Obamacare rates shocker.

[75th]

Unexpected Health Insurance Rate Shock-California Obamacare Insurance Exchange Announces Premium Rates - Forbes

Keep in mind that the entire idea of the exchanges is to require health insurance companies to compete openly with one another by offering identical coverage programs in the three created classes—each offering insurance coverage that actually delivers meaningful protection to customers—and then openly disclosing the price each insurance company will charge for that policy. Thus, shoppers can clearly see which company has the best price on an apples-to-apples basis.

Upon reviewing the data, I was indeed shocked by the proposed premium rates—but not in the way you might expect. The jolt that I was experiencing was not the result of the predicted out-of-control premium costs but the shock of rates far lower than what I expected—even at the lowest end of the age scale.

The ACA kinda sucks in my opinion, but good on this conservative idea for using competition to bring rates lower than many expected.

 

[bigpokey]

There's gonna be a lot of people pissed off if obamacare is affordable.

 

[WoodyO]

What is Obamacare?

 

[75th]

There's gonna be a lot of people pissed off if obamacare is affordable.

lol

Doesnt make much sense, does it?

 

[75th]

What is Obamacare?

I thought it was another word for socialism.

Companies competing against each other. Consumers being provided more info on their choices and being able to make an informed decision. Sounds more like capitalism to me.

 

[ceo]

Hey 75th, can you get me this spongebob, please?

 

[jdynasty]

That means that the individual earning $17,235 (150 percent of the poverty line) only ends up paying a fraction of the $230 premium.The federal government picks up the rest of the tab.

So, I am all for people having insurance, but if the Federal government is picking up the rest of the tab, ultimately that means they will have to raise taxes, cut back on other programs, or eventually raise the premiums. Just does not seem sustainable.

 

[jnevin]

Just CA? Not the best example buddy.

 

[75th]

Just CA? Not the best example buddy.

California, Oregon and Washington so far...aka the states that are cooperating with the program and getting a jump on things. Plus, I figure the most populous (and probably most diverse) state would be a good barometer.

 

[75th]

That means that the individual earning $17,235 (150 percent of the poverty line) only ends up paying a fraction of the $230 premium.The federal government picks up the rest of the tab.

So, I am all for people having insurance, but if the Federal government is picking up the rest of the tab, ultimately that means they will have to raise taxes, cut back on other programs, or eventually raise the premiums. Just does not seem sustainable.

How much is spent every year covering people without insurance via their use of ERs?

Thats probably a tad less sustainable.

 

[75th]

Hey 75th, can you get me this spongebob, please?

Wish I could, but my wife took a new gig 3 weeks ago. Sorry boss.

 

[jdynasty]

How much is spent every year covering people without insurance via their use of ERs?

Thats probably a tad less sustainable.

Maybe they should pay their bill. There is no guarantee they will pay their bills if they have insurance.

And I am sure the hospitals can right off some of those ER loses or they just pass the cost on to those that do pay.

Regardless, we definitely need to get this fixed!

 

[gjohnson5]

How much is spent every year covering people without insurance via their use of ERs?

Thats probably a tad less sustainable.

Agreed , the emergency room is the most expensive place to get health care. If people could get preventative care before it ballons into am emergency , costs would definitely drop

 

[75th]

Regardless, we definitely need to get this fixed!

That we do. Not a fan of the ACA, but if the next president could work on some type of cost control legislation (or at least cost transparency) we will...still have a pretty shitty health care system. But itll be much improved compared to what it was just a year ago.

 

[gjohnson5]

Maybe they should pay their bill. There is no guarantee they will pay their bills if they have insurance.

And I am sure the hospitals can right off some of those ER loses or they just pass the cost on to those that do pay.

Regardless, we definitely need to get this fixed!

The whole reason they are going to the ER is because they CANNOT pay the bill and probably don't have insurance. The idea is to get these folks covered so that they can get regularly scheduled checkups. Much better (and cheaper) then waiting until an emergency and then needing to be ambulanced to the ER

 

[75th]

The whole reason they are going to the ER is because they CANNOT pay the bill and probably don't have insurance.

This. It is standard practice for most hospitals to attempt to get poor patients approved by Medicaid and have Medicaid pay for all or part of the expenses. If you're low-income with low assets you may qualify for charity care and not expected to pay all or a portion of your bill.

If patients are too poor for insurance but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid and suspected of having good incomes and assets hospitals will bill them at list price, they get charge-mastered. If they cannot pay, hospitals will pursue them through their bill collectors and the courts.

