational aspect.
"SHORT TERM" CAN BE 2 WEEKS, IT CAN BE 1000 WEEKS....IT'S A BLANKET STATEMENT...FOR MOST, YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER, IT WILL BE A FEW WEEKS, WHICH WILL CAUSE NOTHING BUT LOW LEPTIN AND LOW T3 LEVELS, IN TURN CREATING A STARVATION ENVIRONMENT

-"LOTS OF CARDIO" FOR A PERSON THAT IS 300LBS. IS IMPOSSIBLE, IT CAN BE FATAL...SHE NEEDS TO START SLOW, WALKING FIRST FOR A LITTLE BIT THEN INCREASING THE TIME OF THE WALK, THEN INCREASING THE INCLINE ETC....
TAKE IT VERY SLOW



An obese person is fat from eating more often not from hunger, but habit. Ketogenic diets are not the only way to lose weight.
YES, THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT...
SHE WILL NOT ALWAYS BE IN KETOSIS, IN FACT W/ 150G CARBS SHE PROBABLY WILL NEVER HIT KETOSIS...THE GOAL HERE IS A LOW INSULIN ENVIRONMENT TO LOWER THE AMOUNT OF HUNGER....
-HABBITS CAN BE CHANGED AND GIVING PEOPLE DRUGS IS NO WAY TO CHANGE THEM


Mr.X

 

[MkZk]

Mr X.

About the Adipex issue. I think you need to broaden your views here a little. The lady lost 100lbs in less than six months. Why did she gain it back? A few important reasons: she was not exercising....and she probably did follow a disciplined sensible diet.

Adipex DID help her. And it would help much more with exercise and diet.

Umm...when I say "short term" I mean around 1 to 3 months. No, I'm not a trainer, but I've seen 3 obese people lose so much weight this way, and keeping it off with a normal diet and exercise.

What do I mean by lots of cardio? I mean 2 to 3 sessions a day. At an intensity that she can handle.

Yes, there is the leptin and T3-T4 factors. However, there is also the undenyable law of thermodynamics and energy balance.

I'm curious here, so please answer this question for me:
Let's take this 300lb five foot five obese lady. Now, for 4 weeks, she eats 30g fat, 80g protein, 150g carbs, giving a total of 1190 give and take 10%. Now during this time, she does 2 to 3 daily sessions of cardio. At an intensity that she can handle, but still is an effort to maintain. She uses Adipex during this 4 weeks. Please tell me, Mr. X, do u think after 4 weeks she would not lose body fat but rather whatever if left of her muscle mass? What do you think her weight would be after those 4 weeks? So would u think after these 4 weeks the obese lady would have lost just muscle and not fat? Because her body went into "starvation" mode? At 1200 calories?

 

[Mr.X]

About the Adipex issue. I think you need to broaden your views here a little. The lady lost 100lbs in less than six months. Why did she gain it back? A few important reasons: she was not exercising....and she probably did follow a disciplined sensible diet.
I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SHE WAS STARVING HERSELF MOST LIKELY; THUS, SHE GAINED THE WEIGHT BACK...THAT'S A FAIR STATMENT

Adipex DID help her. And it would help much more with exercise and diet.
YES, IT DID IN A WAY, BUT IN ANOTHER WAY SHE GAINED IT BACK, SO OBVIOUSLY IT DID NOT HELP HER IN THE LONG RUN; AND, LONG RUN IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR

Umm...when I say "short term" I mean around 1 to 3 months. No, I'm not a trainer, but I've seen 3 obese people lose so much weight this way, and keeping it off with a normal diet and exercise.
I'VE TRAINED A LOT OF OBESE PEOPLE, AND ONE THING I HAVE COME TO LEARN IS THAT THEY REACH A LEVEL OF STARVATION VERY QUICKLY

