Never Ending Cycle

[Loths]

O.K. folks, I got one for you, but it require for us to be realistic and honest... before posting the question... I have read all the side effect of steriods and the benefits of PCT, and the like... I am not a kid, or a novice.. and my usage of anabolic goes beyond muscle (but is a part of i)....

My question deal with the never ending cycle... any body on it? If so, what are the dosages? Do you have a dosage cycle?, what is the overal experience?

I ask because, of the late, I have started using Testo for depression Check Treat:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/l...ybuilding/testosterone-depression-577766.html

and have some concerns on the long term, none stop usage of Testosterone...

Any honest Folks there with some good advice?

 

[dabuffguy]

O.K. folks, I got one for you, but it require for us to be realistic and honest... before posting the question... I have read all the side effect of steriods and the benefits of PCT, and the like... I am not a kid, or a novice.. and my usage of anabolic goes beyond muscle (but is a part of i)....

My question deal with the never ending cycle... any body on it? If so, what are the dosages? Do you have a dosage cycle?, what is the overal experience?

I ask because, of the late, I have started using Testo for depression Check Treat:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/l...ybuilding/testosterone-depression-577766.html

and have some concerns on the long term, none stop usage of Testosterone...

Any honest Folks there with some good advice?

Some people are on test therapy for life. but at a max dose of 100mg constant.

If you are thinking 250mg+ forever, I would not reccomend it if you have a natural HPTA function.

I feel that those that decide to go on HRT unnecesarrily are making a bad choice and will later regret it. If you are smart about it, and keep it at 100mgs, then I'm cool with that. I know of some on here that have self imposed themselves like this. I don't agree with it, but that is their choice. These people also know what they are doing, not just a guy looking to be on roids his whole life so he stays big. It is an extremely big decision, and should not be considered IMO unless your natty test levels are ass anyways.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I think being on test for life is bs. That's my personal opinion. and remember, NO SUCH THING AS A BRIDGE, IN CASE SOMEONE DECIDES TO BRING IT UP.

 

[goku_kakarot77]

I think being on test for life is bs. That's my personal opinion. and remember, NO SUCH THING AS A BRIDGE, IN CASE SOMEONE DECIDES TO BRING IT UP.

i agree its either your on or off

 

[eddymerckx]

i keep reading more and more studies on the impact of test on brain functioning/depression/and a host of others---the problems is none are really long term or the subjects are 70 yo. i would do a much research as possible.


gifted you a week plat to do some searches as i know this issue has beed discussed at length. happy hunting

 

[muscleup]

Numbers vary for everyone...Some people will be in the 600-900 ng/dl level with that doseage, however some will not.

Medicine is a practice and there are no absolutes...Especially concerning Hormone Replacement Therapy. It goes much deeper than what we discuss on the boards.

Im 34 and my Dr. has me on 200mgs per week of Test Cyp and I feel good at that doseage...Not real good on 100mgs.

With my condition however there is extensive damage and I will more than likely have complications in the future.

IMO one who cycles 6-8 months of the year, is really no different than someone who is on HRT. Your body is still suppressed in some way or the other...Supression is another complicated subject, it goes a helluva alot deeper than just the HPTA.

Some people are on test therapy for life. but at a max dose of 100mg constant.

If you are thinking 250mg+ forever, I would not reccomend it if you have a natural HPTA function.

I feel that those that decide to go on HRT unnecesarrily are making a bad choice and will later regret it. If you are smart about it, and keep it at 100mgs, then I'm cool with that. I know of some on here that have self imposed themselves like this. I don't agree with it, but that is their choice. These people also know what they are doing, not just a guy looking to be on roids his whole life so he stays big. It is an extremely big decision, and should not be considered IMO unless your natty test levels are ass anyways.

 

[Loths]

Some people are on test therapy for life. but at a max dose of 100mg constant.

If you are thinking 250mg+ forever, I would not reccomend it if you have a natural HPTA function.