There is no such thing as a free market in healthcare, if one defines a free market as a place where there is some balance of power between the buyer and the seller. You cannot have a free market if no one knows the costs. You can not shop around for an emergency room or a hospital when you need one.

 

[gjohnson5]

This. It is standard practice for most hospitals to attempt to get poor patients approved by Medicaid and have Medicaid pay for all or part of the expenses. If you're low-income with low assets you may qualify for charity care and not expected to pay all or a portion of your bill.

Some hospitals have "indigent" status where one can receive care if they are deemed unable to pay. Usually the hospital will look into ones finances first. But alot of people simply don't have the money and are really "indigent". In those cases , the government is picking up the tab anyway since most ER's legally required to accept patients.

 

[jdynasty]

The whole reason they are going to the ER is because they CANNOT pay the bill and probably don't have insurance. The idea is to get these folks covered so that they can get regularly scheduled checkups. Much better (and cheaper) then waiting until an emergency and then needing to be ambulanced to the ER

Yea, that is a valid point, I thought about it, and I have never gone to the ER unless it is an emergency, but I have always had insurance.

I wonder though, how many people who have insurance get an annual physical.

 

[gjohnson5]

I wonder though, how many people who have insurance get an annual physical.

I fall into the guilty party here of not getting regular checkups despite having insurance. The main way to keep costs down is to not use the service. Most young people are similar in that they don't feel like they need to use the services, so they dont. If you feel healthy and fit , what's the point? If we could get all these people paying insurance , that would help pay for the ones who need coverage but can't afford it.

 

[Headholio]

There's gonna be a lot of people pissed off if obamacare is affordable.

Plunkey is furious right now.

 

[75th]

Inb4 nothing but anecdotes of employers moving people to part time to avoid paying insurance costs.

 

[chewyxrage]

They don't indicate in that article what the price covers do they? Single person only, family and kids, etc.?

If that is for a single person, that is quite expensive compared to what most competitive employers offer.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that everyone should have healthcare. How much will it cost the Fed/Citizens to make it happen?

 

[75th]

If that is for a single person, that is quite expensive compared to what most competitive employers offer.

It is indeed...but thats a whole other conversation. You would think that business owners would support a single payer option (as it would remove the extremely costly insurance benefits from their end).

The article states that those prices were for a 40 y/o male in average health. Compared to what an individual health plan for a non-smoker would cost even with a high-ish deductible ($3k-4,500) thats not a bad deal. That's not even getting into the fact that pre-existing conditions no longer can disqualify you or price you out of the market.

Of course, this wasnt meant to address those with access to group health insurance through their employer.

 

[redsamurai]

Plunkey is furious right now.

and pacing, don't forget pacing.

 

[redsamurai]

Inb4 nothing but anecdotes of employers moving people to part time to avoid paying insurance costs.

and inb4 non relevant comments about monkeys and stock pickers etc, etc.

 

[mrplunkey]

Thread bookmarked.

 

[bigpokey]

bout to go down in this muthafuck actual talk

 

[ceo]

The whole reason they are going to the ER is because they CANNOT pay the bill and probably don't have insurance. The idea is to get these folks covered so that they can get regularly scheduled checkups. Much better (and cheaper) then waiting until an emergency and then needing to be ambulanced to the ER

Many of the people that do not have insurance don't just wait until there's an emergency to go to the ER...the ER is their Primary Care/Urgent Care. They come to the ER with sniffles and a cough, etc. They clog up ERs with non emergent situations, and generally are the biggest complainers there.

 

[shirlene29]

Many of the people that do not have insurance don't just wait until there's an emergency to go to the ER...the ER is their Primary Care/Urgent Care. They come to the ER with sniffles and a cough, etc. They clog up ERs with non emergent situations, and generally are the biggest complainers there.

This^^^^ and they slow down the treatment of real emergencies. Some of these people are absolutely over the top. They'll call an ambulance for a cold. I've personally sat in the emergency room bleeding all over the waiting area with two rather large ankle slashes that really needed stitches but I got so frustrated after sitting there for three hrs I went home and super glued and steri stripped em. I suppose I could have done that to begin with but is was frankly a lot of blood and I wasn't sure if anything important had been cut.

Most major hospitals have responded by having PAs and NPs running prompt care (non emergent care)within the emergency room. Both are giant black holes where money disappears.

