Newbie HRT questions (kinda long... sorry)

[Jeffro]

Hello, all! I'm 40 years old, and after doing some reasearch into symptoms I've been having, I thought I might have low testosterone, and upping my levels might benefit me. Not wanting to deal with my local GP, knowing the medical community's less-than-positive attitudes about TRT, I went through an out of town clinic that does your blood tests, then sends you to a local doc to do a "physical exam" and write the script to make everything legal, then the out-of-town clinic fills the script through a compounding pharmacy. This makes it very easy to get T, but the local doc is usually a hack just doing it for the $ who can't help with questions (mine was a retired plastic surgeon).

So anyway, the protocol they set up for me is as follows:

50mg test cyp injected IM twice weekly (100 mg/wk total)
50mg DHEA/day
25mg Clomid/day
600 units HCG injected subQ 2x/wk

Everything came to me in a package with 25ga 5/8" pins, insulin pins for the HCG, but with no instructions or anything.

So anyway, I get online to try to figure out how to inject meysef, and find some pretty good info. First thing I realize is the 5/8" pins are useless for IM test injections (not sure why they sent them), so I ordered some 25ga 1" for thigh injections, and 25ga 1 1/2" for glutes from an online site.

Last night I gave myself my first injection in the thigh. I think I understand pretty well the whole thing of keeping it sanitary, using alcohol swabs on the vial and the injection site, not touching the needle, etc. It was surprisingly painless and easy. I think that may be due to the 25ga needle. It is smaller than most sites recommend, but I was still able to push the oil in, just took a bit longer. Although when I tried to pull the plunger back to aspirate, I was having a hard time getting it to go back easily, so I'm not sure if I did it right, but not seeing any obvious blood I just said screw it and pushed the oil in.

There was no pain or soreness at all last night after the injection or even when I woke up this morning, although right now about 24 hours after the shot I'm starting to get some soreness. Is this normal? When do I have to worry about injection site issues where I would have to see a doc? If it were sore right away I wouldn't be concerned, but the delayed-onset makes me wonder.

Going forward, I have questions about site rotation, etc. It seems to me there are only 4 injection sites: 2 thighs and two glutes. That would mean each site gets re-used every two weeks with twice-weekly injects. Does this injection schedule even seem right to you, given that most HRT people recommend 1x weekly shots? Could I use the 5/8" pins to inject my delts, giving me two more sites? Am I even using the right size needles?

My next question concerns the HCG. I understand what this is used for following an AAS cycle, but why include it when I'm going to be on exogenous test premanently? The next thing is I don't have the first freaking clue where or how to inject this stuff.

I don't really understand the Clomid either. I always thought that was for PCT, and what I sould be on now is an anti-aromatase like Arimidex. Any thoughts?

Lastly, how long does it usually take to "feel" something from test? I know I only took 50mg yesterday, I'm just curious. I've read that some docs like to front-load when starting someone on TRT, say 200mg for the first shot, and I'm thinking about injecting aother 100mg or so today considering how easily yeaterday's injection went.

Anyway, any thoughts, advice, or comments from those of you who have been doing this for a while would be awesome. Thanks in advance, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[goin on 4T]

See Below:

Hello, all! I'm 40 years old, and after doing some reasearch into symptoms I've been having, I thought I might have low testosterone, and upping my levels might benefit me. Not wanting to deal with my local GP, knowing the medical community's less-than-positive attitudes about TRT, I went through an out of town clinic that does your blood tests, then sends you to a local doc to do a "physical exam" and write the script to make everything legal, then the out-of-town clinic fills the script through a compounding pharmacy. This makes it very easy to get T, but the local doc is usually a hack just doing it for the $ who can't help with questions (mine was a retired plastic surgeon).

So anyway, the protocol they set up for me is as follows:

50mg test cyp injected IM twice weekly (100 mg/wk total)
50mg DHEA/day
25mg Clomid/day
600 units HCG injected subQ 2x/wk

Everything came to me in a package with 25ga 5/8" pins, insulin pins for the HCG, but with no instructions or anything.

So anyway, I get online to try to figure out how to inject meysef, and find some pretty good info. First thing I realize is the 5/8" pins are useless for IM test injections (not sure why they sent them), so I ordered some 25ga 1" for thigh injections, and 25ga 1 1/2" for glutes from an online site.

Last night I gave myself my first injection in the thigh. I think I understand pretty well the whole thing of keeping it sanitary, using alcohol swabs on the vial and the injection site, not touching the needle, etc. It was surprisingly painless and easy. I think that may be due to the 25ga needle. It is smaller than most sites recommend, but I was still able to push the oil in, just took a bit longer. Although when I tried to pull the plunger back to aspirate, I was having a hard time getting it to go back easily, so I'm not sure if I did it right, but not seeing any obvious blood I just said screw it and pushed the oil in. Only pull back a little bit dont try to suck your muscle inside the needle LOL

There was no pain or soreness at all last night after the injection or even when I woke up this morning, although right now about 24 hours after the shot I'm starting to get some soreness. Is this normal? If you moved the needle while it was inside the body you might have some internal muscle tears.When do I have to worry about injection site issues where I would have to see a doc? When the site turns red and feels warm and puffy/swolen, then start to worry you may also get a slight feever If it were sore right away I wouldn't be concerned, but the delayed-onset makes me wonder.

Going forward, I have questions about site rotation, etc. It seems to me there are only 4 injection sites: 2 thighs and two glutes. There are many - bi's, delt's and trap's all overThat would mean each site gets re-used every two weeks with twice-weekly injects. Does this injection schedule even seem right to you, given that most HRT people recommend 1x weekly shots? I do bi-weekly and just switch L & R glute Could I use the 5/8" pins to inject my delts, giving me two more sites? Yes Am I even using the right size needles? I use 1.5" glutes, 1" quads, 5/8" are fine for delt's and I also use 25 guage.

