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NYC opens first public high school for Gays and Lesbians!!!

rvd_brock said:


You are obviously beyond help. Any remotely scientific mind could understand this fact. You have been too drummed down by Christian propaganda. Yes propaganda. The bible has ZERO evidence behind it. Just a buncha stories. Period. I'm done talking with closed minded person like you. Learn to think, man. Next.

LOL, All the information that I have gathered about evolution over the years has been from non-christian sources. It's SO obvious to see all the weaknesses in Evolutionary Theory. It's funny to see you bail from this debate that you obviously lost by attacking me instead of trying to show that my points were wrong. Maybe if you looked around you would see thousands upon thousands of scientific minds that say the same EXACT things I have been saying to you. If I am wrong then thousands of these extremely smart scientists who have been in their respective fields for decades must also be wrong.

The bible has tons of evidence of creationism but you wouldn't know that since you probably have never even read the bible. All this evidence can be found in scripture but I wouldn't waste my time even posting the scriptures since you don't believe in the bible. What's the point!! The bible has fulfilled hundreds of prophecies accurately, this doesn't sound like a book of stories to me.

You see I'm very open minded, for example muscle brains just posted about Goulds work, something that looks interesting.
So you might wanna read up more on the subjects you talk about before opening your big fucking mouth.
 
rvd_brock said:


You are obviously beyond help. Any remotely scientific mind could understand this fact. You have been too drummed down by Christian propaganda. Yes propaganda. The bible has ZERO evidence behind it. Just a buncha stories. Period. I'm done talking with closed minded person like you. Learn to think, man. Next.

zero evidence for it. thats closed minded. this type of argument always goes completley in a circle. you say stanley miller, i say stereoselective reactions, you say prove the bible i say synthesize a left handed amino acid in the presence of oxygen, you say vestigal organs this, i say vestigal organs that.

point being that youre argument is no less close minded than his.
 
Juicedmullet is right; and I think if this thread turns in this direction again, it's time to move this to a different board or at least a new thread.
 
musclebrains said:
by the way, the debate here on evolution is quite dated. You need to consult Stephen J. Gould's work, especially on "punctuated equilibria," which does indeed question the notion of gradual evolutionary change because of poor fossil evidence. His theory offers an alternative that does not resort to creationism.

The gradualist model of evolution is no longer canonized, mainly because of Gould's work.

From what I gather about the theory of punctuated equilibria, it was formed to address the appearance of the fossil record, not to account for progress, as the original theory of evolution by natural selection already did account for progress. Correct?
Seems there is alot of misconceptions that progress is a concept that relates directly to evolution.
 
FreakMonster said:


From what I gather about the theory of punctuated equilibria, it was formed to address the appearance of the fossil record, not to account for progress, as the original theory of evolution by natural selection already did account for progress. Correct?
Seems there is alot of misconceptions that progress is a concept that relates directly to evolution.

Gould remained quite allied with the fundamental theory of evolution, yes. The particular concern is the absence of records of intermediate species and the question of how new species arise. Darwin, basically under the spell of the economic and social philosophy of his time, assumed a gradual change, an inevitably forward-moving one through natural selection. Gould argues that the basic theory is sound -- there is plenty of evidence (as brock and tierv note)-- but that the change was not necessarily gradual.

Generally, yes, evolutionary theory -- whether social or biological -- tends to presume that the subject moves forward, improves. IN terms of humankind's history, we know this not to be true. History is full of evidence that entire civilizations perish and we can move "backward" for very long periods of time. We presume, too, that we are always moving forward intellectually and yet it would be very hard to find anything written today that exceeds, say, the wisdom contained in the Buddhist dharma (even the core of particle physics is there) or, for that matter, the teachings of Christ.

Usually we like to say that we move forward, fall back, move a little further forward. There is no real reason to think this. An example is the Greeks' heliocentric view of the universe -- completely lost for thousands of years and, when re-posited, it was demonized by the church, which supposedly represented an improvement over the polytheistic pagan religions. There are countless examples of humanity's fall back into ignorance.

But it is also true, in the manner Gould theorizes, that people suddenly leap out of ignorance. The fall of the Berlin wall, the end of the Soviet Union are examples of radical phase changes that were wholly unexpected. IN some ways that is what has happened with the status of gay people this summer. Of course, if you have an Old-Testament viewpoint, this represents a fall back into ignorance.

For me it is a question of what creates the most wellbeing for the most people. All gay people want is the right to love one another without being criminalized. How it is that consenusal love between two people of the same gender theatens the foundations of society, as the Pope argues, I don't understand.

I do understand that legalizing marriage between gay people would radically change the culture's understanding of that institution. The fact that it has become legal in parts of Canada and the European Union represents one of those sudden changes that leaves many people boggled -- as the fall of the wall in Berlin must have.

In reality I see the inclusion of gay people in the marriage ritual as one of many pressures to change an institution that has been faltering for decades. About 50 percent of marriages end in divorce. I think if we looked at our committments less dogmatically -- less according to the taboos of the church -- maybe relationships would endure longer.
 
"If I am wrong then thousands of these extremely smart scientists who have been in their respective fields for decades must also be wrong."

Thousands of extremely smart scientists hundreds of years ago who professed that the Earth was flat. Thousands of extremely smart scientists hundreds of years ago who swore that the Earth was the centre of the universe.

Just thought I'd throw that in there :D

Carry on! *disappears*
 
musclebrains, great post.

musclebrains said:

Generally, yes, evolutionary theory -- whether social or biological -- tends to presume that the subject moves forward, improves. IN terms of humankind's history, we know this not to be true. History is full of evidence that entire civilizations perish and we can move "backward" for very long periods of time. We presume, too, that we are always moving forward intellectually and yet it would be very hard to find anything written today that exceeds, say, the wisdom contained in the Buddhist dharma (even the core of particle physics is there) or, for that matter, the teachings of Christ.

It is true that we continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. This happens because only a tiny minority has a deep interest in history and politics. Many people have opinions about what goes on but very few knows or cares about what will help in the long run. People just want fast help to what ever is currently bothering them.

A person doing this has nothing to do with how we are evolving. No matter how smart everyone becomes many will continue to do this out of selfishness. I don’t think any amount of evolution will change that.
 
even if hypothetically darwin was completely wrong, that is still no evidence toward the Bible being right.

Sounds like its time for another thread dealing with the contradictions of the bible.
 
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