New cycle, comments please

[Bigredcanecorso]

Hey bro's I am thinking of putting a new cycle together and any comments would be helpful. 500mg enanthate wks 1-10 and deca 400mg wks 1-10
Clomid after last injection, and Nolva on hand for gyno. I am 6'3 228 as for BF% am not really sure I don't have a 6 pack...little stomach though. This will be my 3rd cycle, my last one was 250mg omndren and 200mg deca for 8 weeks clomid pct. Trying to bulk up more and keep gains as much as possible.
Thanks

 

[Apexx]

It's only your third cycle, I don't see the need to double the dose from your last cycle.
Too many people think that is the natural progression when using steroids.....it isn't.
The idea is to use as little as possible and still make good gains. I'd Keep the test at 500mg/wk and drop the deca back down to 200mg/wk. I'd also stretch it out to 12 weeks. I don't think you would be unhappy with the results from this if you keep your calories up and keep your workouts in check.

If you do keep the deca at 400mg/wk make sure you have some dostinex on hand just in case gyno pops up. You won't know if it's from the test or the deca, so you'll have to take the nolv and the dost. If you do decide to lower the deca dosage, I doubt progest. induced gyno would be much of a concern.

 

[Bigredcanecorso]

So keep the test at 500, and deca 200 , anti e's? no clomid just the dos and nolva?

 

[crfpilot14]

yes, use clomid for PCT as well as HCG. i posted on your other thread. looks like i said the same as apexx.

 

[Apexx]

yes run the test at 500mg/wk and the deca to 200mg/wk. Keep both nolv and dost on hand in case of gyno probs. Also, I've recently been converted to a nolv over clomid for pct person. Here's why:
"As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex."

 

[mrplunkey]

Just playing devil's advocate (remember, I'm only mid-way into my second cycle) -- why not take the Deca to something like 300-450/week and keep the Test low-ish (i.e. 250/week)? I'm doing 250 Test/week and 450 Deca/week (along with 50 mg IM winny EoD) and really enjoying it.

Aren't deca gains a little more keepable than test gains? As far as an anti-e, I do 0.5mg of Armidex EoD and my bloat is really minimal (if any).

 

[crfpilot14]

either way is fine mrplunkey. depending on what gear you have...

great info apexx. what are your thoughts on the AIs and HCG during and postcycle?

 

[Apexx]

Just playing devil's advocate (remember, I'm only mid-way into my second cycle) -- why not take the Deca to something like 300-450/week and keep the Test low-ish (i.e. 250/week)? I'm doing 250 Test/week and 450 Deca/week (along with 50 mg IM winny EoD) and really enjoying it.

Aren't deca gains a little more keepable than test gains? As far as an anti-e, I do 0.5mg of Armidex EoD and my bloat is really minimal (if any).

if you are at all susceptible to to decadick, then you would want to keep the test dosage higher than the deca.

 

[Apexx]

either way is fine mrplunkey. depending on what gear you have...

great info apexx. what are your thoughts on the AIs and HCG during and postcycle?

Not sure what you mean by "AI's", but HCG should be used during your cycle or at the end of a cycle in prep for pct. Not as pct. I also feel that it shouldn't be taken without the use of an anti-a or an anit-e so that there would not be a rapid rise in estrogen which could turn into gyno

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

 

[FknKnuckleHd]

Hey bro's I am thinking of putting a new cycle together and any comments would be helpful. 500mg enanthate wks 1-10 and deca 400mg wks 1-10
Clomid after last injection, and Nolva on hand for gyno. I am 6'3 228 as for BF% am not really sure I don't have a 6 pack...little stomach though. This will be my 3rd cycle, my last one was 250mg omndren and 200mg deca for 8 weeks clomid pct. Trying to bulk up more and keep gains as much as possible.
Thanks

That sounds like a decent cycle bro good mg's per wk. The only thing I would say is take the cycle to 12 wks for both the test-e and the deca.

