Need help getting into ketosis...

[kaoz&zen]

I didn't know that you need to limit protein intake along w/ carbs to get into ketosis. Today was my first day on ketosis diet, so I need help figuring if it will ever work.

2 eggs in morning: 9g fat, 2g of carbs, 12g of protein
Protein shake in water: 3g fat, 4g of carbs, 19g protein
2 eggs for lunch: 9g fat, 2g carb, 12g protein
1 chicken breast after the eggs: 1.5g fat, 0 carbs, 26g protein
1 chicken breast at night: 1.5g fat, 0 carbs, 26g protein

Total: 24g fat, 8g carbs, 95g protein

Simple diet, yes, but it's practically the same diet that I've been on for a while except I've cut out BBQ sauce on the chicken and I now drink nothing but water (1 gal a day). I haven't started cardio yet, but I'm going to start running about 2 miles a day along with my normal workout routine.

BTW: This is kaoz&zen's roomate. If this is a stupid question, don't blame him for it. He's just not around to answer it for me...

 

[Scotty]

k&z

You need a TON more fat in your diet to get into ketosis. 80% fat and 20% protein should get you into ketosis in about 2 days, give or take.

Try mixing protein powder with heavy whipping cream. It's rather tasty, but you have to watch the saturated fat.

Or, when you make your shake with water and protein powder, try dumping in a few tablespoons of flax seed oil or olive oil. These are low in saturated fat and will definitely help to get/keep you in ketosis.

Remember, you have to ingest more fat than anything. Cheese is good, flax/olive oil, whipping cream. Just watch the saturated fat.

I am able to eat a little broccoli for fiber and still remain in ketosis.

 

[kaoz&zen]

So the only thing keeping me from ketosis is the fat? What about the amount of protein I'm getting, will that hurt me?

 

[tap0621]

According to my math, (which is a scary thing) that's less than 650 calories a day! What are you trying to accomplish? Scotty's answer was not incorrect, I think he just missed the calorie thing. Increase your intake of fat and protein or your gonna lose all of your muscle mass. I sometimes have a hard time getting into ketosis, but once there can stay pretty well. What I am getting at is maybe you need to cut ALL carbs, (nearly impossible) for 48 hours, and then ease it back up. Are you using ketosticks to measure it? If not they are little test strips availible in drug stores for diabetics that you piss on to see if you are indeed in ketosis. You may be there and not know it. Good Luck.

 

[enrage]

ALA will help speed up the process of getting into ketosis. do a search and read some past threads on it. There are a ton of good threads at the Anabolic b0ard.

 

[Bobarell]

I am at 170 pounds right now and am pretty much constantly in in Ketosis. I take in about 250g pro/30g carbs/<100g fat. I do a refeed once a week and if I take ALA before every meal I am back into Ketosis within 1 day.


We don't know your stats so it is hard to determine what you need, but your cals look way too low to accomplish anything but lose weight(Fat and muscle). It is very unhealthy to take in that few cals if you are over 75 pounds and I seem to think that you are.

Read the boards and you will see what you need to do to lose that fat while maintaining muscle.

 

[TeriusGrey]

<--same person, just remembered I had an account.

I'm just under 160 pounds. Don't know my body fat percentage, but I would guess around 20%, maybe lower. I used to be flabby as hell and very unmuscular, but I've been working out every day for the past 8 weeks while on a cycle designed by kaoz&zen (250mg cyp/week, 50mg winny a day), and I've basically just been eating whatever I see. I'm in a lot better shape, but I didn't really lose much fat (not that I expected to on a cycle). What should I increase in my diet. I could easily eat twice as much chicken if I need more protein (kaoz makes some really nice chicken sans carbs). Any recommendations?

 

[Bobarell]

MORE FAT!!!!!!

A lot of people eat at least a pound of red meat a day. I myself stick to 1/2 pound and lots of eggs.chicken and tuna for all the rest of my meals.

Throw in a couple more eggs might do wonders as well. I don't see how you are not starving on that few cals.

i really don't think you should be cycling and trying to burn fat at the same time. I think you need to ask other on the board because I have never taken anything other than the basic protein, ALA and ECA's.

I would wait until your cycle is over to burn that fat off though.

 

[TeriusGrey]

I'm finished with the test, just going to finish up the winny that I have left that I didn't take while I was out of town (about 2 weeks worth). I can eat more eggs or chicken if that would help. I'll also try mixing whipped cream in the protein shake if that will help. Any exact numbers of what I should increase my fat/carb/protein to? I wouldn't exactly say I'm starving, but I can get pretty hungry. Are hamburgers decently healthy so long as I don't eat bread with it?

 

[Bobarell]

I am not an expert, but for a keto diet hamburgers without the bun is pretty good.

I think that at 160 you should be right below where I am at. It is about 2000cals which is supposed to be pretty good for a keto diet and for keeping muscle. I would go for around 200g pro/30g carbs/80g fat if you really want to go low. That would be around 1650cals. Those are some nice round numbers, but I still think you need more cals than that. Say atleast 1800.....