Also on the other side of the coin; transportation to healthcare is a really big problem for those those in rural areas or those that are elderly, truly poverty stricken and infirm.
Access to grants, medicare/medicaid etc is not very transparent. If you don't have insurance, because you don't have a pre-negotiated billing scale the bills for care can be absolutely astronomical. I've seen bills well over ten grand for a broken finger (that was set incorrectly to boot).


I've said it before and I'll say it again...the system we have now is terrible, but better than it was in say..the fifties (pulling that out of my ass)where you could be turned away if you couldn't pay your bill. I have no idea what the ultimate solution really is.

 

[gjohnson5]

Many of the people that do not have insurance don't just wait until there's an emergency to go to the ER...the ER is their Primary Care/Urgent Care. They come to the ER with sniffles and a cough, etc. They clog up ERs with non emergent situations, and generally are the biggest complainers there.

And often times this is a stereotype. There are people who have died because emergency room staff took their conditions in the same light you did and they ended up dying in the emergency room

 

[zwhit]

Both are giant black holes where money disappears.

racist

 

[billfred]

Emergency rooms need to have a $20 cover charge. That would at least push some of these people to a clinic. Has anyone here been to an emergency room lately? I was there for my back - 2 hours, $8k. One guy next to me came in for heartburn. Doc said, did you drink a lot this weekend - "Si" remember last time you came in here for the same problem - "Si" Ok - here is your prescription grade prilosec that you can get at Walgreens OTC. Let me bill this to the guy in the booth next door with insurance and extra cash.

This went on the whole time I was there. Not one real emergency.

 

[zwhit]

I was there a few times when my wife's blood pressure spiked when she was pregnant. it was ridiculous. basically the same scenario you described

 

[shirlene29]

yeah

my last big emergency room experience was Gregs motorcycle accident...that obviously went right to the front of the line (level 1 trauma) but it was still 6 or so hours before they decided he wasn't going to actually die AND they assumed because of his army tats he was a gang member and probably only had medicaid at best...uhm no fuckfaces , how bout we treat the seriously injured pt first then worry about whether he has coverage or not. Note I said "seriously", I think the automatic $20 copay isn't the worst idea I've ever heard but I see problems with that too...how many legitimately seriously ill pts would die because they didn't have the twenty bucks.

 

[shirlene29]

And often times this is a stereotype. There are people who have died because emergency room staff took their conditions in the same light you did and they ended up dying in the emergency room

unfortunately its not a stereotype. It difficult to NOT get jaded in emergency medicine when you see bullshit abuse after bullshit abuse. I took a couple weeks off from work when I flipped a little on someone that called 911 for a broken toe in an extremely limited service area ...thereby taking an ambulance (the only ambulance) offline for absolute bullshit.

And I can say that I made a good catch once with an older female pt that just didn't "feel right" who's coworkers called 911. I got the impression something was wildly awry because she wasn't your typical frequent flyer; turned out I was right.Her BP was all over the map to the point where I thought I was screwing up and kept changing BP cuffs. She was having an MI and didn't present in a typical fashion.
My jaded partner sort of brushed it off but not entirely. People that ABUSE emergency services make people that work in the field non-receptive.

I also got completely snowed once by some asshole drug seeker that had right upper quadrant pain (complete with rebound tenderness) down to a fucking science. I still would like to run that fucker over.

 

[billfred]

yeah

my last big emergency room experience was Gregs motorcycle accident...that obviously went right to the front of the line (level 1 trauma) but it was still 6 or so hours before they decided he wasn't going to actually die AND they assumed because of his army tats he was a gang member and probably only had medicaid at best...uhm no fuckfaces , how bout we treat the seriously injured pt first then worry about whether he has coverage or not. Note I said "seriously", I think the automatic $20 copay isn't the worst idea I've ever heard but I see problems with that too...how many legitimately seriously ill pts would die because they didn't have the twenty bucks.

None - when life is on the line, someone is going to come up with $20, even if it is just a good samaritan passing out $20 at the door.

 

[bigbassturd]

Bill you know that good samaritan shouldn't be giving out his hard earned money on his own

Going to need to put an ER cover tax on your income so that everyone can get/pay their fair share when it's redistributed.

Oh, and think about the children. The children!

 

[ceo]

unfortunately its not a stereotype. It difficult to NOT get jaded in emergency medicine when you see bullshit abuse after bullshit abuse. I took a couple weeks off from work when I flipped a little on someone that called 911 for a broken toe in an extremely limited service area ...thereby taking an ambulance (the only ambulance) offline for absolute bullshit.

