Need some direction please

[GottaGetIt]

Hi all.
I'm new here (first post) please be gentle. I've been checking
out the site, particularly the forums. Loads of education to
be had.
A little background first and then some basic blood results.
I'm 43. Divorced 18 months. Kids.
I have lifted off and on along
with bicycling and other activities for the last 20 years. I'd
probably say more off than on. I got hit by a van while
riding my bicycle a year ago and will be having surgery on
my hip (torn labrum and some impingement issues) in 3
weeks.
I've been on AD Meds for a few years with very little positive
change. I currently take some BP med for slightly elevated BP.
My diet fluctuates but over the last couple of years is way
better than it ever has been, though I did drink alchohol regularly
until recently. Trying to live clean.
I am overweight (5'10" 240#) and seem to have basic signs of gynomastia
(always have - since youth).

My symptoms are:
1. Depression
2. Lack of libido
3. Increased belly fat
4. NO interest in anything really
5. Faulty thought process (I used to be somewhat intelligent)
6. No energy - ready for bed by 8:00pm (dinner or not)

I went to my Doc because I'd like to be off the AD Meds and
have been reading that my symptoms are possibly related
to low test/hormone issues. Not looking for a magic bullet
necessarily but would like to feel like life is worth the effort.

Blood test says:
Test 604 ng/dl 262-1593
TSH, Ultrasensitive 3.347 uIU/ml 0.350-5.500
Cortisol 17.9 ug/dl 4.3-22.4

Unfortunately thats all it says. I guess he only wanted the basics.

Any directives? Thanks.

 

[thelion2005]

Hi all.
I'm new here (first post) please be gentle. I've been checking
out the site, particularly the forums. Loads of education to
be had.
A little background first and then some basic blood results.
I'm 43. Divorced 18 months. Kids.
I have lifted off and on along
with bicycling and other activities for the last 20 years. I'd
probably say more off than on. I got hit by a van while
riding my bicycle a year ago and will be having surgery on
my hip (torn labrum and some impingement issues) in 3
weeks.
I've been on AD Meds for a few years with very little positive
change. I currently take some BP med for slightly elevated BP.
My diet fluctuates but over the last couple of years is way
better than it ever has been, though I did drink alchohol regularly
until recently. Trying to live clean.
I am overweight (5'10" 240#) and seem to have basic signs of gynomastia
(always have - since youth).

My symptoms are:
1. Depression
2. Lack of libido
3. Increased belly fat
4. NO interest in anything really
5. Faulty thought process (I used to be somewhat intelligent)
6. No energy - ready for bed by 8:00pm (dinner or not)

I went to my Doc because I'd like to be off the AD Meds and
have been reading that my symptoms are possibly related
to low test/hormone issues. Not looking for a magic bullet
necessarily but would like to feel like life is worth the effort.

Blood test says:
Test 604 ng/dl 262-1593
TSH, Ultrasensitive 3.347 uIU/ml 0.350-5.500
Cortisol 17.9 ug/dl 4.3-22.4

Unfortunately thats all it says. I guess he only wanted the basics.

Any directives? Thanks.

This is easy.
You need to commit to a full HRT plan that includes a very low sugar/flour diet, a regular full exercise program, and some low dosage testo/hgh.

The diet is very important to have you shed the fat and tune up your internal system. Think ... South Beach.

The exercise will tone and build the muscle. Combine weight training and biking. Make sure you recover with sleep.

The hormones will give your system the push it needs.

THe results will be dramatic and help you heal.

 

[GottaGetIt]

This is easy.
You need to commit to a full HRT plan that includes a very low sugar/flour diet, a regular full exercise program, and some low dosage testo/human growth hormone - somatropin - .

The diet is very important to have you shed the fat and tune up your internal system. Think ... South Beach.

The exercise will tone and build the muscle. Combine weight training and biking. Make sure you recover with sleep.

The hormones will give your system the push it needs.

THe results will be dramatic and help you heal.

Nice! Thanks for the reply.
Low sugar/flour would take some work but doable.
Regular exercise plan already on the agenda but limited at this point
until after the surgery.
I'll have to look into South Beach...
Dramatic and healing are both things I desire.
When you suggest low dosage hormones what does that look like?
Thanks again.