My next question concerns the HCG. I understand what this is used for following an AAS cycle, but why include it when I'm going to be on exogenous test premanently? To keep ur nuts from disappearing forever! The next thing is I don't have the first freaking clue where or how to inject this stuff. Intramuscular just like the test!

I don't really understand the Clomid either. I always thought that was for PCT, and what I sould be on now is an anti-aromatase like Arimidex. Any thoughts? Keeps your natty test producing and will give you giant loads!

Lastly, how long does it usually take to "feel" something from test? 24-72 hours after inject but takes 2-3 weeks for the build up to max level I know I only took 50mg yesterday, I'm just curious. I've read that some docs like to front-load when starting someone on TRT, say 200mg for the first shot, and I'm thinking about injecting aother 100mg or so today considering how easily yeaterday's injection went.

Anyway, any thoughts, advice, or comments from those of you who have been doing this for a while would be awesome. Thanks in advance, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[clozto50]

Well first thing is to see if you can get at least 100mg/ml next time,this will eliminate biweekly injections.Next 25 g is pretty small but they are good for shoulders also.Hcg ,clomid well its expensive in the US. so they sold it to you to make more profit bottom line is with trt your wasting your money.N

 

[motodawg]

See Below:

Good job 4T

 

[Jeffro]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Te soreness I had lasted about two days, never got very bad, then went away. I just did my second inject yesterday n the other quad. 100 mg this time. The cyp is dosed 100mg/ml, they instructed me to inject 0.5cc 2x/wk, said 2x weekly would make more stable levels, but I want to frontload it a bit, so this shot and the next in a few days I'm going a full cc.

I can't get over how painless it is. I fully expected injecting to be an ordeal. Needle slips right in, no big deal. I guess next shot is a glute, so I'll see if that's more of a pain in the ass, so to speak.

I'm finding drawing up the oil difficult with the 25ga, end up with air bubbles I have to contend with too. I've read some people draw it up with a 20ga, then change needles to the smaller 25ga before injecting. Anyone do it this way?

I'm still concerned they have me on a SERM like Clomid (I've read about potential bad side effects with clomid as well). I still think an anti-aromatase like Arimidex would be better.

So I should inject the HCG im? The Rx label clearly says subQ. Does anyone use it, and if so where/how do you inject?

 

[thelion2005]

My comments:
(1) I don't trust clinics.
(2) You are being very careful and that is good. Continue.
(3) After you get used to injections, you'll do this quickly with no worries.
(4) I see no HGH. See if you can get this to take with the test.
(5) If you have never used aas, your body will react strongly to even this small amount.
(6) Have fun!! Look for gains. Look for sides.

 

[Jeffro]

My comments:
(1) I don't trust clinics.
(2) You are being very careful and that is good. Continue.
(3) After you get used to injections, you'll do this quickly with no worries.
(4) I see no HGH. See if you can get this to take with the test.
(5) If you have never used aas, your body will react strongly to even this small amount.
(6) Have fun!! Look for gains. Look for sides.

How much of a difference does HGH really make? I can get it (from the same place) and I can afford it, but it is expensive and I questioned if the cost/benefit was really there. I'm doing this mainly to feel better and improve all my "low hormone" symptoms, but body composition improvments are certainly welcome as well. Who knows, since I have access, a year down the road I might consider trying a "cycle" by significantly upping the test and adding HGH for 8 or 12 weeks. For now though, I'm mainly just looking for the hormone replacment benefits.

I hear you about the clinics. I'm just not willing to "interview" two dozen general practice doctors until I find one who will prescribe test. For now, as long as I know my stuff is real, properly dosed, sterile, and legal, I'm good.

Thanks!

 

[clozto50]

Hcg or hgh big difference? Ive used hgh and unless you are in for the long haul hgh (min 3 months but better on 6) just aint worth it.. To tell you the truth a little test and good diet can make dramatic changes in your physique.Hcg just keeps your balls from shrinking .Still clomid is a big waste of $$ bottom line,and arimidex also being expensive is in question.Your just not doing that much test!

 

[Jeffro]

Hcg or hgh big difference? Ive used hgh and unless you are in for the long haul hgh (min 3 months but better on 6) just aint worth it.. To tell you the truth a little test and good diet can make dramatic changes in your physique.Hcg just keeps your balls from shrinking .Still clomid is a big waste of $$ bottom line,and arimidex also being expensive is in question.Your just not doing that much test!

Origionally I was asking about hcg, since I have it and it was included in my program, I just cant figure out what to do with it or whether I really need it or not. I know it starts natural test production back up after a cycle, I just don't know how much of an issue this is if I'm injecting all the test I need. My most recent post was about hgh in response to thelion2005's post. I am willing to add in hgh long-term in if it has real benefit. With testosterone, anyone with a brain knows it's beneficial in many ways, but the jury seems to still be out on hgh, excluding of course pro-bodybuilder level doses coupled with insulin, and that's an arena I'm not interested in playing in. I'm not wanting to compete or get "big", I just want to feel better, improve my health, and hopefully see better results from my training.

 

[clozto50]

Truth be told unless you are well over 50 (in my humble opinion) hgh is way to expensive !! As stated before diet, exercise and the big T can produce amazing results .If you have a source adding a 100mg/ml of trenbolone e will give your test a turbo charge.I believe for me anyway its a poor mans hgh,it has produced fantastic results.