And I can say that I made a good catch once with an older female pt that just didn't "feel right" who's coworkers called 911. I got the impression something was wildly awry because she wasn't your typical frequent flyer; turned out I was right.Her BP was all over the map to the point where I thought I was screwing up and kept changing BP cuffs. She was having an MI and didn't present in a typical fashion.
My jaded partner sort of brushed it off but not entirely. People that ABUSE emergency services make people that work in the field non-receptive.

I also got completely snowed once by some asshole drug seeker that had right upper quadrant pain (complete with rebound tenderness) down to a fucking science. I still would like to run that fucker over.

This is absolutely 100% correct. I spent several years working in the ER, and shirl is right. gjohnson, I wish we were wrong and we were stereotyping, but we're not. Drug seekers are another category that shirl touched on. People with nothing wrong with them who have become experts at faking symptoms. You can x-ray, scan, palpate, and not find anything but you can't take the chance of sending away a patient "in extreme pain" without at least trying to manage their pain (pain meds). Meanwhile, they've spent 3 or 4 hours (or more) in the ER and used other resources (x-rays, scans, etc.) all at a cost...to someone.

 

[dabuffguy]

California the most diverse?

Lol, everybody knows So Cal is purely rich white people.

 

[Headholio]

california the most diverse?

Lol, everybody knows salt lake city is purely rich white people.

fyp

 

[WoodyO]

What's a white person?

 

[jnevin]

fyp

I fail to see a problem

Sent from my LG-P999 using EliteFitness

 

[ceo]

What's a white person?

where the white women at?

 

[WoodyO]

White women will give you the heebie jeebies.

 

[mrplunkey]

This is absolutely 100% correct. I spent several years working in the ER, and shirl is right. gjohnson, I wish we were wrong and we were stereotyping, but we're not. Drug seekers are another category that shirl touched on. People with nothing wrong with them who have become experts at faking symptoms. You can x-ray, scan, palpate, and not find anything but you can't take the chance of sending away a patient "in extreme pain" without at least trying to manage their pain (pain meds). Meanwhile, they've spent 3 or 4 hours (or more) in the ER and used other resources (x-rays, scans, etc.) all at a cost...to someone.

This is one of the many, many train wrecks we'll see as an unintended consequence of Barrycare.

Remember you read it here first. In 2011 I said we'd have 15 million prescription pain pill addicts by 2015. We're right on track.

 

[Headholio]

Please explain the link between Obamacare and drug addiction. Got any data that links giving people healthcare to pill addiction?

Where'd you get that pill addiction prediction? Rush Limbaugh?

 

[redsamurai]

Please explain the link between Obamacare and drug addiction. Got any data that links giving people healthcare to pill addiction?

Where'd you get that pill addiction prediction? Rush Limbaugh?

He heard it from someone who heard it from someone else who heard it from yet another person who read it in an email. We know how this works by now.

 

[dabuffguy]

fyp

Lol

SLC was recently named the gayest city in America.
SanFran's hole is tighter than ours. Imagine that.

 

[mrplunkey]

Please explain the link between Obamacare and drug addiction. Got any data that links giving people healthcare to pill addiction?

Where'd you get that pill addiction prediction? Rush Limbaugh?

Just sit tight.

Are you going to be man enough to admit I'm right when 2015 hits?

 

[75th]

Delicious irony considering how you're wrong about pretty much everything.

 

[jnevin]

Just sit tight.

Are you going to be man enough to admit I'm right when 2015 hits?

If people (who are already addicts) are going into the ER to get their pills for free right now, I don't see how this overhaul is going to recruit new addicts. Most people seem to get hooked on that shit by taking grandma's pills anyway.

 

[75th]

If people (who are already addicts) are going into the ER to get their pills for free right now, I don't see how this overhaul is going to recruit new addicts. Most people seem to get hooked on that shit by taking grandma's pills anyway.

This.

I look forward to next week when plunkey blames the rise of ADHD diagnoses on Obamacare.

 

[nydj66]

If people (who are already addicts) are going into the ER to get their pills for free right now, I don't see how this overhaul is going to recruit new addicts. Most people seem to get hooked on that shit by taking grandma's pills anyway.

Drug companies and doctors are making huge money on these addictive prescriptions. If more people can afford them due to insurance, there will be more addicts. (Knot buying the 15 million figure though).

NY state is trying to stop this trend by making doctors justify their use of opiates and limiting the number of number of prescriptions written. But when you're fighting against corporate profits, it takes unified public support to win.

