Newbie, Questions About Routine

[David18]

Hi all, I'm new here and have some questions about my exercise regime.
I started working out about 3 weeks ago and although I have seen some improvements, they are not drastic. I have recently learned that nutrition intake is important and will be increasing my calorie intake.

I am 5' 9" and weigh 126lb. I have two routines that I alternate Sunday to Friday and then have a 5k run on Saturday. The routines are as follows:

1: Arms, Chest and Abs.
- Biceps - Alternate Dumbell Curls (15lb each) - 10 reps each arm.
- Chest - Wide Grip Bench Press (35lb barbell) - 15 reps.
- Triceps - Seated Tricep Extension (10lb dumbell) - 12 reps each arm.
- Abs - Sit-ups - 2 sets of 20 reps.
- Biceps - Barbell Curl (35lb barbell) - 15 reps.
- Chest - Flat Dumbell Fly's (15lb dumbells) - 15 reps.
- Triceps - Short Grip Bench Press (35lb barbell) - 15 reps.
- Abs - Leg extensions - 20 reps.

2: Shoulders, Back and Legs.
- Shoulders - Alternate Front Arm Raise (10lb dumbell) - 15 reps each arm.
- Back - Bent Over Rear Arm Raise (10lb dumbell) - 15 reps.
- Legs - Lunges (35lb barbell) - 20 reps.
- Abs - Sit-ups - 2 sets of 20 reps.
- Shoulders - Shoulder Press (35lb barbell) - 15 reps.
- Back - Upright Rows (35lb barbell) - 12 reps.
- Legs - Squats (35lb barbell) - 10 reps.
- Biceps - Barbell Curl (35lb barbell) - 15 reps.

I do each routine twice through and they take about half an hour each in total (16 exercises a day). One of the main questions I wanted to ask was is it better to repeat sets as I am or straight after each other (ie. do each exercise twice and only go through the list once)?

Please could someone have a look at the workout and point out any mistakes or improvements to be made for maximum muscle growth.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[mrhoon]

As for your food intake, start a journal. Note when you eat, and what you eat for a week. Then do your calculations for those foods. I use the Complete Book of Food Counts, by Corinne T. Netzer. Once your calories, and macronutrient ratios are figured you can adjust as necessary. When that is done we can help more. I make a cheat sheet of all the foods that I eat everyday so I'm not constantly searching through the book.

Your routine is ok. But since you are just beginning I want to say start doing dead lifts now. You shoul really focus on the basic compound movements.
Bench
Squat
Deadlift
Bent Row
Standing Overhead Press
Pullups
and I like shrugs, powercleans, and hanging knee raises.
For frequency, I would start at twice a week and work to 3 times as you get stronger and more comfortable with the lifts. To begin your rep/set scheme is probably ok for the first couple of months. There is no better way to learn something than "the right way, from the beginning". You are in a great spot right now. You will see that you can get a good, if not great arm workout from the pulling and pushing movements you are doing. Doing more for your arms will make your recovery longer. Compound movements are King when it comes to stimulating growth. You should learn to do them properly from the beginning. Check out the Powerlifting forum for quality descriptions on the basic exercises.

I think that covers it. Are you lifting with friends? At a gym, ?
Good luck, and get after it man!!!!

Also, if you haven't yet, check out ALL of the Newbie threads in the different forums. Good sources of info and time and money saving lessons.

 

[rbtrout]

Mrhoon said it all. Since you are a newbie, make sure you concentrate on all of the compound movements. Also, concentrate on form! Read everything you can on the exercises on this website. Ask questions, but make sure you do each exercise correctly, this will prevent injuries as you go along.
I didn't see massive gains in my first 3 weeks, either. Just hang in there and keep working out, the gains will come. Make sure you're eating properly - clean food, higher in protein and eat enough! Many newbies don't eat enough.

 

[David18]

Thanks, I lift at home by myself, that's why all my exercises are free weights.
I will incorporate the Deadlifts and take a closer look at my diet.