 

[GottaGetIt]

Saw the Doc today and he stands by the "firmly withing standard range" thinking about my Test score of 604 in a 262-1593 range (the lab they use).
I clarified my position and symptoms and he stated that there are no substantiated results that prove Test is beneficial more than harmful when in normal range. He says he "unwilling to experiment" and there must be other reasons for my depression, non existent libido et al.
He did state that when the antidepressents that I quit taking a couple weeks ago are out of my system (in another month) he'd be willing to do a Free Test screen and reevaluate my BP med. (already a low dosage)
What next? Any wisdom and experience? I'm tempted to ask to see a urologist if there's any chance that may help.
I'm not hell bent on being on roids. What I want is a better quality of life and to feel like my normal (manly) self.

 

[eddymerckx]

d bol for a week, then stop and get retested by a diff doc.

 

[GottaGetIt]

d bol for a week, then stop and get retested by a diff doc.

Thanks for the input. I'm a total newb to hormonal/aas stuff. Is d bol easily obtained?
Thanks.

 

[nzrodney]

d bol for a week, then stop and get retested by a diff doc.

I'm sorry Eddy, but this is one time I have to strongly disagree with you. You are just suggesting the easy way to get certified low test levels for HRT. I'd rather agree with thelion2005 on sugar & flour products. Get these out of your diet. They are the cause of most Western Diet & health related problems. Start up a good intense resistance & cardio program. I am pleased that his Doc is going to wait to get the AD's clear then rescreen Free Test. Bioavailable test, although hard to accurately measure, is a far better way to look at testosterone levels available at the receptors as most test in circulation is bound to proteins & SHBG. Only about 2-5% is free & can be bound to ARs & effect tissue growth. Then there is still possible prolactin issues that may need to be addressed. I dont believe Gottagetit should be steared towards a HRT program until all these other issues are dealt with.

 

[Tatyana]

I can't find the original astracts, but I came across this in the last few days

1. Anti-depressants can increase SHBG, therefore lowering natural test. I would go off them and see what happens

2. Oestrogen (related to your gyno) binds some of the thyroid hormones, so while your TSH is normal, your free T3 and T4 may not be as effective.

Higher fat = more oestrogen

This is the issue with anti-D's, they just don't work on some people. This is the situation with most drugs, just down to biochemical individuality.

It is something that the pharma companies do not like to reveal in any of their clinical studies.

It is only recently that there have been directives that they release ALL the results from clinical trials, including adverse events, they didn't do this previously.

They are not advised as the first method of dealing with mild to moderate depression in the UK anymore.

St. John's wort at 1500 mg/day is just as effective as any anti-depressants, with far fewer side effects, and I probably could find the 6 studies that have demonstrated this. (God bless the Germans and their hippy precise tendencies)

This is my concern, due to all the advertising of drugs directly to the population in the US, far too many of you are all over-medicated and think that drugs are the answer, when a change in your diet and getting regular exercise may be a far superiour solution.

It is just that changes in lifestyle require a bit more effort on the part of the individual, not as easy as taking a pill or a jab, however, the long-term impact of lifestyle changes, goes without saying, far superiour than drugs.

You have just gone through some of the most hideous life experiences that rate very high on the stress scale, divorce, road traffic accident (I bet there is more but that is all you are telling us), and you are soon to undergo surgery.

None of that is a pleasant thing, and your cortisol levels are a wee bit higher and reflecting that. When did you have your bloods taken BTW? Were you fasted?

What you are experiencing is a normal response to everything that has gone on, it is referred to as a 'reactive depression'.

Depression is never taken all that seriously, people think it is 'all in your head' and just to 'snap out of it' but it does affect most people at some time in their life and has some pretty significant impact on people's quality of life.


In addition to getting more exercise, changes in diet (make sure you are eating healthy fats, especially fish oils), I would also see if you can find a counsellor to have someone to talk to, cognitive behaviour therapy is often really useful in dealing with some of the negative thought processes with depression.