And wait more than to just the last shot before taking the clomid. I always wait 3wks for the test and deca to leave my system(for the most part) before starting the clomid....also take the Nolv for pct, I use HCG as well but thats just me. I'm taking a cycle of Test-E and Deca now too...and some other goodies.

Good luck and keep us informed,
FKH

 

[HardHat87]

I usually wait 2 weeks after last shot to start pct on those compounds.

 

[LVTitan]

listen to apexx on this one brothers, he seems to have it right on the head. keep your test higher than your deca for libido reason. i ran that cycle last time, but i had the deca at 300mg, (was using qv300).. also , fuck clomid, he is so on track with what he said about using hcg/nolva for pct. also , the only thing i would recommend different is to run the test out one week longer than the deca, this made going into recovery much easier for me, since the deca is a longer ester. ie:
week 1-11 deca 200-300mg /week
week 1-12 test 500 mg /week
week 13 hcg 1000iu MWF
week 14 hcg 500iu MWF
week 15-20 nolva 20mg day.
what do you think apexx ?

 

[crfpilot14]

Not sure what you mean by "AI's", but HCG should be used during your cycle or at the end of a cycle in prep for pct. Not as pct. I also feel that it shouldn't be taken without the use of an anti-a or an anit-e so that there would not be a rapid rise in estrogen which could turn into gyno

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

i have read what you posted above. isnt that from William Llewellyns nolva/clomid article? i know i have read it somewhere. i feel that AIs or aromatase inhibitors and HCG should be used in any cycle where aromatization is possible. obviously HCG alone should not be used as PCT but HCG plus nolva and an AI works great at restoring the HPTA and natural test levels. we will see that in the future after more research has been done that our current thinking may be erroneous!

 

[crfpilot14]

you probably cant count on one hand the guys that got decadick from 400mg/wk...let alone with as much at 250mg test/wk. so you will be fine with test 250/deca 400 per wk.

 

[Apexx]

listen to apexx on this one brothers, he seems to have it right on the head. keep your test higher than your deca for libido reason. i ran that cycle last time, but i had the deca at 300mg, (was using qv300).. also , fuck clomid, he is so on track with what he said about using hcg/nolva for pct. also , the only thing i would recommend different is to run the test out one week longer than the deca, this made going into recovery much easier for me, since the deca is a longer ester. ie:
week 1-11 deca 200-300mg /week
week 1-12 test 500 mg /week
week 13 hcg 1000iu MWF
week 14 hcg 500iu MWF
week 15-20 nolva 20mg day.
what do you think apexx ?

I'd run 20mg's of nolv along with the hcg to fight any hcg induced gyno problems. After the 2nd week of hcg (which is really when your pct will start) I would bump up the nolv to 40mg/ed for two weeks, then down to 20mg/ed for the next two weeks.

Did you really mean than you would be taking nolv for 6 weeks?

Don't forget to have some dost or cabergoline on hand just incase.

 

[LVTitan]

I'd run 20mg's of nolv along with the hcg to fight any hcg induced gyno problems. After the 2nd week of hcg (which is really when your pct will start) I would bump up the nolv to 40mg/ed for two weeks, then down to 20mg/ed for the next two weeks.

Did you really mean than you would be taking nolv for 6 weeks?

Don't forget to have some dost or cabergoline on hand just incase.

haha, yeah actually jenetic once told me on a heavy cycle you might have to go 6weeks on nolva. this cycle aint really heavy, but long for sure.
anywho, the more i ponder it, the better i like your idea of running the low dose nolva w/hcg then bumping for the real pct and coming down.
fuck why do you always have to be right ?

 

[Apexx]

haha, yeah actually jenetic once told me on a heavy cycle you might have to go 6weeks on nolva. this cycle aint really heavy, but long for sure.
anywho, the more i ponder it, the better i like your idea of running the low dose nolva w/hcg then bumping for the real pct and coming down.
fuck why do you always have to be right ?

Now, if I can just get my girlfriend to realize that I'm always right, I'll be in
good shape.

I wouldn't even pretend to be on jenetic's level of knowledge when it comes to aas. If he told me to ground dried rabbit turds and shove them in my pee hole to get bigger I would.