need some help with this routine

[Buddy_Christ]

basically just want some suggestions on what to do. i'm done with 5x5. it worked well for me for a few months and i made gains, but i don't feel the frequency of the routine is enough.

3 different days of lifting is what i'm going back to.

Day A - Chest/shoulders
Day B - Back/Arms
Day C - Legs/Abs

the routine will look like this (X = day off)

ABCAB XX CABCA XX and so on. 4 sets of every exercise, upward pyramid of 12, 10, 8, 5-6 reps. i'm going to force myself into doing about 3 second negative, pause, and a good solid drive on the positive. i ran this routine last fall as a newbie lifter and made amazing progress in a few months. in comparison, 5x5 didn't do nearly as much as this routine did.

gym was packed today (semester just started, benches were full, go figure), so i went with a good leg day:

Squats
SLDL
Box Squats - 10x2 instead of 4 sets
Standing calves - 2x15
Seated Calves - 2x15
ABS - 3 sets on decline bench, 25, 18 with 25lbs, 12 with 35lbs

i need to hit my obliques because i never do them. suggestions needed. i'm not too fond of twisting motions or any deep bends to the side because of 2 herniated discs in my mid back, thus the reason i havn't been doing anything for my obliques in the past year. i'll sure as hell give something a try, but if i feel it in my back in a bad way, it's gone from the routine.


for chest/shoulders day, all i'm certain of right now is:

Incline DB
Flat Bench BB
Standing Cable Flies
Shrugs

not sure if i want to do seated OHP on chest/shoulders day or not because i feel it a lot in my lats as well.


back/arms day i'm planning on:

pullups - 2x10
Deads
Neutral Grip pulldowns
side laterals (cable, not db)
tricep pushdowns or skull crushers or both
db preacher curl or incline curl or both
db wrist curls (both ways)


any good suggestions on what to add/remove or if i need to move things from one day to another?

with the rep/set scheme i'm running, my plan is every time i can hit 6 reps on the last set, i'll bump up the weight by 5lbs on all sets the next time. i've done this for the past few months on non 5x5 lifts and i keep making foreward progress, usually every week or every other week...every 3rd week at worst.

help needed and greatly appreciated. thanx.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

shameless bump for suggestions, criticism, different exercises to throw in, suggestions on any to remove....

i might move tris to chest day, depending on how long the chest workout takes. my target time is 1 hour, which is how long it took me to do that leg routine. squats take me a long time because i stretch real good between each set, thus the full hour for that leg workout.

 

[halfaclue]

shameless bump for suggestions, criticism, different exercises to throw in, suggestions on any to remove....

i might move tris to chest day, depending on how long the chest workout takes. my target time is 1 hour, which is how long it took me to do that leg routine. squats take me a long time because i stretch real good between each set, thus the full hour for that leg workout.

I couldn't imagin lifting 5 days in a row. The routines look good but what if you did ABXCABX.
I personally do not even lift 3 days in a row if I can avoid it.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

I couldn't imagin lifting 5 days in a row. The routines look good but what if you did ABXCABX.
I personally do not even lift 3 days in a row if I can avoid it.

i can't hit the gym on the weekends, thus the 2 days off in a row. i did 5x a week last fall and i was fine as far as recovery times went. plus it's a bit lower volume/higher frequency and my body responded well the last time, thus the reason i want to do it again.

 

[halfaclue]

i can't hit the gym on the weekends, thus the 2 days off in a row. i did 5x a week last fall and i was fine as far as recovery times went. plus it's a bit lower volume/higher frequency and my body responded well the last time, thus the reason i want to do it again.

If it is working for you run it...you might want to throw in incline DB flies as well...just an after thought.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

If it is working for you run it...you might want to throw in incline DB flies as well...just an after thought.

i've tried db flies and db side laterals before and it doesn't go over too well with my back. i've had to change up to use cables instead. sucks, but at least i can still use cables.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i copied this to C&C cause no one ever goes to the Training forum anymore.

 

[biteme]

You tryin' to grow? The heavy duty method worked best for me, now I can no longer lift heavy, heavy weights because of injuries. I still stick with low # of total sets and just do more reps to failure or near failure. Still growing.

 

[Dial_tone]

I need to change my routine around again; twice per week training seems like overtraining to me now. I think i'm going to start alternating lifting and cardio days then rest whenever I need a break.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I don't like workout b after workout a back to back. Your triceps are not goign to be properly recovered in 24hours after doing presses for chest and shoulders to properly work them on arm day.

You need to add some barbell curls or at least standing dumbell curls to your bicep routine, but I am a BIG fan of incline curls. They burn like nothing else, if done correctly. Add some type of hammer curls (one arm cable hammer curls give excellent stimulation) as well.