Why long term use of opioids is not the answer

 

[gjohnson5]

Drug companies and doctors are making huge money on these addictive prescriptions. If more people can afford them due to insurance, there will be more addicts. (Knot buying the 15 million figure though).

[/url]

I dont' think it's that simple. In the Rush Limbaugh case (Yes , I'm using the Rush Limbaugh case since people on this thread seem to think only poor people using the ER become opiod crack heads) , he was doctor shopping and having his doctors put other people's names on his prescriptions. The average joe won't have that level of stroke. Opioid dependancy is now listed as a real medical condition and many states have laws against doctor shopping thanks to Rush Limbaugh

 

[mrplunkey]

Drug companies and doctors are making huge money on these addictive prescriptions. If more people can afford them due to insurance, there will be more addicts. (Knot buying the 15 million figure though).

NY state is trying to stop this trend by making doctors justify their use of opiates and limiting the number of number of prescriptions written. But when you're fighting against corporate profits, it takes unified public support to win.

Why long term use of opioids is not the answer

What???

Are you trying to tell me that if we create an all new revenue stream for pharma companies, hospitals and physicians all of whom are already facing reimbursement cuts that utilization will increase?

 

[shirlene29]

Drug companies and doctors are making huge money on these addictive prescriptions. If more people can afford them due to insurance, there will be more addicts. (Knot buying the 15 million figure though).

NY state is trying to stop this trend by making doctors justify their use of opiates and limiting the number of number of prescriptions written. But when you're fighting against corporate profits, it takes unified public support to win.

Why long term use of opioids is not the answer

being done here too...but not very efficiently
Dr's have to answer to a review of their prescription writing.

My PCP won't write pain killer scripts or xanax scripts to the avg pt. We have gotten pain killer scripts through her and she listens to our feedback about them (I'm fine with straight codiene, vics make me puke) but there has to be a valid reason for them (motorcycle accident, car accident etc)

 

[Headholio]

Drug companies and doctors are making huge money on these addictive prescriptions. If more people can afford them due to insurance, there will be more addicts. (Knot buying the 15 million figure though).

NY state is trying to stop this trend by making doctors justify their use of opiates and limiting the number of number of prescriptions written. But when you're fighting against corporate profits, it takes unified public support to win.

Why long term use of opioids is not the answer

I don't think there is any evidence that abuse rates are higher in countries with socialized medicine, although a higher percentage of the population has access to medical care in those countries. In fact, there are a lot reasons why socialized medicine (which does not mean Obamacare), would reduce some of the incentive for pill pushing.

The black market for prescription drugs is a big problem however, with third world countries producing them and Internet pharmacies making them easy to obtain.

I do believe however, that Obamacare will cause an increase in midwest tornadoes. You mark my words!!

 

[mrplunkey]

Delicious irony considering how you're wrong about pretty much everything.

Well you certainly aren't man enough to admit you're wrong. There's no point in even asking you.

 

[75th]

orly?

 

[billfred]

I don't think there is any evidence that abuse rates are higher in countries with socialized medicine, although a higher percentage of the population has access to medical care in those countries. In fact, there are a lot reasons why socialized medicine (which does not mean Obamacare), would reduce some of the incentive for pill pushing.

The black market for prescription drugs is a big problem however, with third world countries producing them and Internet pharmacies making them easy to obtain.

I do believe however, that Obamacare will cause an increase in midwest tornadoes. You mark my words!!

Nope.. that is global warming.

 

[nydj66]

What???

Are you trying to tell me that if we create an all new revenue stream for pharma companies, hospitals and physicians all of whom are already facing reimbursement cuts that utilization will increase?

Freakanomics!

 

[redsamurai]

This.

I look forward to next week when plunkey blames the rise of ADHD diagnoses on Obamacare.

has he hit changes in the Jetstream and ozone depletion yet?

 

[dabuffguy]

9/11 was an inside job.

 

[zwhit]

George Bush controls the thermostat

 

[ceo]

If access to opiates becomes easier and more available, will addiction rates increase?


I'm not saying access will become easier, or that addiction rates will increase. I don't know and won't assume one way or the other (I'm too lazy to care right now). It's just a question thrown out there to gather opinions.

 

[bigpokey]

If access to opiates becomes easier and more available, will addiction rates increase?


I'm not saying access will become easier, or that addiction rates will increase. I don't know and won't assume one way or the other (I'm too lazy to care right now). It's just a question thrown out there to gather opinions.