What do I mean by lots of cardio? I mean 2 to 3 sessions a day. At an intensity that she can handle.
DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT A LADY THAT IS 5'5 300LBS CAN DO CARDIO 3 TIMES A DAY...IF YOU DO, THEN THERE IS NOT ARGUMENT, THE ARGUMENT IS FUTILE....THINK OF WHAT YOU SAID: IF SHE DOES 3 SESSIONS IT CAN BECOME COUNTER PRODUCTIVE, ONE...CAN BE MENTALLY CHALLENGING, AND, AS YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER, IT'S MENTAL; SO, THIS IS AN HYPOCRITICAL STATEMENT....THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND, WHY WOULD YOU MAKE A WOMAN THAT NEVER EXERCISED BEFORE JUMP INTO 3X A DAY CARDIO AND WORKOUTS, ON LOW-FAT/LOW-CAL; THAT'S CRAZY AND NOT FEASIBLE

Yes, there is the leptin and T3-T4 factors. However, there is also the undenyable law of thermodynamics and energy balance.
"THE LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS"...EINSTEIN, THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND, YOU ARE ANSWERING YOUR OWN QUESTIONS: IF SHE BURNS 100CAL. FROM FAT STORES OR 100CAL. FROM MUSCLE PROTEIN, IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE; SO THE LAW IS VALID BUT THE SOURCE OF ENERGY IS NOT

I'm curious here, so please answer this question for me:
Let's take this 300lb five foot five obese lady. Now, for 4 weeks, she eats 30g fat, 80g protein, 150g carbs, giving a total of 1190 give and take 10%.
SO SHE HITS STARVATION FAIRLY QUICK, MAYBE THE FIRST WEEK OR SO....LET'S GO ON

Now during this time, she does 2 to 3 daily sessions of cardio.
WHICH CAN LOWER HER MENTAL "WANT" TO LOSE THE WEIGHT BECAUSE IT'S HARDER...AS YOU YOURSELF POINTED OUT

At an intensity that she can handle, but still is an effort to maintain.
WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW, NEITHER DOES THE PERSON POSTING THIS....YOU MIGHT TELL HER THAT AND SHE MIGHT END UP DOING IT AND GETTING A HEART ATTACK

She uses Adipex during this 4 weeks. Please tell me, Mr. X, do u think after 4 weeks she would not lose body fat but rather whatever if left of her muscle mass?
SHE WOULD BE IN STARVATION...HER T4-T3 CONVERSION WOULD BE VERY LOW, HER BODY WOULD HOLD ON TO ANY FOOD IT CAN AND STORE IT AS FAT BECAUSE OF THE LOW FAT DIET....
JUST BECAUSE YOUR HUNGER IS BLUNTED, IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU'LL LOSE BODY-FAT
-SHE HAS A LOT OF MUSCLE, HOW DO YOU THINK SHE CARRIES AROUND ALL THAT WEIGHT...SO THAT WILL BE FIRST TO GO WHEN SHE'S DOING 3X A DAY CARDIO W/ A LOW FAT/LOW CAL DIET FOR 4 WEEKS


What do you think her weight would be after those 4 weeks?
MY MAGIC BALL IS BROKEN...SO I HAVE NO IDEA...
MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT SHE MIGHT LOSE MAYBE 5LBS...BUT MOST OF IT SHE WILL GAIN BACK AFTER GETTING OFF THE PILL

So would u think after these 4 weeks the obese lady would have lost just muscle and not fat?
WELL, I DON'T "THINK", I KNOW...SOME FAT WILL BE LOST, BUT IF YOU SUDDENLY DROP HER FROM HER USUAL DIET WHICH I ASSUME IS HYPERCALORIC DOWN TO A STARVATION DIET...SHE WILL SURELY GO INTO STARVATION IN A FEW DAYS...FIRST MAYBE LOSING A TAD-BIT OF BODYFAT, BUT THE REST IS NOT GOING TO BE BODYFAT....ALSO, THE BODY'S FAILSAFE MECHANISM CAN WORK BY DROPPING SOME FAT AND STORING THE FOOD SHE INTAKES...


Because her body went into "starvation" mode? At 1200 calories?
YES YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION....1200 CAL IS AMAZINGLY STUPID FOR HER TO DO....