I feel that those that decide to go on HRT unnecesarrily are making a bad choice and will later regret it. If you are smart about it, and keep it at 100mgs, then I'm cool with that. I know of some on here that have self imposed themselves like this. I don't agree with it, but that is their choice. These people also know what they are doing, not just a guy looking to be on roids his whole life so he stays big. It is an extremely big decision, and should not be considered IMO unless your natty test levels are ass anyways.

Thanks Bro...you have some valid points...I am reasearching as much as I can on the topic...so far I have not pass the 250mg per week, with great results... Depression is a serious shit... there could be a brigh day and all is going for you, but you will fell like shit and that things are f-up....I am not trying to justify myself or look for approval... I just want to make sure I do things right... ethics and morals are not my concern... and rather have a greater quality of life than a long and unhappy one!
Thanks for your thoughs.

 

[Loths]

Numbers vary for everyone...Some people will be in the 600-900 ng/dl level with that doseage, however some will not.

Medicine is a practice and there are no absolutes...Especially concerning Hormone Replacement Therapy. It goes much deeper than what we discuss on the boards.

Im 34 and my Dr. has me on 200mgs per week of Test Cyp and I feel good at that doseage...Not real good on 100mgs.

With my condition however there is extensive damage and I will more than likely have complications in the future.

IMO one who cycles 6-8 months of the year, is really no different than someone who is on HRT. Your body is still suppressed in some way or the other...Supression is another complicated subject, it goes a helluva alot deeper than just the HPTA.

I agree with you.... 100 mg does not do the trick for me...

I am trying to find a way to make all this work for me and still have a degree of safety. I am doing regular blood test (one schedule next month), plus the pressure and the prostate (rectum) test. Working out, doing a bit of cardio, keepin drink to one day a week, eating healthy....

I think the blood pressure, test, and the prostate test will help in determining the stress my body is going to, then then I could adjust the dosage...

Any other test I should look in to.

THANKS!

 

[muscleup]

A comprehensive thyroid panel IMO should be done. Most people who weight train as hard as most of us do are suffering from some sort of Adrenal Fatique which the Thyroid takes a blunt of...This in itself will effect Testosterone level a significant amount and IGF-1 production.

Ask for a free T3-T4 test along with a standard thyroind panel.

I agree with you.... 100 mg does not do the trick for me...

I am trying to find a way to make all this work for me and still have a degree of safety. I am doing regular blood test (one schedule next month), plus the pressure and the prostate (rectum) test. Working out, doing a bit of cardio, keepin drink to one day a week, eating healthy....

I think the blood pressure, test, and the prostate test will help in determining the stress my body is going to, then then I could adjust the dosage...

Any other test I should look in to.

THANKS!

 

[Loths]

A comprehensive thyroid panel IMO should be done. Most people who weight train as hard as most of us do are suffering from some sort of Adrenal Fatique which the Thyroid takes a blunt of...This in itself will effect Testosterone level a significant amount and IGF-1 production.

Ask for a free T3-T4 test along with a standard thyroind panel.

Thanks BRO.. I WILL INCLUDE THIS ON THE TEST!

 

[IronmanLV]

There is a lot that must go into that decision. You are on the right track by finding out where you're natural levels are first.

Test will probably help with the depression but is not the cure. If recommended by a qualified MD can help for sure if part of the underlying cause of your depression is triggered by a very low test level. What I call the grumpy old man syndrome, lol.

I am 50 yrs old and have a natural test level of about a 12 y/o girl, lol. The few times I have tried to come off I have been a total train wreck mentally. I am a total asshole when I have tried to go clean even with proper PCT.

I am and have been a competitive bodybuilder for yrs and am always on. Probably the reason my natty levels are in the sewer. Between major cycles I coast on 250 mg/wk of Test E. I have my blood work checked on a quarterly basis and have had no real issues thank heaven.

I have to also agree with a statement you made in an earlier post about quality of life vs quantity. I too would rather live a shorter healtier happier life than a long miserable existence

I sincerely wish you all the best in whatever decision you make my friend it's a tough one.

 

[dabuffguy]

Numbers vary for everyone...Some people will be in the 600-900 ng/dl level with that doseage, however some will not.

Medicine is a practice and there are no absolutes...Especially concerning Hormone Replacement Therapy. It goes much deeper than what we discuss on the boards.

