New Cycle?

[RearNaked]

I am itching to start a new test/tren cycle right now. 5'8, 194, 17%. What I have on hand is:

- test pro 100 - 10ml
- test cyp 200 - 30ml
- tren ace 75 - 20ml
- sust 275 - 10ml
- winstrol 10
- raloxifene 60

- sustain alpha
- phyto test
- trib/6oxo
- cla

Possibly access to Nolva and HCG 4-6 weeks.
Discovered last test cycle gyno prone. 500/wk, no anti-e's.
Never done tren yet, what would a good test:tren ratio be?
Diet is gtg.
What can I add/turf from this?
Winstrol fucks up my joints. Anavar?

I hear tren can fuck up your mind, give you horrible night sweats. Anything you can do to minimize that shit? Thanks bros.

 

[machinehead]

Hi,

What is your target? cutting/bulking?
I guess cutting because the BF%, well test prop is enough, you don't need to take test prop and test cyp together, tren ace you should take 75-100mgs EOD, winstrol 50mgs ED is great cycle for cutting.

you can drop the sust,test cyp, for gyno use arimidex, if not help use letrozole, but letro will kill your sex drive.

Anavar is better than winstrol, but it too much pricey, 40mgs ED of anavar is g2g, for 6 weeks.
I would recommend you to user REAL PCT like tamoxifen not MyoGENX or another supps.

For tren - before bed, eat only protein and fats, no carbs, carbs will cause the night sweats while you will be on tren.

 

[RearNaked]

I thought raloxifene was similar to nolva? Shouldn't take Nolva with tren though? Maybe I should drop the tren, and just do test. I'm pretty sure I have access to letro as well as clomid. Prop @ 50mg eod, Cyp @ 400/wk.

 

[RearNaked]

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[GUARDIAN]

Bro u got mail.

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[RearNaked]

Holy fuck...I think I will leave the tren out of this cycle indefinitely now. I haven't slept at all in 3 nights now. I don't think I should even be posting cycle shit right now. Got some unexpected company on Monday, staying til Sunday, women and small children, lots of them. This sucks. I just tried to get some shuteye, seeing as they are all out of my fucking house at the moment, and I can't fall asleep for some fucked up reason. I feel weird as fuck, I am at the point where the clock ticking on the wall is driving me fucking insane. I am going to snap, or die, I don't know. Just started thinking about cycles last night, cuz everything is pissing me off, and I can't fall asleep. Sorry if I don't make a lot of sense bros. I'll add somemore info, if this thread seems fucked, it's my state of mind, please delete it...again my apologies.

What about this?

1-5 test prop - 50mg eod
1-10 test cyp - 400mg ew
4-10 HCG - 250iu 2x ew

1-4 dbol - 40mg ed? - or,
5-10 anavar - 40mg ed? or neither?

letro on hand. adex on hand.

Need help with PCT. Clomid + Nolva? Going to use Sustain Alpha, Post Cycle + Unleashed.

I'm trying to find more info on this raloxifene shit, but not having a lot of luck. I was advised to run it every day, but at what point in cycle, I do not know. I simply want to bulk again. Only 3rd cycle. First one was years ago, only primo + winny, second was last fall, test + winny w/bad-non existent PCT. Fully recovered now. Thanks, fuck I feel horrible, going to try to sleep again, hopefully it works...check back later.

 

[anadrol-king]

your body fat is too hight to be useing aas this can only lead too gyno problems .

the mucle you do gain will be hidden by your fat....

try snd drop bf to around12% before useing any steroid

 

[GUARDIAN]

1-5 test prop - 50mg eod
1-10 test cyp - 400mg ew
4-10 HCG - 250iu 2x ew

or

1-4 d/bol - 30-40mg ed
1-10 test cyp - 400mg ew
4-10 HCG - 250iu 2x ew

no need to have both dbol & prop to kickstart. either one is sufficient though i am partial to my buddy dbol. he and I go way back

 

[RearNaked]