Mr.X

 

[MkZk]

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT A LADY THAT IS 5'5 300LBS CAN DO CARDIO 3 TIMES A DAY...IF YOU DO, THEN THERE IS NOT ARGUMENT, THE ARGUMENT IS FUTILE....THINK OF WHAT YOU SAID: IF SHE DOES 3 SESSIONS IT CAN BECOME COUNTER PRODUCTIVE, ONE...CAN BE MENTALLY CHALLENGING, AND, AS YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER, IT'S MENTAL; SO, THIS IS AN HYPOCRITICAL STATEMENT....THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND, WHY WOULD YOU MAKE A WOMAN THAT NEVER EXERCISED BEFORE JUMP INTO 3X A DAY CARDIO AND WORKOUTS, ON LOW-FAT/LOW-CAL; THAT'S CRAZY AND NOT FEASIBLE

I think I've stressed it so many times that the short term hard diet/lots of cardio is only a temporary situation to lose the fastest amount of fat possible. With this in her mind, I don't think it's impossible at all.

WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW, NEITHER DOES THE PERSON POSTING THIS....YOU MIGHT TELL HER THAT AND SHE MIGHT END UP DOING IT AND GETTING A HEART ATTACK

Exactly why I advised her to see a doctor first, in an earlier post.


UOTE]MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT SHE MIGHT LOSE MAYBE 5LBS[/QUOTE]

This is where u lose all your credibility. If honestly think that a 300 pound obese person would lose only 5 pounds on a 1200kcal diet combined with cardio for a period of 4 weeks, then you are a bigger fool than I had originally thought.

1200 CAL IS AMAZINGLY STUPID FOR HER TO DO

200kcal would be amazingly stupid. But 1200kcal for 4 weeks? Gimme a break man

So according to your theory, if an obese person were trapped on a deserted island with nothing to eat for a few weeks but just a couple of coconuts, this person would just lose 5 pounds....and 5 pounds of muscle, mind you, not fat.

I really wish other knowledgeable people, for example like MS, would read this thread. I would really like to know their opinions on this matter.

 

[Mr.X]

I think I've stressed it so many times that the short term hard diet/lots of cardio is only a temporary situation to lose the fastest amount of fat possible. With this in her mind, I don't think it's impossible at all.
SHORT TERM HARD DIET....IN YOUR WORDS A LOW-CALORIE/LOW-FAT DIET
-YOU ARE SAYING LUDICROUS THINGS BECAUSE YOU STATE THAT SHORT TERM IN YOUR VIEW IS "1 TO 3MONTH" ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE RIGHT...I HOPE NOT...


This is where u lose all your credibility. If honestly think that a 300 pound obese person would lose only 5 pounds on a 1200kcal diet combined with cardio for a period of 4 weeks, then you are a bigger fool than I had originally thought.
LISTEN TO ME, REALLY CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SITUATION:
SHE IS GOING TO BE IN STARVATION, SHE WILL MAYBE LOSE 5LBS. OF FAT...I DONT' CARE IF SHE LOSES 10000LBS. OVERALL, IT ONLY MATTER HOW MUCH FAT SHE LOST...
-YOUR IDIOTIC STATEMENT ABOUT HER GOING INTO STARVATION HAS NO SCIENCE BEHIND IT...PLEASE, YOU SEEM LIKE YOU WANT TO KNOW (OR THINK YOU KNOW) EVERYTHING....SHOW ME SOME SCIENCE THAT WILL STATE THAT PUTTING A PERSON THAT NEVER EXERCISED BEFORE INTO A 2400 CALORIE DEFICIT WILL YIELD TO FAT-LOSS OVER 3 MONTHS...COME ON, THINK W/ YOUR HEAD FOR A SECOND, THAT IS ENOUGH CALORIES FOR HER TO STARVE AND HAVE HER BODY TRY TO STORE EVERY OUNCE OF FOOD SHE EATS AS FAT


200kcal would be amazingly stupid. But 1200kcal for 4 weeks? Gimme a break man
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY

So according to your theory, if an obese person were trapped on a deserted island with nothing to eat for a few weeks but just a couple of coconuts, this person would just lose 5 pounds....and 5 pounds of muscle, mind you, not fat.
DO YOU HAVE ADD OR A READING PROBLEM? THIS IS WHAT I WROTE:
***********
MY MAGIC BALL IS BROKEN...SO I HAVE NO IDEA...
MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT SHE MIGHT LOSE MAYBE 5LBS...BUT MOST OF IT SHE WILL GAIN BACK AFTER GETTING OFF THE PILL
************
HELLO, YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT I'M SAYING....5LBS. OF FAT, BECAUSE FAT LOSS IS THE ISSUE HERE, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WEIGHT LOSS...I'M TALKING ABOUT FAT LOSS. IF YOU THINK THAT AN OBESE PERSON WILL BE ABLE TO SURVIVE ON 1200CAL. FOR 1-3MONTH THEN YOU ARE THE FOOL


I really wish other knowledgeable people, for example like MS, would read this thread. I would really like to know their opinions on this matter.
IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE, WHY THEN DO YOU NEED OUTSIDE OPINIONS? YOU SEEM TO BE MR. KNOW-IT-ALL.....

I LOVE WHEN PEOPLE MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS, IT'S AMAZING....PLEASE, DO NOT CALL ME A FOOL BECAUSE COMING FROM YOU THAT WOULD SURELY BE AN IDIOTIC COMMENT

"This is where u lose all your credibility. If honestly think that a 300 pound obese person would lose only 5 pounds on a 1200kcal diet combined with cardio for a period of 4 weeks, then you are a bigger fool than I had originally thought. "

IS THIS THE SMARTEST THING YOU COULD SAY: SAYING THIS W/OUT EVEN READING MY POST...HMMM, I THINK YOU MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF MY MAN

Mr.X

 

[MkZk]

Mr X.

I asked you, "What do you think her weight would be after those 4 weeks? "
And your response:

MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT SHE MIGHT LOSE MAYBE 5LBS...BUT MOST OF IT SHE WILL GAIN BACK AFTER GETTING OFF THE PILL

Who seems to have a problem reading here?

YOU ARE SAYING LUDICROUS THINGS BECAUSE YOU STATE THAT SHORT TERM IN YOUR VIEW IS "1 TO 3MONTH" ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE RIGHT...I HOPE NOT

If you cannot go on a strict diet for at least 1 month, then it's a problem of willpower.

IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE, WHY THEN DO YOU NEED OUTSIDE OPINIONS? YOU SEEM TO BE MR. KNOW-IT-ALL

I've never stated that I know it all. In fact, in an earlier post, I mentioned that your plan would work, but I did not think it was the best way. However, you seem to think that you know it all. from the superior tone with which you respond to your use of caps and bold letter, to the outright rejection of my ideas without, it seems really reading.

I LOVE WHEN PEOPLE MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS, IT'S AMAZING....PLEASE, DO NOT CALL ME A FOOL BECAUSE COMING FROM YOU THAT WOULD SURELY BE AN IDIOTIC COMMENT

You started the personal attacks first. Firstly with the thinly disguised sarcasm and calling me Einstein. I'm smart, I know, but please...

So this time, again, please no confusion, ok? Please read carefully and ask a friend to explain to you if you do not understand:
Let's take this 300lb five foot five obese lady. Now, for 4 weeks, she eats 30g fat, 80g protein, 150g carbs, giving a total of 1190 give and take 10%. Now during this time, she does 2 to 3 daily sessions of cardio. At an intensity that she can handle, but still is an effort to maintain. She uses Adipex during this 4 weeks. So you are saying that she will lose 5 pounds of fat only and the rest of what she would lose would be muscle? Are you truly dumb enough to believe this? Or would you like others to be dumb enough so that they can buy your book or whatever?