Im 34 and my Dr. has me on 200mgs per week of Test Cyp and I feel good at that doseage...Not real good on 100mgs.

With my condition however there is extensive damage and I will more than likely have complications in the future.

IMO one who cycles 6-8 months of the year, is really no different than someone who is on HRT. Your body is still suppressed in some way or the other...Supression is another complicated subject, it goes a helluva alot deeper than just the HPTA.

I stand corrected. I shouldn't have said 100mg max, as you are right saying there is no absolute dosage. If you need more than that, then by all means go for it. 200mgs is a pretty high constant dosage though.

 

[perryscoon]

Bro are you depressed because you just came off a cycle? If so, thats pretty normal.

If not, have you seen a doc about your depression?

 

[Loths]

There is a lot that must go into that decision. You are on the right track by finding out where you're natural levels are first.

Test will probably help with the depression but is not the cure. If recommended by a qualified MD can help for sure if part of the underlying cause of your depression is triggered by a very low test level. What I call the grumpy old man syndrome, lol.

I am 50 yrs old and have a natural test level of about a 12 y/o girl, lol. The few times I have tried to come off I have been a total train wreck mentally. I am a total asshole when I have tried to go clean even with proper PCT.

I am and have been a competitive bodybuilder for yrs and am always on. Probably the reason my natty levels are in the sewer. Between major cycles I coast on 250 mg/wk of Test E. I have my blood work checked on a quarterly basis and have had no real issues thank heaven.

I have to also agree with a statement you made in an earlier post about quality of life vs quantity. I too would rather live a shorter healtier happier life than a long miserable existence

I sincerely wish you all the best in whatever decision you make my friend it's a tough one.

Thanks Bro... I really appreciate your input.... This is decision I am debating, and hard... Strangersto depression dont know how twisted it can be... i almost literally ruin my marriage and my job.... just buy loosing perspective and react to distorted realities... I have taken the prozac, zolof, wellbutrin, etc, with miserable results... I have gone to therapy for years (wich helps allot), but one thing is understanding your are depressed, and the reasons why, but being unable to snap out of it....

The funny thing... is that I found about TEST on my first cycle with it... I remenber that day since it was yesterday.. that was about 10 years ago... Since then I have cycle on and off...my off periods consisted normally of about a 18 month (allot)... but on this last cycle, and realizing all that I have done to cope with this syndrome.. I just said to my self that I have allways know how to remedy for this...then I saw a study on the web about Test for Depression at a university.. and all the pieces came together...(SEE MY THREAT OF TESTOSTERONE FOR DEPRESSION)....

I am being objective on this regard, and I am keeping a log, doing blood test, and taking a bit more care of my self...I have experimented with different esters, and I do plan to post my results...and I am also planing on have periods of lower dosages and shifting... of different substances...I also, and intervals take HCG, Novalderx and Clomid to keep the factory a 'bit' oil up.

At the end, is a hard decission, but what diference there is between taking the antidepressants (with very similar and nasty side effects) than taking TEST..... and at the end, I rather smile for 30 minutes, than cry for 50 minutes... if you get my drift.

 

[Loths]

A comprehensive thyroid panel IMO should be done. Most people who weight train as hard as most of us do are suffering from some sort of Adrenal Fatique which the Thyroid takes a blunt of...This in itself will effect Testosterone level a significant amount and IGF-1 production.

Ask for a free T3-T4 test along with a standard thyroind panel.

HERE ARE MY BLOOD SCREEN RESULTS.. NOTHING OUT OF RANGE, but a couple on the HIGH SIDE....

