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News article on the 8 US Army Soldiers killed yesterday....

Big Buck

Elite Mentor
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This really sucks....7 or 8 killed, 40 more wounded. Let's pray for our guys still over there....

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/064/nation/Few_details_released_in_attack_on_copters+.shtml

Seven or eight American soldiers were killed, and 40 more were wounded yesterday when two US helicopters took enemy fire during the most deadly allied air and ground offensive of the war in Afghanistan.



The assault, code-named Operation Anaconda, marked a new approach by US commanders. Instead of relying on Afghan forces to take the fight to Al Qaeda, with US troops in support, the Americans took the lead. Afghan, Canadian, Australian, German, Danish, Norwegian, and French forces were supporting.

The men killed yesterday were not the first US casualties in the new offensive, which appeared far from finished. Army Chief Warrant Officer Stanley Harriman, 34, of Wade, N.C., was killed in a ground attack Saturday shortly after American forces, joined by Afghan and other allied troops, began the offensive against hundreds of fighters of the Al Qaeda terror network and the former ruling Taliban militia, who are dug in near the town of Gardez.

Names of the Americans killed yesterday were being withheld until relatives could be notified.

The operation is being commanded by Major General Franklin Hagenbeck, commanding general of the Army's 10th Mountain Division.

Details on the two helicopter incidents were sketchy, and the US and Afghan death toll was uncertain.

''The fog of war will persist'' until more of the soldiers involved are brought back and debriefed, Army General Tommy Franks, commander of US Central Command, said at a news conference in Tampa, where he is headquartered. He said that, in all, either eight or nine Americans were killed.

Franks estimated that 100 to 200 enemy fighters had been killed and that a small number detained. They included Al Qaeda fighters, Taliban militia, and Chechen and Uzbek fighters, he said.

Besides the soldier lost when he fell from his chopper, Franks said that seven or eight soldiers were killed in the second incident. Franks said that all the killed and wounded were recovered in a subsequent rescue operation that he watched by video link from his Tampa headquarters.

Rumsfeld said that about half of the 40 wounded soldiers had returned to battle.

The death toll yesterday was the largest US loss from a single battle in Afghanistan, where fighting began Oct. 7. There have been several accidental crashes of other craft, including one in which seven Marines were killed when a refueling plane crashed in Pakistan.
 
Big Buck said:

Franks......watched by video link from his Tampa headquarters.


Hey Franks,

why are you watching from Tampa when the battle is in Asia? This kind of leadership is why more Americans will die.
 
This sucks but infortunately its part of the game. I just hope that now it wont happen the same like in Somalia.:(
 
Re: Re: News article on the 8 US Army Soldiers killed yesterday....

MattTheSkywalker said:


Hey Franks,

why are you watching from Tampa when the battle is in Asia? This kind of leadership is why more Americans will die.

No shit huh....the old cliches should be followed. Lead from the front...and leadership by example.
 
even Schwarzkopf was in country, although he stayed in a bunker the whole time. His absence meant he couldn't make critical decisions at the right time and we left a job undone.

Can you picture general Patton holed up in a bunker, or in tampa?
 
Days of the Tantric said:


How do you explain all of the casualties that have been by our own hand, whether it be plane crashes, copter crashes or friendly fire? Is it a lack of leadership and training?

This is a good question.

Also, Buck... why did most people seem to go on a 3 month mission, then come home??? I thought tours were longer than that... and if the war was still going on... why did they send you guy's home? Or is there still a large % that stayed???
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Days of the Tantric said:
Buck,Matt I understand that casualties are a part of war. It's unfortunate that they have to happen. How do you explain all of the casualties that have been by our own hand, whether it be plane crashes, copter crashes or friendly fire? Is it a lack of leadership and training?

You can receive the best training in the world, but nothing will prepare you for actual combat. People freeze up....and make mistakes. It happens.

Crazy1-It all depends on your unit. The Army took over the base at Kandhar, so the Marines there came home. Also, whenever a unit comes back, a unit is already there to take its place (usually). So my unit could be back again in 6 months or a year...maybe not. Even in peace time, MEUs are always deployed. Depending on the MEU you're attached to, generally you will deploy for 6 months and then be back for 18 months. Unless you're in Hawaii, were you will do UDPs for 7 months to Okinawa (and generally other Asian countries...ie Korea, China etc.) and be back for 14 months before deploying again. Confused yet...LOL :)
 
helicopter crashes occur because at the end of the day, a helicopter is a big floating target.

You DON'T use them to achieve air superiority. You use fixed wing aircraft. Once you;ve done that, use the helicopters (which we did here).

The problem is, you can't lead ground troops with helicopters. The helicopters are supposed to follow the ground troops, not the other way around.

everything the military has is designed to support the man on the ground. Ulitmately, that's how you win the war.

Modern leadership wants tofight bloodless wars (Impossible) so they want to send helicopters in to clean up before the man on the ground gets there. This often works because our helicopters can kill a lot of people.

The right way to do it is for the man on the ground to engage the enemy, and the helicopters be nearby, so that they can be called on and quickly give the ground troops overwhelming advantage. Doing it the other way gets you this.
 
Big Buck said:

Well damn... do you remember back when my name was Crazy1 before my account got screwed and I had to come back as Crazier... or was that just a coincidence???

Thanks for the info... glad you got to come home by the way. You get to go home and see your son yet? Problems worked out with your girl bro???
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