Nope, probably not. Future addicts would have increased access to opioid/drug addiction drugs like suboxen/methadone also. People on addiction drugs would increase drastically, but they're not drug addicts they're just taking their medicine for addiction.

 

[Headholio]

If access to opiates becomes easier and more available, will addiction rates increase?


I'm not saying access will become easier, or that addiction rates will increase. I don't know and won't assume one way or the other (I'm too lazy to care right now). It's just a question thrown out there to gather opinions.

I find the question ironic on a forum where people are talking all day long about prescription drugs they (use) abuse without doctor prescriptions or oversight.

If you want some prescription painkillers, tranquilizers or sleeping pills, check Craigslist.

The law, as we all know, isn't what causes, or prevents, drug use.

And the logical end to this train of thought is that people shouldn't be allowed to have insurance, because if they do they will go to the doctor, and then they will get prescriptions and then they will become addicted, so its better for them if we make sure they don't have access to healthcare.

Not a very compelling argument.

 

[jnevin]

I find the question ironic on a forum where people are talking all day long about prescription drugs they (use) abuse without doctor prescriptions or oversight.

If you want some prescription painkillers, tranquilizers or sleeping pills, check Craigslist.

The law, as we all know, isn't what causes, or prevents, drug use.

And the logical end to this train of thought is that people shouldn't be allowed to have insurance, because if they do they will go to the doctor, and then they will get prescriptions and then they will become addicted, so its better for them if we make sure they don't have access to healthcare.

Not a very compelling argument.

I'm pretty sure everyone inn this country has access to healthcare.

Sent from my LG-P999 using EliteFitness

 

[ceo]

I find the question ironic on a forum where people are talking all day long about prescription drugs they (use) abuse without doctor prescriptions or oversight.

If you want some prescription painkillers, tranquilizers or sleeping pills, check Craigslist.

The law, as we all know, isn't what causes, or prevents, drug use.

And the logical end to this train of thought is that people shouldn't be allowed to have insurance, because if they do they will go to the doctor, and then they will get prescriptions and then they will become addicted, so its better for them if we make sure they don't have access to healthcare.

Not a very compelling argument.

Wasn't an argument. Thought I made that clear, and that's the whole reason I wrote what I did after I asked the question. I really don't give a fuck one way or the other. Addicts will be addicts and they will find a way to get their drugs. My question was one that I was wondering...not that I already have an answer to. That if access were somehow easier, because drug seekers who go to the ER for drugs could now obtain them through a PCP, and that somehow made obtaining them easier for them, would we start to see more people doing this who were not given those drugs at the ER (they don't always give the drugs)?

It was just a random thought. I don't have an answer and it probably isn't even a well thought out or phrased question. But I could possible see an argument being made by someone who actually did give a fuck (not me).

 

[wombtool]

CEO straight up just doesnt give a fuck!!!!!!!!11

 

[billfred]

If access to opiates becomes easier and more available, will addiction rates increase?


I'm not saying access will become easier, or that addiction rates will increase. I don't know and won't assume one way or the other (I'm too lazy to care right now). It's just a question thrown out there to gather opinions.

if more people use it, addiction rates will increase. that is just statistics.

would open access increase the people using it? My guess is yes.

 

[Headholio]

Wasn't an argument. Thought I made that clear, and that's the whole reason I wrote what I did after I asked the question. I really don't give a fuck one way or the other. Addicts will be addicts and they will find a way to get their drugs. My question was one that I was wondering...not that I already have an answer to. That if access were somehow easier, because drug seekers who go to the ER for drugs could now obtain them through a PCP, and that somehow made obtaining them easier for them, would we start to see more people doing this who were not given those drugs at the ER (they don't always give the drugs)?

It was just a random thought. I don't have an answer and it probably isn't even a well thought out or phrased question. But I could possible see an argument being made by someone who actually did give a fuck (not me).

You said you were gathering opinions, so I gave you mine

 

[Headholio]

I'm pretty sure everyone inn this country has access to healthcare.

Sent from my LG-P999 using EliteFitness

A common misconception.

The mother of a friend of mine died of stomach cancer with no insurance. She would go into the emergency room in severe pain and all they would do is juice her up with morphine and pain pills and send her home.

Doc's wanted something like 15k cash as a down payment before they would do the surgery she needed. This poor guy would come to work crying and begging people for donations to help his mother.

His family would sit in the living room and listen to her moan in pain in the bedroom and could do nothing to help her.