 

[tap0621]

Here's an idea for you. You seem to have trouble with what and how much to eat. Go to any bookstore and buy Dr. Atkins' diet book. It's very popular and easy to find. Start with chapter one and follow it to the letter. It's not exactly what you would call a body-building book, but it will get you a lot closer to what you are looking for than the guessing game that you are playing. It always helps me to have things written down in black and white. It starts with an "induction phase" for a week or two to get you into ketosis and has sample diets layed out to keep you there. If you never heard of him, Dr. Atkins basically invented (or at least perfected) the low carb diet many, many years ago.

 

[kaoz&zen]

Yeah, thought about getting the book but I decided to go the internet route.


OK, I figure I could get about 8 servings of flax oil a day (this stuff is expensive and nasty as hell, don't think I can do much more), which will give me ~36g fat more, no added carbs or protein. I also have the peanut butter (couldn't find any sans carbs, does it exist?) that will give me 16g of fat per serving, 6g of carbs, and 8 of protein. I also tross a little Cool Whip into that protein shake with 2 servings of the flax oil, which adds a little fat and carbs but helps with the now terrible taste. Also picked up some hamburger patties with 21g fat and 20g protein. How centered around fat should I be? Should I just live off of peanut butter and flax oil (yum ) and cut out protein until ketosis actually occurs, or should I add these new products to modify the original diet (keeping a high protein intake)? This ketosis shit is pissing me off, having to eat a less healthy diet to lose significantly more weight...

 

[Toshendin]

Um, what's Ketosis, exactly, and why's it a good thing to be in?

lol, sorry if that sounds stupid.

 

[Bobarell]

Goto the Atkins website linked above and read about it.

Also, use the little search button at the top of the screen and you will find out everything that you need to know about it.

 

[kaoz&zen]

OK, I think I'm getting somewhere. Althoug I appreciate the help that the few of you gave me, I got almost 30 response at another site (don't know if you all allow us to mention other boards, I know some don't allow sources to be mentioned). I've gotten similar responses about needing a LOT more fat, but protein is kind of in question as is whether I should keep myself under 20g carbs a day or 0g as some say. I'll just paste my most recent post over at the other board:

"Ok, it seems that ketosis mimics starving yourself, and that the big problem with it is maintaining muscle mass. It's a long story, but I've got this weird mental thing from when I was a kid that's led to me having a very limited diet (no veggies, only meats I eat are chicken and burgers), so even though I am capable of even pretty healthily, some of the listed ketosis diets won't work for me.

So how about I do this to ENTER INTO ketosis:
6 eggs: 27g fat, 36g protein, 6g carbs
8 tbsp of butter (nasty): 56g fat, 0 protein, 0 carbs
5 tbsp of flax oil (actually nastier than pure butter): 22.5g fat
-for a total of ~105g fat, 36g protein, 6g carbs

If I am able to increase the protein intake once I enter ketosis, I'm not particularly worried about losing muscle since entering (from what I've read) takes a MAX of 4 days, usually 2. I must say that this Atkins guy must be both incredibly smart and incredibly drugged up to figure out a diet that is this unhealthy, yet so efficient.

Once (IF!) I get into ketosis, I'll continue the post about a healthy, muscle retaining diet to continue into ketosis until I get to the physical shape that I desire. After that, I won't particularly mind getting out of ketosis and just eating healthily and continue excercising to stay in shape.

Once again, THANKS A LOT FOR THE HELP! I will probably try that ALA stuff (with the advice of the real Kaoz), and I will continue to drink at least a gallon of water a day."

 

[plornive]

The absolute best and most accurate book on ketgenic diets is "The Ketogenic Diet", by Lyle McDonald. http://www.theketogenicdiet.com

 

[kaoz&zen]

Yeah, I know that a book will help me most, but right now I'm fighting for both a sufficient grade in Math (WAY WAY WAY more to this grade than just GPA effect) as well as fora a female that I'm crazy about. I really don't have time to read a lot of info JUST to get into this diet, I should be spending that time following the diet and excercising/working out.

Let's make this simple. Here is the content variety of my available foods. Please, someone, give me a definitive answer on what will help me lose some weight (will the diet I originally posted help me lose weight while maintaining muscle?):

high fat only- butter, flax oil
high protein only - chicken
high protein/high fat- eggs, hamburger patties, protein shakes (with or without flax and whipped cream)

Please, you all don't know how important this is to me. I've had a lot of problems in my life lately like my father dying and I've put on some pounds like a damn woman eating to help her depression, but I need to lose the weight quickly. I'm trying to lose the weight to raise my chances of getting into a relationship with a girl that I'm literally in love with, and getting in shape isn't just going to make me look better, it's probably going to make my already pathetic and depressing life better. Please, I really need this. If all I can consume is butter and drink water, I'll do it; however, I would prefer to keep the muscle mass that I do still have. Still, I'm willing to get out of ketosis while I still have some fat left on my body so as to more easily convert it to muscle than having nothing on me at all.