Do you think I should cut down to each routine twice a week instead of three times a week then? I'll probably up the barbell to 45lb soon and lower the reps.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[rbtrout]

I would do most of the exercises together and do 4 sets (maybe 5) - biceps, triceps and chest for sure; this will kind of combine both of your routines. Do biceps all at once, for example. Instead of doing 2 sets of 35 pounds for 15 reps, try this - 1st set 35 for 15 reps; 2nd set 45 for 12 reps; 3rd set 55 for 10 reps and the 4th set 65 for 6 reps. You'll find that this will be all you need for doing biceps. Attack your triceps the same way. I'd nix the close grip bench press and go with French curls (also known as skull crushers), this is a good size building exercise. To do skull crushers, lay down on your bench with your arms extended above your head (bb in hand). Lower the bb to the top of your forehead, keeping your upper arms as stationary as possible. Press the bb up from your forehead still keeping your upper arms stationary. If you use too much weight and/or go down too fast, you'll hit yourself in the forehead - thus the name skull crushers.
I'd also throw out the lunges and replace them with deadlifts. DL's work the entire body. Once you get some weight going, you'll want to change the routine so that you do squats one day, have at least a day in between and then do dl's.
As you get more advanced, you'll want to change around your routine, but this is the website for assistance. Good luck, any questions, just post it or pm (private message) me or any of the guys and gals.

 

[mrhoon]

I would do each of the exercises that I listed at each workout, 2 times a week. If you are giving your workouts 100% and are recovering easily, maybe go to 3x. But at that point you may want to split your bodyparts, and move into something else. Like the 5x5. Right now work on your food journal, practicing the compound lifts, and read.

 

[Ish]

What are your goals?

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks, I lift at home by myself, that's why all my exercises are free weights.

This is a good thing not a bad one. There is a reason why many of us avoid machines like the plague. Believe me, I'm a lazy person. If I could sit down on some nice padding and just move the pin around and not slag plates and still get the same results in the same amount of time - I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, you can work like a dog and not get half the results of the free weight equivalent.

Listen to mrhoon, use those exercises and focus on getting good at them and gradually increasing the weight as you become proficient. You will be amazed and all the people doing the fancy magazine routines and training in the expensive gyms will be jealous and claiming that you must have good genetics or some other excuse. Of course, you will need to eat if you want to grow and get bigger but that's really all there is to it for a novice.

 

[David18]

Ok, I have come up with this new routene. Its a three day course and I repeat it twice a week so im lifting 6 days a week and doing the run on saturday. I added the short Grip Bench Press on Day 3 to work the inner pecs aswell as the triceps though triceps mainly.
Any comments will be gratefully recieved.
I have also altered my diet to a lot more calories and protein but I'll have to do that for a bit before I can calculate exact intakes.

Day 1
Chest Wide Grip Bench Press 45lb Barbell 15
Flat Dumbell Flys 15lb Dumbell 15
Wide Grip Bench Press 45lb Barbell 12
Flat Dumbell Flys 15lb Dumbell 12
Abs Sit-ups 2 x 20
Leg Extensions 20
Side Sit-ups 2 x 20
Crunches 10
Back Bent Over Rear Arm Raise 10lb Dumbell 12
Upright Rows 45lb Barbell 10
Bent Over Rear Arm Raise 10lb Dumbell 10
Upright Rows 45lb Barbell 8


Day 2
Biceps Alternate Dumbell Curls 15lb Dumbell 24
Barbell Curls 45lb Barbell 10
Alternate Dumbell Curls 15lb Dumbell 20
Barbell Curls 45lb Barbell 8
Shoulders Side Arm Raises 10lb Dumbell 10
Shoulder Press 45lb Barbell 12
Side Arm Raises 10lb Dumbell 8
Shoulder Press 45lb Barbell 10

Day 3
Triceps Seated Tricep Extension 10lb Dumbell 12
Skull Crushers 20lb Barbell 10
Short Grip Bench Press 45lb Barbell 10
Seated Tricep Extension 10lb Dumbell 10
Skull Crushers 20lb Barbell 8
Short Grip Bench Press 45lb Barbell 8
Legs Deadlifts 15lb Dumbell 10
Squats 35lb Barbell 10
Deadlifts 15lb Dumbell 8
Squats 35lb Barbell 8


