New routine idea, opinions?

[Debaser]

This is a fairly simple routine (mine usually are), but with a few subtle touches that I think might be of benefit...


Monday

Overhead Press - 1 x 10
Pulldown or chin - 1 x 10
Sumo Deadlift - 5 singles (when all 5 are done move up 5 lbs)
Static hold - 60 seconds
Back extension - 1 x 10
Side bend - 1 x 10


Thursday

Dips - 2 x 5
Rows - 2 x 5
Squats - 2 x 5
Stiff-legged Deadlift - 2 x 5
L-Fly - 1 x 10 lying, 1 x 10 standing
Ab work - 1 x 10

**I think everything will tie in together well. I decided to vary the rep range between the different planes of motion. This will allow the benefits (to whatever degree) of lower rep and higher rep training to intertwine.

I pooled my knowledge from different things that I have read on this board:

- The reason I'm choosing singles on the deadlifts is based on Spatt's views. The deadlift is a single lift with no eccentric. It should be trained as such. I've found that the eccentric on a deadlift is awkward for me anyway. HOWEVER, I am STILL building eccentric strength with the addition of Stiff-legged deadlifts on Thursday, which will make for powerful accessory work for the posterior chain, not to mention a movement that feels natural on the way down.

- I'm using the needsize method of progression on the deadlift singles. That is, not increasing weight until all 5 pulls are made successfully and with good form. A single lift to failure can not only be extremely taxing but possibly dangerous as well. If the singles are done at sub-max levels with perhaps the exception of the last attempt, recovery and progression may come easier.

- I will use John Christy's method of progression from his Hardgainer article. That is each set being 1 rep short of failure, and adding 2 lbs a session to the big lifts and 1 lb to the smaller ones. Then testing myself to failure after 3-6 months and recalibrating the poundages accordingly. This will prevent burnout and overtraining, allowing me to lengthen the training cycle substantially.

- I chose the Sumo Deadlift because it feels more natural to me, and I also theorize that the sumo and the power squat would have more carryover to each other than the standard deadlift (since I do both with a wide stance).

 

[Zander1983]

Excellent exercise choices as always, but why only twice a week?

 

[sk*]

Honestly, this looks like a routine I would suggest to someone who hated to lift.

There just isn't enough volume in there, and I don't care how intense you go ... you can train more than 2times a week.

I do like most of the exercise choices though.

-sk

 

[guldukat]

Actually, the 2x weekly thing isn't all that bad of an idea. It's not necessarily ideal but I've gained from such a routine. It just doesn't let you nail certain bodyparts as frequently as I've come to realize is possible, as w/ DC lifting.

Debaser, my main concerns would actually be the following:

1-- you're nailing the lower back hard 2x weekly. Sumos and back extensions one workout, then squats and SLDL in the next would burn me out rather quickly...in my experience, if I didn't space out days in which I really lit the lower back up, I'd overtrain it in a hurry.

2--The Thursday workout has too many brutal exercises to give it your faithful-all. Dips and rows alone take it out of me...doing squats and the dreaded SLDL after that would damn near kill me. (I dunno how Dr. Ken ever did it.)

Again, I'd try to space those out as much as possible. It might be tricky to come up with a real clean split...*scratches chin*

I'm extremely tired at the moment but I wanted to give you some feedback while I was still "awake," if you can call it that. I'll come back and give you some real input when I can think worth a fuck, however long that might be, LOL

 

[Liftbig]

How about some good mornings?

 

[Debaser]

Good mornings have felt awkward to me; SLDLs have felt very natural. When I begin training with Spatts I'm sure I'll understand good morning form much more.

sk you say there isn't enough volume. Progressive load is the key to gaining muscular weight. I've NEVER done more volume than this, and I'm gaining very well. It's twice a week because they're demanding, full-body workouts. You can workout three times a week if you're alternating, or doing push/pull/legs split, but no way on the full-body (at least since I'm training hard and not doing an HST-esque method).

gul-

1. I might agree if I were training to total failure on both days. But since I'm a rep away, I believe 2 full days rest, and then three full days rest after Thursday will be adequate.

2. All of those exercises are brutal, yes. However, this isn't 20 rep squats or 10+ rep SLDLs. I shouldn't be obliterated given the low rep, non-failure training. Dips and rows, while tough, have never been demanding relative to squats and SLDL (which are the last big exercises that day), even while training to failure for me.

 

[b fold the truth]

- The reason I'm choosing singles on the deadlifts is based on Spatt's views. The deadlift is a single lift with no eccentric. It should be trained as such. I've found that the eccentric on a deadlift is awkward for me anyway. HOWEVER, I am STILL building eccentric strength with the addition of Stiff-legged deadlifts on Thursday, which will make for powerful accessory work for the posterior chain, not to mention a movement that feels natural on the way down.

Interesting...I've never looked at it that way.

B True

 

[sk*]

sk you say there isn't enough volume. Progressive load is the key to gaining muscular weight. I've NEVER done more volume than this, and I'm gaining very well. It's twice a week because they're demanding, full-body workouts. You can workout three times a week if you're alternating, or doing push/pull/legs split, but no way on the full-body (at least since I'm training hard and not doing an HST-esque method).