On your back, teh deadlifts will help alot, however you do not do them heavy enough yet with your recovering back. You need something to add back thickness. I recomend one arm dumbell curls. They will yield the stimulation you are missing in yoru routine, but allow you to support your lower back which you might be overworking.

Drop the laterals on your back and arm day (workout B). You just did shoulders on workout A.

 

[BileStew]

She's cheating on you.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

You tryin' to grow? The heavy duty method worked best for me, now I can no longer lift heavy, heavy weights because of injuries. I still stick with low # of total sets and just do more reps to failure or near failure. Still growing.

yes, i'm trying to grow.

5x5 worked to give me some added strength for a while, but all summer wasn't doing very much for me. the 3 day split routine, however, did a LOT for me when i ran it from September to early December last year as a newbie lifter.

3 day split - arms went from 13 1/4" to 14 1/2"
5x5 (Janurary to now) - arms went from 14 1/2" to just over 15" while on creatine. left arm is 15", right arm is 14 3/4" (WTF is up with that?!?!)

i have other measurements saved somewhere else but i can't find them at the moment. but see the difference? yeah, ok, i was a newbie and i guess newbs grow faster, but come on....twice as long on 5x5 and didn't grow even half as much? this sealed my decision to go back to what i ran before that worked quite well.

so anyway, i'm looking for suggestions on the exercises i'm doing. do i have them all in the right places (i'm pretty close), any alternative exercises i could do, basically a critique of what i'm planning. i still don't know where to put seated OHP, and i don't even think i'm going to do it for a while. i have an AC strain in my left shoulder and OHP wasn't helping matters. i did, however, do chest today and some shoulder shrugs and my shoulder felt fine. last month it was hurting like hell though.

plus i'm focusing on a 2-3 second negative on all lifts where it's applicable. this kicked my ass today on the bench. incline db wasn't bad at all. then i moved on to flat bench BB. my 3rd set i loaded 165 and was going to do 8 reps. i can do this weight for that many reps no problem, so i figured i'd be ok with it with a slower pace. lowered the bar for rep 7 and all of the sudden i knew i was f'ed. i didn't have a spotter because i figured i'd be ok on this set. luckily the bench has a small set of posts halfway up the uprights and i got the bar to there. gotta remember i can't lift quite as much when putting more emphasis on the negative portion of the lift.

 

[Dial_tone]

I found the 5x5 very successful for gaining strength, but it's hard to bring up lagging bodyparts with so few sets. I'm trying to focus on additional shoulder width and upper chest right now.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

I don't like workout b after workout a back to back. Your triceps are not goign to be properly recovered in 24hours after doing presses for chest and shoulders to properly work them on arm day.

i was thinking the same thing about the triceps and thought about doing chest/tris one day and back/shoulders the next. i did chest/shoulders one day and back/arms the next day last fall without a problem. however, the weights were lighter (but heavy for me at the time).

You need to add some barbell curls or at least standing dumbell curls to your bicep routine, but I am a BIG fan of incline curls. They burn like nothing else, if done correctly. Add some type of hammer curls (one arm cable hammer curls give excellent stimulation) as well.

me + BB curls = no. i can handle it for a few weeks, but once it starts getting heavy, it starts to tear up my elbows and forearms. i've been though this twice already and recovered both times. straight bar, EZ curl bar, doesn't matter, they both do it to me.

i was going to do either incline curls or db preacher curls, or quite possibly do both. i'm leaning more towards doing both and i should be just fine. the db preacher curls are nice because i can do one arm at a time and if i begin to hit failure, i can assist with the other hand. plus there's the BB curl issue that i just don't want to deal with.

On your back, teh deadlifts will help alot, however you do not do them heavy enough yet with your recovering back. You need something to add back thickness.

you kinda lost me there. my back problems are mid, not lower, so i can deadlift and squat to my heart's content without problem. my lower back is actually getting quite a bit firmer too. i'm starting to feel the beginning of pipes running alongside my spine. granted, they're small, but they're there, and growing

I recomend one arm dumbell curls. They will yield the stimulation you are missing in yoru routine, but allow you to support your lower back which you might be overworking.

can't say i agree with you more on giving the lower back lots of work. all summer, i would box squat Monday, deadlift Tuesday, and ATF squat on Wednesday. that was a lot to do 3 days in a row, but i wouldn't do anything lower back again til Monday (i had one screwed up routine and schedule). as far as doing deadlifts one day and squats the next, i'm fine with that, because then my lower back gets a break the following day.

plus with the rep/set scheme i'm going to do, the last 2 sets are really the only heavy work sets. i can make the first 2 sets burn just by going slow, but they border between being work sets and warm up sets. doing 5x5 deads one day and 5x5 squats the next was a lot for my back. knocking everything down like i am now, my recovery on lower back should be no problem, and i didn't have much of a problem this past summer with recovery on lower back doing 5x5.

to be quite honest about all the back work, my whole back feels better when i'm working it a lot as opposed to minimal work. sure, i may get sore, but back soreness is a picnic compared to back pain.