Sorry if it's a bit hard to read, its copied from a spreadsheet. I'll attach the file if you want to read it properly.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Madcow2]

Dave, I don't think that's likely to have been close to what anyone had in mind when they were advising you. There's a lot of major problems (no # sets listed, the order of exercises is about as bad as can be, far far far too much assistance work and misc bullshit). Instead of recreating the wheel from scratch, why not just use a basic pre-written program. You've been working out for 3 weeks. You'll make 10x the gains on something like this than you would on anything you could possibly put together or copy from most of the junk BBing programs running around: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

Sweat the small stuff after you get big and strong. You are only a true novice once so don't waste it on the crap.

 

[David18]

I had a look at that routine but i don't really like it. I thought compound exercises were good to do. Also building my own routine is half the fun.

I have looked at a couple of workouts on other sites and have come up with this, please have a look and see if its ok. I know that Day 1 is heavier than the others but I have an extra body part to work on that day.

Day 1: (Chest Abs and Back, Total 18 Sets)

Chest: Wide Grip Bench Press - 3 Sets - 15, 12, 10 Reps.
Flat Dumbell Flys - 3 Sets - 15, 12, 10 Reps.
Abs: Weighted Sit-ups - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Leg Extensions - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Weighted Side Sit-ups - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Crunches - 2 Sets - 10, 10 Reps.
Back: Bent Over Rear Arm Raise - 2 Sets - 12, 10 Reps.
Upright Rows - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.

Day 2: (Biceps and Shoulders, Total 12 Sets)

Biceps: Alternate Dumbell Curls - 3 Sets - 24, 20, 16 Reps.
Barbell Curls - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Shoulders: Side Arm Raises - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Shoulder Press - 3 Sets - 12, 10, 8 Reps.

Day 3: (Triceps and Legs, Total Sets 12)

Triceps: Seated Tricep Extension - 2 Sets - 12, 10 Reps.
Skull Crushers - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.
Short Grip Bench Press - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.
Legs: Dead Lifts - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Squats - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.

I like the exercises that i'm doing so any advise on the order or sets or reps would be best.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[JL_204]

Day 1: (Chest Abs and Back, Total 18 Sets)

Chest: Wide Grip Bench Press - 3 Sets - 15, 12, 10 Reps.
Flat Dumbell Flys - 3 Sets - 15, 12, 10 Reps.
Abs: Weighted Sit-ups - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Leg Extensions - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Weighted Side Sit-ups - 2 Sets - 15, 15 Reps.
Crunches - 2 Sets - 10, 10 Reps.
Back: Bent Over Rear Arm Raise - 2 Sets - 12, 10 Reps.
Upright Rows - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.

Day 2: (Biceps and Shoulders, Total 12 Sets)

Biceps: Alternate Dumbell Curls - 3 Sets - 24, 20, 16 Reps.
Barbell Curls - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Shoulders: Side Arm Raises - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Shoulder Press - 3 Sets - 12, 10, 8 Reps.

Day 3: (Triceps and Legs, Total Sets 12)

Triceps: Seated Tricep Extension - 2 Sets - 12, 10 Reps.
Skull Crushers - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.
Short Grip Bench Press - 2 Sets - 10, 8 Reps.
Legs: Dead Lifts - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.
Squats - 3 Sets - 10, 8, 6 Reps.

If you insist on doing this then go ahead, but i gaurantee youll be back sometime in the future saying "ive hit a plateau, i havent gained any strength in ages".

I suggest you listen to madcow2.