It was a horrifying situation, and sure as shit changed my views on the healthcare situation in this greatest country on earth.

 

[Mr. dB]

Well you certainly aren't man enough to admit you're wrong. There's no point in even asking you.

I guess you don't remember what a gung-ho GOP fanboy he was ten years ago.

 

[75th]

I guess you don't remember what a gung-ho GOP fanboy he was ten years ago.

Google "reality."

Plunkey isnt familiar with the concept. This is well established.

 

[jnevin]

A common misconception.

The mother of a friend of mine died of stomach cancer with no insurance. She would go into the emergency room in severe pain and all they would do is juice her up with morphine and pain pills and send her home.

Doc's wanted something like 15k cash as a down payment before they would do the surgery she needed. This poor guy would come to work crying and begging people for donations to help his mother.

His family would sit in the living room and listen to her moan in pain in the bedroom and could do nothing to help her.

It was a horrifying situation, and sure as shit changed my views on the healthcare situation in this greatest country on earth.

That does suck, but she was treated. You think surgery would have cured stomach cancer? Doubtful.

Sent from my LG-P999 using EliteFitness

 

[bigbassturd]

Solution to that problem: buy fucking insurance just like every other responsible asshole who wants to be treated when they get sick.

 

[Headholio]

That does suck, but she was treated. You think surgery would have cured stomach cancer? Doubtful.

Sent from my LG-P999 using EliteFitness

What?

The point is that people with insurance get the operations they need, and without insurance they don't.

People think that if you don't have insurance you can still get what you need and the government picks up the tab. That's wrong.

She died because she didn't have insurance. The same person with insurance would have lived, or at least would have had their lives prolonged, their quality of life improved, and could have died with dignity, not rolling around in pain in their bed with no help, like an animal.

There are a lot of arguments about healthcare, but minimizing the problem of uninsured people is one of the most bogus.

 

[ceo]

well, I know if an uninsured person comes into the ER/trauma with, say a GSW to the abdomen that requires surgery, they will get that surgery.

Was there no way the woman could have gotten Medicaid, et.al. assistance?

 

[jnevin]

What?

The point is that people with insurance get the operations they need, and without insurance they don't.

People think that if you don't have insurance you can still get what you need and the government picks up the tab. That's wrong.

She died because she didn't have insurance. The same person with insurance would have lived, or at least would have had their lives prolonged, their quality of life improved, and could have died with dignity, not rolling around in pain in their bed with no help, like an animal.

There are a lot of arguments about healthcare, but minimizing the problem of uninsured people is one of the most bogus.

Sorry dude, but stomach cancer isn't usually one that people walk away from. Only difference between people with good insurance and her was the doc and hospital didn't make as much as they would have and she would have had a longer time to know she was going to die. My great grandmother died of that and there was no expense spared to keep her alive.

 

[mrplunkey]

If I can produce an equally gut-wrenching story about a family that lost their home to fire and wasn't insured, could we nationalize home insurance while we're at it?

 

[jnevin]

If I can produce an equally gut-wrenching story about a family that lost their home to fire and wasn't insured, could we nationalize home insurance while we're at it?

People don't need homes, you silly goose.

 

[mrplunkey]

People don't need homes, you silly goose.

I knew this guy once who caught pneumonia because he lost his house and couldn't stay out of the rain. With his dying breath, he said: "Housing.... should.... be.... a .... right."

Lack of national home insurance cost him his life.

 

[ceo]

People don't need homes, you silly goose.

Of course they do! Where else will they live? That should be a guaranteed right just like healthcare. Everyone should be guaranteed a home to live in with insurance. America needs to do a better job taking care of its people. It's a shame we have homeless people here.

 

[bigbassturd]

Lololol!!!!!!!!

 

[75th]

Awwww good old straw man. How I have missed thee.

 

[75th]

Was there no way the woman could have gotten Medicaid, et.al. assistance?

While rules can vary by state, Medicaid is a bitch to qualify for and receive.

 

[Mr. dB]

Awwww good old straw man. How I have missed thee.

And reductio ad absurdium.

 

[ceo]

While rules can vary by state, Medicaid is a bitch to qualify for and receive.

It's even harder to get when you don't try!

 

[Headholio]

Solution to that problem: buy fucking insurance just like every other responsible asshole who wants to be treated when they get sick.

These people had hispanic names but were Americans. The mom and son didn't even speak spanish fluently.
Mom worked cleaning houses. Made something like 13k per year and there was some poverty line for extra medical assistance that was cut off at 12k/yr.