You don't have to explain to me the reasons you chose what you chose. I just don't think it is anywhere close to an ideal training system.

-sk

 

[Debaser]

You don't have to explain to me the reasons you chose what you chose. I just don't think it is anywhere close to an ideal training system.

-sk

Your main reasoning was "it just isn't enough volume."

How many extremely successful low-volume trainers/trainees does it require for you to believe lower volume to be effective? To be honest, I don't think I could be gaining muscle much faster than I am now, unless I were taking steroids.

 

[louden_swain]

Seems interesting.


You are only training twice a week correct?

 

[sk*]

Your main reasoning was "it just isn't enough volume."

How many extremely successful low-volume trainers/trainees does it require for you to believe lower volume to be effective? To be honest, I don't think I could be gaining muscle much faster than I am now, unless I were taking steroids.

I have tried DC's workout and a higher volume one. I feel that a higher volume one is better for myself.

I believe if you are gonna do such a low volume workout, than you should increase the frequency of the workouts as the recovery time is much less. JMHO.

DC's routine seems better planned than 2times a week workout. I believe something like this is only good for the absolute beginner.

-sk

 

[louden_swain]

One or two more workouts wouldn't hurt. . if anything it would keep muscle conditioning up and keep the metabolism at a higher level.

 

[Debaser]

I have tried DC's workout and a higher volume one. I feel that a higher volume one is better for myself.

I believe if you are gonna do such a low volume workout, than you should increase the frequency of the workouts as the recovery time is much less. JMHO.

DC's routine seems better planned than 2times a week workout. I believe something like this is only good for the absolute beginner.

-sk

Frequency does not necessarily mean MORE WORKOUTS. Technically, I'm hitting my body more frequently than DC training, at twice a week rather than 1.5 times a week.

There are many people who train twice a week who aren't exactly beginners. Iron Addict, Realgains, John Christy, Dr. Ken just to name a few out of many.

 

[sk*]

Frequency does not necessarily mean MORE WORKOUTS. Technically, I'm hitting my body more frequently than DC training, at twice a week rather than 1.5 times a week.

There are many people who train twice a week who aren't exactly beginners. Iron Addict, Realgains, John Christy, Dr. Ken just to name a few out of many.

I just don't see how you would need so many days for recovery from something so simple. BTW, you aren't hitting the whole body 2times a week. Like shoulders for example, you hit only once directly.

Also, dc suggests adjusted recovery times based on your own.

-sk

 

[Debaser]

Dips still hit the shoulders pretty hard. I'd say the only thing that isn't really hit twice a week are the pecs, though they still receive minor activation from the overhead press. If I really wanted to I could throw in a chest exercise on Day 2. I don't really think that's necessary; I like separating the planes of motion as I'm doing.

Does "simple" mean easy? How could I possibly train more frequently while retaining any intensity? If you can train again after only 1 days rest following a day of hard squats, SLDLs, as well as rows and dips then you know something I don't. You can't see how I would need "so many days for recovery"? 2 days rest is "so many" following a brutal deadlift day?

 

[sk*]

I think 3-4days is ideal. Maybe more if you don't have a very active lifestyle. Recovery should be adjusted within your lifestyle imo. As long as the workout is around 1hour, there should be no problem keeping intensity.

-sk

 

[Tweakle]

"you can train again after only 1 days rest following a day of hard squats, SLDLs, as well as rows and dips then you know something I don't"

thats why I hate hate hate fullbody routines. why not go for an upper/lower split that would let you train more frequently and more intensly on the exercises you're performing?

 

[louden_swain]

One other option would be to include the M W F option with SA and SU off. . .DC style. . you are gauranteed plenty of rest, plus you can train muscle groups twice a week when you alternate workout A and workout B each week.

 

[slobberknocker]

My main routine for a while was very low volume. 3 days a week, but each workout would only have like 3-5 working sets. Worked pretty well for me. The only way to know is to try it.

 

[Zander1983]

Worked pretty well for me.

Indeed

 

[powerforward]

Your main reasoning was "it just isn't enough volume."

How many extremely successful low-volume trainers/trainees does it require for you to believe lower volume to be effective? To be honest, I don't think I could be gaining muscle much faster than I am now, unless I were taking steroids.

not a flame, but if your training system is that effective, why are you switching it?it seems like your constantly looking for a new routine, don't you think it would be better to keep the same routine until your gains stop?

i hope this doesn't come off as a flame because debaser i think the majority of your posts are well thought out, and i also believe one can make solid gains with less volume.

 

[Debaser]

not a flame, but if your training system is that effective, why are you switching it?it seems like your constantly looking for a new routine, don't you think it would be better to keep the same routine until your gains stop?

i hope this doesn't come off as a flame because debaser i think the majority of your posts are well thought out, and i also believe one can make solid gains with less volume.

I'm not really switching it...just tweaking it. I've followed a pretty similar routine for awhile.

 

[powerforward]

cool, keep us updated.