 

[Madcow2]

Ahh - what you may not realize is that 99% of BBing training info that you find is absolute garbage. The most popular "routines" today are largely based off ignorance and misinterpretation of science. The sad thing is that I'm not exagerating in any way and anyone who really knows what they are talking about will tell you the same thing (most times in a much less politically correct manner like 'Flex and M&F aren't fit for toilet paper' or some such). As a sport BBing uses drugs to succeed in spite of their far from optimal training. You can always take more to compensate for an even shittier program. Trust me, if I posted my real thoughts when I saw some of these programs and hear some of the fantasy garbage that get's spewed I'd get banned very quickly from all of the rookie BBing boards on the net. Combine that with the fact that I actually have at least a half decent knowledgebase by most anyone's standard and you see where that leaves BBing. This is literally the only field of knowledge in the world where if you go the store and buy some magazines you get total false crap that is worthless to anyone not a novice or drugged enough to obtain novice-like results. It is that bad and if you make an effort to learn about this stuff, you'll find out pretty quickly.

Anyway, the back is your entire posterior chain. It's absolutely fundemental to development, much more so than the chest or arms. You want to be pulling from the floor in some manner (usually the deadlift is the simplest to learn) as well as rowing into you. You don't have rows and the upright row is largely a light shoulder exercise. I don't know what a bent over rear arm raise is but it doesn't sound promising. If you are only going to deadlift on one day don't combine it with squats.

Leg extensions are listed under abs on Monday but I'm thinking you mean leg raises because extensions are to isolate the quads.

If you are only going to squat and dead one day a week, they shouldn't be done together. Move the dead to the back day.

The heavy compound lifts should be done first and then followed with whatever iso work you choose.

It's fun to make your own program but I'd really suggest you try something that's absolutely known to work first (which probably won't look much like what you have here). That way you base your choices on past success and not BBing heresay. At first, everything will work to a degree but later on it as progress halts you'll think back to this conversation.

Anyway, you can confirm all of this by posting your goals and routine in this forum in the general section: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/. Some of the better strength coaches, olympic lifters, power lifters, and strongmen frequent that forum and all of them know quite a bit about putting on muscle and making people big and strong. Also try the forums at www.fortifiediron.com. Where my opinions might seem odd in the BBing world, you will find they are largely homogenous with those who have taken the time to really work hard and study this stuff.

I guarantee you, visiting those places will enable you to progress at 10-20x the rate of using what you wrote above. I'm not exagerating.

I'm honestly doing my best to save you from the nasty BBing training pitfall. There is a reason why the Starr 5x5 program is popular in this forum. It actually works and works really well, and that's something that the BBing programs today as a whole simply don't do. Take that for what you will but I am being 100% constructive and many here have fallen into the same trap before so we are very familiar with it.

 

[David18]

The bent over rear arm raises are these, http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Seated+Bent+Over+Rear+Delt+Raise but they actually work the shoulders so I'll have to find a different back exercise.

In your previous post you said that free weights are better than machines and I've heard this is because free weights use more muscles to support your body etc. so you get a better workout. Sorry if this is frustrating but I'm just trying to make sense of all the advise out there because like you say there is a lot of it and a lot of it is crap.

Sorry bout the leg extensions too, I did mean leg raises.

You also said in your previous post to do all the exercises mrhoon said, well I do all of those I can (as I don't have a bar for pull-ups etc.) and I will add the powercleans on day 3.

You say do 5x5, is this 5 sets of 5 reps per body part or per exercise because at the moment I'm doing 3 reps per exercise with two exercises per body part which makes six reps total. I will add more weight to bring the reps down to 5 for each as you say but I want to understand the 5x5 properly.

Thanks for all your help, it is much apriciated.

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Madcow2]

I never mind helping, like I said so much of this stuff is absolute crap that it's unlike any other field I've come accross. I'll try to cover a few things.

The idea behind mrhoon's post was that your workout should be structured around those lifts not just make sure that you do them a bit (you basically included them as much as you do any of the really crappy isolation things). You can develop a fabulous physique with just the basics and these are the lifts that drive 95% of your gains. Recovery is limited so it makes sense to be a mizer with your recuperative capacity and not dilute your efforts on exercises which yield poor comparative results.

Think of a free weight as an absolutely customized machine that moves perfectly in line with your own body's natural lines. The body is best stimulated and worked as a system. The best exercises are those that load the system with the most weight and work it through a fundemental range of motion (i.e. the squat and the deadlift). Progress in these exercises grow the entire body and facilitate gains over the whole structure. Now take what I just said and think about the implications for the stability required for free weights and the benefits there. Fairly logical.