Drop the laterals on your back and arm day (workout B). You just did shoulders on workout A.

now this is where i run into the tricky part and where i probably need the most help....shoulders. i always feel incline bench in my front delts, thus the reason i wanted to put shoulders on chest day instead of the following day. i go very deep with incline dbs though, thus the reason i feel it so much in the front delts.

i do my side laterals with cables because dbs put a pull on the center of my back and that's just not a good idea for me. as long as i go slow, i feel a good solid burn in my lats on the way back down, so i would think that i'd want the side lats on back day because of that.

so move db shrugs and cable side lats to back day then? if i do that, i'll have chest/tris, back/shoulders/bis/forearms, legs/abs. routine will look like this if i do it that way:

all exercises done in upward pyramid of 12, 10, 8, 6 unless otherwise noted

Chest/Tris
Incline db
Flat bench
Standing Cable Flies
Dips - 2 sets to Failure
Skull Crushers or Tricep Extensions (either or, not sure which yet)
Tricep pushdown

Back/Shoulders/Bis/Forearms
Deadlifts
Pullups - 2 sets to Failure
Shrugs
Neutral Grip Pulldowns
Side Laterals
Incline Curl
Preacher Curl
Wrist Curls

Legs/Abs
Squats
SLDL
Box Squats - 10x2
Standing calves - 2x15
Seated Calves - 2x15
Decline Situps - weighted, high reps

 

[biteme]

I work every single muscle in my body. I only work each bodypart directly once a week. I never do more than 3 sets of an exercise and usually just 2. Seems to work pretty good. Something else might work better, but I don't know what. High volumn training, whenever I tried it in the past, was not for me. Occasionally I will do a lot of sets, change things up a bit, just to confuse my body.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

ok, i'm now really confused as far as what to do. it's the whole shoulder thing again.

Tuesday i did

incline db
flat bench
standing cable flies
db shrugs

and i think that was it. there might've been something else and i just can't remember. i don't have anything written down yet, so that's why.

today i did

pullups
deads
neutral grip pulldowns
incline curl
db preacher curl
wrist curls

here's the problem....my front delts and the part of the pec muscle that connects in the shoulder area were already sore from my chest/shoulders workout, and today my shoulders were absolutely fried from the get go. i know the shrugs hit my delts, but the incline bench really nailed them as well. i know because i could feel it during incline bench and it carried over to flat bench.

this soreness affected my lifts today. yes, i'm coming off a week and a half off and i'm too stupid/macho/think i'm tough enough to back off too much on what weights i'm using. i konw that's contributing to this, but what i'm worried about is that it's going to continue to affect my lifts for a long time to come.

any more ideas on how to tweak this around so my shoulders aren't getting nailed 2 days in a row and affecting my 2nd day of lifting? i need to hit everything twice a week directly, pretty much as soon as it's recovered, thus the reason i'm back on this routine. hitting everything once a week directly and then again indirectly just doesn't work that well for me in terms of growth.

help out C&C dudes.

BBF, you've been a great help so far...can you tweak this any further for me?


oh, i did curls today for the first time in a month and a half. omfg do my bis hurt. i didn't even go as heavy as i have in the past and i'm sore as hell. in the spring i had worked up to 35x6 incline curl as my 4th set (after 20x12, 25x10, 30x8), but today i only managed 3 sets of incline and db preacher, 15x12, 20x10, 25x6 for both incline and preacher. i was actually embarassed. now that i've admitted it here, i'm going to go cry

please don't flame me

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Crak, here is what I would try on this split. Take delts out of workout B. With all of those other presses in workout A your tri's a bit too fatigued for more presses for delts. Instead add in a few sets of dumbell upright rows. Give them a try sometime...you will like. I often times do incline work and weighted dips before doing them. See if they bother your back at all.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

so set up chest/shoulders like this then

incline db
flat bench
side laterals (using cable)
standing cable flies
dips
shrugs
skull crushers or tricep pressdowns or both


back/arms workout would be

Pullups
Deads
db upright rows (or how about seated cable rows? i know i can handle them)
incline curls
db preacher curls
wrist curls

does that look like it will keep shoulders separate from back day?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

so set up chest/shoulders like this then

incline db
flat bench
side laterals (using cable)
standing cable flies
dips
shrugs
skull crushers or tricep pressdowns or both


back/arms workout would be

Pullups
Deads
db upright rows (or how about seated cable rows? i know i can handle them)
incline curls
db preacher curls
wrist curls

does that look like it will keep shoulders separate from back day?

No, most the dumbell upright rows to your shoulder day, they are a shoulder movements. Do them before laterals.