Dad had health problems and worked on and off, served in Viet Nam.
Son served in the first gulf war. Couldn't find a job and came to see me one day. I hired him.

Overall, a family that doesn't fit into the republican model of good old "real americans", but damn good hard working people. Faithful and loyal and family oriented people who just work hard and try to make it as best they can.

I gave the kid a chance, and he has proven himself to be a good employee, now as a lead operator in chemical plant with good pay and benefits. But at the time, there was no way mom was going to be able to buy her own insurance.

 

[Headholio]

Sorry dude, but stomach cancer isn't usually one that people walk away from. Only difference between people with good insurance and her was the doc and hospital didn't make as much as they would have and she would have had a longer time to know she was going to die. My great grandmother died of that and there was no expense spared to keep her alive.

Playing doctor Nevin and telling me your expert prognosis is meaningless. My point is the same whether she had a 100% chance or 10% chance of survival if given the best treatment. The point is she didn't get that treatment. You said everyone in america has access to health care and you are wrong.

 

[jnevin]

These people had hispanic names but were Americans. The mom and son didn't even speak spanish fluently.
Mom worked cleaning houses. Made something like 13k per year and there was some poverty line for extra medical assistance that was cut off at 12k/yr.

Dad had health problems and worked on and off, served in Viet Nam.
Son served in the first gulf war. Couldn't find a job and came to see me one day. I hired him.

Overall, a family that doesn't fit into the republican model of good old "real americans", but damn good hard working people. Faithful and loyal and family oriented people who just work hard and try to make it as best they can.

I gave the kid a chance, and he has proven himself to be a good employee, now as a lead operator in chemical plant with good pay and benefits. But at the time, there was no way mom was going to be able to buy her own insurance.

Mom should have been covered under dad's VA benes.

Their race or name has nothing to do with it, so don't bring that weak argument.

Illegals come here and shit out a kid for free and get assistance right away.

I'm thinking your story is bullshit.

 

[shirlene29]

While rules can vary by state, Medicaid is a bitch to qualify for and receive.

Ct's cut off rate is like 35k a yr income...just went down this road with my brother in law

 

[bigbassturd]

Yup story is full of holes. Too many Vet benefits out there for both medical coverage and employment for me to feel sorry for those who didn't use them.

Can't afford insurance cleaning houses? Get a new fucking job.

Can't get coverage because you're an injured vet? Go to the fucking VA.

Have a hispanic name but are a legal citizen? Get a full fucking ride scholarship based on being a minority.


Fuck off with that shit, everyone in America can get coverage if they are willing to work for it.

 

[redsamurai]

Can't afford insurance cleaning houses? Get a new fucking job.

.

I know right, can't get wood like a man pop a pill right? oh wait, wrong thread?


























bwaaahahahahahahahahahah@limpdicklife

 

[bigbassturd]

Redscam what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm a mid-20s juicer. I get a hard dick just thinking about tits you idiot.

 

[redsamurai]

Redscam what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm a mid-20s juicer. I get a hard dick just thinking about tits you idiot.

uh huh, I guess you also forget the shit you post needle dick.

 

[Headholio]

If I can produce an equally gut-wrenching story about a family that lost their home to fire and wasn't insured, could we nationalize home insurance while we're at it?

Why are you so comfortable with your private fire insurance? It's just a socialist program, its jsut not publically run so there is less incentive for fairness and more incentive to rip you off.

Your arguments against public fire insurance would be the same as for private. Why should I pay these inflated insurance rates to cover risks for people who live in the woods, smoke cigarettes and burn candles? Those people are sucking off me!

Public health insurance is a viable option because it makes economic sense, as proven in most other OECD countries.
If Public fire insurance makes sense then lets do it.

Its laughable that republicans argue about the virtue of paying money to a profit oriented insurance company routinely lets people die to increase profits, while paying executives multi million dollar bonuses.

Yet, paying a tax that in the long run does more for you, for society, and costs you less, is somehow repugnant.

Even republicans of the past decades would find these tea bagger ideas absurd.

 

[bigbassturd]

I didn't forget anything. I am on a big cycle, I run mt2 which contains pt141, and experimented with liquid cia for fun last weekend.

Need any more information about my hard dick, or are you done?

 

[jnevin]

uh huh, I guess you also forget the shit you post needle dick.

If you ever had a sexual relationship with a woman, or when you decide to come out of the closet, you'll find there's nothing wrong with a pill induced iron penis every once in a while just to do it.