So you wind up with exercises like the squat, deadlift, bench, row, overhead press, and chins. These are the basic fundemental movements of the body. There is nothing left unstimulated. Your whole body will grow - arms, calves, neck all of it. Granted, maybe you want to throw in some direct arm work if you enjoy doing it but isolation work tends to fluff out what is there (or correct imbalances as needed - and this is what they should be used for to facilitate better performance in the core lifts) but as far as long term progress drivers, this is it.

So as far as 5x5, this is 5 sets of 5 reps. The 4-6 rep range is pretty solid for building a foundation of strength and hypertrophy in the core lifts and the 5 set range stems from meeting a general volume. You might want to build into this.

When you first start, you want to spend your time learning the lifts and allowing your body to acclimate. If I was first starting you can bet I'd be focusing on that core group and not much else (okay to train arms with curls and extensions should you choose because everybody will anyway). You should also perform each set by increasing the weight, you'll see a lot of people train with a constant weight at 5 sets of 5 but this is a lot more taxing and not appropriate for a beginner.

Basically, if you do a lot of squats, benches, rows, pulls/deads, and overhead presses - you are going to get big and strong fairly quickly. You don't need a lot of isolation work or fancy machines and cables. It's not as glamorous as a pretty Bodymasters machine but you'll get 10x the gains in a fraction of the time.

Unless you already know how to powerclean, forget that lift for now. You have enough to worry about without dealing with the technique (and it is a complex lift and the success for those self taught is marginal at best). There are other ways to use clean pulls and high pulls to avoid the technique issue but maybe some day make an effort to learn. www.usaweightlifting.org can supply a list of coaches in your area. A friend of mine gets free training on top equipment every Saturday - might be worth your time. If you want, give it a shot - you are likely to get the same speil on lifting from any of their coaches that you get from me.

I have to get back to the family but that should address some of it. If you want I can provide links to exercise descriptions and some vids and give you something to try for 6-8 weeks. Once you get up to speed on the lifts you can give on of the other programs a try. Then if you want (and I encourage you to do it), take 4 weeks and train with all the isolation exercises like you have laid out above - I guarantee you will stop that after the first few sessions.

 

[Ish]

Building your own routine is fun, but if you plan on actually getting something out of it, you need to know what you are doing. Madcow has offered very sound advice. You have very high rep ranges. What are you going for there? You are working very odd splits. Any reason for that? You've got alot of fluff exercises in there too. On your day 1, you have no actual back work. What are your goals again?

 

[David18]

Hi all, sorry to be annoying by the posts but I wonder if you could check this routine. Please tell me what exercises don't do much. I have lowered the reps and upped the sets.

Day 1
Chest
Wide Grip Bench Press - 6, 6, 6
Normal Grip Bench Press - 6, 6, 6
Flat Dumbell Flys - 6, 6, 6
Abs
Bicycle - 25, 25
Weighted Sit-ups - 15, 15
Leg Raises - 10, 10
Weighted Side Sit-ups - 15, 15
Crunches - 10, 10
Back
Upright Rows - 6, 6
One Arm Dumbell Row - 6, 6
Deadlifts - 6, 6

Day 2
Biceps
Alternate Dumbell Curls - 6, 6, 6
Barbell Curls - 6, 6, 6
Shoulders
Side Arm Raises - 6, 6
Shoulder Press - 6, 6
Bent Over Rear Arm Raise - 6, 6

Day 3
Triceps
Seated Tricep Extension - 6, 6
Skull Crushers - 6, 6
Short Grip Bench Press 6, 6
Legs
Squats - 6, 6, 6
Standing Calf Raise - 6, 6, 6

Ish, my goals are to bulk up with muscle, trying to keep my body fat as low as possible. I also do a 2.5K run once a week but am aiming to increase that to 5K once I am able.
Also, even when I do the bench press sets and flys to failure my I still can't feel it in my chest the next day like I could when I first started, is this normal.

Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers, Dave.