1-5 test prop - 50mg eod
1-10 test cyp - 400mg ew
4-10 HCG - 250iu 2x ew

or

1-4 d/bol - 30-40mg ed
1-10 test cyp - 400mg ew
4-10 HCG - 250iu 2x ew

no need to have both dbol & prop to kickstart. either one is sufficient though i am partial to my buddy dbol. he and I go way back

Deadly. Thanks a lot bro. Yea, I know my bf is high, I want to sneak this cycle in before I head back to work for the summer, as I will be cutting all summer, last chance for a bulk cycle until likely Oct or Nov. Anyone advise on PCT? What should I have? I am going to see this guy again tonite, he is very hard to talk to, and intimidating as fuck. 6'2, 22" arms, 11% bf. Half way thorough a 4 month cycle. Should know what he's talking about, but I want to do it the proper EF way, this guy is not big on the PCT, which scares me. I just wanna tell him exactly what else I need for my PCT so I can get started. Thanks again bros.

 

[GUARDIAN]

Good luck!

Deadly. Thanks a lot bro. Yea, I know my bf is high, I want to sneak this cycle in before I head back to work for the summer, as I will be cutting all summer, last chance for a bulk cycle until likely Oct or Nov. Anyone advise on PCT? What should I have? I am going to see this guy again tonite, he is very hard to talk to, and intimidating as fuck. 6'2, 22" arms, 11% bf. Half way thorough a 4 month cycle. Should know what he's talking about, but I want to do it the proper EF way, this guy is not big on the PCT, which scares me. I just wanna tell him exactly what else I need for my PCT so I can get started. Thanks again bros.

 

[RearNaked]

I found some more info on this ralox script shit i have. I am hoping Mava reads this shit, appears he knows something about it, as does PP. I am confused about it, some guys are saying they run it standalone or with atd for 10 weeks or more. Thn some use it for PCT for 4 weeks with sustain. Here's what I found, I am going to try to sleep again, then look for more on dosage, and check back in.



Raloxifene (2nd generation SERM) is touted to be very effective with respect to all gyno. It is similar to nolvadex in structure.

while I know Femera - letrozole - has anecdotal buzz, last I searched (about a year ago), the only non-surgical agents that have studies showing reduction of EXISTING gynecomastia are the serms Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and raloxifene. ralox is more effective, but also more expensive and less available.

Raloxifene
Studies have shown that Raloxifene has a better success rate of reducing the size of gynecomastia in men than Nolvadex(1). It is also less hepatoxic (harmful to the liver) than Nolvadex. 60mg is a standard dosage, which is tapered down to a half dose of 30mg for the last 2 weeks of the cycle in order to avoid rebound. Ralox also takes about 3 weeks to start working, therefore the full 10 weeks is nessecary.

Unfortunately it's true about the SERMs creating more receptors. Good thing I only kept the Ralox dosages at 60mg.

But the thing is, once you reduce the size of the gyno with this protocol, and your body returns to normal (homeostasis), the gyno will not grow, even though there are more estrogen receptors present. Remember, gyno only grows when your hormone levels are wacky (and more estrogen is present.) Considering most of us got gyno from either puberty or steroids, we don't have to worry about gyno returning unless you a) do more steroids or b) have an endocrine problem.
Just to note: The reason people go as high as 240mg to STOP gyno from forming with Raloxifene is because RALOX takes a long time to build up in the blood stream, hence the high dosing.

Once the gyno is formed (pubertal or pre steroid induced; like this post is intended for.) theres no reason to go higher than 60mg.

 

[RearNaked]

Just posting this here so its all in one place for myself...def can't sleep now, these fucking kids are driving me nuts!