 

[GottaGetIt]

I'm sorry Eddy, but this is one time I have to strongly disagree with you. You are just suggesting the easy way to get certified low test levels for HRT. I'd rather agree with thelion2005 on sugar & flour products. Get these out of your diet. They are the cause of most Western Diet & health related problems. Start up a good intense resistance & cardio program. I am pleased that his Doc is going to wait to get the AD's clear then rescreen Free Test. Bioavailable test, although hard to accurately measure, is a far better way to look at testosterone levels available at the receptors as most test in circulation is bound to proteins & sex hormone binding globulin . Only about 2-5% is free & can be bound to ARs & effect tissue growth. Then there is still possible prolactin issues that may need to be addressed. I dont believe Gottagetit should be steared towards a HRT program until all these other issues are dealt with.

Thanks.

 

[GottaGetIt]

I can't find the original astracts, but I came across this in the last few days

1. Anti-depressants can increase sex hormone binding globulin , therefore lowering natural test. I would go off them and see what happens

2. Oestrogen (related to your gynecomastia) binds some of the thyroid hormones, so while your TSH is normal, your free T3 and T4 may not be as effective.

Higher fat = more oestrogen

This is the issue with anti-D's, they just don't work on some people. This is the situation with most drugs, just down to biochemical individuality.

It is something that the pharma companies do not like to reveal in any of their clinical studies.

It is only recently that there have been directives that they release ALL the results from clinical trials, including adverse events, they didn't do this previously.

They are not advised as the first method of dealing with mild to moderate depression in the UK anymore.

St. John's wort at 1500 mg/day is just as effective as any anti-depressants, with far fewer side effects, and I probably could find the 6 studies that have demonstrated this. (God bless the Germans and their hippy precise tendencies)

This is my concern, due to all the advertising of drugs directly to the population in the US, far too many of you are all over-medicated and think that drugs are the answer, when a change in your diet and getting regular exercise may be a far superiour solution.

It is just that changes in lifestyle require a bit more effort on the part of the individual, not as easy as taking a pill or a jab, however, the long-term impact of lifestyle changes, goes without saying, far superiour than drugs.

You have just gone through some of the most hideous life experiences that rate very high on the stress scale, divorce, road traffic accident (I bet there is more but that is all you are telling us), and you are soon to undergo surgery.

None of that is a pleasant thing, and your cortisol levels are a wee bit higher and reflecting that. When did you have your bloods taken BTW? Were you fasted?

What you are experiencing is a normal response to everything that has gone on, it is referred to as a 'reactive depression'.

Depression is never taken all that seriously, people think it is 'all in your head' and just to 'snap out of it' but it does affect most people at some time in their life and has some pretty significant impact on people's quality of life.


In addition to getting more exercise, changes in diet (make sure you are eating healthy fats, especially fish oils), I would also see if you can find a counsellor to have someone to talk to, cognitive behaviour therapy is often really useful in dealing with some of the negative thought processes with depression.

There have been a lot of "events" the last couple of years. I guess in a sense my interest in HRT came about by seeing my list of issues and how they related to low Test/hormonal imbalance. My internet searches led me to HRT for my list of symptoms.

I imagine as I continue to work on individual things like diet and exercise some issues may/will resolve themselves.

I guess I've looked at HRT as a kickstart in a sense to resolving some of them. Not necessarily a magic pill kind of resolution but an attempt to try an avenue not yet traveled (for me). No stone left unturned.

The depression wasn't helped by AD's much and (I've tested 3 varieties) some made it worse. One of the last things I needed was to lose sexual function on top of everything else. I didn't want to live at that point. So I changed to the last med (Wellbutrin).
I hate them. They don't seem to make a difference and I'm embarassed/humiliated enough I tell no one I take them.

I did talk to someone while I was going through the divorce. I didn't like the whole process or the therapist. It's difficult to describe.

The blood test were a few weeks ago and I was fasting for them.

At my Doctor appt. yesterday (pre OP - for the surgery) all my vitals were great, my weight was up a couple pounds, my height was lower (I think she must have mis-measured/mis-read) so I'll continue to research and pursue improvement in those areas I have the power to personally.
Any HRT will wait until my next round of blood tests and if my list hasn't changed I may pursue an anti aging clinics input.

Thanks for your reply.