 

[Mr.X]

I asked you, "What do you think her weight would be after those 4 weeks? "
And your response:
MY RESPONSES ARE FOR PEOPLE W/ COMMON SENSE, SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HER BEING OBESE = OVERWEIGHT (FAT) THAT MEANS OUR GOAL IS TO HAVE HER LOSE FAT, NO WEIGHT

Who seems to have a problem reading here?
YES YOU DO SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM READING, I THINK YOU NEED TO RESEARCH YOUR SCIENCE MORE BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH OR START TYPING

If you cannot go on a strict diet for at least 1 month, then it's a problem of willpower.
YOU CAN GO ON A "STRICT" DIET W/O HAVING TO STARVE TO DEATH AND OVERTRAIN

I've never stated that I know it all. In fact, in an earlier post, I mentioned that your plan would work, but I did not think it was the best way.
YOU THINK MY PLAN WORKS, BUT I, ON THE OTHER HAND, DO NOT THINK YOUR PLAN WORKS AT ALL...I THINK IT'S A LUDICROUS IDEA

However, you seem to think that you know it all. from the superior tone with which you respond to your use of caps and bold letter,
LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, IT'S EASIER TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHEN IT'S IN DIFFERENT FONT...DON'T ASSUME THAT MY CAPS AND FONT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO W/ MY ATTITUDE

to the outright rejection of my ideas without, it seems really reading.
YES, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO PROOF BEHIND THEM, NOR DO THEY HAVE A PERSON W/ A SLIGHT CLUE THAT IS TALKING ABOUT THEM....THEY DO NOT MAKE SENSE, I POSTED MY OPINION ON IT, WHICH IS TRUE AND FACTUAL,,,WHEN YOU TAKE SOMEONE AND PUT THEM ON A 2400CAL. DEFICIT FOR 3MONTH YOU ARE NOT BEING IDIOTIC, YOU ARE GETTING NOWHERE

You started the personal attacks first. Firstly with the thinly disguised sarcasm and calling me Einstein. I'm smart, I know, but please...
IT'S SARCASM, MUCH DIFFERENT FROM CALLING SOMEONE A FOOL, WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF TO BE...

So this time, again, please no confusion, ok? Please read carefully and ask a friend to explain to you if you do not understand:
WOW,...A PERSONAL ATTACK AGAIN, YOU GIVE NO SCIENCE TO BACK UP YOUR THEORIES BUT YOU RUN YOUR MOUTH OFF, TYPICAL OF A NOBODY

Let's take this 300lb five foot five obese lady. Now, for 4 weeks, she eats 30g fat, 80g protein, 150g carbs, giving a total of 1190 give and take 10%.
CORRECTION, YOU POSTED 1-3MO...SO LET'S SAY 12 WEEKS, NOW YOU SEE HOW YOUR STORY CHANGES AND DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE

Now during this time, she does 2 to 3 daily sessions of cardio. At an intensity that she can handle, but still is an effort to maintain. She uses Adipex during this 4 weeks. So you are saying that she will lose 5 pounds of fat only and the rest of what she would lose would be muscle?
DID YOU NOT READ MY POST?....FOR I PLAINLY SAID THAT MY MAGIC BALL WAS BROKEN AND I DO NOT KNOW...I SAID MY GUESS IS 5LBS. OF PURE FAT REST OF IT WOULD BE MUSCLE AND OR OTHER TISSUES....LOOK DO NOT THINK YOU ARE SMART BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAY MAKES NO SENSE; YOU ARE SAYING THAT W/ A 2400CAL. DEFICIT SOMEONE CAN LOSE BODYFAT W/O GAINING IT BACK OR GOING INTO STARVATION
-CLEARLY YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO DIETING


Are you truly dumb enough to believe this? Or would you like others to be dumb enough so that they can buy your book or whatever?
WOW, ANOTHER PERSONAL ATTACK...MAYBE I SHOULD START EDITING YOUR POSTS...
DON'T BE A MORON, READ BEFORE YOU TALK,...YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY AND YOUR IDEAS ARE IDIOTIC AND ARE BASED ON MYTHS THAT YOU HEAR OUT THERE....
YOU ARE A PARROT THAT JUST REPEATS BACK WHAT HE HEARD SOMEWHERE W/O ANY PROOF...
-DO ME A FAVOR, DISSAPEAR FROM THIS BOARD...


Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

HERE IS SOME SCIENCE FOR YOU:

Bull Mem Acad R Med Belg 2001;156(10-12):471-9; discussion

[Obesity: therapeutic aspects]

[Article in French]

Scheen A.

Service de Diabetologie, Nutrition et Maladies metaboliques, Departement de Medecine, C.H.U. Sart Tilman-Liege.

Obesity is now recognized as a chronic disease. Its treatment implies a prolonged negative energy balance, by reducing caloric intake and/or increasing energy expenditure. In practice, three therapeutic approaches can be considered: 1) life-style modifications, combining well-balanced hypocaloric diet and regular physical exercise, the key-issue in obesity management;
KEY WORD: LIFESTYLE...NOT A QUICK FIX

Anti-obesity treatments must be evaluated in the long run, in terms of efficacy/safety ratio, upon criteria of weight loss, reduction in associated risk factors, improvement of quality of life and, if possible, reduction of morbidity and mortality.
EXACTLY...IT HAS TO BE SET-UP FOR THE LONG RUN, AND W/ THAT IN MIND, PUTTING A PERSON ON A HYPOCALORIC DIET W/ A 2400CAL. DEFICIT IS NOT THE WAY TO HELP THE EFFICACY/SAFETY RATIO

PMID: 12371268 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2002 Mar;87(3):1274-81

Hypocaloric diet reduces exercise-induced alpha 2-adrenergic antilipolytic effect and alpha 2-adrenergic receptor mRNA levels in adipose tissue of obese women.

Stich V, Marion-Latard F, Hejnova J, Viguerie N, Lefort C, Suljkovicova H, Langin D, Lafontan M, Berlan M.

ONE more...

Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

Eur J Clin Nutr 2001 Mar;55(3):186-91

Short-term effects of a hypocaloric diet on nitrogen excretion in morbid obese women.

Vila R, Granada ML, Gutierrez RM, Fernandez-Lopez JA, Remesar X, Formiguera X, Foz M, Alemany M.


CONCLUSIONS: The early change in energy availability that the creatinine excretion figures reflect may result from the energy conservation mechanisms induced in response to energy restriction. The early onset of this effect (3 days, and the extent of decrease (approximately 19%) also suggest that the impact of VLCD (very low-calorie diets) on the muscle energy budget of the obese is more marked than usually assumed.

Mr.X

 

[oneandthesame]

Great thread here, well, heres what we came up with so far. We are going to get her eating healthy fats, protein, and fibrous carbs with no sugar or anything that would spike her insulin too much. Also, initially we will not restrict calories very much if any at all, and instead concentrate on letting her get adapted to doing some exercise, ie, increase her activity First and then when she starts making progress, then perhaps cutting cals but not below 2000. I only weigh 190 now and I'm eating 2200 to 2300 cals and still losing fat. So I hope to get her metabolism up with exercise first, and at the same time get her eating much Differently but not really less, just better choices of food. Also what about having her eat her carbs in the day and then only eat fat at night, ie eggwhites and oatmeal in the morning chicken breast with with a salad at night. Also she said she wants to get her blood pressure down with exercise before she considers adipex.

 

[Mr.X]

Great thread here, well, heres what we came up with so far. We are going to get her eating healthy fats, protein, and fibrous carbs with no sugar or anything that would spike her insulin too much. Also, initially we will not restrict calories very much if any at all, and instead concentrate on letting her get adapted to doing some exercise, ie, increase her activity First and then when she starts making progress, then perhaps cutting cals but not below 2000. I only weigh 190 now and I'm eating 2200 to 2300 cals and still losing fat. So I hope to get her metabolism up with exercise first, and at the same time get her eating much Differently but not really less, just better choices of food. Also what about having her eat her carbs in the day and then only eat fat at night, ie eggwhites and oatmeal in the morning chicken breast with with a salad at night. Also she said she wants to get her blood pressure down with exercise before she considers adipex.

Good, you guys are going to do great...make sure to tell her that it is a life time goal. I hope everything goes well for you...please keep us updated.

Mr.X