08/2007 (Before HRT)
Cholesterol 168 50 - 200 mg/dL
Triglycerides 159 50 - 170 mg/dL
Cholesterol – HDL 38 30 – 60 mg/dL
Cholesterol – LDL 98 60 - 178 mg/dL

05/2008 HRT
05/2008 (HRT)
Cholesterol 191 50 - 200 mg/dL
Triglycerides 87 50 - 170 mg/dL
Cholesterol – HDL 31 30 - 60 mg/dL
Cholesterol – LDL 143 60 - 178 mg/dL

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
08/2007 (Before HRT)
T4 Total 5.9 4.25 - 12.5 ug/dL
T3 Total 154 74.25 - 12.5 ug/dL
T4 Free 0.84 0.79 - 2.19 ng/dL
T3 Uptake N/A
TSH N/A

05/2008 HRT
T4 Total 4.9 4.25 - 12.5 ug/dL
T3 Total 183 75 - 185 ng/dL
T4 Free 0.83 0.79 - 2.19 ng/dL
T3 Uptake N/A
TSH 2.0 0.40 - 5.0 uIU/mL

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
08/2007 (Before HRT)
Estrogen (E2) 16 0 - 56 pg/mL
Testosterone Total 623.0 132 - 1511 ng/ dl
Testosterone Free N/A

05/2008 HRT
Estrogen (E2) 42 0 - 56 pg/mL
Testosterone Total 1280 132 - 1511 ng/ dl
Testosterone Free 60.00 8.8 - 27.0 pg/ml


COMENTS?

 

[DMI]

Numbers vary for everyone...Some people will be in the 600-900 ng/dl level with that doseage, however some will not.

Medicine is a practice and there are no absolutes...Especially concerning Hormone Replacement Therapy. It goes much deeper than what we discuss on the boards.

Im 34 and my Dr. has me on 200mgs per week of Test Cyp and I feel good at that doseage...Not real good on 100mgs.

With my condition however there is extensive damage and I will more than likely have complications in the future.

IMO one who cycles 6-8 months of the year, is really no different than someone who is on HRT. Your body is still suppressed in some way or the other...Supression is another complicated subject, it goes a helluva alot deeper than just the HPTA.

Has your doctor prescribed you an aromatase inhibitor? At 200mg test cyp per week an AI would be needed in most cases. If so, which one and at what dosage?

 

[theblondebomber]

Ive learned alot since coming to EF.One thing is pct.You guys seem to be intelligent in your gear use.I will tell you the truth though.top level bodybuilders and pro's NEVER come off and never do pct.ever!the only thing ive heard anyone use is nolvadex and adex(if they havent had surgery)YET!if you compete this is the way it is.there is no time to come off until your career ends.you take test and anadrol,d-bol in the off season 16 weeks out(almost half a year)then you switch to faster or water based drugs and growth and igf-1.year round.these guys keep getting bigger.i understand someone trying to be safe(or safer)but thats like drinkingjust enough not to get a DUI or have a wreck in my opinion.

 

[dabuffguy]

Ive learned alot since coming to EF.One thing is pct.You guys seem to be intelligent in your gear use.I will tell you the truth though.top level bodybuilders and pro's NEVER come off and never do pct.ever!the only thing ive heard anyone use is nolvadex and adex(if they havent had surgery)YET!if you compete this is the way it is.there is no time to come off until your career ends.you take test and anadrol,d-bol in the off season 16 weeks out(almost half a year)then you switch to faster or water based drugs and growth and igf-1.year round.these guys keep getting bigger.i understand someone trying to be safe(or safer)but thats like drinkingjust enough not to get a DUI or have a wreck in my opinion.

Not everyone here has or aspires to obtain a pro card, therefore making constant gear usage a bad idea. Maintaining natural test production through PCT and "short" cycles, we can maintain a good natural test production and still get the added benefits of gear.

 

[theblondebomber]

Not everyone here has or aspires to obtain a pro card, therefore making constant gear usage a bad idea. Maintaining natural test production through PCT and "short" cycles, we can maintain a good natural test production and still get the added benefits of gear.

oh i agree 100%

 

[muscleup]

Not in my case...Estrogen is fine...Also we go up and down with my doseages to mimick natural testosterone production...Constantly high levels can mess with dopamine.

I'm adviced to do somthing along the lines of 100-125-150-200 and then back down.

However I am prescribed 200mgs each week. We just do this as mimick. Most Dr's are not educated in the subject of Testosterone levels and Brain chemistry.

Has your doctor prescribed you an aromatase inhibitor? At 200mg test cyp per week an AI would be needed in most cases. If so, which one and at what dosage?