One of the biggest fears of steroid use is the development of gyno. This is also one thing along with roid rage and shrunken balls and even shrunken penis that most people especially newbies know about when it comes to steroids. If fact these three things are probably the first thing that pops in mind when a newbie/uneducated person thinks of roids. Gyno is caused by estrogen levels that are elevated beyond normal amounts. It can also be caused by elevated progesterone and prolactin levels, but these are usually only responsible when estrogen levels are also high. The individual sensitivity varies greatly, so whether you are prone to gyno or not you won't know till you run your first cycle, even then it might take a few cycles to see how susceptible you are. There are two ways of tackling this problem. One is in estrogen control, the other is estrogen receptor antagonism with a serm.

It appears to me that running a SERM throughout the cycle at a low dose is a good effective way of preventing gyno. Nolva, clomid, toremifene, or raloxifene are SERMs that can be run during cycle to prevent gyno. These are also better choices than running an ai because it will keep estrogen in your system which will keep exerting some beneficial effects such as glycogen synthesis, bone density, and blood lipids. Which should you run? Well I would rule out clomid because it has too many side effects especially the emotional ones, also it can desensitize the testes to LH which is bad. Toremifene is a great SERM, but I believe its purpose is best served in post cycle therapy, and it's pretty expensive to run during a cycle. So we are left with tamoxifen and raloxifene.

Tamoxifen is the preferred SERM to run during a cycle to prevent gyno. It can be run at doses starting at 10mg ED and increasing if any signs of gyno begin to appear. If gyno begins to appear increasing the dose to 60mg ed till the gyno recedes then tapering the dose back down to maybe 20mg Ed should be OK. Once again you can run the nolva the whole cycle which I recommend, this is a newbie guide so this will be your first cycle better to stay safe than sorry and run the nolva 10mg ED form day one. If on a test cycle maybe you can wait till weeks 3-4 when the test starts to kick in or when you start seeing signs of bloat which would indicated that your test and estrogen levels are rising and then begin the SERM.

Raloxifene is a relatively newcomer to the steroid scene. A medical study comparing tamoxifen and raloxifene at reducing pubertal gyno (gyno caused during puberty due to hormonal imbalances) showed that ralox was a good deal more effective at not only in the percentage of subjects it reduced the gyno in, but also in the level of gyno reduction. Ralox seems to be the better choice for a gyno prevention/treatment SERM during cycle. Ralox can also be used for post cycle therapy but the feedback is limited and I would suggest this best serves its purpose in preventing/reducing gyno. The dosage used is still up in the air. I have done some research and have a hard time finding any consistent numbers when it comes to dosage. I would recommend maybe 30mg ED and working your way up if that seems to be ineffective. If gyno symptoms begin to appear it is imperative that you increase the dosage immediately to treat the gyno. The faster you take action to treat the gyno the more likely it is to go away. Wait t long and it may become permanent.

Gyno can also be treated/prevented by using an AI such as arimidex or letro. Letro is the more powerful of the two, but it can take up to two weeks to take full effect so arimidex might be the better choice. If I was to show signs of gyno I would take a dose of perhaps 60-90mg ralox ED along with .5-1mg arimidex ed. The arimidex shouldn't affect the levels of ralox in the blood as letro would do to nolva. Once the gyno resides the arimidex would be decreased to .25mg ed (basically to the lowest dose that is still effective for you) and the ralox back but to a dose higher than was originally used for prevention, so over 30mg ed. The ai's are best used to treat gyno with SERM. If you're looking for just prevention with a AI use the lowest dose possible as to not hinder gains and prevent possible side effects.

Gyno can also be caused by increased levels of progesterone and prolactin. Prolactin will actually cause lactation. These two hormones usually will not cause gyno unless estrogen is also present so in order to treat gyno caused by progesterone and prolactin we must first treat the excess estrogen. That would be done by using the protocol found above, in addition to that we would add some progesterone/prolactin inhibitors. It is difficult to tell whether it is estrogen or progesterone/prolactin that causes the gyno. If your first cycle is test/tren or test/deca you will not know whether the estrogen form the test is causing gyno or the progesterone form the tren/deca is causing the gyno. Therefore it is best to run test alone for a first cycle.

 

[Mavafanculo]

looks like you got it down bro